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Bernie Sanders' Tax Plan

bballcrook21
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1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Here is the summary of the tax plan

"According to the Tax Foundation"s Taxes and Growth Model, Senator Bernie Sanders"s tax plan would reduce the economy"s size by 9.5 percent in the long run. The plan would lead to 4.3 percent lower wages, an 18.6 percent smaller capital stock, and 6.0 million fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The smaller economy results from higher marginal tax rates on capital and labor income."

"Overall, the plan would increase federal revenue on a static basis by $13.6 trillion over the next 10 years. Most of the revenue gain is due to increased payroll tax revenue, which we project to raise approximately $8.3 trillion over the next decade. The changes to the individual income tax will raise an additional $4.9 trillion over the next decade. The remaining $350 billion would be raised through increased estate taxes and taxes on corporations."

"If we account for the economic impact of the plan, it would end up raising $9.8 trillion over the next decade. The smaller economy would reduce wages and investment income, which would narrow the revenue gain from the income tax changes to $2.8 trillion and the revenue gain from the payroll tax changes to $7.0 trillion."

http://taxfoundation.org...

Of course, what I find most ironic is that there will be a decrease in wage growth and quite a lot of unemployment, which is the opposite of what Bernie wants. We will become the new Greece, as Bernie will fill all the unemployment by making more government jobs, then we will start printing more money and go into recession. Do not let this moron with a degree in Journalism run this great nation to the ground.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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1/30/2016 5:51:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
"it (The Tax Foundation) has been described as pro-business and conservative-leaning and has ties to various US conservative groups" https://en.wikipedia.org...

If you really want to shoot a hole in Bernie's tax plan, and im your side on this one, you might wanna use a source that Bernie's supporters wont dismisses as biased to the right and then flatly dismiss any conclusions based off of their research
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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1/30/2016 7:20:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.

^ See this was what I was referring to in post 2
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.
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bballcrook21
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1/30/2016 7:38:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

+1

I don't understand why people shoot down credible sources just because of bias. Of course there will be bias in most sources, doesn't mean they aren't reliable.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.
donald.keller
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1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:02:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 7:20:55 PM, imabench wrote:
At 1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.

^ See this was what I was referring to in post 2

Personally, I would like to actually see the loopholes closed so that liberal billionaires can then criticize the plan.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 8:10:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?

I just read an article this morning that referenced GM that astonished me and made me angry at the same time.

https://www.good.is...

Video:

https://www.youtube.com...
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/30/2016 8:18:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?

+1
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/30/2016 8:19:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

+1

I don't thin the source fallacy is even a fallacy, but you are right with the rest.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:10:26 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?

I just read an article this morning that referenced GM that astonished me and made me angry at the same time.

https://www.good.is...

Why would that astonish you that a worker scanning for welding fractures on an assembly line makes 4 times as much as a worker scanning a can of beans?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:25:30 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Also, if we had 50 years of socializing Walmart where the workers used union powers to dictate company fiscal policies, just like they did to the auto industry and the public school system, then perhaps GM will have a chance to come back to fill the void.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:10:26 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?

I just read an article this morning that referenced GM that astonished me and made me angry at the same time.

https://www.good.is...

Why would that astonish you that a worker scanning for welding fractures on an assembly line makes 4 times as much as a worker scanning a can of beans?

It astonishes me that wages have substantially declined.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:29:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:10:26 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?

I just read an article this morning that referenced GM that astonished me and made me angry at the same time.

https://www.good.is...

Why would that astonish you that a worker scanning for welding fractures on an assembly line makes 4 times as much as a worker scanning a can of beans?

It astonishes me that wages have substantially declined.

You mean a walmart type bean scanner made that much money back in 1955?
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 8:30:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:29:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:10:26 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:07:15 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:02:36 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:54:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:42:57 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 7:34:05 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The source may be conservative in nature, but they are also incredibly intelligent, and have enough experience in studying the economy to warrent themselves a place as a strongly reliable source on the matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

When a foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest in keeping the system that benefits them, they lose credibility.

That's called the Source Fallacy. It may be funded by billionaires, that doesn't mean the study and methods aren't correct.

No such fallacy exists. Please don't make things up.

Do you deny that the government is bought by billionaires?

How else would they get Clinton and Obama support wall street banks and GM?

I just read an article this morning that referenced GM that astonished me and made me angry at the same time.

https://www.good.is...

