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Do you support contraceptive rights?

PetersSmith
Posts: 5,860
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4/1/2016 1:16:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Griswold v. Connecticut
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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4/1/2016 1:18:56 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

+1
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 1:20:23 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:16:55 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Griswold v. Connecticut
Tell me about the case?
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,860
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4/1/2016 1:21:51 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:20:23 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:16:55 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Griswold v. Connecticut
Tell me about the case?

Right to privacy and pretty much right to birth control.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 1:24:44 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:21:51 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:20:23 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:16:55 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Griswold v. Connecticut
Tell me about the case?

Right to privacy and pretty much right to birth control.

Awesome sauce. Thank you for telling me.
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.

That's not trolling
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
swindler
Posts: 23
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4/1/2016 2:43:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
The only people who disagree with you are likely to be a small percentage of religious fundamentalists and another extremely small number of mentally challenged people.
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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4/1/2016 3:23:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Yep, have children you can't afford and call it a grace from God. Makes a whole lot of sense.
ILoveSitarMusic
Posts: 225
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4/1/2016 3:46:02 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:23:13 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Yep, have children you can't afford and call it a grace from God. Makes a whole lot of sense.

I know, right?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?


Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Even if it is an abuse, does abuse always mean immoral ?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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4/1/2016 6:46:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?

Because Natural Law is true law. Natural Law is the basis of our rights, and our recourse to immoral laws. Natural Law is in keeping with how God/Nature has created/evolved us. To deny Natural Law is to deny our very natures.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Natural Law grounds morality in general, and sexual morality in particular, in human nature. The basic idea is that what is good of a thing is determined by the ends or purposes for the sake of which its natural faculties exist.

Even if it is an abuse, does abuse always mean immoral ?

Pretty much. I believe that the concept of abuse in the context humans, their faculties and their interpersonal dealing implies implicit immorality.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/1/2016 6:48:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 6:46:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:14:07 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:01:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:45:18 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:33:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:24:48 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 2:17:17 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:30:46 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:27:12 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:26:01 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:21:55 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/1/2016 1:09:37 AM, ILoveSitarMusic wrote:
I do. I think people have the right to use whatever contraception they want.

Lmao, people actually disagree with you? That's pathetic

No trolling. Debate the facts or leave.
Yes or no: Are you going to answer my question?
That's not trolling
Yes or no: Do you support contraceptive rights?

People should have the right to use contraceptives, in pretty sure no one intelligent disagrees
I have run across people who disagree, that is why I asked.

Well, one it seems you are a Christian. That will account for some. Two, I don't know what country you are in, but... Well, that would be the other.
Religion and nationality have nothing to do with this.

I would agree that Catholics and religious fundamentalist are the primary group against artificial/pharmaceutical contraceptive practices.
Yeah, they are crazy.

Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?

Because Natural Law is true law. Natural Law is the basis of our rights, and our recourse to immoral laws. Natural Law is in keeping with how God/Nature has created/evolved us. To deny Natural Law is to deny our very natures.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Natural Law grounds morality in general, and sexual morality in particular, in human nature. The basic idea is that what is good of a thing is determined by the ends or purposes for the sake of which its natural faculties exist.

What it the ends/purpose of the ebola virus ? according to this natural law frame work ?

Even if it is an abuse, does abuse always mean immoral ?

Pretty much. I believe that the concept of abuse in the context humans, their faculties and their interpersonal dealing implies implicit immorality.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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4/1/2016 7:02:59 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 6:48:47 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:46:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
<snip>
Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?

Because Natural Law is true law. Natural Law is the basis of our rights, and our recourse to immoral laws. Natural Law is in keeping with how God/Nature has created/evolved us. To deny Natural Law is to deny our very natures.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Natural Law grounds morality in general, and sexual morality in particular, in human nature. The basic idea is that what is good of a thing is determined by the ends or purposes for the sake of which its natural faculties exist.

What it the ends/purpose of the ebola virus ? according to this natural law frame work ?

Bolded above. Ebola has no moral value. However, viruses act according to their nature. Animals act according to their nature through instinct. So are humans supposed to.

As for the "purpose" of viruses in nature, (you have to accept that there is purpose to life in the first place) in a broader sense they strengthen the species and they are thought to be a factor in evolution. In the narrow sense, life varies greatly and all of it operates according to its nature to propagate itself.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/1/2016 7:13:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:02:59 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:48:47 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:46:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
<snip>
Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?

Because Natural Law is true law. Natural Law is the basis of our rights, and our recourse to immoral laws. Natural Law is in keeping with how God/Nature has created/evolved us. To deny Natural Law is to deny our very natures.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Natural Law grounds morality in general, and sexual morality in particular, in human nature. The basic idea is that what is good of a thing is determined by the ends or purposes for the sake of which its natural faculties exist.

What it the ends/purpose of the ebola virus ? according to this natural law frame work ?

Bolded above. Ebola has no moral value. However, viruses act according to their nature. Animals act according to their nature through instinct. So are humans supposed to.

As for the "purpose" of viruses in nature, (you have to accept that there is purpose to life in the first place) in a broader sense they strengthen the species and they are thought to be a factor in evolution. In the narrow sense, life varies greatly and all of it operates according to its nature to propagate itself.

Here is what is p*ssing me off, and it is something that has p*ssed me off for those who use natural law for years.

They are very good at claiming in the name of natural law that X is good, or the purpose of Y is X, or that such and such purpose is not to what ever.

Don't just tell me the conclusion, explain to me the underlying reasoning.

Lets go back to sex. How do you determine what its purpose is ? , just don't assert oh the purpose of sex is blah blah blah, tell me the underlying reasoning that you use to get to such a conclusion.

Is it sex can lead to babies therefore the purpose of sex is babies ? If not, explain reasoning that gets you to the conclusion that the purpose of sex is x,y,z.
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/1/2016 7:27:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Yee
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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4/1/2016 7:48:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:13:20 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:02:59 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:48:47 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:46:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
<snip>
Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?

Because Natural Law is true law. Natural Law is the basis of our rights, and our recourse to immoral laws. Natural Law is in keeping with how God/Nature has created/evolved us. To deny Natural Law is to deny our very natures.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Natural Law grounds morality in general, and sexual morality in particular, in human nature. The basic idea is that what is good of a thing is determined by the ends or purposes for the sake of which its natural faculties exist.

What it the ends/purpose of the ebola virus ? according to this natural law frame work ?

Bolded above. Ebola has no moral value. However, viruses act according to their nature. Animals act according to their nature through instinct. So are humans supposed to.

As for the "purpose" of viruses in nature, (you have to accept that there is purpose to life in the first place) in a broader sense they strengthen the species and they are thought to be a factor in evolution. In the narrow sense, life varies greatly and all of it operates according to its nature to propagate itself.

Here is what is p*ssing me off, and it is something that has p*ssed me off for those who use natural law for years.

They are very good at claiming in the name of natural law that X is good, or the purpose of Y is X, or that such and such purpose is not to what ever.

Don't just tell me the conclusion, explain to me the underlying reasoning.

Lets go back to sex. How do you determine what its purpose is ? , just don't assert oh the purpose of sex is blah blah blah, tell me the underlying reasoning that you use to get to such a conclusion.

Is it sex can lead to babies therefore the purpose of sex is babies ? If not, explain reasoning that gets you to the conclusion that the purpose of sex is x,y,z.

Very well. What makes more sense - a part of the body which gave intense pleasure for no reason developed sexual organs, or sexual organs that developed pleasurable sensation to encourage the organism to engage in sex?

I think it is pretty obvious that we have pleasurable sensations to strongly encourage us to engage in sexual relations. Additionally, there is no reason that our sexual organs would be shaped the way they are except for the purpose of stimulation and successful reproduction after copulating. Additionally, the greatest pleasure for the male is arrived at when the reproductive cells are released. Everything about sex obviously is intended to focus on reproduction. This is true for all creatures that reproduce via sexual reproduction.

There's probably much more on this, but I think that is enough to make the point.

Now there is an additional aspect for humans. Unlike other animals, our young are completely dependent at birth and have no effective mobility for an extended period of time. Additionally, our time until we are able to function independently as adults of the species. Thus human mothers need to be much more hands on for longer than other animals. Nature has compensated for this by having sex create emotional attachments between people. How do we know this? The fact that every culture has some form of marriage that recognizes couples as exclusive sexual partners. We know that breaking of this sexual union causes people to have extreme emotional reactions including, anger, jealously, depression, etc... These are just the opposite of what people tend to experience with their sexual partners.

