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Pope Francis: Trump is not a Christian

000ike
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2/18/2016 5:48:15 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
http://www.nytimes.com...

I literally burst out in laughter when I saw this headline; this pope never ceases to amaze me.

This is perhaps one of the most damning indictments the pope could level against a political figure. I'm skeptical that this would actually sway his supporters, considering that Catholics have been a component of the democratic base for decades now. But this at least reveals the deep conviction informing the opposition to Donald Trump.

The media and members of DDO have been more or less enamored with his popularity in the Republican base, but very little attention has been given to the amount of pure hatred he's accrued from the general public. He has the highest unfavorable ratings among all of the candidates. The british parliament was petitioned by hundreds of thousands to ban him from the country. He's hated by hispanics, hated by muslims, despised by minorities in general.

This man will never be president. And if the most powerful moral figure in the world is so inspired as to cast doubt on his devotion to god, then we know this opposition in a way transcends politics.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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2/18/2016 6:12:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Sedevacantism intensifies
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
TBR
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2/18/2016 6:16:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...

The point is still valid. Trumps support is a migh high, and narrow as he11. Catholics are split about 50/50, D/R. How Trump breaks out of his narrow band of supporters (fans to him) is totally worth discussion. I don't see any path to the WH, and still don't think he can even carry the nomination.
imabench
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2/18/2016 6:17:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
This is good, Trump will try to run for Pope and drop out of the presidential race since the Pope serves for life and has a way better house than the President
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TBR
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2/18/2016 6:20:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 6:17:55 PM, imabench wrote:
This is good, Trump will try to run for Pope and drop out of the presidential race since the Pope serves for life and has a way better house than the President

The Papal decorating style is more suit to Trump anyway.

"Think this is too much gold?" is something you will never hear Trump say
bsh1
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2/18/2016 6:50:13 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
OMG! Yes.

I love Francis <3
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


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thett3
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2/18/2016 7:18:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Pretty cool that the pope calls Trumps faith into question but doesn't say a thing about the masses of democratic politicians who are staunchly pro-abortion and claim to be Catholics
DDO Vice President

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#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
TBR
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2/18/2016 7:20:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:18:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
Pretty cool that the pope calls Trumps faith into question but doesn't say a thing about the masses of democratic politicians who are staunchly pro-abortion and claim to be Catholics

Um... I am having troubles thinking of one. Can you name any? Not saying they don't exist, but I just can't think any.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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2/18/2016 7:21:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 6:16:20 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...

The point is still valid. Trumps support is a migh high, and narrow as he11. Catholics are split about 50/50, D/R. How Trump breaks out of his narrow band of supporters (fans to him) is totally worth discussion. I don't see any path to the WH, and still don't think he can even carry the nomination.

I expect him to get the nomination. I also expect him to reduce the right wing extremist policies and rhetoric after he secures the nomination. He is actually more moderate then most people think hence his previous links to the the democrat party. He is unlikely to beat Clinton who I regard as a strong candidate with decent moderate policies. However the left wing social democrat Bernie Sanders will struggle to win over centrist voters. Americans generally don't like socialism. If trump started talking about economics, foreign policy and American nationalism he could win round the moderate voters who will be equally apprehensive about both potential candidates. Its also common for one party to serve two four year terms then leave office. This is partly through a general frustration with the current party and president after eight years and a simple desire for change for changes sake.
thett3
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2/18/2016 7:21:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:20:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 7:18:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
Pretty cool that the pope calls Trumps faith into question but doesn't say a thing about the masses of democratic politicians who are staunchly pro-abortion and claim to be Catholics

Um... I am having troubles thinking of one. Can you name any? Not saying they don't exist, but I just can't think any.

Nancy Pelosi? Joe Biden?

Seriously?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
TBR
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2/18/2016 7:22:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:18:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
Pretty cool that the pope calls Trumps faith into question but doesn't say a thing about the masses of democratic politicians who are staunchly pro-abortion and claim to be Catholics

Wait, looks like Pelosi is Cathloic
TBR
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2/18/2016 7:25:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:21:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 7:20:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 7:18:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
Pretty cool that the pope calls Trumps faith into question but doesn't say a thing about the masses of democratic politicians who are staunchly pro-abortion and claim to be Catholics

Um... I am having troubles thinking of one. Can you name any? Not saying they don't exist, but I just can't think any.

Nancy Pelosi? Joe Biden?

Seriously?

Its not like Biden has been very pro-choice.
TBR
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2/18/2016 7:33:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:21:14 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:16:20 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...

The point is still valid. Trumps support is a migh high, and narrow as he11. Catholics are split about 50/50, D/R. How Trump breaks out of his narrow band of supporters (fans to him) is totally worth discussion. I don't see any path to the WH, and still don't think he can even carry the nomination.

