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Just a thought about afgan war...

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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11/7/2010 4:19:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The challenge is to come up with a way to satisfy interventionism; and still seem sane. Why is Russia null and void today? Why did communism loose its footing in Europe? Had we followed up from the cold war tactic of containment, we may have a different story.
Politically, we could have spoken out against "Extreme Islam," still going with the whole "assisting people in becoming free everywhere" slogan. Economically we could have sent a lot of money into Afghanistan and rebuilt it from a dirt pile into a more modern city. We could have shown the people of Afghanistan that democracy has a graceful hand; giving the country more money would cause the people to turn their backs on extreme terrorism and impress upon them the good of a democratic system, rather than force it on them with war. Militarily, we should have enlisted NATO to help with our rebuild mission. Instead of "Operation enduring freedom", we could have "Operation rebuild into freedom." We could have shown the people the good things about freedom, rather than the imperial freedom to wage war. I am not a liberal or neoconservative, but this is my best attempt at protecting the interests of both parties. Lets free Afghanistan and weed out terrorism by rebuilding and reinforcing the democratic behavior of the surrounding people. By building up the country, we could have indirectly eradicated extreme Islam. Killing people with kindness does work. Because we killed people with guns instead of showing them kindness, we missed our chances at winning a war against a tactic.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/7/2010 4:50:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Because Bush installed so many warlords into the government in 2002, most of the aid money we send goes to buying corrupt officials mansion in Dubai. http://www.rawstory.com...

So sending more money wouldn't do much to stop terrorism, since it would do nothing to stem the general poverty in the country.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/7/2010 5:41:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think we have money to send anyone
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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11/7/2010 6:01:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 5:41:35 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I don't think we have money to send anyone

I was saying instead of us getting into a war of guns. Instead of spending money on war, we send money rebuilding.

It is a long shot, but just a thought.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/7/2010 6:21:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 6:01:04 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 11/7/2010 5:41:35 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I don't think we have money to send anyone

I was saying instead of us getting into a war of guns. Instead of spending money on war, we send money rebuilding.

It is a long shot, but just a thought.

oh definitely, I bet they'd be down for democracy if we told them there is 12k in it for each and every one of them.

348700082193 spent on war to date / 29021099 population = 12015, or 12 times the per capita GDP
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/7/2010 6:35:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You're both missing the point - money spent on rebuilding doesn't go to rebuilding, in the 2nd most corrupt country in the world.

The U.S. recently cut off $5 billion in aid money to Afghanistan because it couldn't guarantee that the funds wouldn't simply be pilfered by corrupt politicians.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/7/2010 6:38:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 6:35:41 PM, bluesteel wrote:
You're both missing the point - money spent on rebuilding doesn't go to rebuilding, in the 2nd most corrupt country in the world.

The U.S. recently cut off $5 billion in aid money to Afghanistan because it couldn't guarantee that the funds wouldn't simply be pilfered by corrupt politicians.

I wasn't trying to make any kind of argument for it, simply putting into perspective how much money gets pumped into the country.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/7/2010 6:39:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 6:35:41 PM, bluesteel wrote:
You're both missing the point - money spent on rebuilding doesn't go to rebuilding, in the 2nd most corrupt country in the world.

The U.S. recently cut off $5 billion in aid money to Afghanistan because it couldn't guarantee that the funds wouldn't simply be pilfered by corrupt politicians.

It's always a comforting thought when Afghanistan is facing the same problem the U.S. is... <sigh>
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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11/7/2010 6:39:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 6:35:41 PM, bluesteel wrote:
You're both missing the point - money spent on rebuilding doesn't go to rebuilding, in the 2nd most corrupt country in the world.


I understand, but just like in Europe, we would make sure it went in the right places. It would not be without ties.

The U.S. recently cut off $5 billion in aid money to Afghanistan because it couldn't guarantee that the funds wouldn't simply be pilfered by corrupt politicians.

(I understand it is far out, but I am just thinking outside of the box)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/7/2010 6:44:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 6:39:16 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 11/7/2010 6:35:41 PM, bluesteel wrote:
You're both missing the point - money spent on rebuilding doesn't go to rebuilding, in the 2nd most corrupt country in the world.


I understand, but just like in Europe, we would make sure it went in the right places. It would not be without ties.

The U.S. recently cut off $5 billion in aid money to Afghanistan because it couldn't guarantee that the funds wouldn't simply be pilfered by corrupt politicians.

(I understand it is far out, but I am just thinking outside of the box)

You're not that far out of the box. The "surge" (shift to counter-insurgency) in Afghanistan involved massive infusions of aid money.

However, tying aid doesn't work because there's no good means of enforcement. Last time we threatened Karzai to clean up corruption, he threatened to join the Taliban. The guy doesn't even need our money, considering he recently admitted to taking bags full of money from Iran for the last 8 years.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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11/8/2010 2:31:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You should change your screen name to Captain Hindsight... but in all seriousness, doing what you suggest would have likely been an equally massive waste of money. It may have helped in saving face, you know, avoiding the whole "we know what's good for you so do as we say or risk death" image that overshadowed the whole thing, but the money would have just ended up in the pockets of corrupt leaders and militias. That's not to mention that the "trigger" for the whole Afghanistan thing was 9/11 so there was a measure of revenge to be had by you freedom-loving Americans and your trusty NATO sidekicks. Either way it was lose-lose.