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Bill of Rights (Updated)

Runn92
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4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

3.) Right Not to Quarter Soldiers in the Home Without Permission- This only applies to actual soldiers not soldiers for "social justice"

4.) Freedom from Search and Seizure Without Warrant- This does NOT apply when it comes to college administrators trying to stamp out things deemed sexist and racist

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

6.) Right to Face Your Accuser in Court- This Also Does not Apply to males who are Accused of Rape

7.) Right to a Jury Trial in Civil Court- This Also Does not Apply to College Aged Males

8.) No Excessive Bails or Fines or Cruel and Unusual Punishment- Unless a joke or comment deemed sexist or racist is made

9.) Unenumerated Rights- This includes the right to free plan B and the right to be offended

10.) Powers Reserved to the States- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

11.) The Right for Anyone in the World to Immigrate to the United States or Else Xenophobia
YYW
Posts: 36,394
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4/19/2016 4:47:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:

I'll begin, tangentially, by saying that I hate the word "cisgendered." It has such a repulsive feel, and I can't help but think that's intentional. I think of other words that start with "cis" and can't help but associating them with the word "cisgendered." Cysts; cystic fibrosis; cystic acne; cystoscopy; cystic hygroma, carcinoma, cystic echinococcosis, and I could go on.... It just sounds gross. That aside....

The theme of your post is the notion that "our rights" are being eroded away, and maybe they are, to some extent, in the sense that what was once regarded as entirely normal for people, entities, organizations, and other social structures is now changing, and that change is having really significant implications for some people. This is sort of close to the "siege mentality" you get from groups like the crazies who filmed "God's Not Dead 2" and other similar instances of cinematographic stupidity.

I would posit this to you, however... regarding these rights, before I break into the more interesting ones. Realize that there is a difference between "cultural norms" and "legal rights." What was or may have once been a cultural norm is not a legal right, even though what may have been the cultural norm once corresponded to a legal right.

1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

I'm surprised the religion aspect didn't play more into your post, because that tends to be the battle cry of most on the fringe right these days, though perhaps you're not an evangelical. Nonetheless, the right to free speech and the norm against censorship are two different things.

What's happening now is that there are very active and committed groups who operate with the specific purpose of silencing political views they object too, and go to tremendous lengths in service of that objective. The lengths range from throwing paint at people, to shouting at conservative speakers (or even liberal ones who are not totally insane) to a point where the speaker cannot talk, to engaging in political activism to keep universities empty of competing political perspectives, to pretending to suffer from mental illness (e.g. post traumatic stress disorder), or just pretending to be "traumatized" because of the presence of competing political perspectives.

Said more simply, these people feign victimhood for the purpose of co-opting political power. It's straight out of Nietzsche's Geneology of Morals, and it's repulsive. They are social justice warriors, and they are what is wrong with America.Not all liberals are like that, though, and certainly not all on the left endorse that way of thinking. Only a certain species of progressive will conduct themselves in this fashion.

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There have never been stronger gun rights protections than there are now. The notion that Obama is "taking guns away" is a myth, created by right wing pundits and gun manufacturers to boost their profits over dumb Americans political fears.

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

Yes, and this is a problem. It's been said by many that sexual assault is a crime so heinous that even innocence is no defense, and reasonably accurately. An attorney going into the business of defending boys in college accused of raping girls could make a mint. Especially given the objective stupidity of most of the complaining about "rape culture," it would be very easy and even more lucrative. You would have no shortage of clients.

That said, there was once a time when it was sort of accepted that adolescents will get drunk and do stupid things with each other in colleges throughout our fruited plains. But now, whenever a girl feels embarrassed about the guy she had sex with, she can cry rape, or sexual assault. (Curiously, the word "sexual assault" is often confused with rape. A "sexual assault" could be nothing more than a kiss on the cheek after a guy bought a girl a drink.)

But there is no such thing as "rape culture." Its an abject lie promulgated by the progressive left for the purpose of furthering their political agenda, and it's disgusting. The reason it's disgusting is because legitimate rape victims are slandered as a result of the wolf-crying that takes place now. Do you know why most rapes go un-prosecuted? It's because the culture progressives have created trivialize it, and American juries don't take it seriously anymore.
Tsar of DDO
Runn92
Posts: 324
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4/19/2016 4:49:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:47:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:

I'll begin, tangentially, by saying that I hate the word "cisgendered." It has such a repulsive feel, and I can't help but think that's intentional. I think of other words that start with "cis" and can't help but associating them with the word "cisgendered." Cysts; cystic fibrosis; cystic acne; cystoscopy; cystic hygroma, carcinoma, cystic echinococcosis, and I could go on.... It just sounds gross. That aside....

The theme of your post is the notion that "our rights" are being eroded away, and maybe they are, to some extent, in the sense that what was once regarded as entirely normal for people, entities, organizations, and other social structures is now changing, and that change is having really significant implications for some people. This is sort of close to the "siege mentality" you get from groups like the crazies who filmed "God's Not Dead 2" and other similar instances of cinematographic stupidity.

I would posit this to you, however... regarding these rights, before I break into the more interesting ones. Realize that there is a difference between "cultural norms" and "legal rights." What was or may have once been a cultural norm is not a legal right, even though what may have been the cultural norm once corresponded to a legal right.

1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

I'm surprised the religion aspect didn't play more into your post, because that tends to be the battle cry of most on the fringe right these days, though perhaps you're not an evangelical. Nonetheless, the right to free speech and the norm against censorship are two different things.

What's happening now is that there are very active and committed groups who operate with the specific purpose of silencing political views they object too, and go to tremendous lengths in service of that objective. The lengths range from throwing paint at people, to shouting at conservative speakers (or even liberal ones who are not totally insane) to a point where the speaker cannot talk, to engaging in political activism to keep universities empty of competing political perspectives, to pretending to suffer from mental illness (e.g. post traumatic stress disorder), or just pretending to be "traumatized" because of the presence of competing political perspectives.

Said more simply, these people feign victimhood for the purpose of co-opting political power. It's straight out of Nietzsche's Geneology of Morals, and it's repulsive. They are social justice warriors, and they are what is wrong with America.Not all liberals are like that, though, and certainly not all on the left endorse that way of thinking. Only a certain species of progressive will conduct themselves in this fashion.

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There have never been stronger gun rights protections than there are now. The notion that Obama is "taking guns away" is a myth, created by right wing pundits and gun manufacturers to boost their profits over dumb Americans political fears.

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

Yes, and this is a problem. It's been said by many that sexual assault is a crime so heinous that even innocence is no defense, and reasonably accurately. An attorney going into the business of defending boys in college accused of raping girls could make a mint. Especially given the objective stupidity of most of the complaining about "rape culture," it would be very easy and even more lucrative. You would have no shortage of clients.

That said, there was once a time when it was sort of accepted that adolescents will get drunk and do stupid things with each other in colleges throughout our fruited plains. But now, whenever a girl feels embarrassed about the guy she had sex with, she can cry rape, or sexual assault. (Curiously, the word "sexual assault" is often confused with rape. A "sexual assault" could be nothing more than a kiss on the cheek after a guy bought a girl a drink.)

But there is no such thing as "rape culture." Its an abject lie promulgated by the progressive left for the purpose of furthering their political agenda, and it's disgusting. The reason it's disgusting is because legitimate rape victims are slandered as a result of the wolf-crying that takes place now. Do you know why most rapes go un-prosecuted? It's because the culture progressives have created trivialize it, and American juries don't take it seriously anymore.

It's unrealistic to totally separate culture from our legal system.....
YYW
Posts: 36,394
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4/19/2016 4:54:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:49:34 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:47:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:

I'll begin, tangentially, by saying that I hate the word "cisgendered." It has such a repulsive feel, and I can't help but think that's intentional. I think of other words that start with "cis" and can't help but associating them with the word "cisgendered." Cysts; cystic fibrosis; cystic acne; cystoscopy; cystic hygroma, carcinoma, cystic echinococcosis, and I could go on.... It just sounds gross. That aside....

The theme of your post is the notion that "our rights" are being eroded away, and maybe they are, to some extent, in the sense that what was once regarded as entirely normal for people, entities, organizations, and other social structures is now changing, and that change is having really significant implications for some people. This is sort of close to the "siege mentality" you get from groups like the crazies who filmed "God's Not Dead 2" and other similar instances of cinematographic stupidity.

I would posit this to you, however... regarding these rights, before I break into the more interesting ones. Realize that there is a difference between "cultural norms" and "legal rights." What was or may have once been a cultural norm is not a legal right, even though what may have been the cultural norm once corresponded to a legal right.

