Total Posts:35|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Why Sanders?

Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:29:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Because he's anti-establishment, and most people that support anti-establishment candidates for the sake of being anti-establishment are too dumb to actually look at his fiscal policies.

Why doesn't everyone just understand that we need to get behind Trump? It's so simple. If you are someone who supports anti-establishment members for the sake of itself, then back the guy that can actually beat Hillary. I hope that once Hillary wins the nomination his support-base will hop onto the Trump train.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.
Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:31:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:29:28 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Because he's anti-establishment, and most people that support anti-establishment candidates for the sake of being anti-establishment are too dumb to actually look at his fiscal policies.

Why doesn't everyone just understand that we need to get behind Trump? It's so simple. If you are someone who supports anti-establishment members for the sake of itself, then back the guy that can actually beat Hillary. I hope that once Hillary wins the nomination his support-base will hop onto the Trump train.

Hillary is the 2nd most hated candidate. All the Republicans had to do was back a moderately hated candidate like Cruz, but they decide to back the one guy who can't beat Hillary, and is the most hated candidate. TRUMP. Personally, I prefer Hillary over Trump.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:35:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.


So, basically you think anything other than trickle-down is "insane". Is that right?

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Well, this is speculation at best. Calling it "insane" seems a bit hyperbolic.


Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

And right into GOP talking points. Government = BAD.

I don't see much for the charge of "insane" then.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:40:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

at least 90% of his support is from millennials who are fine with him jacking up taxes probably because they themselves dont pay taxes and therefore have almost everything to gain at no cost at all
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:43:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:35:54 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.


So, basically you think anything other than trickle-down is "insane". Is that right?

Could you justify his plan? I don't think raising the taxes by that crazy % is the answer.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Well, this is speculation at best. Calling it "insane" seems a bit hyperbolic.



Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

And right into GOP talking points. Government = BAD.

You didn't actually refute my point. More government leads to more corruption.

http://finance.townhall.com...

I don't see much for the charge of "insane" then.
Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:44:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:40:11 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

at least 90% of his support is from millennials who are fine with him jacking up taxes probably because they themselves dont pay taxes and therefore have almost everything to gain at no cost at all

+1. I would support Hillary over Sanders.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:46:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:44:38 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:40:11 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

at least 90% of his support is from millennials who are fine with him jacking up taxes probably because they themselves dont pay taxes and therefore have almost everything to gain at no cost at all

+1. I would support Hillary over Sanders.

I really wish Biden would have ran. As a Democrat the only main reason im for Hillary is because im Anti Sanders. If Biden were running though I would flip to his side in a heartbeat because he is genuinely more human and more trustworthy than Hillary (to me).
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 7:48:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:43:12 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:35:54 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.


So, basically you think anything other than trickle-down is "insane". Is that right?

Could you justify his plan? I don't think raising the taxes by that crazy % is the answer.

We have had taxes much higher in the very recent past - a past that favored the middle class. Now, point is, nothing "insane" about increasing taxes, and nothing that is going to burn the economy to the ground. This is largely exaggeration and fear.


His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Well, this is speculation at best. Calling it "insane" seems a bit hyperbolic.




Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

And right into GOP talking points. Government = BAD.

You didn't actually refute my point. More government leads to more corruption.

Not necessarily. do you think there is "corruption" in the current health insurance industry? If that market was replaced its entirety with a government bureaucracy - would you guess that there would be more or less corruption?


http://finance.townhall.com...

