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What do superdelegates have against Bernie?

Quadrunner
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4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/3/2016 11:58:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Hillary represents the establishment - and they fear that Sanders won't accomplish establishment policies if he gets the nomination. This whole election makes me nauseous.

I love Bernie Sanders because he cares - I disagree with the $15/hour federal minimum wage - which wouldn't pass. I think he just threw out a high number to negotiate raising in somewhat. Other than raising the minimum wage - which would hurt small businesses, I support Bernie Sanders cuz of his integrity - something Clinton lacks.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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4/4/2016 12:08:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
They are party officals, and Bernie Sanders didn't become a Democrat until 6 months ago. Why wouldn't they dislike him?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/4/2016 12:26:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Hillary is their best chance to kerp their cushy spots. She's a lying, political, money hungry vampire which is just what they need.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Quadrunner
Posts: 1,054
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4/4/2016 1:07:10 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 11:58:47 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...


Hillary represents the establishment - and they fear that Sanders won't accomplish establishment policies if he gets the nomination. This whole election makes me nauseous.

I love Bernie Sanders because he cares - I disagree with the $15/hour federal minimum wage - which wouldn't pass. I think he just threw out a high number to negotiate raising in somewhat. Other than raising the minimum wage - which would hurt small businesses, I support Bernie Sanders cuz of his integrity - something Clinton lacks.

Emmarie, I've been agreeing with you on everything you post in the forums I look at since I started reading forums. No exception here, feel free to represent me in the future. I think he's too extreme on some of his economic policies but, he's my favorite candidate, and since the president only passes law after the legislature, I'm not worried about any extreme views not being watered down by the time he has a chance to pass them. I guess it isn't too hard with the competition for me. I hate Cruz, Trump is Trump, Hillary has a decent base, and is honestly the most qualified for the job but she is a devious untrustworthy liar that I want to see retire. Bernie has a more polarizing base, but he wins on character by a long shot when compared to any candidate still in the running.

Hillary looks like the most stable choice, and that's probably something politicians have a lot of value for. Despite living off promises of change, they thrive off averages. My theory is that most of them simply believe that Hillary has the best chance of winning the general election, which would be sickening to confirm. No offense to anyone who goes for the long haul, but I personally vote for the person who represents me best to protect the integrity of the democratic system. If I hate the president, then I'm a minority respecting the benefit of the majority. My vision for this country might not be right anyway, so I don't act like the opposition is wrong.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/4/2016 1:15:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 1:07:10 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:58:47 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...


Hillary represents the establishment - and they fear that Sanders won't accomplish establishment policies if he gets the nomination. This whole election makes me nauseous.

I love Bernie Sanders because he cares - I disagree with the $15/hour federal minimum wage - which wouldn't pass. I think he just threw out a high number to negotiate raising in somewhat. Other than raising the minimum wage - which would hurt small businesses, I support Bernie Sanders cuz of his integrity - something Clinton lacks.

Emmarie, I've been agreeing with you on everything you post in the forums I look at since I started reading forums. No exception here, feel free to represent me in the future. I think he's too extreme on some of his economic policies but, he's my favorite candidate, and since the president only passes law after the legislature, I'm not worried about any extreme views not being watered down by the time he has a chance to pass them. I guess it isn't too hard with the competition for me. I hate Cruz, Trump is Trump, Hillary has a decent base, and is honestly the most qualified for the job but she is a devious untrustworthy liar that I want to see retire. Bernie has a more polarizing base, but he wins on character by a long shot when compared to any candidate still in the running.

Hillary looks like the most stable choice, and that's probably something politicians have a lot of value for. Despite living off promises of change, they thrive off averages. My theory is that most of them simply believe that Hillary has the best chance of winning the general election, which would be sickening to confirm. No offense to anyone who goes for the long haul, but I personally vote for the person who represents me best to protect the integrity of the democratic system. If I hate the president, then I'm a minority respecting the benefit of the majority. My vision for this country might not be right anyway, so I don't act like the opposition is wrong.

Well thanks - considering I was told by another user that I'm inspired by satan on the religious forums earlier today. I agree with you as well and hopefully people will see the need to have a president to be proud of for his integrity and one who will attempt to view all American's dilemmas and not just represent a political ideology of a party.

I want a President who will stand up to injustice and one who can't be bought and Bernie Sanders represents that more than any other candidate.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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4/4/2016 1:19:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

Probably that Bernie is so far to the left that he couldnt possibly win a general election contest against any competition who is half-decent

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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tajshar2k
Posts: 2,376
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4/4/2016 3:27:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 1:19:52 AM, imabench wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

Probably that Bernie is so far to the left that he couldnt possibly win a general election contest against any competition who is half-decent

https://en.wikipedia.org...

I finally agree with you. After doing research, nearly everything Bernie says is impossible to accomplish.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,054
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4/4/2016 3:54:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 1:15:12 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/4/2016 1:07:10 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:58:47 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...


Hillary represents the establishment - and they fear that Sanders won't accomplish establishment policies if he gets the nomination. This whole election makes me nauseous.

I love Bernie Sanders because he cares - I disagree with the $15/hour federal minimum wage - which wouldn't pass. I think he just threw out a high number to negotiate raising in somewhat. Other than raising the minimum wage - which would hurt small businesses, I support Bernie Sanders cuz of his integrity - something Clinton lacks.

Emmarie, I've been agreeing with you on everything you post in the forums I look at since I started reading forums. No exception here, feel free to represent me in the future. I think he's too extreme on some of his economic policies but, he's my favorite candidate, and since the president only passes law after the legislature, I'm not worried about any extreme views not being watered down by the time he has a chance to pass them. I guess it isn't too hard with the competition for me. I hate Cruz, Trump is Trump, Hillary has a decent base, and is honestly the most qualified for the job but she is a devious untrustworthy liar that I want to see retire. Bernie has a more polarizing base, but he wins on character by a long shot when compared to any candidate still in the running.

Hillary looks like the most stable choice, and that's probably something politicians have a lot of value for. Despite living off promises of change, they thrive off averages. My theory is that most of them simply believe that Hillary has the best chance of winning the general election, which would be sickening to confirm. No offense to anyone who goes for the long haul, but I personally vote for the person who represents me best to protect the integrity of the democratic system. If I hate the president, then I'm a minority respecting the benefit of the majority. My vision for this country might not be right anyway, so I don't act like the opposition is wrong.

Well thanks - considering I was told by another user that I'm inspired by satan on the religious forums earlier today. I agree with you as well and hopefully people will see the need to have a president to be proud of for his integrity and one who will attempt to view all American's dilemmas and not just represent a political ideology of a party.

Which forum was that?

I want a President who will stand up to injustice and one who can't be bought and Bernie Sanders represents that more than any other candidate.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/4/2016 4:54:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Now, I think Sanders can start picking off SDs, and may still have a path to a nomination. I love the guy, and he is my choice, but I am not all worked-up about the SDs. It is a known thing in the party, and Sanders was well aware of the process.
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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4/4/2016 5:06:56 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Sounds like they are also thwarting the voice of the people as well.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/4/2016 5:36:05 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 5:06:56 PM, liltankjj wrote:
Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Sounds like they are also thwarting the voice of the people as well.

Well... I have gone through this issue before, let me take another shot at it.

Let me start with two points. I am a Sanders supporter, the super delegates are hurting my guy. Second, I was working hard for Obama when the super delegates were once again going to Clinton to the frustration of us Obama supporters. So, my history with them should be a negative experience, and it has been - for ME!

Now. Do I think its a bad idea, or somehow unfair? Not at all. This is not public election, it is running for the top spot in the party. It is a race to get the person that is going to sit at the top of the ticket. Not too long ago the party's never even bother to ask the public who they were going to run. Its the party's prerogative to put up whomever they like.

The people that work hard within the party's, the people who show-up for the not so glamorous work, the ones that are leaders within the party right now. Yea, they deserve some input into who is going to run at the head of the ticket. The SDs are there as a firewall, a way to protect the party from getting hijacked - like what is happening with Trump in the GOP.

Getting worked-up that the party is not listening to the voice of the people is nonsense. The Super Delegate are not unaware of what is happening at any time, they are more plugged in than the average voter, and listening to the first time voter screech about how "unfair" this is is a huge insult. They are not Snidely Whiplash, they are deeply committed to the party, and don't have the luxury of walking away in a huff because some 20 something didn't know how the damn process works. Sanders knew damn well that super delegate were going to be an issue, and we have known for a very long time who many of them would be supporting. Simply put, crying about the rules simply because you didn't know about them says more about the people crying than the person who is... you know... working their a$$ off inside the party in the first place.

Is that getting us anywhere?
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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4/4/2016 5:43:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 5:36:05 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 5:06:56 PM, liltankjj wrote:
Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Sounds like they are also thwarting the voice of the people as well.

Well... I have gone through this issue before, let me take another shot at it.

Let me start with two points. I am a Sanders supporter, the super delegates are hurting my guy. Second, I was working hard for Obama when the super delegates were once again going to Clinton to the frustration of us Obama supporters. So, my history with them should be a negative experience, and it has been - for ME!

Now. Do I think its a bad idea, or somehow unfair? Not at all. This is not public election, it is running for the top spot in the party. It is a race to get the person that is going to sit at the top of the ticket. Not too long ago the party's never even bother to ask the public who they were going to run. Its the party's prerogative to put up whomever they like.

The people that work hard within the party's, the people who show-up for the not so glamorous work, the ones that are leaders within the party right now. Yea, they deserve some input into who is going to run at the head of the ticket. The SDs are there as a firewall, a way to protect the party from getting hijacked - like what is happening with Trump in the GOP.

Getting worked-up that the party is not listening to the voice of the people is nonsense. The Super Delegate are not unaware of what is happening at any time, they are more plugged in than the average voter, and listening to the first time voter screech about how "unfair" this is is a huge insult. They are not Snidely Whiplash, they are deeply committed to the party, and don't have the luxury of walking away in a huff because some 20 something didn't know how the damn process works. Sanders knew damn well that super delegate were going to be an issue, and we have known for a very long time who many of them would be supporting. Simply put, crying about the rules simply because you didn't know about them says more about the people crying than the person who is... you know... working their a$$ off inside the party in the first place.

Is that getting us anywhere?

Yea It actually leads me to a huge dispute I've had over our political setup as a whole. This two party system (even though there are other parties, they just don't have the same pull.) is what causes the most confusion. They like to call us a democracy but it seems more and more to me that it is a republic. The people's voice is just for show.
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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4/4/2016 6:04:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

They know that Hillary is a better candidate in a general election, has more experience, more reasonable policy goals, a lot of things

They aren't tocked at Bernie, except to the extent that a lot of dems are mad at him for wasting time that could be spent campaigning for the general election.
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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4/4/2016 6:06:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 3:27:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/4/2016 1:19:52 AM, imabench wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

Probably that Bernie is so far to the left that he couldnt possibly win a general election contest against any competition who is half-decent

https://en.wikipedia.org...

I finally agree with you. After doing research, nearly everything Bernie says is impossible to accomplish.

It is possible, he just needs to convince the GOp house to pass trillions in new taxes.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/4/2016 6:21:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 5:43:18 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 4/4/2016 5:36:05 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 5:06:56 PM, liltankjj wrote:
Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Sounds like they are also thwarting the voice of the people as well.

Well... I have gone through this issue before, let me take another shot at it.

Let me start with two points. I am a Sanders supporter, the super delegates are hurting my guy. Second, I was working hard for Obama when the super delegates were once again going to Clinton to the frustration of us Obama supporters. So, my history with them should be a negative experience, and it has been - for ME!

Now. Do I think its a bad idea, or somehow unfair? Not at all. This is not public election, it is running for the top spot in the party. It is a race to get the person that is going to sit at the top of the ticket. Not too long ago the party's never even bother to ask the public who they were going to run. Its the party's prerogative to put up whomever they like.

The people that work hard within the party's, the people who show-up for the not so glamorous work, the ones that are leaders within the party right now. Yea, they deserve some input into who is going to run at the head of the ticket. The SDs are there as a firewall, a way to protect the party from getting hijacked - like what is happening with Trump in the GOP.

Getting worked-up that the party is not listening to the voice of the people is nonsense. The Super Delegate are not unaware of what is happening at any time, they are more plugged in than the average voter, and listening to the first time voter screech about how "unfair" this is is a huge insult. They are not Snidely Whiplash, they are deeply committed to the party, and don't have the luxury of walking away in a huff because some 20 something didn't know how the damn process works. Sanders knew damn well that super delegate were going to be an issue, and we have known for a very long time who many of them would be supporting. Simply put, crying about the rules simply because you didn't know about them says more about the people crying than the person who is... you know... working their a$$ off inside the party in the first place.

Is that getting us anywhere?

Yea It actually leads me to a huge dispute I've had over our political setup as a whole. This two party system (even though there are other parties, they just don't have the same pull.) is what causes the most confusion. They like to call us a democracy but it seems more and more to me that it is a republic. The people's voice is just for show.

Well, sure it is a republic. That is by no means bad or wrong. Direct democracies are very few. As to the power of the peoples voice - it is much stronger than you might think. It's just the apathy of the people that makes you think we have little say.

We can hardly get people out to vote once a year, can't even get out good numbers every 4 years for presidential elections. You expect that we could do direct democracy? Do you think that the people would be well informed about every vote?
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/4/2016 8:08:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 3:54:47 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/4/2016 1:15:12 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/4/2016 1:07:10 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:58:47 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/3/2016 11:44:29 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
Seriously, He must have really ticked some of these guys off. What do they know that Bernie's voters don't know?

https://en.wikipedia.org...


Hillary represents the establishment - and they fear that Sanders won't accomplish establishment policies if he gets the nomination. This whole election makes me nauseous.

I love Bernie Sanders because he cares - I disagree with the $15/hour federal minimum wage - which wouldn't pass. I think he just threw out a high number to negotiate raising in somewhat. Other than raising the minimum wage - which would hurt small businesses, I support Bernie Sanders cuz of his integrity - something Clinton lacks.

Emmarie, I've been agreeing with you on everything you post in the forums I look at since I started reading forums. No exception here, feel free to represent me in the future. I think he's too extreme on some of his economic policies but, he's my favorite candidate, and since the president only passes law after the legislature, I'm not worried about any extreme views not being watered down by the time he has a chance to pass them. I guess it isn't too hard with the competition for me. I hate Cruz, Trump is Trump, Hillary has a decent base, and is honestly the most qualified for the job but she is a devious untrustworthy liar that I want to see retire. Bernie has a more polarizing base, but he wins on character by a long shot when compared to any candidate still in the running.

Hillary looks like the most stable choice, and that's probably something politicians have a lot of value for. Despite living off promises of change, they thrive off averages. My theory is that most of them simply believe that Hillary has the best chance of winning the general election, which would be sickening to confirm. No offense to anyone who goes for the long haul, but I personally vote for the person who represents me best to protect the integrity of the democratic system. If I hate the president, then I'm a minority respecting the benefit of the majority. My vision for this country might not be right anyway, so I don't act like the opposition is wrong.

Well thanks - considering I was told by another user that I'm inspired by satan on the religious forums earlier today. I agree with you as well and hopefully people will see the need to have a president to be proud of for his integrity and one who will attempt to view all American's dilemmas and not just represent a political ideology of a party.

Which forum was that?

I'm gonna let it go it was from MCB a JW's. Those people who are indoctrinated by religion like a cult - I don't wanna provoke. If I can't reach them with a kind approach - I let go and let God. Occasionally I lose my temper on here - but usually not toward anyone who insults me - its usually when someone is deliberately deceptive for marketing purposes - or sometimes when someone is overtly harsh to the kinda guy who called me inspired by satan.

I defend those people who may be so isolated that they only have the Bible and their beliefs which are sacred to them, and who am I to provoke them to hate. Then I would be inspired by satan. Now if they were to go out killing because of cultish religious beliefs - they'd need to be stopped. I know what loneliness is and luckily I had strong faith and martial arts and meditation to keep me from hate and blame - but some people when they are lonely cling to the only thing they have which is a particular religion where they can feel a part of something.

I want a President who will stand up to injustice and one who can't be bought and Bernie Sanders represents that more than any other candidate.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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4/4/2016 8:18:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 8:08:02 PM, Emmarie wrote:

I'm gonna let it go it was from MCB a JW's. Those people who are indoctrinated by religion like a cult - I don't wanna provoke. If I can't reach them with a kind approach - I let go and let God. Occasionally I lose my temper on here - but usually not toward anyone who insults me - its usually when someone is deliberately deceptive for marketing purposes - or sometimes when someone is overtly harsh to the kinda guy who called me inspired by satan.

I defend those people who may be so isolated that they only have the Bible and their beliefs which are sacred to them, and who am I to provoke them to hate. Then I would be inspired by satan. Now if they were to go out killing because of cultish religious beliefs - they'd need to be stopped. I know what loneliness is and luckily I had strong faith and martial arts and meditation to keep me from hate and blame - but some people when they are lonely cling to the only thing they have which is a particular religion where they can feel a part of something.

I want a President who will stand up to injustice and one who can't be bought and Bernie Sanders represents that more than any other candidate.

That's terrible, I would not enjoy being in a forum where people called me inspired by Satan.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,054
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4/4/2016 8:26:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 5:36:05 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 5:06:56 PM, liltankjj wrote:
Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Sounds like they are also thwarting the voice of the people as well.

Well... I have gone through this issue before, let me take another shot at it.

Let me start with two points. I am a Sanders supporter, the super delegates are hurting my guy. Second, I was working hard for Obama when the super delegates were once again going to Clinton to the frustration of us Obama supporters. So, my history with them should be a negative experience, and it has been - for ME!

Now. Do I think its a bad idea, or somehow unfair? Not at all. This is not public election, it is running for the top spot in the party. It is a race to get the person that is going to sit at the top of the ticket. Not too long ago the party's never even bother to ask the public who they were going to run. Its the party's prerogative to put up whomever they like.

The people that work hard within the party's, the people who show-up for the not so glamorous work, the ones that are leaders within the party right now. Yea, they deserve some input into who is going to run at the head of the ticket. The SDs are there as a firewall, a way to protect the party from getting hijacked - like what is happening with Trump in the GOP.

Getting worked-up that the party is not listening to the voice of the people is nonsense. The Super Delegate are not unaware of what is happening at any time, they are more plugged in than the average voter, and listening to the first time voter screech about how "unfair" this is is a huge insult. They are not Snidely Whiplash, they are deeply committed to the party, and don't have the luxury of walking away in a huff because some 20 something didn't know how the damn process works. Sanders knew damn well that super delegate were going to be an issue, and we have known for a very long time who many of them would be supporting. Simply put, crying about the rules simply because you didn't know about them says more about the people crying than the person who is... you know... working their a$$ off inside the party in the first place.

Is that getting us anywhere?

Why are they so committed to the party? Is it because their views coincide with the party's definitions, or because their views need to coincide with the party?

I strongly support a split responsibility between popular vote, and highly educated delegates. Those delegates shouldn't be loyal to their party though. They should happen to coincide with their party, or be in another party, which isn't an option for a person like Bernie Sanders since the democratic party is the only one with enough resources to support his campaign for presidency.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/4/2016 8:29:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 8:18:57 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/4/2016 8:08:02 PM, Emmarie wrote:

I'm gonna let it go it was from MCB a JW's. Those people who are indoctrinated by religion like a cult - I don't wanna provoke. If I can't reach them with a kind approach - I let go and let God. Occasionally I lose my temper on here - but usually not toward anyone who insults me - its usually when someone is deliberately deceptive for marketing purposes - or sometimes when someone is overtly harsh to the kinda guy who called me inspired by satan.

I defend those people who may be so isolated that they only have the Bible and their beliefs which are sacred to them, and who am I to provoke them to hate. Then I would be inspired by satan. Now if they were to go out killing because of cultish religious beliefs - they'd need to be stopped. I know what loneliness is and luckily I had strong faith and martial arts and meditation to keep me from hate and blame - but some people when they are lonely cling to the only thing they have which is a particular religion where they can feel a part of something.

I want a President who will stand up to injustice and one who can't be bought and Bernie Sanders represents that more than any other candidate.

That's terrible, I would not enjoy being in a forum where people called me inspired by Satan.

I let it go after quoting him this: "Matthew 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?"
TBR
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4/4/2016 8:31:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 8:26:41 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/4/2016 5:36:05 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 5:06:56 PM, liltankjj wrote:
Yea, I think it is covered well enough, but I will add - they don't hate him, they are just doing what the SDs do. Support the internals of the party. Sanders is not a Democrat, he is just running under the party (or for the heart of the party). SDs were virtually invented to thwart things like a Sanders run.

Sounds like they are also thwarting the voice of the people as well.

Well... I have gone through this issue before, let me take another shot at it.

Let me start with two points. I am a Sanders supporter, the super delegates are hurting my guy. Second, I was working hard for Obama when the super delegates were once again going to Clinton to the frustration of us Obama supporters. So, my history with them should be a negative experience, and it has been - for ME!

Now. Do I think its a bad idea, or somehow unfair? Not at all. This is not public election, it is running for the top spot in the party. It is a race to get the person that is going to sit at the top of the ticket. Not too long ago the party's never even bother to ask the public who they were going to run. Its the party's prerogative to put up whomever they like.

The people that work hard within the party's, the people who show-up for the not so glamorous work, the ones that are leaders within the party right now. Yea, they deserve some input into who is going to run at the head of the ticket. The SDs are there as a firewall, a way to protect the party from getting hijacked - like what is happening with Trump in the GOP.

Getting worked-up that the party is not listening to the voice of the people is nonsense. The Super Delegate are not unaware of what is happening at any time, they are more plugged in than the average voter, and listening to the first time voter screech about how "unfair" this is is a huge insult. They are not Snidely Whiplash, they are deeply committed to the party, and don't have the luxury of walking away in a huff because some 20 something didn't know how the damn process works. Sanders knew damn well that super delegate were going to be an issue, and we have known for a very long time who many of them would be supporting. Simply put, crying about the rules simply because you didn't know about them says more about the people crying than the person who is... you know... working their a$$ off inside the party in the first place.

Is that getting us anywhere?

Why are they so committed to the party? Is it because their views coincide with the party's definitions, or because their views need to coincide with the party?

I strongly support a split responsibility between popular vote, and highly educated delegates. Those delegates shouldn't be loyal to their party though. They should happen to coincide with their party, or be in another party, which isn't an option for a person like Bernie Sanders since the democratic party is the only one with enough resources to support his campaign for presidency.

I may be misunderstanding your schema, but it sounds like a much bigger problem than SD ever could be. Are you saying that some elite group of voters get to decide what happens within a party irrespective of their own allegiance? That is disastrous.
liltankjj
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4/4/2016 9:12:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Well, sure it is a republic. That is by no means bad or wrong. Direct democracies are very few. As to the power of the peoples voice - it is much stronger than you might think. It's just the apathy of the people that makes you think we have little say.

We can hardly get people out to vote once a year, can't even get out good numbers every 4 years for presidential elections. You expect that we could do direct democracy? Do you think that the people would be well informed about every vote?

I believe we do have the technology to perform a true Constitutional Democracy. Vice the Constitutional Democratic Republic we do have lol. As for people being informed I don't believe so as it is now. But I do believe it can improve.
TBR
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4/4/2016 9:18:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 9:12:02 PM, liltankjj wrote:
Well, sure it is a republic. That is by no means bad or wrong. Direct democracies are very few. As to the power of the peoples voice - it is much stronger than you might think. It's just the apathy of the people that makes you think we have little say.

We can hardly get people out to vote once a year, can't even get out good numbers every 4 years for presidential elections. You expect that we could do direct democracy? Do you think that the people would be well informed about every vote?

I believe we do have the technology to perform a true Constitutional Democracy. Vice the Constitutional Democratic Republic we do have lol. As for people being informed I don't believe so as it is now. But I do believe it can improve.

I would not like a direct democracy, and it is not very practical.
liltankjj
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4/4/2016 9:21:33 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I would not like a direct democracy, and it is not very practical.

What is lacking in practicality? and why would you not like it.
TBR
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4/4/2016 9:31:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 9:21:33 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I would not like a direct democracy, and it is not very practical.

What is lacking in practicality? and why would you not like it.

Every voter in the US would have to be informed (and able to understand) all laws being considered. They would have to be voting on issues with actual real-world repercussions with little understanding of the vote, or its potential overall effect.

Instability in policy would be almost assured. Changing with populous whim and good advertising campaigns. Yea, it would suck.
Quadrunner
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4/5/2016 12:42:31 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 9:31:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 9:21:33 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I would not like a direct democracy, and it is not very practical.

What is lacking in practicality? and why would you not like it.

Every voter in the US would have to be informed (and able to understand) all laws being considered. They would have to be voting on issues with actual real-world repercussions with little understanding of the vote, or its potential overall effect.

Instability in policy would be almost assured. Changing with populous whim and good advertising campaigns. Yea, it would suck.

^^Well put. Direct democracy is great on smaller scales where people come in direct contact with the things they're voting on.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
liltankjj
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4/5/2016 8:32:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 9:31:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 9:21:33 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I would not like a direct democracy, and it is not very practical.

What is lacking in practicality? and why would you not like it.

Every voter in the US would have to be informed (and able to understand) all laws being considered. They would have to be voting on issues with actual real-world repercussions with little understanding of the vote, or its potential overall effect.

Instability in policy would be almost assured. Changing with populous whim and good advertising campaigns. Yea, it would suck.

I agree but with a reform in education and a few areas but primarily education, a lot can change. It won't be overnight it will take time. But I also have little problem with the way the republic is now. It is only democratic at the legislative branch and gubernatorial elections. These two can very much be game changers. I still believe the education system need a complete reform.
liltankjj
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4/5/2016 8:34:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 12:42:31 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/4/2016 9:31:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/4/2016 9:21:33 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I would not like a direct democracy, and it is not very practical.

What is lacking in practicality? and why would you not like it.

Every voter in the US would have to be informed (and able to understand) all laws being considered. They would have to be voting on issues with actual real-world repercussions with little understanding of the vote, or its potential overall effect.

Instability in policy would be almost assured. Changing with populous whim and good advertising campaigns. Yea, it would suck.

^^Well put. Direct democracy is great on smaller scales where people come in direct contact with the things they're voting on.

I can see this as relevant but I don't believe it is impossible for it to be effective on a larger scale. It would just take more work and effort.
liltankjj
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4/5/2016 8:40:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 9:41:49 PM, TBR wrote:
Not a bad article about some of the real problems with direct democracys

http://harvardpolitics.com...

Seems interesting. I'll continue looking into it. I agree, a majority doesn't always mean the right thing. The majority can decide to take my kids away for simple reasons and there wouldn't be much I could do about it. I do believe that's why a constitutional democracy is better. The law must reign over the self-governed and stand as final.