1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

I'm surprised the religion aspect didn't play more into your post, because that tends to be the battle cry of most on the fringe right these days, though perhaps you're not an evangelical. Nonetheless, the right to free speech and the norm against censorship are two different things.

What's happening now is that there are very active and committed groups who operate with the specific purpose of silencing political views they object too, and go to tremendous lengths in service of that objective. The lengths range from throwing paint at people, to shouting at conservative speakers (or even liberal ones who are not totally insane) to a point where the speaker cannot talk, to engaging in political activism to keep universities empty of competing political perspectives, to pretending to suffer from mental illness (e.g. post traumatic stress disorder), or just pretending to be "traumatized" because of the presence of competing political perspectives.

Said more simply, these people feign victimhood for the purpose of co-opting political power. It's straight out of Nietzsche's Geneology of Morals, and it's repulsive. They are social justice warriors, and they are what is wrong with America.Not all liberals are like that, though, and certainly not all on the left endorse that way of thinking. Only a certain species of progressive will conduct themselves in this fashion.

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There have never been stronger gun rights protections than there are now. The notion that Obama is "taking guns away" is a myth, created by right wing pundits and gun manufacturers to boost their profits over dumb Americans political fears.

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

Yes, and this is a problem. It's been said by many that sexual assault is a crime so heinous that even innocence is no defense, and reasonably accurately. An attorney going into the business of defending boys in college accused of raping girls could make a mint. Especially given the objective stupidity of most of the complaining about "rape culture," it would be very easy and even more lucrative. You would have no shortage of clients.

That said, there was once a time when it was sort of accepted that adolescents will get drunk and do stupid things with each other in colleges throughout our fruited plains. But now, whenever a girl feels embarrassed about the guy she had sex with, she can cry rape, or sexual assault. (Curiously, the word "sexual assault" is often confused with rape. A "sexual assault" could be nothing more than a kiss on the cheek after a guy bought a girl a drink.)

But there is no such thing as "rape culture." Its an abject lie promulgated by the progressive left for the purpose of furthering their political agenda, and it's disgusting. The reason it's disgusting is because legitimate rape victims are slandered as a result of the wolf-crying that takes place now. Do you know why most rapes go un-prosecuted? It's because the culture progressives have created trivialize it, and American juries don't take it seriously anymore.

It's unrealistic to totally separate culture from our legal system.....

That's not a meaningful statement. The two exist in the same context, but cultural norms to not birth legal rights.
Tsar of DDO
Runn92
Posts: 324
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4/19/2016 5:13:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 4:54:21 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:49:34 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:47:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:

I'll begin, tangentially, by saying that I hate the word "cisgendered." It has such a repulsive feel, and I can't help but think that's intentional. I think of other words that start with "cis" and can't help but associating them with the word "cisgendered." Cysts; cystic fibrosis; cystic acne; cystoscopy; cystic hygroma, carcinoma, cystic echinococcosis, and I could go on.... It just sounds gross. That aside....

The theme of your post is the notion that "our rights" are being eroded away, and maybe they are, to some extent, in the sense that what was once regarded as entirely normal for people, entities, organizations, and other social structures is now changing, and that change is having really significant implications for some people. This is sort of close to the "siege mentality" you get from groups like the crazies who filmed "God's Not Dead 2" and other similar instances of cinematographic stupidity.

I would posit this to you, however... regarding these rights, before I break into the more interesting ones. Realize that there is a difference between "cultural norms" and "legal rights." What was or may have once been a cultural norm is not a legal right, even though what may have been the cultural norm once corresponded to a legal right.

1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

I'm surprised the religion aspect didn't play more into your post, because that tends to be the battle cry of most on the fringe right these days, though perhaps you're not an evangelical. Nonetheless, the right to free speech and the norm against censorship are two different things.

What's happening now is that there are very active and committed groups who operate with the specific purpose of silencing political views they object too, and go to tremendous lengths in service of that objective. The lengths range from throwing paint at people, to shouting at conservative speakers (or even liberal ones who are not totally insane) to a point where the speaker cannot talk, to engaging in political activism to keep universities empty of competing political perspectives, to pretending to suffer from mental illness (e.g. post traumatic stress disorder), or just pretending to be "traumatized" because of the presence of competing political perspectives.

Said more simply, these people feign victimhood for the purpose of co-opting political power. It's straight out of Nietzsche's Geneology of Morals, and it's repulsive. They are social justice warriors, and they are what is wrong with America.Not all liberals are like that, though, and certainly not all on the left endorse that way of thinking. Only a certain species of progressive will conduct themselves in this fashion.

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There have never been stronger gun rights protections than there are now. The notion that Obama is "taking guns away" is a myth, created by right wing pundits and gun manufacturers to boost their profits over dumb Americans political fears.

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

Yes, and this is a problem. It's been said by many that sexual assault is a crime so heinous that even innocence is no defense, and reasonably accurately. An attorney going into the business of defending boys in college accused of raping girls could make a mint. Especially given the objective stupidity of most of the complaining about "rape culture," it would be very easy and even more lucrative. You would have no shortage of clients.

That said, there was once a time when it was sort of accepted that adolescents will get drunk and do stupid things with each other in colleges throughout our fruited plains. But now, whenever a girl feels embarrassed about the guy she had sex with, she can cry rape, or sexual assault. (Curiously, the word "sexual assault" is often confused with rape. A "sexual assault" could be nothing more than a kiss on the cheek after a guy bought a girl a drink.)

But there is no such thing as "rape culture." Its an abject lie promulgated by the progressive left for the purpose of furthering their political agenda, and it's disgusting. The reason it's disgusting is because legitimate rape victims are slandered as a result of the wolf-crying that takes place now. Do you know why most rapes go un-prosecuted? It's because the culture progressives have created trivialize it, and American juries don't take it seriously anymore.

It's unrealistic to totally separate culture from our legal system.....

That's not a meaningful statement. The two exist in the same context, but cultural norms to not birth legal rights.

There's a HUGE conceptual difference. But the practical difference is much smaller. When Jason Richwine got fired from the Heritage foundation when they found out he wrote his Harvard Doctoral Dissertation on immigration and IQ (and was actually probably a correct dissertation), his legal rights weren't technically being violated. However, the cultural mob mentality still had the practical effect..
YYW
Posts: 36,394
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4/19/2016 1:49:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 5:13:39 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:54:21 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:49:34 AM, Runn92 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 4:47:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:

I'll begin, tangentially, by saying that I hate the word "cisgendered." It has such a repulsive feel, and I can't help but think that's intentional. I think of other words that start with "cis" and can't help but associating them with the word "cisgendered." Cysts; cystic fibrosis; cystic acne; cystoscopy; cystic hygroma, carcinoma, cystic echinococcosis, and I could go on.... It just sounds gross. That aside....

The theme of your post is the notion that "our rights" are being eroded away, and maybe they are, to some extent, in the sense that what was once regarded as entirely normal for people, entities, organizations, and other social structures is now changing, and that change is having really significant implications for some people. This is sort of close to the "siege mentality" you get from groups like the crazies who filmed "God's Not Dead 2" and other similar instances of cinematographic stupidity.

I would posit this to you, however... regarding these rights, before I break into the more interesting ones. Realize that there is a difference between "cultural norms" and "legal rights." What was or may have once been a cultural norm is not a legal right, even though what may have been the cultural norm once corresponded to a legal right.

1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

I'm surprised the religion aspect didn't play more into your post, because that tends to be the battle cry of most on the fringe right these days, though perhaps you're not an evangelical. Nonetheless, the right to free speech and the norm against censorship are two different things.

What's happening now is that there are very active and committed groups who operate with the specific purpose of silencing political views they object too, and go to tremendous lengths in service of that objective. The lengths range from throwing paint at people, to shouting at conservative speakers (or even liberal ones who are not totally insane) to a point where the speaker cannot talk, to engaging in political activism to keep universities empty of competing political perspectives, to pretending to suffer from mental illness (e.g. post traumatic stress disorder), or just pretending to be "traumatized" because of the presence of competing political perspectives.

Said more simply, these people feign victimhood for the purpose of co-opting political power. It's straight out of Nietzsche's Geneology of Morals, and it's repulsive. They are social justice warriors, and they are what is wrong with America.Not all liberals are like that, though, and certainly not all on the left endorse that way of thinking. Only a certain species of progressive will conduct themselves in this fashion.

