Total Posts:59|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is Capitalism falling?

mc9
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 3:04:01 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

We have a mix of free market capitalism and state subsidized industries (state controlled economy...think centralized state run economy like the soviets had.)
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?
stealspell
Posts: 980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 3:26:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

A purely capitalistic economy would converge towards a monopoly and wage slavery. Under a purely capitalistic economy one corporation would dominate every aspect of the economy. The idea that the consumer would "regulate" prices and such is a myth.
mc9
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 3:28:51 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

I didn't say there was a purely capitalist economy
mc9
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 3:29:39 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:04:01 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

We have a mix of free market capitalism and state subsidized industries (state controlled economy...think centralized state run economy like the soviets had.)

I know
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 3:38:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:29:39 AM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:04:01 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

We have a mix of free market capitalism and state subsidized industries (state controlled economy...think centralized state run economy like the soviets had.)

I know

That video is a garbage video blaming capitalism for why we can't just simply choose to live like we did in the good ole days before the invention of plastic.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 4:12:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

The video also lamented the fact that the majority of American economy is not run by the government. Lenin could have practically written the script for this video.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 4:14:05 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:26:20 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

A purely capitalistic economy would converge towards a monopoly and wage slavery. Under a purely capitalistic economy one corporation would dominate every aspect of the economy. The idea that the consumer would "regulate" prices and such is a myth.

That is just about retarded.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 4:41:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 4:14:05 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:26:20 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

A purely capitalistic economy would converge towards a monopoly and wage slavery. Under a purely capitalistic economy one corporation would dominate every aspect of the economy. The idea that the consumer would "regulate" prices and such is a myth.

That is just about retarded.

I know. Not even the government can buy up all the land and resources under imminent domain and the full force of the military without people resisting. What makes anyone think a person WITHOUT an army could possibly have an easier time forcing people to give up all their resources?
stealspell
Posts: 980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 5:29:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 4:14:05 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:26:20 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

A purely capitalistic economy would converge towards a monopoly and wage slavery. Under a purely capitalistic economy one corporation would dominate every aspect of the economy. The idea that the consumer would "regulate" prices and such is a myth.

That is just about retarded.

Said the uneducated.
FactsKillSocialism
Posts: 1
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 11:14:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

When you have an economic system run by Corporations and Government then you no longer have a Capitalistic society. Capitalism is solely based upon a free market trading system which your large corporations eliminate while creating large monopolies. Sure the definition of a monopoly is 1 entity owning most or all but I dare you to open up a phone company and compete with Verizon and AT&T as that's not happening. With Government involvement and determining essentially our economic structure we've been instituting some fundamental aspects of Socialism.

Here's a great article which discusses the inequities of Socialism and talks about the success one of the biggest Capitalist countries in the world Switzerland http://thefederalist.com...
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 6:00:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
No. What's happening is that people are being less and less content with the same system that they used to be happy with. So the idea that capitalism is failing has become widespread.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 6:36:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 6:00:32 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
No. What's happening is that people are being less and less content with the same system that they used to be happy with. So the idea that capitalism is failing has become widespread.

Communism is always popular, at first; until the government is unable to remove its own bad economic policies. It's very easy for the government to blame its problems of its failure to control the economy effectively on Wall street; even as they are, at the same time, pumping a flood of tax dollars to keep that bandaid afloat to cover the failure of state controlled economic policies.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
mc9
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 7:02:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.

I don't know if this is directed toward me but look closely at my first post.

And what is the difference between corporatism and capitalism?
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 7:03:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:02:19 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.

I don't know if this is directed toward me but look closely at my first post.

And what is the difference between corporatism and capitalism?

Free market Capitalism is when government doesn't intercede to fail or help businesses. Corporatism is when our government is bought out by large corporations that lobby for more regulations to destroy competition or unfair tax breaks that only they receive.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
mc9
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 7:03:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:03:13 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:02:19 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.

I don't know if this is directed toward me but look closely at my first post.

And what is the difference between corporatism and capitalism?

Free market Capitalism is when government doesn't intercede to fail or help businesses. Corporatism is when our government is bought out by large corporations that lobby for more regulations to destroy competition or unfair tax breaks that only they receive.

I see
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 7:04:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:03:42 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:03:13 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:02:19 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.

I don't know if this is directed toward me but look closely at my first post.

And what is the difference between corporatism and capitalism?

Free market Capitalism is when government doesn't intercede to fail or help businesses. Corporatism is when our government is bought out by large corporations that lobby for more regulations to destroy competition or unfair tax breaks that only they receive.

I see

That's the funny thing though. Most rich men are Democrats, because they WANT more regulations. They can afford these regulatory measures, but the smaller businesses that they compete with cannot, meaning that these small to medium sized corporations go out of business. It's an effective way of drying up the market.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
mc9
Posts: 1,034
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 7:05:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:04:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:03:42 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:03:13 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:02:19 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.

I don't know if this is directed toward me but look closely at my first post.

And what is the difference between corporatism and capitalism?

Free market Capitalism is when government doesn't intercede to fail or help businesses. Corporatism is when our government is bought out by large corporations that lobby for more regulations to destroy competition or unfair tax breaks that only they receive.

I see

That's the funny thing though. Most rich men are Democrats, because they WANT more regulations. They can afford these regulatory measures, but the smaller businesses that they compete with cannot, meaning that these small to medium sized corporations go out of business. It's an effective way of drying up the market.

Hmm I never though of it that way, interesting.
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 11:35:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:05:38 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:04:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:03:42 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:03:13 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:02:19 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:00:50 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

+1

I hate when people say we live in a Capitalist society, and that all our problems are attuned to Capitalism. We live in corporatism and a somewhat mixed economy.

I don't know if this is directed toward me but look closely at my first post.

And what is the difference between corporatism and capitalism?

Free market Capitalism is when government doesn't intercede to fail or help businesses. Corporatism is when our government is bought out by large corporations that lobby for more regulations to destroy competition or unfair tax breaks that only they receive.

I see

That's the funny thing though. Most rich men are Democrats, because they WANT more regulations. They can afford these regulatory measures, but the smaller businesses that they compete with cannot, meaning that these small to medium sized corporations go out of business. It's an effective way of drying up the market.

Hmm I never though of it that way, interesting.

https://www.youtube.com...
This should help your understanding out.
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 5:52:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

Yes our economy is mixed but we are much much much more capitalist than socialist.

I'm not sure a pure free market would be sustainable. It might be that it would outright collapse due to social unrest or market instabilities. Or we might just say that the resolution of market crises would be too painful for a pure free market to be desirable. Or we might just say that free markets are value-blind to things like justice and are bad at solving collective action problems.

My view is that capitalist markets are incredibly valuable, they are resilient but part of that resilience is that ability to self-regulate, which includes government oversight. The FDIC is a good think for the US economy, so are social safety nets like social security and certain forms of welfare. You don't need a pure free market to have a capitalist system.

There is also truth to what you say, that often times interest groups are better served by the carrots and sticks of US economic policy, but this is an inefficiency I think is a) worth the cost and b) something that can be improved on. It's easy to focus on the bad regulation and forget about things like building codes and regulation on the use of lead, which are crucial to public safety.

So to the point of OP, the success of the US economy is much more attributable to open markets and private property laws . Capitalism isn't failing, it often goes through crisis and reform, that is a strength not a weakness.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 6:17:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 5:52:49 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

Yes our economy is mixed but we are much much much more capitalist than socialist.

I'm not sure a pure free market would be sustainable. It might be that it would outright collapse due to social unrest or market instabilities. Or we might just say that the resolution of market crises would be too painful for a pure free market to be desirable. Or we might just say that free markets are value-blind to things like justice and are bad at solving collective action problems.

My view is that capitalist markets are incredibly valuable, they are resilient but part of that resilience is that ability to self-regulate, which includes government oversight. The FDIC is a good think for the US economy, so are social safety nets like social security and certain forms of welfare. You don't need a pure free market to have a capitalist system.

There is also truth to what you say, that often times interest groups are better served by the carrots and sticks of US economic policy, but this is an inefficiency I think is a) worth the cost and b) something that can be improved on. It's easy to focus on the bad regulation and forget about things like building codes and regulation on the use of lead, which are crucial to public safety.

So to the point of OP, the success of the US economy is much more attributable to open markets and private property laws . Capitalism isn't failing, it often goes through crisis and reform, that is a strength not a weakness.

The spotlight on imminent domain recently shows exactly why it's necessary to have a mix.
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 6:35:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 6:17:29 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/7/2016 5:52:49 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

Yes our economy is mixed but we are much much much more capitalist than socialist.

I'm not sure a pure free market would be sustainable. It might be that it would outright collapse due to social unrest or market instabilities. Or we might just say that the resolution of market crises would be too painful for a pure free market to be desirable. Or we might just say that free markets are value-blind to things like justice and are bad at solving collective action problems.

My view is that capitalist markets are incredibly valuable, they are resilient but part of that resilience is that ability to self-regulate, which includes government oversight. The FDIC is a good think for the US economy, so are social safety nets like social security and certain forms of welfare. You don't need a pure free market to have a capitalist system.

There is also truth to what you say, that often times interest groups are better served by the carrots and sticks of US economic policy, but this is an inefficiency I think is a) worth the cost and b) something that can be improved on. It's easy to focus on the bad regulation and forget about things like building codes and regulation on the use of lead, which are crucial to public safety.

So to the point of OP, the success of the US economy is much more attributable to open markets and private property laws . Capitalism isn't failing, it often goes through crisis and reform, that is a strength not a weakness.

The spotlight on imminent domain recently shows exactly why it's necessary to have a mix.

Yeah I think eminent domain is a good example of how free markets generally can't solve collective action problems.

It's also a good example of how special interest groups can abuse government power.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 6:49:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:26:20 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

A purely capitalistic economy would converge towards a monopoly and wage slavery. Under a purely capitalistic economy one corporation would dominate every aspect of the economy. The idea that the consumer would "regulate" prices and such is a myth.

Explain to me how a monopoly is a process of a free market. I would argue that monopoly and free market are antonyms, so they cannot both exist in a given state.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 6:50:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:38:29 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:29:39 AM, mc9 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:04:01 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

We have a mix of free market capitalism and state subsidized industries (state controlled economy...think centralized state run economy like the soviets had.)

I know

That video is a garbage video blaming capitalism for why we can't just simply choose to live like we did in the good ole days before the invention of plastic.

+1
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 6:50:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 4:14:05 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:26:20 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:07:22 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

What evidence do you have of a purely capitalistic economy failing?

A purely capitalistic economy would converge towards a monopoly and wage slavery. Under a purely capitalistic economy one corporation would dominate every aspect of the economy. The idea that the consumer would "regulate" prices and such is a myth.

That is just about retarded.

He does this a lot.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 7:01:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:16:00 AM, Contra wrote:
The United States has a mixed economy right now, so its failure can't be attributed to capitalism. We have an economy that is based on private markets and ownership of production, yes. But the private sector is also under duress, with a heavy element of redistribution for the elderly, an incorrigible web of programs that are supposed to be a safety-net, and a flurry of spending and regulations that are promulgated to benefit rent-seeking interest groups that end of harming the aggregate economy. Not a free market, not at all.

So Socialism...
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,940
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 7:03:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:44:42 AM, mc9 wrote:
So we know the story, the extreme communism of the Soviet Union couldn't last.
But is the same thing happening with capitalism? Maybe the only reason it didn't collapse so fast was the socialism in it.

Here is a video about the corruption and destruction capitalism is causing, I am aware it is kind of biased but here it is https://m.youtube.com...

This is solely based on the US. If capitalism really was the problem then the same thing would be happening all over the world to capitalist countries and societies.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy