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Melting Pot vs Mosaic

vortex86
Posts: 570
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4/2/2016 2:12:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
They both have their appeals as far as descriptions. A mosaic is scattered different pieces that form an appealing picture in the end. Melting pot is everything thrown together and melted to form one new mixed object. A mosaic still has divisions of pieces, which you could say is the retaining of one's identity of their origin and still help to form the big picture that is America. Perhaps the grout that they have in common could be national pride holding them all together.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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4/3/2016 12:36:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 2:12:00 PM, vortex86 wrote:
They both have their appeals as far as descriptions. A mosaic is scattered different pieces that form an appealing picture in the end. Melting pot is everything thrown together and melted to form one new mixed object. A mosaic still has divisions of pieces, which you could say is the retaining of one's identity of their origin and still help to form the big picture that is America. Perhaps the grout that they have in common could be national pride holding them all together.

Personally I feel a melting pot is much better, because it does keep the country a bit unified. The problem with a mosasic, is that it allows people to keep their own culture (not saying that's entirely bad), but some cultures are just fundamentally incompatible with American values (probably know what I'm talking about) this leads to a lot of problems in the long run. Look at Europe if you want to know what I'm talking about .
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/3/2016 1:34:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

It is an interesting topic, and one that I am of two minds generally.

If you just ask me what I want, what I think is "best" I would say "melting pot" without even blinking. The shared culture that has come out of this nasty hodgepodge is a wonderful thing. I could write too much to read about how much this is desirable to ME, but then....

It is absolutely none of my business what people choose to do. If they want to NOT loose their "culture" whatever that may be, who am I to attempt to force them? On what grounds do I do that?

Me, my "culture" for what it is is the "winning" culture in the US. It sure is easy for me to sit back and say "come on board, lots of room" and accept all that might want to come as close to MY type as possible. So, my position of melting pot is both selfish and lazy on my part. It is what I want, what I think is better for the country, but in the end, highly influenced by my own wishes.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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4/3/2016 1:40:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 1:34:41 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

It is an interesting topic, and one that I am of two minds generally.

If you just ask me what I want, what I think is "best" I would say "melting pot" without even blinking. The shared culture that has come out of this nasty hodgepodge is a wonderful thing. I could write too much to read about how much this is desirable to ME, but then....

It is absolutely none of my business what people choose to do. If they want to NOT loose their "culture" whatever that may be, who am I to attempt to force them? On what grounds do I do that?

I agree, but I do find some cultures problematic to everybody around them.


Me, my "culture" for what it is is the "winning" culture in the US. It sure is easy for me to sit back and say "come on board, lots of room" and accept all that might want to come as close to MY type as possible. So, my position of melting pot is both selfish and lazy on my part. It is what I want, what I think is better for the country, but in the end, highly influenced by my own wishes.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/3/2016 2:06:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 1:40:23 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:34:41 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

It is an interesting topic, and one that I am of two minds generally.

If you just ask me what I want, what I think is "best" I would say "melting pot" without even blinking. The shared culture that has come out of this nasty hodgepodge is a wonderful thing. I could write too much to read about how much this is desirable to ME, but then....

It is absolutely none of my business what people choose to do. If they want to NOT loose their "culture" whatever that may be, who am I to attempt to force them? On what grounds do I do that?

I agree, but I do find some cultures problematic to everybody around them.


Me, my "culture" for what it is is the "winning" culture in the US. It sure is easy for me to sit back and say "come on board, lots of room" and accept all that might want to come as close to MY type as possible. So, my position of melting pot is both selfish and lazy on my part. It is what I want, what I think is better for the country, but in the end, highly influenced by my own wishes.

Let"s cut through some of the noise. At this point we are talking primarily about Middle-east Islamic culture. If a German immigrates, his culture has been integrated (homogenized) so much that something that is called as American as "hot dogs and apple pie" is really from his own damn country. Bastardize as they may be, we have accepted and Americanized things as unique as Chinese and French cultures.

So what is it about Islamic cultures that we are stumbling on. Well, for me I know that it is not necessarily just religion - I hate their religion only a little more than Christianity (well, a lot more, but...).

I don' t know... What is the problem? Open for discussion.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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4/3/2016 9:14:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 2:06:46 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:40:23 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:34:41 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

It is an interesting topic, and one that I am of two minds generally.

If you just ask me what I want, what I think is "best" I would say "melting pot" without even blinking. The shared culture that has come out of this nasty hodgepodge is a wonderful thing. I could write too much to read about how much this is desirable to ME, but then....

It is absolutely none of my business what people choose to do. If they want to NOT loose their "culture" whatever that may be, who am I to attempt to force them? On what grounds do I do that?

