Total Posts:10|Showing Posts:1-10
Jump to topic:

How to defeat North Korea

Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,086
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 2:14:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Okay, so...the tiny hermit kingdom which oppresses millions of Koreans and has held the world hostage for the past ten years needs to cease to exist. I think virtually everyone agrees to this.
The big question is, of course: how should the international community go about doing this? We could, of course, simply invade Korea, but:
1. China
2. Millions of North Koreans and tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) of UN/US coalition troops would die during the invasion.
3. Because they're so utterly brainwashed, after they were conquered the North Koreans would struggle violently against the West and South Korea for decades. Think Iraq times 10.
4. China
5. China

So that isn't such a great option. How, then, do we defeat North Korea? I've come up with a plan:

-Continue the ongoing cross-border broadcasts, fly planes and drones over North Korea dropping millions of propaganda leaflets and do this everyday. Convince every nation we can to drop diplomatic ties with North Korea and to refuse to recognize the DPRK as a sovereign state. Declare that the U.S. will accept nothing less than full North Korean cooperation and start spouting out some rhetoric similar to Bush's pre-Invasion of Iraq rhetoric.
-Build a massive missile defense network in South Korea and Japan, double the number of US troops stationed there, and station 2 U.S. aircraft carriers within striking distance of North Korea. Also, offer a military sale of F-35s and used Los Angeles class nuclear submarines as well as a few THAADs to Taiwan. By this point China will be protesting very strongly, and the U.S. will be in a position to have China either abandon North Korea in exchange for having this network removed, the additional U.S. troops sent home, and the arms deal with Taiwan cancelled or convince Kim Jong Un to accept a nuclear deal in exchange for the aforementioned stuff. Even if China agrees to no such thing, North Korea will become acutely aware that its nuclear weapons program is pretty much useless now.
-At this point we offer to give North Korea its international recognition back, billions in aid, a halt to all the propaganda efforts, a formal end to the Korean War, and a promise to not invade North Korea in exchange for a complete and utter halt of North Korea's nuclear program and the dismantling of its existing nuclear and ballistic missile arsenal.

-As part of the concessions to North Korea, broker a work program between North and South Korea. Allow tens of thousands of young men each year to go spend a year or two in the South for work. Those with families will be able to send money back North and the U.S. will allow for some other nations to engage in limited amounts of trade with North Korea so that they can make some use of this money and...you know, not starve so much (giving the North an incentive to continue this program). Worse case scenario: this money goes to the North Korean government which they'd spend on weapons. However, the desired result (that tens of thousands of young North Koreans would realize how great things are in the South, be exposed to democracy, and then return home) would be achieved either way. Also, allow for North Korean students to attend South Korean universities, which will help the North escape its technological and scientific rut. However, these students will be exposed to the truth of democracy and how good things are in the South.
-Support underground democracy efforts and underground churches within North Korea. That is, "the resistance". Use South Korea as a channel for smuggling tons of western literature, newspapers, and movies, as well as Bibles into the hermit kingdom. Have spies extensively document Kim Jong Un's extravagant lifestyle and the state's rampant corruption as well as well as what goes on in North Korean concentration camps and secretly let the North Korean people hear about all of it. Deny all involvement, of course.
-Finally, after decades have passed and the hearts of the people have been turned towards democracy and against the regime, either support an internal uprising against the state or renege on your promise to not invade North Korea (by this point it's likely that China will have dropped their support for North Korea and they can be offered a dominant role in the occupation if they refuse to budge).
Thoughts?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
imabench
Posts: 21,230
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 2:26:08 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:14:50 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

-Continue the ongoing cross-border broadcasts, fly planes and drones over North Korea dropping millions of propaganda leaflets and do this everyday. Convince every nation we can to drop diplomatic ties with North Korea and to refuse to recognize the DPRK as a sovereign state. Declare that the U.S. will accept nothing less than full North Korean cooperation and start spouting out some rhetoric similar to Bush's pre-Invasion of Iraq rhetoric.

So far that seems like it would only escalate things and bring us to the brink of nuclear war breaking out.....

-Build a massive missile defense network in South Korea and Japan, double the number of US troops stationed there, and station 2 U.S. aircraft carriers within striking distance of North Korea. Also, offer a military sale of F-35s and used Los Angeles class nuclear submarines as well as a few THAADs to Taiwan. By this point China will be protesting very strongly, and the U.S. will be in a position to have China either abandon North Korea in exchange for having this network removed, the additional U.S. troops sent home, and the arms deal with Taiwan cancelled or convince Kim Jong Un to accept a nuclear deal in exchange for the aforementioned stuff. Even if China agrees to no such thing,

North Korea will become acutely aware that its nuclear weapons program is pretty much useless now.

All you need to do that is the missile system, you dont even need any of that other stuff which is just for show

-At this point we offer to give North Korea its international recognition back, billions in aid, a halt to all the propaganda efforts, a formal end to the Korean War, and a promise to not invade North Korea in exchange for a complete and utter halt of North Korea's nuclear program and the dismantling of its existing nuclear and ballistic missile arsenal.

Which they will probably refuse considering you just spent the last couple of months building up for a break out of war.... If a nation about to wipe you out then starts offering to lay off if you weaken yourself by dismantling nukes, most people/dictators will call bs and stick to their guns

-As part of the concessions to North Korea, broker a work program between North and South Korea. Allow tens of thousands of young men each year to go spend a year or two in the South for work.

Which they would refuse to abide by since in the South they would not be able to censor out the rest of the world like they have been doing for the past century.

Those with families will be able to send money back North and the U.S. will allow for some other nations to engage in limited amounts of trade with North Korea so that they can make some use of this money and...you know, not starve so much (giving the North an incentive to continue this program). Worse case scenario: this money goes to the North Korean government which they'd spend on weapons. However, the desired result (that tens of thousands of young North Koreans would realize how great things are in the South, be exposed to democracy, and then return home) would be achieved either way. Also, allow for North Korean students to attend South Korean universities, which will help the North escape its technological and scientific rut. However, these students will be exposed to the truth of democracy and how good things are in the South.

Which is exactly why North Korea would refuse to allow this.

-Support underground democracy efforts and underground churches within North Korea. That is, "the resistance".

Kinda further plays into the previous part about how saying you wont invade while trying to destabalize the regime indicates you are just trying to weaken them before invading anyways.....

Use South Korea as a channel for smuggling tons of western literature, newspapers, and movies, as well as Bibles into the hermit kingdom. Have spies extensively document Kim Jong Un's extravagant lifestyle and the state's rampant corruption as well as well as what goes on in North Korean concentration camps and secretly let the North Korean people hear about all of it.

Which is totally unfeasible and a pipe dream.....

-Finally, after decades have passed and the hearts of the people have been turned towards democracy and against the regime, either support an internal uprising against the state or renege on your promise to not invade North Korea (by this point it's likely that China will have dropped their support for North Korea and they can be offered a dominant role in the occupation if they refuse to budge).
Thoughts?

I rate 1/10

The only good idea in this whole thing is the missile defense network which will put North Korea's nuclear capabilities on ice.... If North Korea cant fire nukes at anyone, then youve effectively nullified them as an international threat to world peace, and now just have to lobby them to ease up on Civil Rights issues, which can be done with lifting sanctions or some other means
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 2:49:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:14:50 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

-As part of the concessions to North Korea, broker a work program between North and South Korea. Allow tens of thousands of young men each year to go spend a year or two in the South for work. Those with families will be able to send money back North and the U.S. will allow for some other nations to engage in limited amounts of trade with North Korea so that they can make some use of this money and...you know, not starve so much (giving the North an incentive to continue this program). Worse case scenario: this money goes to the North Korean government which they'd spend on weapons. However, the desired result (that tens of thousands of young North Koreans would realize how great things are in the South, be exposed to democracy, and then return home) would be achieved either way. Also, allow for North Korean students to attend South Korean universities, which will help the North escape its technological and scientific rut. However, these students will be exposed to the truth of democracy and how good things are in the South.
-Support underground democracy efforts and underground churches within North Korea. That is, "the resistance". Use South Korea as a channel for smuggling tons of western literature, newspapers, and movies, as well as Bibles into the hermit kingdom. Have spies extensively document Kim Jong Un's extravagant lifestyle and the state's rampant corruption as well as well as what goes on in North Korean concentration camps and secretly let the North Korean people hear about all of it. Deny all involvement, of course.

The North would definitely not consent to that. A vital part of the Kim regime's ability to maintain power is it's isolation. NK started exchanging workers with the south, migrants may return to their country with increasing dissent to the regime. Simply put it, the workers would be disillusioned with propaganda portraying NK as a communist paradise upon culture shock with Seoul. It'd be very similar to Gorbachev's Glasnot policy. NK definitely has the foresight to see that coming.
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 2:55:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
North Korea is only true Korea and will defeat imperialist scum. Many thanks to glorious leader Kim Jung Un
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 3:03:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:55:31 AM, Wylted wrote:
North Korea is only true Korea and will defeat imperialist scum. Many thanks to glorious leader Kim Jung Un

+1
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 9:00:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:14:50 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Okay, so...the tiny hermit kingdom which oppresses millions of Koreans and has held the world hostage for the past ten years needs to cease to exist. I think virtually everyone agrees to this.
The big question is, of course: how should the international community go about doing this? We could, of course, simply invade Korea, but:
1. China
2. Millions of North Koreans and tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) of UN/US coalition troops would die during the invasion.
3. Because they're so utterly brainwashed, after they were conquered the North Koreans would struggle violently against the West and South Korea for decades. Think Iraq times 10.
4. China
5. China