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There have never been stronger gun rights protections than there are now. The notion that Obama is "taking guns away" is a myth, created by right wing pundits and gun manufacturers to boost their profits over dumb Americans political fears.

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

Yes, and this is a problem. It's been said by many that sexual assault is a crime so heinous that even innocence is no defense, and reasonably accurately. An attorney going into the business of defending boys in college accused of raping girls could make a mint. Especially given the objective stupidity of most of the complaining about "rape culture," it would be very easy and even more lucrative. You would have no shortage of clients.

That said, there was once a time when it was sort of accepted that adolescents will get drunk and do stupid things with each other in colleges throughout our fruited plains. But now, whenever a girl feels embarrassed about the guy she had sex with, she can cry rape, or sexual assault. (Curiously, the word "sexual assault" is often confused with rape. A "sexual assault" could be nothing more than a kiss on the cheek after a guy bought a girl a drink.)

But there is no such thing as "rape culture." Its an abject lie promulgated by the progressive left for the purpose of furthering their political agenda, and it's disgusting. The reason it's disgusting is because legitimate rape victims are slandered as a result of the wolf-crying that takes place now. Do you know why most rapes go un-prosecuted? It's because the culture progressives have created trivialize it, and American juries don't take it seriously anymore.

It's unrealistic to totally separate culture from our legal system.....

That's not a meaningful statement. The two exist in the same context, but cultural norms to not birth legal rights.


There's a HUGE conceptual difference. But the practical difference is much smaller. When Jason Richwine got fired from the Heritage foundation when they found out he wrote his Harvard Doctoral Dissertation on immigration and IQ (and was actually probably a correct dissertation), his legal rights weren't technically being violated. However, the cultural mob mentality still had the practical effect..

One is enforceable in law, one is not. That's the difference. Cultural norms are not legally enforceable.

The remedy in the case to which you refer would have been to have better administrators in control of their student body, and other vagrants, mongrels, and thugs who populate the "protests" left-leaning students engage in.
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lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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4/21/2016 2:25:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

3.) Right Not to Quarter Soldiers in the Home Without Permission- This only applies to actual soldiers not soldiers for "social justice"

4.) Freedom from Search and Seizure Without Warrant- This does NOT apply when it comes to college administrators trying to stamp out things deemed sexist and racist

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

6.) Right to Face Your Accuser in Court- This Also Does not Apply to males who are Accused of Rape

7.) Right to a Jury Trial in Civil Court- This Also Does not Apply to College Aged Males

8.) No Excessive Bails or Fines or Cruel and Unusual Punishment- Unless a joke or comment deemed sexist or racist is made

9.) Unenumerated Rights- This includes the right to free plan B and the right to be offended

10.) Powers Reserved to the States- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

11.) The Right for Anyone in the World to Immigrate to the United States or Else Xenophobia

Right on, but expect a visit from the police. This is deemed to be hate speech. Conform and repent....now.
Runn92
Posts: 324
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4/21/2016 6:17:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 2:25:59 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group Other than Cisgender Straight White Men (Even if that thing you said is true as most offensive things are)

2.) Right to Bear Arms- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

3.) Right Not to Quarter Soldiers in the Home Without Permission- This only applies to actual soldiers not soldiers for "social justice"

4.) Freedom from Search and Seizure Without Warrant- This does NOT apply when it comes to college administrators trying to stamp out things deemed sexist and racist

5.) Right to Due Process- Unless You're a Male Accused of Sexual Assault

6.) Right to Face Your Accuser in Court- This Also Does not Apply to males who are Accused of Rape

7.) Right to a Jury Trial in Civil Court- This Also Does not Apply to College Aged Males

8.) No Excessive Bails or Fines or Cruel and Unusual Punishment- Unless a joke or comment deemed sexist or racist is made

9.) Unenumerated Rights- This includes the right to free plan B and the right to be offended

10.) Powers Reserved to the States- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

11.) The Right for Anyone in the World to Immigrate to the United States or Else Xenophobia

Right on, but expect a visit from the police. This is deemed to be hate speech. Conform and repent....now.