Why would that astonish you that a worker scanning for welding fractures on an assembly line makes 4 times as much as a worker scanning a can of beans?

It astonishes me that wages have substantially declined.

You mean a walmart type bean scanner made that much money back in 1955?

Is that what I or the article said?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:32:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I mean Come on Stealspell, if you really want to destroy Walmart, GM has a proven formula how to do it based on pure Socialism where the workers run the factory. Promote and hire only Union workers, allow the workers the power and responsibility to make critical financial decisions for Walmart, and then watch it slowly die.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 8:34:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:32:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I mean Come on Stealspell, if you really want to destroy Walmart

Is that what I said?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/30/2016 8:37:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:32:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I mean Come on Stealspell, if you really want to destroy Walmart, GM has a proven formula how to do it based on pure Socialism where the workers run the factory. Promote and hire only Union workers, allow the workers the power and responsibility to make critical financial decisions for Walmart, and then watch it slowly die.

What a while oversimplification of a complex business.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/30/2016 8:38:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:37:33 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:32:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I mean Come on Stealspell, if you really want to destroy Walmart, GM has a proven formula how to do it based on pure Socialism where the workers run the factory. Promote and hire only Union workers, allow the workers the power and responsibility to make critical financial decisions for Walmart, and then watch it slowly die.

What a while oversimplification of a complex business.

*wild*
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/30/2016 8:38:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 8:37:33 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:32:36 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:28:17 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 8:19:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I mean Come on Stealspell, if you really want to destroy Walmart, GM has a proven formula how to do it based on pure Socialism where the workers run the factory. Promote and hire only Union workers, allow the workers the power and responsibility to make critical financial decisions for Walmart, and then watch it slowly die.

What an oversimplification of a complex business.

Thanks.
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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1/30/2016 11:42:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.

You can't instantly discredit what someone says just because there's bias.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 11:45:47 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 11:42:28 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.

You can't instantly discredit what someone says just because there's bias.

When there's conflict of interest, you most definitely can and should.
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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1/30/2016 11:46:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Here is the summary of the tax plan

"According to the Tax Foundation"s Taxes and Growth Model, Senator Bernie Sanders"s tax plan would reduce the economy"s size by 9.5 percent in the long run. The plan would lead to 4.3 percent lower wages, an 18.6 percent smaller capital stock, and 6.0 million fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The smaller economy results from higher marginal tax rates on capital and labor income."

"Overall, the plan would increase federal revenue on a static basis by $13.6 trillion over the next 10 years. Most of the revenue gain is due to increased payroll tax revenue, which we project to raise approximately $8.3 trillion over the next decade. The changes to the individual income tax will raise an additional $4.9 trillion over the next decade. The remaining $350 billion would be raised through increased estate taxes and taxes on corporations."

"If we account for the economic impact of the plan, it would end up raising $9.8 trillion over the next decade. The smaller economy would reduce wages and investment income, which would narrow the revenue gain from the income tax changes to $2.8 trillion and the revenue gain from the payroll tax changes to $7.0 trillion."

I used to support Bernie in the beginning, but over the last few months I've been reconsidering it. Will definitely have to look into this.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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1/30/2016 11:47:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 11:45:47 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 11:42:28 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.

You can't instantly discredit what someone says just because there's bias.

When there's conflict of interest, you most definitely can and should.

Actually you can't. The only way you can discredit something someone says is when you find mistakes in their methodology and means of finding their results. If you think the source is wrong then go ahead and tell us the mistakes they made.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/30/2016 11:48:39 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 11:47:35 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 1/30/2016 11:45:47 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 11:42:28 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 1/30/2016 6:48:40 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 1/30/2016 5:47:11 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Tax Foundation released an analysis of Bernie's tax plan, and it's quite an interesting read.

Tax Foundation is funded by billionaires who have a vested interest.

You can't instantly discredit what someone says just because there's bias.

When there's conflict of interest, you most definitely can and should.

Actually you can't. The only way you can discredit something someone says is when you find mistakes in their methodology and means of finding their results. If you think the source is wrong then go ahead and tell us the mistakes they made.

How arrogant of you.

Do you even know what conflict of interest means?
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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1/30/2016 11:49:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 11:48:39 PM, stealspell wrote::
How arrogant of you.

Do you even know what conflict of interest means?
Oh yeah, this isn't arrogant at all. But again, feel free to explain how any of this makes what they said wrong.

"If you think the source is wrong then go ahead and tell us the mistakes they made."
Still waiting for an answer.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation