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Would you make hate speech illegal?

FourTrouble
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3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.
Blade-of-Truth
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3/11/2016 8:50:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Absolutely subjective by its very nature. Ultimately it's any speech that is used to "bring someone down" in a derogatory manner, and is determined by our societal values which shift as frequently as the direction of the wind. Shaped and controlled by the "they". They deem it as hateful, and if you disagree then you're a bigot or racist.

How would you punish it?

I wouldn't. I despise the very notion of "hate speech". It cannot co-exist with "free speech". I also believe hate speech ignites valuable conversations that need to be had. Obviously this problem persists because we've yet to truly tackle it.
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mc9
Posts: 1,033
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3/11/2016 10:04:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:


How would you punish it?
No since it is a loose term, the government could use it to stop people from criticizing the government.
A good quote is very relevant

"If you don't believe in free speech for those you disagree with you don't believe in it at all" -Benjamin Franklin
janesix
Posts: 3,439
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3/11/2016 10:20:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 10:04:54 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:


How would you punish it?
No since it is a loose term, the government could use it to stop people from criticizing the government.
A good quote is very relevant

"If you don't believe in free speech for those you disagree with you don't believe in it at all" -Benjamin Franklin

+1
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/11/2016 10:27:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

So what benefit, in your view, is there to banning hate speech?

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

How would you go about banning it? Will you set up an online content monitoring agency for the purpose of identifying hate speech?

What if it's satirical? Will you create a government committee for the purpose of distinguishing satire from hate speech?

Who would be in charge of determining what hate speech is? Professors of psychology or psychology graduate students who are sympathetic to the #blacklivesmatter people? Radical feminists who believe that clapping is a microaggression? Who?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/11/2016 10:27:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 8:50:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Absolutely subjective by its very nature. Ultimately it's any speech that is used to "bring someone down" in a derogatory manner, and is determined by our societal values which shift as frequently as the direction of the wind. Shaped and controlled by the "they". They deem it as hateful, and if you disagree then you're a bigot or racist.

How would you punish it?

I wouldn't. I despise the very notion of "hate speech". It cannot co-exist with "free speech". I also believe hate speech ignites valuable conversations that need to be had. Obviously this problem persists because we've yet to truly tackle it.

That is a correct and reasonable perspective with which I can generally agree.
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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/11/2016 10:28:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

How would you punish it?

I'd punish anyone who punishes it. Why? Because there is a double standard on "hate speech" and liberals are 100% blind on the issue. For example, in parts of Europe it is illegal to say anything anti Islamic
But if a Muslim says something about killing homosexuals or females needing to cover up, there is no punishment. The Quran itself is hate speech against liberals and liberal principles, yet it's liberals who want to bring as many anti liberals as they can to the Eest. Of course, in Europe they see this group only wants to take over and administer sharia law as of the Quran's command, but they already let too many in. Now they want them out. Freedom of speech got snuffed out. The liberals are hell bent on destroying the West and muzzling the people trying to save their American rights.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/11/2016 10:28:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 10:04:54 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:


How would you punish it?
No since it is a loose term, the government could use it to stop people from criticizing the government.
A good quote is very relevant

"If you don't believe in free speech for those you disagree with you don't believe in it at all" -Benjamin Franklin

That is an exceptionally good quote. I think I may borrow it.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/11/2016 10:31:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 10:28:14 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

How would you punish it?

I'd punish anyone who punishes it. Why? Because there is a double standard on "hate speech" and liberals are 100% blind on the issue. For example, in parts of Europe it is illegal to say anything anti Islamic
But if a Muslim says something about killing homosexuals or females needing to cover up, there is no punishment. The Quran itself is hate speech against liberals and liberal principles, yet it's liberals who want to bring as many anti liberals as they can to the Eest. Of course, in Europe they see this group only wants to take over and administer sharia law as of the Quran's command, but they already let too many in. Now they want them out. Freedom of speech got snuffed out. The liberals are hell bent on destroying the West and muzzling the people trying to save their American rights.

You raise a very good point. Where is the line between "hate speech" and "culture."

Regulating hate speech really becomes one of those bemusing fault lines where the inherent hypocrisy of internationalism, multiculturalism, and other stupid postmodern liberal ideas comes to light.

If a brown, arabic, fundamentalist Muslim says that gays should be stoned to death, tolerating that becomes an act of multiculturalism; but if a white person said the same thing then it's "hate speech," and the very fact that postmodern liberal multiculturalists would make that distinction is itself an act of preferential racism.
Tsar of DDO
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/11/2016 11:09:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 10:31:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2016 10:28:14 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

How would you punish it?

I'd punish anyone who punishes it. Why? Because there is a double standard on "hate speech" and liberals are 100% blind on the issue. For example, in parts of Europe it is illegal to say anything anti Islamic
But if a Muslim says something about killing homosexuals or females needing to cover up, there is no punishment. The Quran itself is hate speech against liberals and liberal principles, yet it's liberals who want to bring as many anti liberals as they can to the Eest. Of course, in Europe they see this group only wants to take over and administer sharia law as of the Quran's command, but they already let too many in. Now they want them out. Freedom of speech got snuffed out. The liberals are hell bent on destroying the West and muzzling the people trying to save their American rights.

You raise a very good point. Where is the line between "hate speech" and "culture."

Regulating hate speech really becomes one of those bemusing fault lines where the inherent hypocrisy of internationalism, multiculturalism, and other stupid postmodern liberal ideas comes to light.

If a brown, arabic, fundamentalist Muslim says that gays should be stoned to death, tolerating that becomes an act of multiculturalism; but if a white person said the same thing then it's "hate speech," and the very fact that postmodern liberal multiculturalists would make that distinction is itself an act of preferential racism.

That's why Trump is getting so much support. The silent majority was told to shut up for so long that it finally decided to say "shut up" back. We got tired of being polite. Us being polite and shutting up allowed those who seek to destroy us a foothold, and people see it. Europe's in a mess because they muzzled up and the government clinched fee speech. You never muzzle hate speech. You muzzle harrassment but never free speech. Hate speech to one is not to the next. I find Southpark depictions of Jesus "hate speech", but liberals couldn't care less. So I can in the same breath say Muhammed was a mass murdering, lying, pedaphile SOB.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/11/2016 11:10:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 11:09:43 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 10:31:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/11/2016 10:28:14 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

How would you punish it?

I'd punish anyone who punishes it. Why? Because there is a double standard on "hate speech" and liberals are 100% blind on the issue. For example, in parts of Europe it is illegal to say anything anti Islamic
But if a Muslim says something about killing homosexuals or females needing to cover up, there is no punishment. The Quran itself is hate speech against liberals and liberal principles, yet it's liberals who want to bring as many anti liberals as they can to the Eest. Of course, in Europe they see this group only wants to take over and administer sharia law as of the Quran's command, but they already let too many in. Now they want them out. Freedom of speech got snuffed out. The liberals are hell bent on destroying the West and muzzling the people trying to save their American rights.

You raise a very good point. Where is the line between "hate speech" and "culture."

Regulating hate speech really becomes one of those bemusing fault lines where the inherent hypocrisy of internationalism, multiculturalism, and other stupid postmodern liberal ideas comes to light.

If a brown, arabic, fundamentalist Muslim says that gays should be stoned to death, tolerating that becomes an act of multiculturalism; but if a white person said the same thing then it's "hate speech," and the very fact that postmodern liberal multiculturalists would make that distinction is itself an act of preferential racism.

That's why Trump is getting so much support. The silent majority was told to shut up for so long that it finally decided to say "shut up" back. We got tired of being polite. Us being polite and shutting up allowed those who seek to destroy us a foothold, and people see it. Europe's in a mess because they muzzled up and the government clinched fee speech. You never muzzle hate speech. You muzzle harrassment but never free speech. Hate speech to one is not to the next. I find Southpark depictions of Jesus "hate speech", but liberals couldn't care less. So I can in the same breath say Muhammed was a mass murdering, lying, pedaphile SOB.

You're exactly right, and that's why I have predicted since Trump announced his candidacy that he would win the Republican nomination.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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3/12/2016 12:40:37 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I have mixed feelings on the question.
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/12/2016 12:51:38 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

I don't recognize the concept.

How would you punish it?

I wouldn't. If I disagree with speech, I argue against it. If argument proves futile, and I find these ideas to be legitimately dangerous, I erode the credibility of the speaker in the eyes of those who respect him.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/12/2016 12:55:04 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:51:38 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

I don't recognize the concept.

How would you punish it?

I wouldn't. If I disagree with speech, I argue against it. If argument proves futile, and I find these ideas to be legitimately dangerous, I erode the credibility of the speaker in the eyes of those who respect him.

If only more people could be like you.
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YYW
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3/12/2016 12:56:05 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I want to be clear: those in America who call for the banning of certain kinds of speech are the most unamerican people who exist in this country.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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3/12/2016 1:02:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I'm going to explain why tulle's arguments here are profoundly idiotic at a point:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm leaving this here to remind myself.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/12/2016 1:09:23 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
But please, people who would make hate speech illegal.... make the case. Tell me why you think it should be illegal. Tell me how you'd do it.
Tsar of DDO
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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3/12/2016 1:14:03 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

I think inciting violence is the key issue
lamerde
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3/12/2016 1:23:05 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:02:55 AM, YYW wrote:
I'm going to explain why tulle's arguments here are profoundly idiotic at a point:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm leaving this here to remind myself.

lol If anyone has any points they would like me to address, they will have to ask me directly because I won't be addressing this at all.
Why I ignore YYW:
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http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
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3/12/2016 1:43:38 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:23:05 AM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:55 AM, YYW wrote:
I'm going to explain why tulle's arguments here are profoundly idiotic at a point:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm leaving this here to remind myself.

lol If anyone has any points they would like me to address, they will have to ask me directly because I won't be addressing this at all.

Lol you don't have to say anything while I know you have opinions you're not really competent to talk about this
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,241
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3/12/2016 1:55:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:43:38 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:23:05 AM, lamerde wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:55 AM, YYW wrote:
I'm going to explain why tulle's arguments here are profoundly idiotic at a point:

http://www.debate.org...

I'm leaving this here to remind myself.

lol If anyone has any points they would like me to address, they will have to ask me directly because I won't be addressing this at all.

Lol you don't have to say anything while I know you have opinions you're not really competent to talk about this

I am against policing intentions and thoughts.
YYW
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3/12/2016 2:00:19 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:14:03 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

I think inciting violence is the key issue

Speech does not "incite" violence.
Tsar of DDO
dylancatlow
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3/12/2016 2:17:21 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 2:00:19 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:14:03 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

I think inciting violence is the key issue

Speech does not "incite" violence.

I don't think the quote in your signature is real by the way. Chomsky has a very famous quote that's similar, which might be where you got it from: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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3/12/2016 2:20:36 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 2:00:19 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:14:03 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

I think inciting violence is the key issue

Speech does not "incite" violence.

Lmao...precisely why Marc Antony's speeh is widely derided as the most unrealistic depiction of human nature in all of Shakespeare.

Thanks for that nugget of wisdom lol
YYW
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3/12/2016 2:23:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 2:17:21 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/12/2016 2:00:19 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:14:03 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

I think inciting violence is the key issue

Speech does not "incite" violence.

I don't think the quote in your signature is real by the way. Chomsky has a very famous quote that's similar, which might be where you got it from: "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

Chomsky may well have said it, and I agree with it. I'm a big fan of his ideas.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,254
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3/12/2016 2:37:03 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 2:20:36 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/12/2016 2:00:19 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:14:03 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:58:49 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 3/11/2016 7:26:27 PM, YYW wrote:
What is hate speech?

Defining hate speech is a tricky problem. I don't think there is a generally accepted account of what hate speech "is." It's a slippery category of speech; one person's hate speech might be another person's deeply held religious belief. I suppose we could define it narrowly, as any words that directly incite violence against a specific group of people, although we already criminalize that sort of speech, and it's not really that interest. Or we could define it more broadly to include words that demean the dignity of specific groups of people.

How would you punish it?

Depends how we define it. And, of course, there's going to be different categories of hate speech with different effects for which we would want different punishments. I don't have a specific set of regulations in mind beyond knowing that I think hate speech should generally be banned.

I think inciting violence is the key issue

Speech does not "incite" violence.

Lmao...precisely why Marc Antony's speeh is widely derided as the most unrealistic depiction of human nature in all of Shakespeare.

Thanks for that nugget of wisdom lol

Ok... then how does speech "incite" violence? Does it overwhelm the senses? Does it divest a person of their reason? Does it cause a person to become so overwhelmed with passion that they can't help but do some act of violence?
Tsar of DDO