So that isn't such a great option. How, then, do we defeat North Korea? I've come up with a plan:

-Continue the ongoing cross-border broadcasts, fly planes and drones over North Korea dropping millions of propaganda leaflets and do this everyday. Convince every nation we can to drop diplomatic ties with North Korea and to refuse to recognize the DPRK as a sovereign state. Declare that the U.S. will accept nothing less than full North Korean cooperation and start spouting out some rhetoric similar to Bush's pre-Invasion of Iraq rhetoric.
-Build a massive missile defense network in South Korea and Japan, double the number of US troops stationed there, and station 2 U.S. aircraft carriers within striking distance of North Korea. Also, offer a military sale of F-35s and used Los Angeles class nuclear submarines as well as a few THAADs to Taiwan. By this point China will be protesting very strongly, and the U.S. will be in a position to have China either abandon North Korea in exchange for having this network removed, the additional U.S. troops sent home, and the arms deal with Taiwan cancelled or convince Kim Jong Un to accept a nuclear deal in exchange for the aforementioned stuff. Even if China agrees to no such thing, North Korea will become acutely aware that its nuclear weapons program is pretty much useless now.
-At this point we offer to give North Korea its international recognition back, billions in aid, a halt to all the propaganda efforts, a formal end to the Korean War, and a promise to not invade North Korea in exchange for a complete and utter halt of North Korea's nuclear program and the dismantling of its existing nuclear and ballistic missile arsenal.

-As part of the concessions to North Korea, broker a work program between North and South Korea. Allow tens of thousands of young men each year to go spend a year or two in the South for work. Those with families will be able to send money back North and the U.S. will allow for some other nations to engage in limited amounts of trade with North Korea so that they can make some use of this money and...you know, not starve so much (giving the North an incentive to continue this program). Worse case scenario: this money goes to the North Korean government which they'd spend on weapons. However, the desired result (that tens of thousands of young North Koreans would realize how great things are in the South, be exposed to democracy, and then return home) would be achieved either way. Also, allow for North Korean students to attend South Korean universities, which will help the North escape its technological and scientific rut. However, these students will be exposed to the truth of democracy and how good things are in the South.
-Support underground democracy efforts and underground churches within North Korea. That is, "the resistance". Use South Korea as a channel for smuggling tons of western literature, newspapers, and movies, as well as Bibles into the hermit kingdom. Have spies extensively document Kim Jong Un's extravagant lifestyle and the state's rampant corruption as well as well as what goes on in North Korean concentration camps and secretly let the North Korean people hear about all of it. Deny all involvement, of course.
-Finally, after decades have passed and the hearts of the people have been turned towards democracy and against the regime, either support an internal uprising against the state or renege on your promise to not invade North Korea (by this point it's likely that China will have dropped their support for North Korea and they can be offered a dominant role in the occupation if they refuse to budge).
Thoughts?

That's what anonymous bombs and nukes are for. Who bombed them!?!? It's a mystery...la dee da
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 9:01:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:55:31 AM, Wylted wrote:
North Korea is only true Korea and will defeat imperialist scum. Many thanks to glorious leader Kim Jung Un

Kim says he created the color green. We could show him who invented the b2
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 9:06:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Assassinate Kim, drop pro democracy propaganda everywhere. Instill a masked fake Kim who will rule by a more democratic system while fake Kim propogates democracy, denies his "godness", and institutes the new Korea, a democratic Korea, and he steps down in order for the first N. Korean election to take place. I know. I have a gift.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 9:09:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 9:06:17 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Assassinate Kim, drop pro democracy propaganda everywhere. Instill a masked fake Kim who will rule by a more democratic system while fake Kim propogates democracy, denies his "godness", and institutes the new Korea, a democratic Korea, and he steps down in order for the first N. Korean election to take place. I know. I have a gift.

Fvck you. Kim Jung is a God
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/3/2016 9:53:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 9:09:06 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/3/2016 9:06:17 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Assassinate Kim, drop pro democracy propaganda everywhere. Instill a masked fake Kim who will rule by a more democratic system while fake Kim propogates democracy, denies his "godness", and institutes the new Korea, a democratic Korea, and he steps down in order for the first N. Korean election to take place. I know. I have a gift.

Fvck you. Kim Jung is a God

Not to people who have not lived in a box.

Nevertheless, if he is a god, he should have no problem deflecting and destroying any army that comes against him including nukes, bombs, missiles, etc. Of course he is no more a god than I am, so he stockpiles weapons and emasses an army rather thanusing his god powers.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...