I agree, but I do find some cultures problematic to everybody around them.


Me, my "culture" for what it is is the "winning" culture in the US. It sure is easy for me to sit back and say "come on board, lots of room" and accept all that might want to come as close to MY type as possible. So, my position of melting pot is both selfish and lazy on my part. It is what I want, what I think is better for the country, but in the end, highly influenced by my own wishes.

Let"s cut through some of the noise. At this point we are talking primarily about Middle-east Islamic culture. If a German immigrates, his culture has been integrated (homogenized) so much that something that is called as American as "hot dogs and apple pie" is really from his own damn country. Bastardize as they may be, we have accepted and Americanized things as unique as Chinese and French cultures.

So what is it about Islamic cultures that we are stumbling on. Well, for me I know that it is not necessarily just religion - I hate their religion only a little more than Christianity (well, a lot more, but...).

I don' t know... What is the problem? Open for discussion.

My problem is their very hostile and aggressive nature. Their culture undoubtedly has a lot to do with their religion, and it largely influences their behavior. At my school, muslims had protested in the front foyer, for a praying room and special recognition to excuse them from school event during praying time. The poor principal at the time had no choice but to agree to these guys, because these guys represent about 60% of my school population. Every Friday, they take up the gym floor, and that is where they host their prayer. I certainly consider this some form of culture, because it's not just my school but schools around us, it's very much culture like.

Another thing is they have actual "muslim clubs" where muslims are only allowed to join! I remember seeing the flyer and I was just so shocked. I wish I had taken a picture to show everybody but this kind of message they give is simply what I consider annoying.

So, praying, muslim clubs, special recognition are somethings I find incredibly annoying.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/3/2016 9:33:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 9:14:30 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:06:46 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:40:23 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:34:41 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

It is an interesting topic, and one that I am of two minds generally.

If you just ask me what I want, what I think is "best" I would say "melting pot" without even blinking. The shared culture that has come out of this nasty hodgepodge is a wonderful thing. I could write too much to read about how much this is desirable to ME, but then....

It is absolutely none of my business what people choose to do. If they want to NOT loose their "culture" whatever that may be, who am I to attempt to force them? On what grounds do I do that?

I agree, but I do find some cultures problematic to everybody around them.


Me, my "culture" for what it is is the "winning" culture in the US. It sure is easy for me to sit back and say "come on board, lots of room" and accept all that might want to come as close to MY type as possible. So, my position of melting pot is both selfish and lazy on my part. It is what I want, what I think is better for the country, but in the end, highly influenced by my own wishes.

Let"s cut through some of the noise. At this point we are talking primarily about Middle-east Islamic culture. If a German immigrates, his culture has been integrated (homogenized) so much that something that is called as American as "hot dogs and apple pie" is really from his own damn country. Bastardize as they may be, we have accepted and Americanized things as unique as Chinese and French cultures.

So what is it about Islamic cultures that we are stumbling on. Well, for me I know that it is not necessarily just religion - I hate their religion only a little more than Christianity (well, a lot more, but...).

I don' t know... What is the problem? Open for discussion.

My problem is their very hostile and aggressive nature. Their culture undoubtedly has a lot to do with their religion, and it largely influences their behavior. At my school, muslims had protested in the front foyer, for a praying room and special recognition to excuse them from school event during praying time. The poor principal at the time had no choice but to agree to these guys, because these guys represent about 60% of my school population. Every Friday, they take up the gym floor, and that is where they host their prayer. I certainly consider this some form of culture, because it's not just my school but schools around us, it's very much culture like.

Another thing is they have actual "muslim clubs" where muslims are only allowed to join! I remember seeing the flyer and I was just so shocked. I wish I had taken a picture to show everybody but this kind of message they give is simply what I consider annoying.

So, praying, muslim clubs, special recognition are somethings I find incredibly annoying.

Making some accommodations for... whatever, seems OK but generally I agree with you. I don't understand the religious of any stripe, so I know it is easy for me to be dismissive of special needs, but I can still find it tedious.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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4/3/2016 10:06:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 9:33:08 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/3/2016 9:14:30 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:06:46 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:40:23 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:34:41 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

It is an interesting topic, and one that I am of two minds generally.

If you just ask me what I want, what I think is "best" I would say "melting pot" without even blinking. The shared culture that has come out of this nasty hodgepodge is a wonderful thing. I could write too much to read about how much this is desirable to ME, but then....

It is absolutely none of my business what people choose to do. If they want to NOT loose their "culture" whatever that may be, who am I to attempt to force them? On what grounds do I do that?

I agree, but I do find some cultures problematic to everybody around them.