That is only fair.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Of course liberals want to take away gun rights. Their success varies. In New York City it's theoretically possible to get a concealed carry permit by filing a 19 page application, but no one actually gets a permit without political connections. It's that way in most liberal domains. Heller v. D.C. was a theoretical victory for gun rights with no actual effect. Hillary wants to allow suing gun manufacturers for misuse of guns, as logical as being able to sue car manufacturers for misuse of cars. It would put all gun manufacturers out of business. That's clear intent to abolish gun ownership.
YYW
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4/21/2016 6:38:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Of course liberals want to take away gun rights. Their success varies. In New York City it's theoretically possible to get a concealed carry permit by filing a 19 page application, but no one actually gets a permit without political connections. It's that way in most liberal domains. Heller v. D.C. was a theoretical victory for gun rights with no actual effect. Hillary wants to allow suing gun manufacturers for misuse of guns, as logical as being able to sue car manufacturers for misuse of cars. It would put all gun manufacturers out of business. That's clear intent to abolish gun ownership.

I agree that Hillary's ideas about suing gun manufacturers is mindless and stupid, and the precedent there established would be unprecedentedly disastrous for any manufacturer of any product that any purchaser ever misused.
Tsar of DDO
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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4/21/2016 6:43:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Of course liberals want to take away gun rights. Their success varies. In New York City it's theoretically possible to get a concealed carry permit by filing a 19 page application, but no one actually gets a permit without political connections. It's that way in most liberal domains. Heller v. D.C. was a theoretical victory for gun rights with no actual effect. Hillary wants to allow suing gun manufacturers for misuse of guns, as logical as being able to sue car manufacturers for misuse of cars. It would put all gun manufacturers out of business. That's clear intent to abolish gun ownership.

What's your position on gun ownership?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
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"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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RoyLatham
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4/21/2016 6:57:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 6:43:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
...
What's your position on gun ownership?

I think the right to self-defense is fundamental and should not be infringed. The Second Amendment was designed as a right to self defense. The Heller case ruled that the right applied to arms that are conventional and effective, so no nukes allowed and no limitations to pointy sticks.
NothingSpecial99
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4/21/2016 6:59:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:

I can see it now, the Second American Revolution by the Social Justice Warriors. Except that instead of

"Give me liberty or give me death!"

it is

"Silence the privileged white men or I'll protest and cry!"
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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4/21/2016 7:06:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 6:57:46 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/21/2016 6:43:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
...
What's your position on gun ownership?

I think the right to self-defense is fundamental and should not be infringed. The Second Amendment was designed as a right to self defense. The Heller case ruled that the right applied to arms that are conventional and effective, so no nukes allowed and no limitations to pointy sticks.

I agree. Many people critique the Heller case, saying the Supreme Court got the ruling wrong. In my view, the reasoning was logical and the Second Amendment is straightforward, and that the ruling was accurate. What would you say to those who dismiss the Heller ruling as a SCOTUS blunder?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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4/21/2016 7:26:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Its remarkable how deluded even bright people become when trying to describe the country just because one little aspect of it isnt to their precise liking.....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/21/2016 8:12:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 7:26:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Its remarkable how deluded even bright people become when trying to describe the country just because one little aspect of it isnt to their precise liking.....

I have yet to see anyone stop stupid nasty people from saying stupid nasty things. They really need to get over themselves.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/22/2016 4:32:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 7:26:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Its remarkable how deluded even bright people become when trying to describe the country just because one little aspect of it isnt to their precise liking.....

You need to learn and use Greg Gutfeld's rebuttal: "And if you disagree with me, then you, sir, are worse than Hitler." It's more direct. Gutfeld later offered a more liberal version, "And if you disagree with me then you, sir, are a racist homophobe who wears mink."
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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4/22/2016 4:37:26 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:32:58 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/21/2016 7:26:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 4/21/2016 6:24:32 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:24:30 PM, Runn92 wrote:
1.) The Right to Free Speech- Unless You Say Something that is Deemed Offensive to Any Group....

Yes, we are in what pundit Mark Levin calls "the post-constitutional era."

Its remarkable how deluded even bright people become when trying to describe the country just because one little aspect of it isnt to their precise liking.....

You need to learn and use Greg Gutfeld's rebuttal: "And if you disagree with me, then you, sir, are worse than Hitler." It's more direct.

You need to learn that the world is far, far different from the way you perceive it to be.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/22/2016 4:46:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
One is enforceable in law, one is not. That's the difference. Cultural norms are not legally enforceable.

Cultural norms are sometimes legally enforceable.

New England has "blue laws" that require stores to close on Sunday. they were challenged on the grounds the laws were religious. The Court ruled that while the laws were originally inspired by religion, they had been in force for so long they had become traditional, and hence were allowed.

Many localities have laws against public nudity, and it usually doesn't matter if they have prohibitions or not. San Francisco abolished its laws against public nudity in a fit of modern liberalism. The result was an assemblage of naked men with cleverly decorated penises hanging around City Hall. Many residents then refused to go to City Hall. The City Council reimposed restrictions.

There are many cultural norms related to public decency that are imposed by law.
YYW
Posts: 36,394
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4/22/2016 4:48:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:46:25 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
One is enforceable in law, one is not. That's the difference. Cultural norms are not legally enforceable.

Cultural norms are sometimes legally enforceable.

Only when the norm is consistent with the law; and then they are only enforceable because they are laws, and not because they are norms.

New England has "blue laws" that require stores to close on Sunday. they were challenged on the grounds the laws were religious. The Court ruled that while the laws were originally inspired by religion, they had been in force for so long they had become traditional, and hence were allowed.

Correct.

Many localities have laws against public nudity, and it usually doesn't matter if they have prohibitions or not. San Francisco abolished its laws against public nudity in a fit of modern liberalism. The result was an assemblage of naked men with cleverly decorated penises hanging around City Hall. Many residents then refused to go to City Hall. The City Council reimposed restrictions.

Correct.

There are many cultural norms related to public decency that are imposed by law.

Yes, but the norms are only legally enforceable when they are also laws. When they are not laws, they are not legally enforceable.
Tsar of DDO
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/22/2016 4:48:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:37:26 AM, imabench wrote:
You need to learn that the world is far, far different from the way you perceive it to be.

If you disagree with me, then you, sir, are a racist homophobe who wears mink.

(You're not making an argument, just a personal attack.)
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/22/2016 4:51:45 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:48:17 AM, YYW wrote:
Yes, but the norms are only legally enforceable when they are also laws. When they are not laws, they are not legally enforceable.

Good point. Cultural norms are also enforceable as part of employment contracts and on private property.
YYW
Posts: 36,394
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4/22/2016 4:53:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:51:45 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/22/2016 4:48:17 AM, YYW wrote:
Yes, but the norms are only legally enforceable when they are also laws. When they are not laws, they are not legally enforceable.

Good point. Cultural norms are also enforceable as part of employment contracts and on private property.

Contracts are legally enforceable, usually. There are some kinds of contracts that are not enforceable, because they offend, you guessed it, norms which are reflected in laws.
Tsar of DDO
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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4/22/2016 4:54:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:48:43 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/22/2016 4:37:26 AM, imabench wrote:
You need to learn that the world is far, far different from the way you perceive it to be.

If you disagree with me, then you, sir, are a racist homophobe who wears mink.

(You're not making an argument, just a personal attack.)

Im using you as an example of how even (allegedly) smart people can sometimes be completely delusional
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
YYW
Posts: 36,394
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4/22/2016 4:54:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:48:43 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/22/2016 4:37:26 AM, imabench wrote:
You need to learn that the world is far, far different from the way you perceive it to be.

If you disagree with me, then you, sir, are a racist homophobe who wears mink.

(You're not making an argument, just a personal attack.)

Don't hate on those who wear mink... lol

Gutfeld always had the air for the dramatic
Tsar of DDO
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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4/22/2016 6:12:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:54:38 AM, imabench wrote:

Im using you as an example of how even (allegedly) smart people can sometimes be completely delusional

No, you are not. You are making a claim without proof, exactly at the level of "you are racist homophobe who wears mink." An "example" is something accepted as true or proved true. You offer absolutely nothing beyond your personal insult. Why don't you formulate something as a debate resolution, like "Anyone who thinks liberals want to take away guns is delusional."? Then I will at least know what you are claiming.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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4/22/2016 6:16:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 6:12:49 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 4/22/2016 4:54:38 AM, imabench wrote:

Im using you as an example of how even (allegedly) smart people can sometimes be completely delusional

No, you are not. You are making a claim without proof, exactly at the level of "you are racist homophobe who wears mink." An "example" is something accepted as true or proved true. You offer absolutely nothing beyond your personal insult.

If I really have to explain to you why we are not living in a 'Post-Constitutional' society, then you simply are not worth the time or effort to have the conversation in the first place.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015