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Educational requirements before voting?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.
beng100
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2/16/2016 9:38:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.

I don't think that the fact you dislike trump is a good enough reason to end democracy. In my view a lot of the right wing rhetoric is simply an attempt to secure the nomination. If he stands in a presidential election he will pursue a more moderate agenda. His economic policies are sound and he is a very successful businessman.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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2/16/2016 9:41:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.

It all balances out, because these people are going to definitely vote against Trump.
walker_harris3
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2/16/2016 9:41:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.

It's not like college students are any smarter, they're buying in to far worse rhetorical nonsense with the free college crap that pickle-man from the streets of New York is spewing. Also, this proposal is completely racist, it would in effect, eliminate the right to vote for millions of minority voters.

What I see here is you denying that there is an issue with the VA and that there is no issue with how our military is currently operating, and therefore calling Trump (who got a much higher education than probably you did ironically), and his millions of supporters uneducated. How many rednecks do you know in New Hampshire? How did Donald Trump win among college educated primary voters in New Hampshire?
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/16/2016 9:46:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:38:24 PM, beng100 wrote:

I don't think that the fact you dislike trump is a good enough reason to end democracy. In my view a lot of the right wing rhetoric is simply an attempt to secure the nomination. If he stands in a presidential election he will pursue a more moderate agenda. His economic policies are sound and he is a very successful businessman.

It's not about disliking anyone. I wouldn't like Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz to become president either but I'm not going to argue that we need educational requirements to vote if one of them does become president. That's me disliking a candidate but admitting that other people may have different opinions.

Trump isn't a candidate. He's a gimmick. For people seriously buying into what he's saying shows a lack of truly understanding what's going on. The guy has never been in politics, doesn't understand how military decisions and foreign policy is made. He doesn't understand that budgeting the military means taking money from somewhere else. He just gets up on stage and declare "we'll have the strongest military ever!! No one's going to f*ck with us EVER!!" and some people just cheer that on.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/16/2016 9:57:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:41:32 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

It's not like college students are any smarter, they're buying in to far worse rhetorical nonsense with the free college crap that pickle-man from the streets of New York is spewing. Also, this proposal is completely racist, it would in effect, eliminate the right to vote for millions of minority voters.

What I see here is you denying that there is an issue with the VA and that there is no issue with how our military is currently operating, and therefore calling Trump (who got a much higher education than probably you did ironically), and his millions of supporters uneducated. How many rednecks do you know in New Hampshire? How did Donald Trump win among college educated primary voters in New Hampshire?

College students are at least better educated about how politics in our country works. I'd also propose adding in mandatory political science courses as breadth requirements. I don't know what you are referring to re: free college/pickle-man. My proposal has nothing to do with race. I don't think it should factor in at all.

I never denied that there's an issue with Veterans Affairs. What I said was Trump doesn't know how to fix that problem and Trump's supporters don't know that fixing a problem isn't as simple as getting up on stage and saying that you will. Politics is incredibly complicated (see the complex navigation Obama had to do with congress to get any bills passed and in general, to get anything done). Everyone wants to fix problems and it's not like if Trump gets elected, the problems with VA are going to vanish.

Trump has a bachelor's degree which isn't much different from the average American. I'm not talking about Trump's own education though - he's the one doing the manipulating.
walker_harris3
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2/16/2016 10:08:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:57:35 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 9:41:32 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

It's not like college students are any smarter, they're buying in to far worse rhetorical nonsense with the free college crap that pickle-man from the streets of New York is spewing. Also, this proposal is completely racist, it would in effect, eliminate the right to vote for millions of minority voters.

What I see here is you denying that there is an issue with the VA and that there is no issue with how our military is currently operating, and therefore calling Trump (who got a much higher education than probably you did ironically), and his millions of supporters uneducated. How many rednecks do you know in New Hampshire? How did Donald Trump win among college educated primary voters in New Hampshire?

College students are at least better educated about how politics in our country works. I'd also propose adding in mandatory political science courses as breadth requirements. I don't know what you are referring to re: free college/pickle-man. My proposal has nothing to do with race. I don't think it should factor in at all.

No they aren't, in the video posted above college students are signing a petition to allow Karl Marx to be Hillary Clinton's running mate. Another example, PC college student idiots signed a petition to end the 1st amendment. Only a select few people in college (political science and history majors) actually care and know anything about American politics. You don't know a lot about history either despite your college education, voting tests were used in the South to limit blacks from voting. We all know that a smaller proportion of minorities get a college education too which would eliminate their right to vote under your proposal. Whether you intend it to be or not, your proposal is inherently racist.

I never denied that there's an issue with Veterans Affairs. What I said was Trump doesn't know how to fix that problem and Trump's supporters don't know that fixing a problem isn't as simple as getting up on stage and saying that you will. Politics is incredibly complicated (see the complex navigation Obama had to do with congress to get any bills passed and in general, to get anything done). Everyone wants to fix problems and it's not like if Trump gets elected, the problems with VA are going to vanish.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com...

He went to an ivy league school.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/16/2016 10:28:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:08:26 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

No they aren't, in the video posted above college students are signing a petition to allow Karl Marx to be Hillary Clinton's running mate. Another example, PC college student idiots signed a petition to end the 1st amendment. Only a select few people in college (political science and history majors) actually care and know anything about American politics. You don't know a lot about history either despite your college education, voting tests were used in the South to limit blacks from voting. We all know that a smaller proportion of minorities get a college education too which would eliminate their right to vote under your proposal. Whether you intend it to be or not, your proposal is inherently racist.

I am proposing that political science classes be taken mandatorily. I agree that if you just go to college and take say, engineering classes, that's not going to improve your political education. I also think asking people to take tests before voting (similar to driving tests) will be beneficial. We don't allow any random person to drive on the street and we should apply a similar standard to voting.

It doesn't matter how many people of each race go to college because the proposal is inherently irrelevant to race. We should work on making sure that race-based discrimination doesn't occur in college admissions but that's an issue that is separate from voting.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com...

He went to an ivy league school.

Which is irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking about education for voters, not candidates.
walker_harris3
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2/16/2016 10:50:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:28:07 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:08:26 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

No they aren't, in the video posted above college students are signing a petition to allow Karl Marx to be Hillary Clinton's running mate. Another example, PC college student idiots signed a petition to end the 1st amendment. Only a select few people in college (political science and history majors) actually care and know anything about American politics. You don't know a lot about history either despite your college education, voting tests were used in the South to limit blacks from voting. We all know that a smaller proportion of minorities get a college education too which would eliminate their right to vote under your proposal. Whether you intend it to be or not, your proposal is inherently racist.

I am proposing that political science classes be taken mandatorily. I agree that if you just go to college and take say, engineering classes, that's not going to improve your political education. I also think asking people to take tests before voting (similar to driving tests) will be beneficial. We don't allow any random person to drive on the street and we should apply a similar standard to voting.
Horrible analogy, safety isn't put in harms way when voting.
Again, southern jim crow did the same thing you're proposing and it inhibited blacks from voting.

It doesn't matter how many people of each race go to college because the proposal is inherently irrelevant to race. We should work on making sure that race-based discrimination doesn't occur in college admissions but that's an issue that is separate from voting.
The only race based discrimination in college acceptance is now against whites with affirmative action in place and mandatory racial quotas set for public colleges. There is no discrimination against minorities. Colleges are lowering the standards to let more minority students in. (http://www.usatoday.com..., http://www.communitycollegereview.com..., http://archive.frontpagemag.com...) Only 20% of all black people in the US have a college degree. (http://www.jbhe.com...) So with your proposal, 80% of blacks would be unable to vote because they do not have a college degree. That makes race extremely relevant in whether or not they will be allowed to vote. I could also share with you the Hispanic demographics and statistics, they're actually worse.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com...

He went to an ivy league school.

Which is irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking about education for voters, not candidates.
The link is how he'd reform the VA if he's elected.

You need to think proposals like this through before proposing them, this is about the most un-American proposal I've ever seen.
Greyparrot
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2/16/2016 10:58:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:28:07 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:08:26 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

No they aren't, in the video posted above college students are signing a petition to allow Karl Marx to be Hillary Clinton's running mate. Another example, PC college student idiots signed a petition to end the 1st amendment. Only a select few people in college (political science and history majors) actually care and know anything about American politics. You don't know a lot about history either despite your college education, voting tests were used in the South to limit blacks from voting. We all know that a smaller proportion of minorities get a college education too which would eliminate their right to vote under your proposal. Whether you intend it to be or not, your proposal is inherently racist.

I am proposing that political science classes be taken mandatorily. I agree that if you just go to college and take say, engineering classes, that's not going to improve your political education. I also think asking people to take tests before voting (similar to driving tests) will be beneficial. We don't allow any random person to drive on the street and we should apply a similar standard to voting.

It doesn't matter how many people of each race go to college because the proposal is inherently irrelevant to race. We should work on making sure that race-based discrimination doesn't occur in college admissions but that's an issue that is separate from voting.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com...

He went to an ivy league school.

Which is irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking about education for voters, not candidates.

The idiots cancel each other's votes.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/16/2016 10:58:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:50:20 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
Horrible analogy, safety isn't put in harms way when voting.

Actually, we're putting the entire safety of the United States at risk when we allow people ignorant of politics to vote. At least with driving, we're only putting a limited number of people at risk.

I'm saying that Trump voters are being manipulated by Trump's rhetoric because they don't know any better. I don't care if Trump is educated because Trump is the one doing the manipulating.
beng100
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2/16/2016 11:11:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:46:30 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 9:38:24 PM, beng100 wrote:

I don't think that the fact you dislike trump is a good enough reason to end democracy. In my view a lot of the right wing rhetoric is simply an attempt to secure the nomination. If he stands in a presidential election he will pursue a more moderate agenda. His economic policies are sound and he is a very successful businessman.

It's not about disliking anyone. I wouldn't like Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz to become president either but I'm not going to argue that we need educational requirements to vote if one of them does become president. That's me disliking a candidate but admitting that other people may have different opinions.

Trump isn't a candidate. He's a gimmick. For people seriously buying into what he's saying shows a lack of truly understanding what's going on. The guy has never been in politics, doesn't understand how military decisions and foreign policy is made. He doesn't understand that budgeting the military means taking money from somewhere else. He just gets up on stage and declare "we'll have the strongest military ever!! No one's going to f*ck with us EVER!!" and some people just cheer that on.

I think the success of Donald trumps business career proves he knows how to manage finances. In his view the military needs strengthening. He will take money from somewhere else. However politicians tell people about where this money will be taken after elections not before them for obvious reasons. Cuts always prove unpopular with somebody. He is inexperienced with foreign policy. However he would be a strong leader who would actually cause an increased fear of messing with America if trump was in charge. Would Putin have invaded Ukraine if trump was in charge? Would he have started bombing Syrian rebels? I don't know the answer but I'm sure he would feel both events would be more risky with a trump administration then the current Obama one. Trump is an anti establishment candidate. In my view the economy is the biggest issue facing the usa right now. Your budget deficit is way too high. In my view a multibillionaire is better equipped to manage an economy then a career politician or a military general. I would like to see successful business people getting more involved in politics.
Greyparrot
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2/16/2016 11:15:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:58:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:50:20 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
Horrible analogy, safety isn't put in harms way when voting.

Actually, we're putting the entire safety of the United States at risk when we allow people ignorant of politics to vote. At least with driving, we're only putting a limited number of people at risk.

I'm saying that Trump voters are being manipulated by Trump's rhetoric because they don't know any better. I don't care if Trump is educated because Trump is the one doing the manipulating.

Every politician manipulates. Liberals fall for every false authority gag and conservatives fall for every doom gag. At least the idiots cancel out.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/16/2016 11:25:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 11:11:11 PM, beng100 wrote:
I think the success of Donald trumps business career proves he knows how to manage finances. In his view the military needs strengthening. He will take money from somewhere else. However politicians tell people about where this money will be taken after elections not before them for obvious reasons. Cuts always prove unpopular with somebody. He is inexperienced with foreign policy. However he would be a strong leader who would actually cause an increased fear of messing with America if trump was in charge. Would Putin have invaded Ukraine if trump was in charge? Would he have started bombing Syrian rebels? I don't know the answer but I'm sure he would feel both events would be more risky with a trump administration then the current Obama one. Trump is an anti establishment candidate. In my view the economy is the biggest issue facing the usa right now. Your budget deficit is way too high. In my view a multibillionaire is better equipped to manage an economy then a career politician or a military general. I would like to see successful business people getting more involved in politics.