Me, my "culture" for what it is is the "winning" culture in the US. It sure is easy for me to sit back and say "come on board, lots of room" and accept all that might want to come as close to MY type as possible. So, my position of melting pot is both selfish and lazy on my part. It is what I want, what I think is better for the country, but in the end, highly influenced by my own wishes.

Let"s cut through some of the noise. At this point we are talking primarily about Middle-east Islamic culture. If a German immigrates, his culture has been integrated (homogenized) so much that something that is called as American as "hot dogs and apple pie" is really from his own damn country. Bastardize as they may be, we have accepted and Americanized things as unique as Chinese and French cultures.

So what is it about Islamic cultures that we are stumbling on. Well, for me I know that it is not necessarily just religion - I hate their religion only a little more than Christianity (well, a lot more, but...).

I don' t know... What is the problem? Open for discussion.

My problem is their very hostile and aggressive nature. Their culture undoubtedly has a lot to do with their religion, and it largely influences their behavior. At my school, muslims had protested in the front foyer, for a praying room and special recognition to excuse them from school event during praying time. The poor principal at the time had no choice but to agree to these guys, because these guys represent about 60% of my school population. Every Friday, they take up the gym floor, and that is where they host their prayer. I certainly consider this some form of culture, because it's not just my school but schools around us, it's very much culture like.

Another thing is they have actual "muslim clubs" where muslims are only allowed to join! I remember seeing the flyer and I was just so shocked. I wish I had taken a picture to show everybody but this kind of message they give is simply what I consider annoying.

So, praying, muslim clubs, special recognition are somethings I find incredibly annoying.

Making some accommodations for... whatever, seems OK but generally I agree with you. I don't understand the religious of any stripe, so I know it is easy for me to be dismissive of special needs, but I can still find it tedious.

Well I said what I have experienced. Although I'll admit most muslim kids at my school are pretty friendly to me, which does make me a feel a bit better. It's like they have some switch on their button that turns them into some completely different thing. Just like how sharks become aggressive when they smell blood. Replace shark with muslim and blood with Islam, and it gives you a good idea of what to expect.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/3/2016 10:44:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

Near-total shutdown.

"Melting pots" don't happen. No, the US is not and has never been a "melting pot" - not to any significant degree.

"Mosaics" are inherently unstable, unless you go for something like the Hapsburg Empire's ethnic pluralism or Switzerland's canton system. The US is and is trying to be neither.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/4/2016 4:19:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

Quit having immigration. Everyone protect their own borders and nations. Everyone repopulate your country with your own people. Everybody pass down your own cultures. Why? Because most areas are not accepting mass immigration. NonMuslims are not even allowed into Mecca. That's fine. They do it their way over there. We do it our way over here. We don't owe them. They don't owe us. If they think they are getting overpopulated, they'll have to decide what to do about it. It's not our job to control it for them by allowing them to put us into the same problem of overpopulation.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,287
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4/4/2016 7:08:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

Mosaics are inherently segregated racism.

Melting pots are cultural approbation.

In the end, crappy cultures die, and everything gets assimilated into the dominant culture. If there is a melting pot, only the best stuff gets mixed in, and the rest is thrown out like bathwater to the pages of history. (like the Indians)

Best just to close off the borders and let people in that don't mind becoming part of the Borg collective.
slo1
Posts: 4,350
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4/4/2016 7:26:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 12:36:36 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/2/2016 2:12:00 PM, vortex86 wrote:
They both have their appeals as far as descriptions. A mosaic is scattered different pieces that form an appealing picture in the end. Melting pot is everything thrown together and melted to form one new mixed object. A mosaic still has divisions of pieces, which you could say is the retaining of one's identity of their origin and still help to form the big picture that is America. Perhaps the grout that they have in common could be national pride holding them all together.

Personally I feel a melting pot is much better, because it does keep the country a bit unified. The problem with a mosasic, is that it allows people to keep their own culture (not saying that's entirely bad), but some cultures are just fundamentally incompatible with American values (probably know what I'm talking about) this leads to a lot of problems in the long run. Look at Europe if you want to know what I'm talking about .

Poverty is the most incompatible culture in the US And elsewhere.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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4/4/2016 8:45:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 1:47:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What do you think is a better approach towards immigration?

Melting pots can work, but only with controlled immigration and institutions dedicated to cultural assimilation. This doesn't necessarily entail an abandonment of the original culture, but a compartmentalization.

Mosaics can also work, but not with typical European Enlightenment values. They entail heavy-handed (by our standards) controls on speech and conduct. The Islamic Caliphates, the Roman Empire, Catholic Europe, and various dynasties of Imperial China are examples.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -