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Abortion - AMA.

TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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3/12/2016 12:23:51 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Do you think an abortion is ever ok? Such as in situations like if the mother
s life is threatened from her pregnancy, or in cases of rape?
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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3/12/2016 12:28:03 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

Do you believe a fertilized egg deserves equal rights to an adult human?

If yes, why?
Torton
Posts: 988
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3/12/2016 12:30:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Since from what I've seen, you're pretty solidly pro-choice, is there any situation or instance in which you think abortion isn't ok?
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,839
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3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,839
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3/12/2016 1:19:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.

http://new2.fjcdn.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 1:29:34 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:19:47 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.

http://new2.fjcdn.com...

I am laying my heart bear and you joke. Fu*c you.
TBR
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3/12/2016 1:31:04 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:23:51 AM, janesix wrote:
Do you think an abortion is ever ok? Such as in situations like if the mother
s life is threatened from her pregnancy, or in cases of rape?

Abortion is always OK. It is completely in the realm of woman's right to control her body.
TBR
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3/12/2016 1:32:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:28:03 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

Do you believe a fertilized egg deserves equal rights to an adult human?

If yes, why?

No. Abortion is the ONLY place where we place the rights of body over the right to kill. You can defend yourself with deadly force for even perceived threat.
TBR
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3/12/2016 1:33:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:30:41 AM, Torton wrote:
Since from what I've seen, you're pretty solidly pro-choice, is there any situation or instance in which you think abortion isn't ok?

Well... No. A woman's right to choose is absolute. I can think of situations where I would not advise, but that is advise. It is NOT my body, not my choice.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,839
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3/12/2016 1:50:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:29:34 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:19:47 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.

http://new2.fjcdn.com...

I am laying my heart bear and you joke. Fu*c you.

That hostility there is completely uncalled for.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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3/12/2016 2:18:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:33:57 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:30:41 AM, Torton wrote:
Since from what I've seen, you're pretty solidly pro-choice, is there any situation or instance in which you think abortion isn't ok?

Well... No. A woman's right to choose is absolute. I can think of situations where I would not advise, but that is advise. It is NOT my body, not my choice.

I am Pro choice (at least in the early stages), I am of the view that if either sides tries an absolute position they can't justify it.

If as you say a womans right is absolute, if a woman is 10 mins before about to give birth does she still have a right to an abortion in your view ?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 2:46:22 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:50:52 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:29:34 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:19:47 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.

http://new2.fjcdn.com...

I am laying my heart bear and you joke. Fu*c you.

That hostility there is completely uncalled for.

As well as the dismissive attitude, Bring your real questions or just fu*k the thll ff.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,839
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3/12/2016 2:55:10 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 2:46:22 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:50:52 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:29:34 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:19:47 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.

http://new2.fjcdn.com...

I am laying my heart bear and you joke. Fu*c you.

That hostility there is completely uncalled for.

As well as the dismissive attitude, Bring your real questions or just fu*k the thll ff.

Dismissive attitude? I'm pointing out that the kind of hostile behavior you're displaying is uncharacteristic and inappropriate, Toby. You getting this "heated" over something as insignificant as this is concerning. Have some self-control. Have you been drinking? Your grammar is off and your behavior is odd.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 3:34:39 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 2:55:10 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 2:46:22 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:50:52 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:29:34 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:19:47 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:10:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 1:02:42 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What made you decide to get an abortion?

I, a man, have never had an abortion. However, my girlfriend at 19 YO was pregnant. We loved each-other, we are close enough to this day. We both knew that the timing was wrong. She was the only one to make the decision, I could only support her, and I did. I was in the room for the abortion (accommodation made from family connection) and we both grieved the process while knowing that the choice was right.

We look back knowing that we would have made a child we could both love, but both knowing that the choice was good for us and the child we never had.

http://new2.fjcdn.com...

I am laying my heart bear and you joke. Fu*c you.

That hostility there is completely uncalled for.

As well as the dismissive attitude, Bring your real questions or just fu*k the thll ff.

Dismissive attitude? I'm pointing out that the kind of hostile behavior you're displaying is uncharacteristic and inappropriate, Toby. You getting this "heated" over something as insignificant as this is concerning. Have some self-control. Have you been drinking? Your grammar is off and your behavior is odd.

I am asking for real response. I am telling all that I will respond. That is all I will promise. If you insist on being argumentative, I will respond in kind.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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3/12/2016 9:16:48 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:32:28 AM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:28:03 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

Do you believe a fertilized egg deserves equal rights to an adult human?

If yes, why?

No. Abortion is the ONLY place where we place the rights of body over the right to kill. You can defend yourself with deadly force for even perceived threat.

Agree.
TBR
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3/12/2016 3:51:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 1:41:38 AM, TheFlex wrote:
What do you think, debate wise, is the best defense for the pro-life stance?

Concede that a fetus is alive and human. Pointless bickering otherwise. It comes down to a woman's right to control her own body.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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3/12/2016 9:20:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

Do you think that a would be father has absolutely no say in a decision regarding abortion?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
TBR
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3/12/2016 9:27:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 9:20:31 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

Do you think that a would be father has absolutely no say in a decision regarding abortion?

His only "say" is up to the woman to start with.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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3/12/2016 9:30:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What is your stance on late term abortions?
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 9:32:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 9:30:17 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What is your stance on late term abortions?

Legal and rare. The number of late term abortions that are not medical necessary is tiny.

Increased access, coverage in insurance plans etc. Reduce the need.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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3/12/2016 9:34:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 9:32:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 9:30:17 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What is your stance on late term abortions?

Legal and rare. The number of late term abortions that are not medical necessary is tiny.

Increased access, coverage in insurance plans etc. Reduce the need.

Do you think an abortion should be performed in a case of incest?
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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3/12/2016 9:46:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

I know this is your AMA, but I thought I give my view. I consider myself pro-life 90% of the time when it comes to my family . I don't really buy the "I'm just no ready" excuse because while a fetus might not be a human, it certainly is life, and looking at parents who would love children and are unable to have any, it would make me feel irresponsible to let it an abortion happen. I do believe in some cases an abortion is justified if it involves teenage pregnancy, financial difficulty etc..

However politically speaking, I'm pro choice, because I have no say on other people's family problems, therefore they are free to do as they wish.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/12/2016 9:51:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 9:34:16 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 3/12/2016 9:32:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/12/2016 9:30:17 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 3/12/2016 12:09:47 AM, TBR wrote:
I am not putting this out as a debate on abortion, but as a honest open discussion between me and anyone about abortion. Ask me anything. Do I think a fetus is "alive" - yes. Do I think an embryo is human - yes. Ask, and I will reply.

What is your stance on late term abortions?

Legal and rare. The number of late term abortions that are not medical necessary is tiny.

Increased access, coverage in insurance plans etc. Reduce the need.

Do you think an abortion should be performed in a case of incest?

If the woman wants an abortion, yes.
vortex86
Posts: 559
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3/13/2016 4:01:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
As Abortion is really a non issue politically (this election might be slightly different with the passing of Scalia). However, how do you think we realistically combat unwanted pregnancies and reduce teen pregnancies.

I would say that access to information regarding emergency contraception would be a good starting point. Only 16/50 states require hospitals to give information to patients that have been sexually assaulted. The argument for abortion because of rape/incest would be diminished if this were to change. I would argue that an abstinence only mentality does not reduce teen pregnancies and obviously alternative education is required.

You state that you believe an embryo is a human. Then why would you not advocate for it's civil rights?

I think this is debatable about whether or not an embryo is considered a human. However, I would argue that viability at minimum is a true merit of whether or not a fetus reaches human status, as it would survive on its own outside the womb at this point. That figure is debatable and a legal precedent for this in roe vs wade 24-28 week mark. This figure has continued to change based on technology.

