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Trump vs. Sanders

ConnorSween16
Posts: 34
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2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.
ConnorSween16
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
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2/11/2016 3:09:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Confirmation bias?
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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beng100
Posts: 1,055
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2/11/2016 3:45:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM, ConnorSween16 wrote:
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.

Bernie Sanders is an awful candidate for the democrats as he is far too far to the left to attract centrist voters in a presidential election. As someone with generally centre right political views I also believe his policies would be disastrous for the USA and even as a UK citizen I would be concerned about the effects of his election both economically and in terms of military competence. His election would be greeted with delight by Russia, China, north Korea and other rivals/ enemies of the USA.

Donald Trump is an interesting candidate. His personal success would make him unique in the fact he is someone who has succeeded in the world of business and economics not just talked and theorized about it before coming to power. I would expect him to be very successful in terms of economic policy. Foreign policy would possibly be a concern as his lack of experience may see him drawn into conflicts that should be avoided although he will likely intimidate rival countries and prove a strong leader. He will be excellent at dealing with immigration and could be an appealing candidate among the centrist voters. I think he is very clever and Will reduce the references to God, the racism and controversial right wing comments when it comes to a presidential election. In my opinion he is making the controversial comments to appeal to the right. He actually is not really that far to the right as shown by his previous links to the democrat party.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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2/11/2016 3:50:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I am a Sanders supporter, so you will hear mostly good things about him from me. I do not agree with him on everything however. I am not to fond of his view on Palestine, which is ambiguous to say the least, and I am not to happy with his plan to deal with ISIS, which involves US military aid to Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Trump is a terrible candidate because
-He would destroy our relationship with almost every nation on Earth by insulting them and their leaders (and refusing to appologize)
-He wants to send troops to Iraq and Syria to fight ISIS on the ground.
-He wants to ban muslims from coming into the US
-His plan to build a wall is unrealistic and pointless
-He is a racist bigot
-He is a fascist
-He wants war with Iran
-He wants to deport immigrants, which would be a massive drain on our economy
-Wants to get rid of environmental regulations and build KXL
-He wants to privatize the national parks
-He makes the guy from Ancient Aliens look like he has great hair.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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3/1/2016 12:56:40 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 3:50:56 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
I am a Sanders supporter, so you will hear mostly good things about him from me. I do not agree with him on everything however. I am not to fond of his view on Palestine, which is ambiguous to say the least, and I am not to happy with his plan to deal with ISIS, which involves US military aid to Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Trump is a terrible candidate because
-He would destroy our relationship with almost every nation on Earth by insulting them and their leaders (and refusing to appologize)

Well, if those leaders attack him first. I think that there is also a start contrast between political candidates and world leaders.

-He wants to send troops to Iraq and Syria to fight ISIS on the ground.

Which is what any sane person would do if the threat of ISIS is to be ended. I don't support it, because I don't see them as an immediate threat, but for those that do, it's quite a sane idea.

-He wants to ban muslims from coming into the US

He wants to temporarily ban them from coming here until we can sort things out. Key word - temporary.

-His plan to build a wall is unrealistic and pointless

I can give you that one, although there's mile and miles of fencing and walled off area on the Southern border. It would also generate a lot of jobs too, as a public works project.

-He is a racist bigot

Nice buzzword. Please support it. Link me one time in which he said that one race was inferior to the other.

-He is a fascist

Support this as well.

-He wants war with Iran

Support this with evidence.

-He wants to deport immigrants, which would be a massive drain on our economy

Illegal immigrants. I do sense some dishonesty coming from you, and as someone who saw you as remotely intelligent and worthy of discussion, this thought is now starting to wane. He never said he wants to deport immigrants, he said illegal immigrants, and he would even let the non-criminal ones come back.

-Wants to get rid of environmental regulations and build KXL

Support it with evidence please.

-He wants to privatize the national parks

Wouldn't be too bad of an idea. Lots of tourism, meaning that the owners would have an incentive to treat the parks well.

-He makes the guy from Ancient Aliens look like he has great hair.

Yes, picking a candidate according to hair is truly a great feat. I would like to note that Bernie has worse hair, if you can even call that hair, than Trump does.
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/1/2016 1:22:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM, ConnorSween16 wrote:
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.

Trump is a cowardly little person. Insecure in every way.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/1/2016 1:28:29 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM, ConnorSween16 wrote:
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.

1) Both are playing off of the emotions of an angry voter base to fuel their campaign by making a phony enemy out of 'the establishment'

2) Neither will be able to push any meaningful legislation through Congress if elected

3) Neither have any notable foreign policy experience, which is a huge part of the job of being President
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BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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3/1/2016 3:29:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 12:56:40 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/11/2016 3:50:56 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
I am a Sanders supporter, so you will hear mostly good things about him from me. I do not agree with him on everything however. I am not to fond of his view on Palestine, which is ambiguous to say the least, and I am not to happy with his plan to deal with ISIS, which involves US military aid to Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Drumpf is a terrible candidate because
-He would destroy our relationship with almost every nation on Earth by insulting them and their leaders (and refusing to appologize)

Well, if those leaders attack him first. I think that there is also a start contrast between political candidates and world leaders.

-He wants to send troops to Iraq and Syria to fight ISIS on the ground.

Which is what any sane person would do if the threat of ISIS is to be ended. I don't support it, because I don't see them as an immediate threat, but for those that do, it's quite a sane idea.

-He wants to ban muslims from coming into the US

He wants to temporarily ban them from coming here until we can sort things out. Key word - temporary.

-His plan to build a wall is unrealistic and pointless

I can give you that one, although there's mile and miles of fencing and walled off area on the Southern border. It would also generate a lot of jobs too, as a public works project.

-He is a racist bigot

Nice buzzword. Please support it. Link me one time in which he said that one race was inferior to the other.

-He is a fascist

Support this as well.

-He wants war with Iran

Support this with evidence.

-He wants to deport immigrants, which would be a massive drain on our economy

Illegal immigrants. I do sense some dishonesty coming from you, and as someone who saw you as remotely intelligent and worthy of discussion, this thought is now starting to wane. He never said he wants to deport immigrants, he said illegal immigrants, and he would even let the non-criminal ones come back.

-Wants to get rid of environmental regulations and build KXL

Support it with evidence please.

-He wants to privatize the national parks

Wouldn't be too bad of an idea. Lots of tourism, meaning that the owners would have an incentive to treat the parks well.

-He makes the guy from Ancient Aliens look like he has great hair.

Yes, picking a candidate according to hair is truly a great feat. I would like to note that Bernie has worse hair, if you can even call that hair, than Drumpf does.

Please respond like I am, if you don't this takes up a TON of characters.
-First, he has insulted people who have done nothing to him, and thus I think that he would continue to to do this.
-On ISIS, it is INSANE no matter how you see it. It is the epitome of Einstein's definition of insanity: Trying the same thing and expecting the same result.
-Here is the thing about emergency measures that are called "temporary": They hardly ever go away. Remember the Espionage Act of 1918? It was meant to be "temporary" but Its still on the books TO THIS DAY!
--His wall would cost a huge amount of money and would be a drain on our economy. The parts that are walled off are what can be walled off right now, the terrain does not allow us to wall all of it off.
http://www.cnbc.com...
-Will any of these suffice as evidence of bigotry?
http://www.politico.eu...
-Support for the "he's a fascist" thing.
http://www.slate.com...
And perhaps the best support comes from Umberto Eco's 1995 essay "Eternal Fascism". If you examine the 14 points of what Eco calls "Ur-Fascism" and think about Donald Trump's ideals.
http://interglacial.com...
-On war with Iran
http://dailycaller.com...
http://www.mintpressnews.com...
And while I typically try to avoid posting anything From Infowars, in this case I will, as it shows an actual video of Trump stating he might take military action against Iran
http://www.infowars.com...
-Yes, he wants to deport illegal immigrants, however this would still be a massive drain on our economy. The cost of deporting them would cost of a HUGE amount of money, low estimates put the cost at $735 Billion! Once removed, Trump's plan for more border security would cost another $315 Billion. Plus we would lose billions in tax revenue, as in sales taxes, social security taxes and other taxes that everyone pays whether they are a citizen or not.
http://www.cnbc.com...
-Environment and KXL
http://www.cnn.com...
http://time.com...
http://www.politico.com...
http://www.bloomberg.com...
-You do realize the national parks are already major tourist attractions, mostly because they are free and open to all? They are already major economic boons for many communities across the US. If they were privatized, in all likelihood the billionares who bought them up would not actually use the parks for tourism, but for resource extraction: Oil drilling, mining, fracking, logging, etc. They would not be interested in preserving the natural resources when they could make more money exploiting them.
-The hair thing was a joke. And honestly, I think Trump's hair is actually worse then sanders's hair, because Sanders is balding because he is aging. Trump has no excuse for that thing on his head.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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3/1/2016 12:29:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 3:45:32 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM, ConnorSween16 wrote:
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.

Bernie Sanders is an awful candidate for the democrats as he is far too far to the left to attract centrist voters in a presidential election. As someone with generally centre right political views I also believe his policies would be disastrous for the USA and even as a UK citizen I would be concerned about the effects of his election both economically and in terms of military competence. His election would be greeted with delight by Russia, China, north Korea and other rivals/ enemies of the USA.
I see, so you wouldn't vote for a candidate who wants to improve the lot of the working poor and the disadvantaged, you would prefer a candidate who is bought and paid for by the 1% and will do their bidding. Anyone who thinks like that and is not a member of the 1% doesn't think at all.
Donald Trump is an interesting candidate. His personal success would make him unique in the fact he is someone who has succeeded in the world of business and economics not just talked and theorized about it before coming to power. I would expect him to be very successful in terms of economic policy. Foreign policy would possibly be a concern as his lack of experience may see him drawn into conflicts that should be avoided although he will likely intimidate rival countries and prove a strong leader. He will be excellent at dealing with immigration and could be an appealing candidate among the centrist voters. I think he is very clever and Will reduce the references to God, the racism and controversial right wing comments when it comes to a presidential election. In my opinion he is making the controversial comments to appeal to the right. He actually is not really that far to the right as shown by his previous links to the democrat party.
The Dump inherited $40million, do you want to tell me that you would be a failure with that headstart and using illegal immigrants on slave wages to build your empire?
Oh dear don't ask me for a loan of $10.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
autocorrect
Posts: 432
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3/1/2016 1:38:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
It remains to be seen who is left standing - but assuming the race is shaping up for a Trump V Sanders showdown, this divergence may be viewed as a failure of centrist politics. Sanders is way off to the left, while Trump is way off to the right...

However, there is another way to look at it. Arguably, because China and Russia have both embraced capitalism of some description, communism is a failed ideology. Without a root ideology, capitalism prevails - and the fruits of socialism wither on the vine in face of the unopposed progress of a capitalist rationale. In fear of the implications, socialism has retrenched - stiffened its sinews, and made an all out, last ditch attempt upon the centres of power.

That so, this apparent divergence to left and right extremes might be viewed as a temporary state of affairs - where socialist inspired political perspectives will either achieve sufficient success to root themselves in the fabric of society, or die out completely in face of the progressive rationale of capitalism and nationalism/security. If the former occurs, there will likely be a return to centrist politics - but if, as I suspect - Sanders, (and in the UK, Corbyn) are considered too leftist to be electable, we may be in for a period of unalloyed, and fairly extreme right wing politics.

I hope this helps the OP write his paper - which I think is pitched perfectly. Neither Trump nor Sanders are particularly attractive candidates - which makes me wonder why identikit politicians huddled together on the middle ground are suddenly so unpopular?
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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3/1/2016 11:50:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 12:29:17 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/11/2016 3:45:32 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM, ConnorSween16 wrote:
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.

Bernie Sanders is an awful candidate for the democrats as he is far too far to the left to attract centrist voters in a presidential election. As someone with generally centre right political views I also believe his policies would be disastrous for the USA and even as a UK citizen I would be concerned about the effects of his election both economically and in terms of military competence. His election would be greeted with delight by Russia, China, north Korea and other rivals/ enemies of the USA.
I see, so you wouldn't vote for a candidate who wants to improve the lot of the working poor and the disadvantaged, you would prefer a candidate who is bought and paid for by the 1% and will do their bidding. Anyone who thinks like that and is not a member of the 1% doesn't think at all.
Donald Trump is an interesting candidate. His personal success would make him unique in the fact he is someone who has succeeded in the world of business and economics not just talked and theorized about it before coming to power. I would expect him to be very successful in terms of economic policy. Foreign policy would possibly be a concern as his lack of experience may see him drawn into conflicts that should be avoided although he will likely intimidate rival countries and prove a strong leader. He will be excellent at dealing with immigration and could be an appealing candidate among the centrist voters. I think he is very clever and Will reduce the references to God, the racism and controversial right wing comments when it comes to a presidential election. In my opinion he is making the controversial comments to appeal to the right. He actually is not really that far to the right as shown by his previous links to the democrat party.
The Dump inherited $40million, do you want to tell me that you would be a failure with that headstart and using illegal immigrants on slave wages to build your empire?
Oh dear don't ask me for a loan of $10.

A return of $4. 5 billion on an initial $40 million is to say the least very impressive. Trump is clearly an entrepreneurial genius. Think what you like of his policy but you can't dispute his business success. His pro business, small government, low regulation, capitalist economic policies are the way forward. After entering office he will almost inevitably cut spending and government waste. His experience in business will prove invaluable in this task. Trump clearly knows how to manage money. Trump also plans to take the lowest earners out of tax.

Sanders is a socialist. It's a flawed economic concept I fundamentally oppose. Yes Bernie wants to help people but he won't. His proposed spending increases and tax rises will result in reduced tax revenue, increased borrowing, a recession, increased unemployment, a bigger public sector, a reduced private sector, many businesses down sizing or closing and many rich people and large corporations moving money abroad to avoid tax.

Trump will work with the rich to improve things for everyone in the economy while Sanders will attack the rich scare them away and create a weaker economy. America will be better off under trump than Sanders.

Do you support Sanders for the presidency?
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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3/2/2016 3:00:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 11:50:04 PM, beng100 wrote:
tax rises will result in reduced tax revenue
And this is precisely why the dump is winning, his supporters can actually believe this statement.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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3/3/2016 1:20:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 3:00:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 11:50:04 PM, beng100 wrote:
tax rises will result in reduced tax revenue
And this is precisely why the dump is winning, his supporters can actually believe this statement.

The reality is if you raise taxes for the rich they simply move abroad offsetting any increased revenue for those who stay. If you raise taxes too much you end up with major job losses, business activity in the country go down, less profit made in the private sector, reduced investment by businesses due to lower profits and decreases in tax revenue. The vast majority of economists agree that hiking taxes for the rich creates problems. It's simply a populist, idealist policy that does not deliver what it's supporters claim.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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3/3/2016 5:03:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 2:07:54 PM, ConnorSween16 wrote:
I am doing a 7 page term paper on how Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both horrible options for president. In addition to gathering research online, I would like some of the DDO's opinions on either or both candidates.

Im a democrat but I will vote for trump if its sanders vs trump

No offense but Sanders is too socialist for my taste
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