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Power and Truth

YYW
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2/7/2016 12:23:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I place this in the politics section because it's highly political, but also academic; it's based on the years of graduate work I did wherein I got "up close and personal" with some people who had some very negative things to say about social science and psychology, mostly people who were in the philosophy department. If you're schooled in this sort of thing, you'll recognize that I'm drawing heavily from Foucault and Nietzsche; but if you're not, you should be able to follow it anyway.

I'm trying to keep this really light on jargon... but there are some concepts I want to introduce you guys to:

1. "Regime of Truth"

A regime of truth is an entire field of knowledge; the techniques associated with producing that knowledge (i.e. research, sometimes empirical, sometimes not), and verifying/recording it (i.e. the publication process), which form the basis of a set of ideas that serve as the groundwork to exercise power over others. (Psychology has a discrete and unique regime of truth to it, for example. So does political science, sociology, etc.) All of these parts, and some others, but mainly these form a system of producing what counts for "the truth." The "regime" is the system, and the structure of that system; and the "truth" is the ideas that that system produces.

These regimes have certain properties: Regimes are contained within societies, and all societies have regimes of truth, and regimes may be overlapping; laterally and hierarchally. The mechanisms of how those systems work define the strictures of truth and falsity; meaning, quite simply, the mechanisms define the range of cognizable discourse. Anything outside the range of cognizable discourse is, by definition, unthinkable. These systems have normative (not objective) rules; meaning that what you can talk about is constrained by consistency with that set of values. And, of course, glory or infamy may be obtained by operation and production within the structure, as surely as it can be obtained within the system by defying the system. Truth, then, is the system's product, and and the function of that system's operation.

2. Power/Knowledge

Power/knowledge is how both power and knowledge are connected to each other; knowledge grounds power and power produces knowledge; the more power there is, the more authoritative the concept of truth. But now, power/knowledge is diffuse though it functions in very specific ways. Power/knowledge exists in every sphere of discourse, and it defines the scope of what is cognizable discourse is. It is at once the power to define what is right and wrong, and pronounce those who deviate from that standard.

Power/knowledge's application exists, for example, in the DSM, as it serves the basis of a psychologist's evaluation of others, whose behavior may exhibit certain traits that the psychologist identifies as consistent with the DSM's prescriptive characterizations of "disorders." Power/knowledge is the capacity that truth as it is defined by those who define it empowers those with such capacity to exercise. It is the power to label, categorize, diagnose, and prescribe what deviance from the norm is; and then force that deviance into submission.

3. Discipline

Discipline is what results on subjects of power being exercised; if exercised power is the source of social conformity, discipline is that conformity enforced. Disiplinary power exists through bureaucracies and administrations; through surveillance and observation;and manifests through psychology, criminology, education and the like.

Discipline is the result of making the choice not to challenge power's strictures; submission to and subordination to systems of control that are constructed on the basis of power/knowledge. Discipline may come about as a result of positive desires, or explicit or implicit threats of castigation; it's implications level on both on a micro and a macro scale.

More to come, later.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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2/7/2016 12:31:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
In this thread, I'm going to talk about what psychology and the social sciences are, and how they work. I'm going to explain how in the present, what counts for "truth" is constrained by quasi-theological narratives, mostly perpetuated by race feminists and those who desire to avoid being called racists by them; and I'm going to talk about postmodernism, which laid the foundation for academia's plunge into anti-rationality.

My time and will to continue providing, I'm going to at some point discus what it is about psychology that makes it, especially in its current scheme, so alluring to psychopaths; and what that (ironically) says about both psychology, and psychopathy.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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2/7/2016 1:25:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 12:48:54 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Oh, yay, another anti-humanities and social sciences rant.

http://static2.fjcdn.com...
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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2/7/2016 1:27:28 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 12:48:54 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Oh, yay, another anti-humanities and social sciences rant.
Live Long and Prosper

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YYW
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2/7/2016 1:32:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The reality is that this is not an outright rejection of all psychology, social science, and the humanities.... this is only a rejection of the modes of discourse that have pervaded those departments since the mid 1990s.

There is tremendous value, at least, in the humanities. The problem is that they have been bastardized by postmodern values and ideologies (e.g. race feminism).
Tsar of DDO
lamerde
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2/7/2016 1:36:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 12:48:54 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Oh, yay, another anti-humanities and social sciences rant.

Thanks for the summary lol
Why I ignore YYW:
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http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
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2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.
EndarkenedRationalist
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2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.
Wylted
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2/7/2016 2:09:55 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.

Useful to just about every job? How does microaggression theory help doctors to perform surgery? For electricians to wire your house? For that chinese kid make 25 cents a day to make your shoes? That stuff has no practical purpose.
EndarkenedRationalist
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2/7/2016 2:14:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:09:55 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.

Useful to just about every job? How does microaggression theory help doctors to perform surgery? For electricians to wire your house? For that chinese kid make 25 cents a day to make your shoes? That stuff has no practical purpose.

No one said anything about micro aggression theory which, contrary to popular belief, is not what academics teach.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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2/7/2016 2:54:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Social sciences and psychology aren't all sh!t, but they're definitely waaaaay on the bottom of the 'analytical and critical thinking' spectrum. Part of this is structural; the ethical and practical considerations make it incredibly difficult to experiment within these fields, but there IS a dearth of intellectual standards. I've found studies published in the 'soft sciences' field which never would have seen the light of day in, for example, an engineering or biology journal. There are some great psychology and sociology studies out there; the problem isn't that they don't publish anything good. It's that they don't curb enough flawed studies from being published.

Any science degree (or even liberal arts) can give you those skills. If you like psychology/social sciences, and have a keen critical mind, then go into that field. You'll probably shine in a field crowded by students looking for an easier degree (I was very disappointed to watch my college take a rigorous psychology department and vitiate the coursework because they had complaints that it was 'too hard'.)
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
EndarkenedRationalist
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2/7/2016 2:56:55 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:54:09 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Social sciences and psychology aren't all sh!t, but they're definitely waaaaay on the bottom of the 'analytical and critical thinking' spectrum. Part of this is structural; the ethical and practical considerations make it incredibly difficult to experiment within these fields, but there IS a dearth of intellectual standards. I've found studies published in the 'soft sciences' field which never would have seen the light of day in, for example, an engineering or biology journal. There are some great psychology and sociology studies out there; the problem isn't that they don't publish anything good. It's that they don't curb enough flawed studies from being published.

Humanities and the social sciences do more for analytical and critical thinking that STEM do. STEM is more about problem-solving, spatial awareness, etc. I won't deny there are flawed studies out there, but those exist in any and every field.

Any science degree (or even liberal arts) can give you those skills. If you like psychology/social sciences, and have a keen critical mind, then go into that field. You'll probably shine in a field crowded by students looking for an easier degree (I was very disappointed to watch my college take a rigorous psychology department and vitiate the coursework because they had complaints that it was 'too hard'.)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/7/2016 3:10:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.

You have to taunt. Because if you drbated these things it would crush your world view
popculturepooka
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2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:10:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.

You have to taunt. Because if you drbated these things it would crush your world view

Lmao.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:54:09 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Social sciences and psychology aren't all sh!t, but they're definitely waaaaay on the bottom of the 'analytical and critical thinking' spectrum.

- Exactly. What I hate most about soft sciences is the overestimation & undue authority they are given due to sharing a similar designation with serious sciences. Also, they suffer a serious lack of wisdom.
Current Debates:

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Wylted
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2/7/2016 3:13:51 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:10:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.

You have to taunt. Because if you drbated these things it would crush your world view

Lmao.

Thanks for proving my point.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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2/7/2016 3:14:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:54:09 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:20 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

lol, he hasn't even attacked the humanities or social sciences yet, so his points can't be unassailable because they don't exist. I'm just tired of everyone $hitting on the only field of study to foster creativity, analytical and critical thinking, strong writing skills - useful to just about every job - and diversity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Social sciences and psychology aren't all sh!t, but they're definitely waaaaay on the bottom of the 'analytical and critical thinking' spectrum.

- Exactly. What I hate most about soft sciences is the overestimation & undue authority they are given due to sharing a similar designation with serious sciences. Also, they suffer a serious lack of wisdom.

I 100% agree.
Tsar of DDO
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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2/7/2016 3:15:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:13:51 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:10:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.

You have to taunt. Because if you drbated these things it would crush your world view

Lmao.

Thanks for proving my point.

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/7/2016 3:17:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:15:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:13:51 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:10:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.

You have to taunt. Because if you drbated these things it would crush your world view

Lmao.

Thanks for proving my point.

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Lol, you just can't resist showing your stupidity. It's almost as if you take pride in your stupidity. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a colored boy.
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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2/7/2016 3:20:11 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:17:18 AM, Wylted wrote:

Lol, you just can't resist showing your stupidity. It's almost as if you take pride in your stupidity. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a colored boy.

lmao
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
popculturepooka
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2/7/2016 3:21:03 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:17:18 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:15:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:13:51 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:12:13 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:10:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:00:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:59:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can be dismissive of his rants all you want on this subject, but he hits the nail on the head. I actually think part of the dismissiveness is because these points are so unassailable.

Lmao.

You have to taunt. Because if you drbated these things it would crush your world view

Lmao.

Thanks for proving my point.

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Lol, you just can't resist showing your stupidity. It's almost as if you take pride in your stupidity. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a colored boy.

Roooooooooooooofffffffffffffffffffffffffllllllllllllllllllllllllllllmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooooooooooooo
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/7/2016 3:21:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:20:11 AM, lamerde wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:17:18 AM, Wylted wrote:

Lol, you just can't resist showing your stupidity. It's almost as if you take pride in your stupidity. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a colored boy.

lmao

I forgot to start that with "not to be racist but.. .."
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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2/7/2016 3:49:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:13:47 AM, lamerde wrote:
https://twitter.com...

Only a social science student would use anecdotal evidence in the form of a tweet as evidence of social science's legitimacy as a science.

haha
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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2/7/2016 3:50:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
We'll get into the thick of this later on.... it should make for an interesting discussion, given the level of controversy this thread has already caused.
Tsar of DDO
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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2/7/2016 3:56:03 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:49:56 AM, YYW wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:13:47 AM, lamerde wrote:
https://twitter.com...

Only a social science student would use anecdotal evidence in the form of a tweet as evidence of social science's legitimacy as a science.

haha

-____-

Alright, I think I'm going to take everyone's advice and just go back to ignoring you. I'm announcing it, because my guess is that you will continue to talk to me and about me, and increase your animosity in an attempt to get a rise out of me. At the end of the day, you get much more out of talking to me than I get out of talking to a failed student who claims to attend a university but doesn't have access to online journals. Bai!
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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2/7/2016 3:57:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
YYW's coalition consists of a high school drop out, a middle-aged parrot, and a bunch of angry teenagers. Yawn.
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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2/7/2016 3:57:58 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:56:03 AM, lamerde wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:49:56 AM, YYW wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:13:47 AM, lamerde wrote:
https://twitter.com...

Only a social science student would use anecdotal evidence in the form of a tweet as evidence of social science's legitimacy as a science.

haha

-____-

Alright, I think I'm going to take everyone's advice and just go back to ignoring you. I'm announcing it, because my guess is that you will continue to talk to me and about me, and increase your animosity in an attempt to get a rise out of me. At the end of the day, you get much more out of talking to me than I get out of talking to a failed student who claims to attend a university but doesn't have access to online journals. Bai!

What do you think I gain from talking to you?

There are presumably only three people who have given you that advice, though... your three friends on the site.
Tsar of DDO