Excuse my hypothetical, but one day what if viability was 0 weeks. Wouldn't that drastically change the argument?
TBR
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3/13/2016 4:12:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 4:01:48 PM, vortex86 wrote:
As Abortion is really a non issue politically (this election might be slightly different with the passing of Scalia). However, how do you think we realistically combat unwanted pregnancies and reduce teen pregnancies.

The efforts of pro-choice have been the most successful in reducing the very thing, abortion, that pro-life hates so much. Increased access to education, contraception AND abortion.


I would say that access to information regarding emergency contraception would be a good starting point. Only 16/50 states require hospitals to give information to patients that have been sexually assaulted. The argument for abortion because of rape/incest would be diminished if this were to change. I would argue that an abstinence only mentality does not reduce teen pregnancies and obviously alternative education is required.

You state that you believe an embryo is a human. Then why would you not advocate for it's civil rights?

The embro is a human embryo. In the case of abortion, pro-life wants to grant "grater" rights to a embryo over the woman's rights. This, as I have said, is the only place we seem to accept this concept at all! We kill every day - legally and morally.


I think this is debatable about whether or not an embryo is considered a human. However, I would argue that viability at minimum is a true merit of whether or not a fetus reaches human status, as it would survive on its own outside the womb at this point. That figure is debatable and a legal precedent for this in roe vs wade 24-28 week mark. This figure has continued to change based on technology.

The guidelines in Row were (are) sane. Lets no forget, the late term abortion that so many cry and screen about is an infinitesimal amount of all abortions, and of those, most are for medical reasons.


Excuse my hypothetical, but one day what if viability was 0 weeks. Wouldn't that drastically change the argument?

Yes.
vortex86
Posts: 559
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3/13/2016 4:22:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 4:12:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/13/2016 4:01:48 PM, vortex86 wrote:
As Abortion is really a non issue politically (this election might be slightly different with the passing of Scalia). However, how do you think we realistically combat unwanted pregnancies and reduce teen pregnancies.

The efforts of pro-choice have been the most successful in reducing the very thing, abortion, that pro-life hates so much. Increased access to education, contraception AND abortion.


I would say that access to information regarding emergency contraception would be a good starting point. Only 16/50 states require hospitals to give information to patients that have been sexually assaulted. The argument for abortion because of rape/incest would be diminished if this were to change. I would argue that an abstinence only mentality does not reduce teen pregnancies and obviously alternative education is required.

You state that you believe an embryo is a human. Then why would you not advocate for it's civil rights?

The embryo is a human embryo. In the case of abortion, pro-life wants to grant "grater" rights to a embryo over the woman's rights. This, as I have said, is the only place we seem to accept this concept at all! We kill every day - legally and morally.

Greater rights? I would argue that they are advocating for equal rights. The right to live. What rights are being taken away from a woman if she were to give birth vs abort? If there is a medical issue attributed to the embryo that's a different situation. You mentioned infinitesimal amounts, these account for 5-6% of all pregnancies.

I think this is debatable about whether or not an embryo is considered a human. However, I would argue that viability at minimum is a true merit of whether or not a fetus reaches human status, as it would survive on its own outside the womb at this point. That figure is debatable and a legal precedent for this in roe vs wade 24-28 week mark. This figure has continued to change based on technology.

The guidelines in Row were (are) sane. Lets no forget, the late term abortion that so many cry and screen about is an infinitesimal amount of all abortions, and of those, most are for medical reasons.



Excuse my hypothetical, but one day what if viability was 0 weeks. Wouldn't that drastically change the argument?

Yes.

While it is an "infinitesimal amount" isn't a common argument for gun control, "if it could save just one life".

I would argue that fetal viability should be something a doctor decides not a state legislature (some states also subscribe to this).

We agree that fetal viability is sound in roe vs wade decision, but in my hypothetical I propose a difference that is an extreme example of technology, but I think it is something that should be reevaluated with upcoming technological advancements. Would you not agree?