I don't see much for the charge of "insane" then.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:22:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Okay, can we all agree to stop saying that people have "no understanding of economics". Here is the thing about economics: different economists have different theories, but none of them are morons when it comes to that academic field. Seeing as 170 economists with academic credentials, including Robert Reich, James K. Galbraith and Richard Wolff signed an open letter supporting Bernie Sanders's economic plans. These people have a greater knowledge of economics than most of us could ever hope to have. To say Sanders (who also is a ranking member of the Senate budget committee) knows nothing about economics is simply just an abusive ad hominem. Lets have a debate, not belittle each other and call each other stupid.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.
TheFlex
Posts: 1,745
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:41:22 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 8:22:17 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Okay, can we all agree to stop saying that people have "no understanding of economics". Here is the thing about economics: different economists have different theories, but none of them are morons when it comes to that academic field. Seeing as 170 economists with academic credentials, including Robert Reich, James K. Galbraith and Richard Wolff signed an open letter supporting Bernie Sanders's economic plans. These people have a greater knowledge of economics than most of us could ever hope to have. To say Sanders (who also is a ranking member of the Senate budget committee) knows nothing about economics is simply just an abusive ad hominem. Lets have a debate, not belittle each other and call each other stupid.

http://www.debate.org...

Joey wrote a pretty insightful article on this.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:46:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I'd support Sanders over Hillary. Hillary is ruthless, but we can run over Bernie Sanders.

The problem with Bernie Sanders over Hillary would be the irreversible damage he causes with his shittty foreign policy.
Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:48:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

That's a big "sometimes". Over the last several decades government spending has only increased. Do has it been improving? We are increasing spending on welfare, but more people are getting poor. Sanders tax plans are not sufficient enough to cover all the things he says he will do, and that's a fact.


2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

Brendan, I get what you are saying, but you are literally defying the purpose of labor with minimum wage laws. If I generate a company $10, then I should be paid $9.99 max (obviously an exaggeration) I do not deserve $15, because then the buisness would lose money, defeating the whole purpose of buisness. The Nordic countries do not even have minimum wage laws, but instead have unions negotiate the price with the employers, which is how it's supposed to work. Fighting for fair pay is not something I oppose, but a $15 minimum wage is the wrong way to do it. It doesn't even take the cost of living into factor.

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

How would increasing government make it the people's puppet? The only reliable puppet is one that doesn't do everything for you, and let's people make decisions for themselves.
Grizzly-Jones
Posts: 90
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:56:13 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:48:14 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:43:12 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:35:54 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.


So, basically you think anything other than trickle-down is "insane". Is that right?

Could you justify his plan? I don't think raising the taxes by that crazy % is the answer.

We have had taxes much higher in the very recent past - a past that favored the middle class. Now, point is, nothing "insane" about increasing taxes, and nothing that is going to burn the economy to the ground. This is largely exaggeration and fear.



His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Well, this is speculation at best. Calling it "insane" seems a bit hyperbolic.




Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

And right into GOP talking points. Government = BAD.

You didn't actually refute my point. More government leads to more corruption.

Not necessarily. do you think there is "corruption" in the current health insurance industry? If that market was replaced its entirety with a government bureaucracy - would you guess that there would be more or less corruption?

Well in the U.S it certainly does.




http://finance.townhall.com...

I don't see much for the charge of "insane" then.
Death23
Posts: 779
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 8:57:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

But my picture says people get more money!

http://3p3mq242g5jc2ki76r3wi6fq.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com...

I like my picture. I don't like yours.

Factual dispute? Which one is the truth? Are both lies? Who knows.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:07:59 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 8:46:58 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'd support Sanders over Hillary. Hillary is ruthless, but we can run over Bernie Sanders.

The problem with Bernie Sanders over Hillary would be the irreversible damage he causes with his shittty foreign policy.

Bernie would do damage to our foreign policy? Hillary's record on foreign policy is abysmal! Bernie may not have much experience in the field of war crimes, but his card is blank, while Hillary's is drenched in blood and oil.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:08:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 8:56:13 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:48:14 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:43:12 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:35:54 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.


So, basically you think anything other than trickle-down is "insane". Is that right?

Could you justify his plan? I don't think raising the taxes by that crazy % is the answer.

We have had taxes much higher in the very recent past - a past that favored the middle class. Now, point is, nothing "insane" about increasing taxes, and nothing that is going to burn the economy to the ground. This is largely exaggeration and fear.



His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Well, this is speculation at best. Calling it "insane" seems a bit hyperbolic.




Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.

And right into GOP talking points. Government = BAD.

You didn't actually refute my point. More government leads to more corruption.

Not necessarily. do you think there is "corruption" in the current health insurance industry? If that market was replaced its entirety with a government bureaucracy - would you guess that there would be more or less corruption?

Well in the U.S it certainly does.




http://finance.townhall.com...

I don't see much for the charge of "insane" then.

Anything to back that? I think not.

Just shouting "Sanders is insane" is childish. His credentials for economic issues is better that Clinton, Trump or any of the others. The proposals aren't even radical, new, or untested. Admit that you simply don't like him and be done with it. I doubt any democratic was counting on your vote, or could get it anyway.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:09:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

The government is not efficient in handing out services. Thats why I now oppose Single Payer healthcare, and support a Soical insurance instead.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:16:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 9:09:19 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

The government is not efficient in handing out services. Thats why I now oppose Single Payer healthcare, and support a Soical insurance instead.

Well seeing as single payer has been shown to be more efficient than the current system in the US and reduce bureaucracy in the US healthcare system, I would say it is more efficient.
Is social insurance anything like social credit or social security (as in the concept)?
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:27:03 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 9:16:42 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 9:09:19 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

The government is not efficient in handing out services. Thats why I now oppose Single Payer healthcare, and support a Soical insurance instead.

Well seeing as single payer has been shown to be more efficient than the current system in the US and reduce bureaucracy in the US healthcare system, I would say it is more efficient.
Is social insurance anything like social credit or social security (as in the concept)?

Ok, let's not talk about the current system, since it doesn't stay true to any of the 4 system that countries follow. It's pathetic and fragmented. "The whole competition will bring down prices" is not even available because the government does has over-regulated the market in that sense, but it's unregulated in the sense that the consumer is at the mercy of his insurance provider.

A single payer system leads to many problems, because it would result in longer wait times, and the care is satisfactory. I have experienced it, and I can tell you it's a pain in the a$$. This is what happens in countries like Canada, who by the way is ranked 30th for it's healthcare system, (U.S is 37th)

Social Insurance is what countries like Japan, Switzerland, and Singapore have. It's an insurance based system like we have, but the government allows insurances to compete and lower prices for everybody. There are public options, and laws are put forth, which makes it illegal for insurances to charge premiums more than 20% of their income (somethig like that) The outcome is superb, fast service, more choice as to what packages you can buy, and if you need more coverage you are free to buy it. The most basic package provides pretty much everything the average family would need.

With this, the U.S can certainly save more money, and most importantly more people will be covered. It's basically what ObamaCare should have been.

All those countries have top notch healthcare, while spending is very low per capita.

I certainly am a fan of this, since it's cheaper, more efficient, and more people get covered. Pair this with Basic Income, nearly American who lives this country should be able to purchase insurance, and is exempt from crappy government healthcare.

Ask any other questions if you have any.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:27:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 9:16:42 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 9:09:19 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

The government is not efficient in handing out services. Thats why I now oppose Single Payer healthcare, and support a Soical insurance instead.

Well seeing as single payer has been shown to be more efficient than the current system in the US and reduce bureaucracy in the US healthcare system, I would say it is more efficient.
Is social insurance anything like social credit or social security (as in the concept)?

https://www.youtube.com...
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
slo1
Posts: 4,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:30:59 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Hyperbole. Have you ever considered how beneficial it would be for businesses to get from under the yolk of providing health care to their employees? Have you ever considered why the fiscal right never consider the anti competitiveness and lack of individuse choice caused by employer provider group health insurance schemes?

You have been sold economic untruths and propoganda. Bernie is challenging convention and most places analyzing his tax plan are not considering cost implications and savings to the household. IE not paying health insurance premiums.

I'm not a fan of single payer and would rather see individual mandated individual policies which the individual chooses which government kick in for premium supports based upon means testing. But one needs to recognize the fact that 4 of the last 5 Republicans supported keeping previous conditions mandates in play. That is absolutely amazing and would not have happened without Democratic leadership jamming obamacare through.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,246
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:45:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 9:30:59 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Hyperbole. Have you ever considered how beneficial it would be for businesses to get from under the yolk of providing health care to their employees? Have you ever considered why the fiscal right never consider the anti competitiveness and lack of individuse choice caused by employer provider group health insurance schemes?

You have been sold economic untruths and propoganda. Bernie is challenging convention and most places analyzing his tax plan are not considering cost implications and savings to the household. IE not paying health insurance premiums.

I'm not a fan of single payer and would rather see individual mandated individual policies which the individual chooses which government kick in for premium supports based upon means testing. But one needs to recognize the fact that 4 of the last 5 Republicans supported keeping previous conditions mandates in play. That is absolutely amazing and would not have happened without Democratic leadership jamming obamacare through.

Also, Sanders plans would create more wealth for poor blacks than any clinton plan.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:46:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 9:30:59 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Hyperbole. Have you ever considered how beneficial it would be for businesses to get from under the yolk of providing health care to their employees? Have you ever considered why the fiscal right never consider the anti competitiveness and lack of individuse choice caused by employer provider group health insurance schemes?

You have been sold economic untruths and propoganda. Bernie is challenging convention and most places analyzing his tax plan are not considering cost implications and savings to the household. IE not paying health insurance premiums.

I'm not a fan of single payer and would rather see individual mandated individual policies which the individual chooses which government kick in for premium supports based upon means testing. But one needs to recognize the fact that 4 of the last 5 Republicans supported keeping previous conditions mandates in play. That is absolutely amazing and would not have happened without Democratic leadership jamming obamacare through.

Go to what I wrote earlier on this topic of economics and ad hominem
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:55:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 8:48:53 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

That's a big "sometimes". Over the last several decades government spending has only increased. Do has it been improving? We are increasing spending on welfare, but more people are getting poor. Sanders tax plans are not sufficient enough to cover all the things he says he will do, and that's a fact.


2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

Brendan, I get what you are saying, but you are literally defying the purpose of labor with minimum wage laws. If I generate a company $10, then I should be paid $9.99 max (obviously an exaggeration) I do not deserve $15, because then the buisness would lose money, defeating the whole purpose of buisness. The Nordic countries do not even have minimum wage laws, but instead have unions negotiate the price with the employers, which is how it's supposed to work. Fighting for fair pay is not something I oppose, but a $15 minimum wage is the wrong way to do it. It doesn't even take the cost of living into factor.

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

How would increasing government make it the people's puppet? The only reliable puppet is one that doesn't do everything for you, and let's people make decisions for themselves.

Please respond with the points, it saves a lot of characters,
1) Actually his plan can be afforded. https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.motherjones.com...
https://asliceofbigpauly.files.wordpress.com...
This last one is a info graphic someone made, but it summarizes everything very well and provides credible citations

2) I think in the long run, the Danish model of union negotiations for wages is what we should strive for, however much of Denmark's economy is a cooperatively owned and a larger portion of the Danish economy is unionized, and minimum wage workers have almost no legal protections. They can be fired for trying to organize a union. That why the Fight for 15 and 15Now have two demands: $15 and a Union. Until we can get the union and democratize the economy, the danish wage system will remain out of reach.

3) That makes no sense. Puppets don't do things on there own. The government is a puppet. It can only do what its master wants it to do. Right now the puppet master is the wealthy elite and large corporations.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 9:59:40 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 7:31:44 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:29:28 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

Because he's anti-establishment, and most people that support anti-establishment candidates for the sake of being anti-establishment are too dumb to actually look at his fiscal policies.

Why doesn't everyone just understand that we need to get behind Trump? It's so simple. If you are someone who supports anti-establishment members for the sake of itself, then back the guy that can actually beat Hillary. I hope that once Hillary wins the nomination his support-base will hop onto the Trump train.

Hillary is the 2nd most hated candidate. All the Republicans had to do was back a moderately hated candidate like Cruz, but they decide to back the one guy who can't beat Hillary, and is the most hated candidate. TRUMP. Personally, I prefer Hillary over Trump.

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. Multiple polls show that Trump would beat Hillary. The fact that you'd prefer Hillary also tells me you haven't looked too deeply into her either. If you dislike corruption you need to understand that Hillary is the most corrupt out of them all. Look into who donates to her foundation, who she's gotten contributions from, her leadership record and failures. You should really look into these things before talking about voting for her over Trump.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/7/2016 10:01:21 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 9:55:52 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 8:48:53 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 8:39:28 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:30:01 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:24:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/7/2016 7:22:05 PM, Grizzly-Jones wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why they like Sanders, even though he has no knowledge of economics? I can understand on social issues, but Sander's fiscal policy is insane. INSANE.

What part of it do you think is insane?

http://www.valuewalk.com...

People think that the rich just keep the money, but they don't understand that alot of that goes into investing.

This exorbitant taxation will certainly discourage investment, and people will be left off with less money. This includes the poor.

His $15 minimum wage is nuts. Businesses will start to fire employees to keep others, because they won't make profit. A worker should be paid a little lower of how much profit he generates. The whole concept of minimum wage is outdated.

Sanders wants to get rid of corruption, but he also wants to expand it.... The bigger the government the more likely it will be corrupt. This is common sense.


1) So what happens with taxes once they are collected? Do they just sit in a closet? No, they are spent on other things. Sometimes they are used maliciously, but they can also be reinvested in the community.

That's a big "sometimes". Over the last several decades government spending has only increased. Do has it been improving? We are increasing spending on welfare, but more people are getting poor. Sanders tax plans are not sufficient enough to cover all the things he says he will do, and that's a fact.


2) So are profits all that matter? What about people? Furthermore if the minimum wage was tied to average worker productivity the wage would be more than $19. If you adjust the wage of inflation and productivity, the wage would be $15. Furthermore the Center on Budget and Policy priorities found that "Beyond simple supply and demand theory, increasing the minimum wage may also spur businesses to operate more efficiently and employees to work harder. "Employers may look for ways to increase productivity, such as setting higher performance standards for their employees or investing more in employee training."

Brendan, I get what you are saying, but you are literally defying the purpose of labor with minimum wage laws. If I generate a company $10, then I should be paid $9.99 max (obviously an exaggeration) I do not deserve $15, because then the buisness would lose money, defeating the whole purpose of buisness. The Nordic countries do not even have minimum wage laws, but instead have unions negotiate the price with the employers, which is how it's supposed to work. Fighting for fair pay is not something I oppose, but a $15 minimum wage is the wrong way to do it. It doesn't even take the cost of living into factor.

3) Um, I fail to see the cause and effect. By enhancing democratic controls on government corruption is held at bay. Government is simply a puppet, what matters is who's puppet. Right now its the puppet of larger corporations and the ultra rich, it needs to be the people's puppet.

How would increasing government make it the people's puppet? The only reliable puppet is one that doesn't do everything for you, and let's people make decisions for themselves.

Please respond with the points, it saves a lot of characters,
1) Actually his plan can be afforded. https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.motherjones.com...
https://asliceofbigpauly.files.wordpress.com...
This last one is a info graphic someone made, but it summarizes everything very well and provides credible citations

2) I think in the long run, the Danish model of union negotiations for wages is what we should strive for, however much of Denmark's economy is a cooperatively owned and a larger portion of the Danish economy is unionized, and minimum wage workers have almost no legal protections. They can be fired for trying to organize a union. That why the Fight for 15 and 15Now have two demands: $15 and a Union. Until we can get the union and democratize the economy, the danish wage system will remain out of reach.

3) That makes no sense. Puppets don't do things on there own. The government is a puppet. It can only do what its master wants it to do. Right now the puppet master is the wealthy elite and large corporations.

I find the saddest part of any discussion of Sanders is this idea that his proposals are so radical. Like single layer is new, never before seen craziness. Or that raising taxes is akin to mental illness.