Trump inherited his business from his father so being successful at business doesn't say much if you are given a handout. If Trump attacked Russia everytime they invade another country, he's opening us up to possible nuclear war. Foreign relations are often more about diplomacy than being willing to attack everyone who does something you disagree with. Obama is a skilled diplomat who can work with leaders from other countries to minimize warfare, something Trump doesn't have.
Greyparrot
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2/16/2016 11:55:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 11:25:18 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:11:11 PM, beng100 wrote:
I think the success of Donald trumps business career proves he knows how to manage finances. In his view the military needs strengthening. He will take money from somewhere else. However politicians tell people about where this money will be taken after elections not before them for obvious reasons. Cuts always prove unpopular with somebody. He is inexperienced with foreign policy. However he would be a strong leader who would actually cause an increased fear of messing with America if trump was in charge. Would Putin have invaded Ukraine if trump was in charge? Would he have started bombing Syrian rebels? I don't know the answer but I'm sure he would feel both events would be more risky with a trump administration then the current Obama one. Trump is an anti establishment candidate. In my view the economy is the biggest issue facing the usa right now. Your budget deficit is way too high. In my view a multibillionaire is better equipped to manage an economy then a career politician or a military general. I would like to see successful business people getting more involved in politics.

Trump inherited his business from his father so being successful at business doesn't say much if you are given a handout. If Trump attacked Russia everytime they invade another country, he's opening us up to possible nuclear war. Foreign relations are often more about diplomacy than being willing to attack everyone who does something you disagree with. Obama is a skilled diplomat who can work with leaders from other countries to minimize warfare, something Trump doesn't have.

They said the same thing about Obama before he got elected. You don't know what Trump is going to do.
beng100
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2/17/2016 12:05:56 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 11:25:18 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:11:11 PM, beng100 wrote:
I think the success of Donald trumps business career proves he knows how to manage finances. In his view the military needs strengthening. He will take money from somewhere else. However politicians tell people about where this money will be taken after elections not before them for obvious reasons. Cuts always prove unpopular with somebody. He is inexperienced with foreign policy. However he would be a strong leader who would actually cause an increased fear of messing with America if trump was in charge. Would Putin have invaded Ukraine if trump was in charge? Would he have started bombing Syrian rebels? I don't know the answer but I'm sure he would feel both events would be more risky with a trump administration then the current Obama one. Trump is an anti establishment candidate. In my view the economy is the biggest issue facing the usa right now. Your budget deficit is way too high. In my view a multibillionaire is better equipped to manage an economy then a career politician or a military general. I would like to see successful business people getting more involved in politics.

Trump inherited his business from his father so being successful at business doesn't say much if you are given a handout.

Thats pushing it. Its fair to say he had a good start in life but the vast majority of the wealth he has accumulated has been through his own actions and work.

If Trump attacked Russia everytime they invade another country, he's opening us up to possible nuclear war. Foreign relations are often more about diplomacy than being willing to attack everyone who does something you disagree with. Obama is a skilled diplomat who can work with leaders from other countries to minimize warfare, something Trump doesn't have.

He wouldent just attack them. He would be more aggressive militarily but he wouldent be dumb enough to attack Russia. In my view Barack Obama has been a weak president in terms of foreign affairs. He has failed to achieve anything in my view. Iraq has been taken over by Islamic state, the Israeli Palestinian situation remains unresolved, Russia has helped itself to territory in Georgia and Ukraine, north Korea is still a danger to the world and he has got an awful relationship with Russian leaders. He also failed to follow through after threatening a red line if Assad used chemical weapons and supported pointless air campaigns in Libya and Syria that have arguably worsened the chaos and violence in both countries. His only achievements i Can think of are improved relations with Iran and Cuba.
imabench
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2/17/2016 12:10:16 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:57:35 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 9:41:32 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

It's not like college students are any smarter, they're buying in to far worse rhetorical nonsense with the free college crap that pickle-man from the streets of New York is spewing. Also, this proposal is completely racist, it would in effect, eliminate the right to vote for millions of minority voters.

What I see here is you denying that there is an issue with the VA and that there is no issue with how our military is currently operating, and therefore calling Trump (who got a much higher education than probably you did ironically), and his millions of supporters uneducated. How many rednecks do you know in New Hampshire? How did Donald Trump win among college educated primary voters in New Hampshire?

College students are at least better educated about how politics in our country works.

They support Bernie over Hillary almost 10 to 1, so the exact opposite seems true

I'd also propose adding in mandatory political science courses as breadth requirements. I don't know what you are referring to re: free college/pickle-man. My proposal has nothing to do with race. I don't think it should factor in at all.

I never denied that there's an issue with Veterans Affairs. What I said was Trump doesn't know how to fix that problem and Trump's supporters don't know that fixing a problem isn't as simple as getting up on stage and saying that you will. Politics is incredibly complicated (see the complex navigation Obama had to do with congress to get any bills passed and in general, to get anything done). Everyone wants to fix problems and it's not like if Trump gets elected, the problems with VA are going to vanish.

Trump has a bachelor's degree which isn't much different from the average American. I'm not talking about Trump's own education though - he's the one doing the manipulating.
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Greyparrot
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2/17/2016 12:11:15 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 11:25:18 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:11:11 PM, beng100 wrote:

Trump inherited his business from his father so being successful at business doesn't say much if you are given a handout. If Trump attacked Russia everytime they invade another country, he's opening us up to possible nuclear war. Foreign relations are often more about diplomacy than being willing to attack everyone who does something you disagree with. Obama is a skilled diplomat who can work with leaders from other countries to minimize warfare, something Trump doesn't have.

This is also a backwards analysis of foreign policies.

Trump was and is against troops in the Middle East.

Obama is still there with no end in sight, and thousands of civilian drone deaths on his command.
Dark-one
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2/17/2016 12:11:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.

I have yet to read a well thought out argument against Trump that focuses on economics, administrative capability, logistics, and geopolitics. All three are required.
slo1
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2/17/2016 12:26:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 12:11:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:25:18 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:11:11 PM, beng100 wrote:

Trump inherited his business from his father so being successful at business doesn't say much if you are given a handout. If Trump attacked Russia everytime they invade another country, he's opening us up to possible nuclear war. Foreign relations are often more about diplomacy than being willing to attack everyone who does something you disagree with. Obama is a skilled diplomat who can work with leaders from other countries to minimize warfare, something Trump doesn't have.

This is also a backwards analysis of foreign policies.

Trump was and is against troops in the Middle East.

Obama is still there with no end in sight, and thousands of civilian drone deaths on his command.

Got that right. Obama has completely messed up. Watch as the Syrian cease fire lasts just long enough for Russia to get better positioning then it starts again. Assad is going to remain in power. Of course some of that mess has to do with our Israeli tail wagging the dog. We should have never taken the position to overthrow Assad as Trump would say.
Aran55633
Posts: 110
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2/17/2016 12:36:07 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 12:10:16 AM, imabench wrote:
At 2/16/2016 9:57:35 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/16/2016 9:41:32 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:

It's not like college students are any smarter, they're buying in to far worse rhetorical nonsense with the free college crap that pickle-man from the streets of New York is spewing. Also, this proposal is completely racist, it would in effect, eliminate the right to vote for millions of minority voters.

What I see here is you denying that there is an issue with the VA and that there is no issue with how our military is currently operating, and therefore calling Trump (who got a much higher education than probably you did ironically), and his millions of supporters uneducated. How many rednecks do you know in New Hampshire? How did Donald Trump win among college educated primary voters in New Hampshire?

College students are at least better educated about how politics in our country works.

They support Bernie over Hillary almost 10 to 1, so the exact opposite seems true


+1
I'd also propose adding in mandatory political science courses as breadth requirements. I don't know what you are referring to re: free college/pickle-man. My proposal has nothing to do with race. I don't think it should factor in at all.

I never denied that there's an issue with Veterans Affairs. What I said was Trump doesn't know how to fix that problem and Trump's supporters don't know that fixing a problem isn't as simple as getting up on stage and saying that you will. Politics is incredibly complicated (see the complex navigation Obama had to do with congress to get any bills passed and in general, to get anything done). Everyone wants to fix problems and it's not like if Trump gets elected, the problems with VA are going to vanish.

Trump has a bachelor's degree which isn't much different from the average American. I'm not talking about Trump's own education though - he's the one doing the manipulating.
Greyparrot
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2/17/2016 12:39:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 12:05:56 AM, beng100 wrote:
His only achievements i Can think of are improved relations with Iran and Cuba.

Taking and Holding hostages are an improvement?
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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2/17/2016 1:09:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Education =/= Smart. I know college educated Trump voters.

Moreover, setting an education requirement shuts out the uneducated from the process, which means politicians have no incentive to really care about them. I don't want politicians ignoring the vulnerable like that.
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Robkwoods
Posts: 570
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2/17/2016 1:10:59 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.

Nah. Just a do a one time re districting.
Requirements to vote:
18yrs old
Citizen
English Literate no one in the booth with you(doesn't include blindness, etc.)
Must have Voter ID

Also the executive has a legislature, this is how the executive is controlled. We have a crappy legislature so the executive is just destroying America.

People will wise up or maybe they won't; then it will be one for the history books.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/17/2016 1:32:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 9:25:25 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've always been against any sort of restrictions on voting beyond just being an American citizen but the support that Trump is getting makes me think otherwise.

Take this video for example: https://www.youtube.com...

He talks a lot of rhetorical nonsense. "We'll take care of our vets" "We'll build the most powerful military and no one will mess with us" etc. It's a lot of manipulation tactics that anyone who understands how politics works would see through. But an uneducated redneck wouldn't see through and would be easily manipulated by.

If we actually wind up electing Trump as president, I think there is a case to be made to restrict voting to people with at least an undergraduate degree from an accredited institution and an inclusion of a political "test" which all prospective voters must pass answering questions like what powers the president has and how they intertwine with the legislature and judicial branches.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. We're not voting for a celebrity on a reality show. We're voting for the most powerful position in the United States and a base level of knowledge should be required to protect people from making choices that will screw over everyone.

So north of 80% of black people ought to be stripped of the vote because you disagree with who may win the Republican nomination? We should strip the most economically disadvantaged members of society of their representation for that reason? Isn't that sort of like nuking a horsefly?
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Skepsikyma
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2/17/2016 1:40:26 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I love the assumption that political affiliation has anything to do with intelligence. Political allegiance has to do for the most part with cultural milieu, socioeconomic status, and a whole rash of societal conditioners on every level. It's the equivalent of saying that someone's stupid because they're religious to say that someone is stupid for having different political opinions. What an incredibly juvenile, self-congratulatory, and unnuanced way to look at the situation.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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2/17/2016 1:42:59 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 12:39:09 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/17/2016 12:05:56 AM, beng100 wrote:
His only achievements i Can think of are improved relations with Iran and Cuba.

Taking and Holding hostages are an improvement?

Good point. I forgot that.
imabench
Posts: 21,218
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2/17/2016 1:49:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 12:05:56 AM, beng100 wrote:

In my view Barack Obama has been a weak president in terms of foreign affairs. He has failed to achieve anything in my view. Iraq has been taken over by Islamic state, the Israeli Palestinian situation remains unresolved, Russia has helped itself to territory in Georgia and Ukraine, north Korea is still a danger to the world and he has got an awful relationship with Russian leaders.

Hes a president, not a god. There isnt a person on Earth who as President could have solved or addressed all of those conflicts because being President only goes so far.

He also failed to follow through after threatening a red line if Assad used chemical weapons

Actually he didnt. After Kerry made an offer that Assad could disband his use of chemical weapons to avoid further consequence, Assad obliged, and Assad now has destroyed his stockpile of chemical weapons https://www.washingtonpost.com...

and supported pointless air campaigns in Libya and Syria that have arguably worsened the chaos and violence in both countries.

Had he not been waging airstrikes against Isis in Syria than they likely would have been attacking Israel and Saudi Arabia by now.
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/17/2016 1:57:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 1:40:26 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I love the assumption that political affiliation has anything to do with intelligence. Political allegiance has to do for the most part with cultural milieu, socioeconomic status, and a whole rash of societal conditioners on every level. It's the equivalent of saying that someone's stupid because they're religious to say that someone is stupid for having different political opinions. What an incredibly juvenile, self-congratulatory, and unnuanced way to look at the situation.

It's not political allegiance. Preferring Jeb Bush over Hillary Clinton is political allegiance. Preferring John McCain over Barack Obama is political allegiance. Trump is not political allegiance, Trump is a celebrity gimmick. The fact that so many people are taking what's essentially a practical joke (Trump running for president) seriously is what is deeply concerning.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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2/17/2016 2:03:07 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 1:57:24 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/17/2016 1:40:26 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I love the assumption that political affiliation has anything to do with intelligence. Political allegiance has to do for the most part with cultural milieu, socioeconomic status, and a whole rash of societal conditioners on every level. It's the equivalent of saying that someone's stupid because they're religious to say that someone is stupid for having different political opinions. What an incredibly juvenile, self-congratulatory, and unnuanced way to look at the situation.

It's not political allegiance. Preferring Jeb Bush over Hillary Clinton is political allegiance. Preferring John McCain over Barack Obama is political allegiance. Trump is not political allegiance, Trump is a celebrity gimmick. The fact that so many people are taking what's essentially a practical joke (Trump running for president) seriously is what is deeply concerning.

The GOP is in a state of revolt right now. Jeb! will never be viewed as a conservative by the voters because he is an establishment candidate equivalent to Romney and McCain. Trump would never have had a chance were it not for the utter failures to deliver by McCain and Romney.