I expect him to get the nomination. I also expect him to reduce the right wing extremist policies and rhetoric after he secures the nomination. He is actually more moderate then most people think hence his previous links to the the democrat party. He is unlikely to beat Clinton who I regard as a strong candidate with decent moderate policies. However the left wing social democrat Bernie Sanders will struggle to win over centrist voters. Americans generally don't like socialism. If trump started talking about economics, foreign policy and American nationalism he could win round the moderate voters who will be equally apprehensive about both potential candidates. Its also common for one party to serve two four year terms then leave office. This is partly through a general frustration with the current party and president after eight years and a simple desire for change for changes sake.

No doubt he will moderate himself in a general, I don't see that fixing the problem.

As for party fatigue, that is an observation only. There is no good way to assess this. Pre WWII, it was MORE likely to hold, and after only slight disadvantage.
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
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2/18/2016 7:35:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
The Pope has no place in politics. Calling anyone who wants a border wall on an extremely volatile border not a real Christian is just complete propaganda and insulting to millions of Christians.

Dear Pope,
F*ck you, you pagan tycoon of a Priest!

Sincerely,
A Protestant
TBR
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2/18/2016 7:37:27 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:21:14 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:16:20 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...

The point is still valid. Trumps support is a migh high, and narrow as he11. Catholics are split about 50/50, D/R. How Trump breaks out of his narrow band of supporters (fans to him) is totally worth discussion. I don't see any path to the WH, and still don't think he can even carry the nomination.

I expect him to get the nomination. I also expect him to reduce the right wing extremist policies and rhetoric after he secures the nomination. He is actually more moderate then most people think hence his previous links to the the democrat party. He is unlikely to beat Clinton who I regard as a strong candidate with decent moderate policies. However the left wing social democrat Bernie Sanders will struggle to win over centrist voters. Americans generally don't like socialism. If trump started talking about economics, foreign policy and American nationalism he could win round the moderate voters who will be equally apprehensive about both potential candidates. Its also common for one party to serve two four year terms then leave office. This is partly through a general frustration with the current party and president after eight years and a simple desire for change for changes sake.

Here I found this

Up through the Second World War, there were 2 elections in which one party had controlled the presidency for 8 consecutive years and was defeated. On the other hand, there were 5 elections in which one party had controlled the presidency for (exactly) 8 consecutive years and retained control. That's over 70% success in holding on for 12 years plus.

Moving to the modern (i.e., post WWII) period, there have been 6 elections in which one party has controlled the White House for exactly 8 years. The other party has won 5 of those. ~83% failure

Point is, there just isn't enough data to say anything other than how it "feels"
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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2/18/2016 7:50:40 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:33:44 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 7:21:14 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:16:20 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...

The point is still valid. Trumps support is a migh high, and narrow as he11. Catholics are split about 50/50, D/R. How Trump breaks out of his narrow band of supporters (fans to him) is totally worth discussion. I don't see any path to the WH, and still don't think he can even carry the nomination.

I expect him to get the nomination. I also expect him to reduce the right wing extremist policies and rhetoric after he secures the nomination. He is actually more moderate then most people think hence his previous links to the the democrat party. He is unlikely to beat Clinton who I regard as a strong candidate with decent moderate policies. However the left wing social democrat Bernie Sanders will struggle to win over centrist voters. Americans generally don't like socialism. If trump started talking about economics, foreign policy and American nationalism he could win round the moderate voters who will be equally apprehensive about both potential candidates. Its also common for one party to serve two four year terms then leave office. This is partly through a general frustration with the current party and president after eight years and a simple desire for change for changes sake.

No doubt he will moderate himself in a general, I don't see that fixing the problem.

As for party fatigue, that is an observation only. There is no good way to assess this. Pre WWII, it was MORE likely to hold, and after only slight disadvantage.

True. In recent times though it has been a trend. People are more critical of politicians these days and there is a desire to change things. Hence the popularity of the non establishment candidates, trump, Cruz and Sanders.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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2/18/2016 7:54:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:37:27 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 7:21:14 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:16:20 PM, TBR wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:09:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
Walls are not Christian.

Pope Francis, tear down that wall! http://therealrevo.com...

The point is still valid. Trumps support is a migh high, and narrow as he11. Catholics are split about 50/50, D/R. How Trump breaks out of his narrow band of supporters (fans to him) is totally worth discussion. I don't see any path to the WH, and still don't think he can even carry the nomination.

I expect him to get the nomination. I also expect him to reduce the right wing extremist policies and rhetoric after he secures the nomination. He is actually more moderate then most people think hence his previous links to the the democrat party. He is unlikely to beat Clinton who I regard as a strong candidate with decent moderate policies. However the left wing social democrat Bernie Sanders will struggle to win over centrist voters. Americans generally don't like socialism. If trump started talking about economics, foreign policy and American nationalism he could win round the moderate voters who will be equally apprehensive about both potential candidates. Its also common for one party to serve two four year terms then leave office. This is partly through a general frustration with the current party and president after eight years and a simple desire for change for changes sake.

Here I found this

Up through the Second World War, there were 2 elections in which one party had controlled the presidency for 8 consecutive years and was defeated. On the other hand, there were 5 elections in which one party had controlled the presidency for (exactly) 8 consecutive years and retained control. That's over 70% success in holding on for 12 years plus.

Moving to the modern (i.e., post WWII) period, there have been 6 elections in which one party has controlled the White House for exactly 8 years. The other party has won 5 of those. ~83% failure

Point is, there just isn't enough data to say anything other than how it "feels"

That backs my point up though? I think the recent data is much more relevant. Only once has a party stayed in power for more than two terms since the second world war. The general trend has been 8 years of one party then 8 years of the other.
Greyparrot
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2/18/2016 8:11:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:35:58 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
The Pope has no place in politics. Calling anyone who wants a border wall on an extremely volatile border not a real Christian is just complete propaganda and insulting to millions of Christians.

Dear Pope,
F*ck you, you pagan tycoon of a Priest!

Sincerely,
A Protestant

How is that any different from the pope excommunicating scientists?

Shameful really.
I hope this gets Trump more atheist and protestant votes.
dylancatlow
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2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?
Greyparrot
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2/18/2016 10:33:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

http://therealrevo.com...
dylancatlow
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2/18/2016 10:35:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:33:32 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

http://therealrevo.com...

Please tell me that's not the Vatican.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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2/18/2016 10:37:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

The reference to walls and bridges was figurative . . . that anyone would read that comment and derive from it the notion that the Pope takes issue with the literal construction of walls, just defies commonsense.

Granted, the proposal to build a wall at the southern border is what's at issue, but even the most basic faculty of reading comprehension would show that the pontiff takes issue with the broader prejudice against undocumented immigrants.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
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2/18/2016 10:44:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:37:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

The reference to walls and bridges was figurative . . . that anyone would read that comment and derive from it the notion that the Pope takes issue with the literal construction of walls, just defies commonsense.

Granted, the proposal to build a wall at the southern border is what's at issue, but even the most basic faculty of reading comprehension would show that the pontiff takes issue with the broader prejudice against undocumented immigrants.

The point here is that his comment probably has more to do with Trump's rhetoric than the specific proposal to enforce border security.

Were he chiefly concerned with the latter, his commentary would not be specifically directed at Trump.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
walker_harris3
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2/18/2016 10:49:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:44:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:37:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

The reference to walls and bridges was figurative . . . that anyone would read that comment and derive from it the notion that the Pope takes issue with the literal construction of walls, just defies commonsense.

Granted, the proposal to build a wall at the southern border is what's at issue, but even the most basic faculty of reading comprehension would show that the pontiff takes issue with the broader prejudice against undocumented immigrants.

The point here is that his comment probably has more to do with Trump's rhetoric than the specific proposal to enforce border security.

Were he chiefly concerned with the latter, his commentary would not be specifically directed at Trump.

It wasn't specifically directed at Trump, he said, "anyone who wants the border wall isn't Christian."
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,243
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2/18/2016 10:49:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:37:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

The reference to walls and bridges was figurative . . . that anyone would read that comment and derive from it the notion that the Pope takes issue with the literal construction of walls, just defies commonsense.

Granted, the proposal to build a wall at the southern border is what's at issue, but even the most basic faculty of reading comprehension would show that the pontiff takes issue with the broader prejudice against undocumented immigrants.

Other than the part about bridges, I don't think it was intended to be figurative. Apart from deporting illegals already in the country, there's not much else to Trump's border policy. I ask again: is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them. If you're not allowed to kick illegals out of the country, or prevent them from entering, then you do not have an effective border. Are effective borders anti-Christian?
000ike
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2/18/2016 10:53:13 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:49:33 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:44:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:37:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

The reference to walls and bridges was figurative . . . that anyone would read that comment and derive from it the notion that the Pope takes issue with the literal construction of walls, just defies commonsense.

Granted, the proposal to build a wall at the southern border is what's at issue, but even the most basic faculty of reading comprehension would show that the pontiff takes issue with the broader prejudice against undocumented immigrants.

The point here is that his comment probably has more to do with Trump's rhetoric than the specific proposal to enforce border security.

Were he chiefly concerned with the latter, his commentary would not be specifically directed at Trump.

It wasn't specifically directed at Trump, he said, "anyone who wants the border wall isn't Christian."

That's neither what he said nor (In all likelihood) what he meant. The pope is a pretty smart guy; and your interpretation of his statement isn't commensurate with that intelligence.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
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2/18/2016 10:54:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:35:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:33:32 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:04:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Substituting vague platitudes for actual arguments: the Pope certainly qualifies as a Christian :)

But yeah, his argument is really dumb. Is it against Christian morals to want borders as well as the means to enforce them? Is it really?

http://therealrevo.com...

Please tell me that's not the Vatican.

yes, that's a christian wall.