This causes the men to be around to provide for and protect the family. It also enables the children to be exposed to the personal dynamics of the masculine and feminine so that they can form successful bonds when they mature into adults.

So in a very brief and casual means, this is why we know that sex has 2 purposes. It is about procreation and union.

Hope that helps.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/1/2016 8:41:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:48:15 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:13:20 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:02:59 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:48:47 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:46:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:31:25 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:27:53 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:18:11 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 6:11:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
<snip>
Well I suppose that I should comment since I've just been called crazy...

While I would argue that all forms of artificial contraception are immoral, I would only say that you have no right to contraceptives that can act as abortifacients. Wrongly interfering with the reproductive nature of the act is different than something that actively results in the death of another human.

Okey St Thomas I'll bite.

Why do you think you have the justification to claim that using contraception eg condoms is immoral ?

Natural Law - same as I argued in our abortion debate.

Why should I care what natural law asserts ?

Because Natural Law is true law. Natural Law is the basis of our rights, and our recourse to immoral laws. Natural Law is in keeping with how God/Nature has created/evolved us. To deny Natural Law is to deny our very natures.

Sexual activity is both procreative and unitive. To engage in sex while intentionally frustrating either of the two aspects is an abuse of the nature of the action.

How do you determine if something is an abuse of nature ? Is there an underlying reasoning ? or do we get to make it up as we go along ?

Natural Law grounds morality in general, and sexual morality in particular, in human nature. The basic idea is that what is good of a thing is determined by the ends or purposes for the sake of which its natural faculties exist.

What it the ends/purpose of the ebola virus ? according to this natural law frame work ?

Bolded above. Ebola has no moral value. However, viruses act according to their nature. Animals act according to their nature through instinct. So are humans supposed to.

As for the "purpose" of viruses in nature, (you have to accept that there is purpose to life in the first place) in a broader sense they strengthen the species and they are thought to be a factor in evolution. In the narrow sense, life varies greatly and all of it operates according to its nature to propagate itself.

Here is what is p*ssing me off, and it is something that has p*ssed me off for those who use natural law for years.

They are very good at claiming in the name of natural law that X is good, or the purpose of Y is X, or that such and such purpose is not to what ever.

Don't just tell me the conclusion, explain to me the underlying reasoning.

Lets go back to sex. How do you determine what its purpose is ? , just don't assert oh the purpose of sex is blah blah blah, tell me the underlying reasoning that you use to get to such a conclusion.

Is it sex can lead to babies therefore the purpose of sex is babies ? If not, explain reasoning that gets you to the conclusion that the purpose of sex is x,y,z.

Very well. What makes more sense - a part of the body which gave intense pleasure for no reason developed sexual organs, or sexual organs that developed pleasurable sensation to encourage the organism to engage in sex?

I think it is pretty obvious that we have pleasurable sensations to strongly encourage us to engage in sexual relations. Additionally, there is no reason that our sexual organs would be shaped the way they are except for the purpose of stimulation and successful reproduction after copulating. Additionally, the greatest pleasure for the male is arrived at when the reproductive cells are released. Everything about sex obviously is intended to focus on reproduction. This is true for all creatures that reproduce via sexual reproduction.

There's probably much more on this, but I think that is enough to make the point.

Now there is an additional aspect for humans. Unlike other animals, our young are completely dependent at birth and have no effective mobility for an extended period of time. Additionally, our time until we are able to function independently as adults of the species. Thus human mothers need to be much more hands on for longer than other animals. Nature has compensated for this by having sex create emotional attachments between people. How do we know this? The fact that every culture has some form of marriage that recognizes couples as exclusive sexual partners. We know that breaking of this sexual union causes people to have extreme emotional reactions including, anger, jealously, depression, etc... These are just the opposite of what people tend to experience with their sexual partners.

This causes the men to be around to provide for and protect the family. It also enables the children to be exposed to the personal dynamics of the masculine and feminine so that they can form successful bonds when they mature into adults.

So in a very brief and casual means, this is why we know that sex has 2 purposes. It is about procreation and union.

Hope that helps.

It's obvious to me that condemn use is not immoral.

Hey, if that kind of rational is good enough for you, it's good enough for me.

It's obvious that exposing people to pregnancy every time they engage in sex is a very bad idea.

I mean, it's just obvious right ?