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Should Employers be Able to Discriminate?

Contra
Posts: 3,941
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4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,382
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4/23/2016 2:23:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I'm not sure about complete freedom, but for the most part... Yea they should.

Personally, I would try to avoid hiring certain people due to problems it may create in the future, but I wouldn't generalize them without even getting to know them.

Of course, for something like the following scenario, where a black guy has far more qualifications than the white guy, but the white guy is selected for the job, some justice ought to be served, but for the most part, I'd side with the employer.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
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4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,382
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4/23/2016 2:31:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?

Why would a Nun be applying for a job?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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4/23/2016 2:34:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?

They don't cover their faces, do they, so yes, I might if I liked them.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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4/23/2016 2:36:35 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?

I wouldn't have a problem with a Muslim woman with a head scarf. How much more clear can I be?
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
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4/23/2016 2:38:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:31:42 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?

Why would a Nun be applying for a job?

Nuns are dominating the IT field: http://images.inmagine.com...
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/23/2016 2:39:20 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I don't think in a general sense that anyone should be discriminated against in the work place due to sexual preference, gender identification, color, or religion. Everyone should be able to have an equal right to earn a living. But there are some instances when a position requires a lot of face time with the public that certain considerations do come into play. Examples being in the retail or hospitality industries, where a certain appearance " being the norm" is expected. Family restaurants with front of the house personnel that have body modifications, excessive tattoos or wearing a burka would not be appropriate.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,382
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4/23/2016 2:40:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:38:33 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:31:42 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?

Why would a Nun be applying for a job?

Nuns are dominating the IT field: http://images.inmagine.com...

This picture doesn't prove that lol....
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
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4/23/2016 2:43:09 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:40:30 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:38:33 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:31:42 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:27:06 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

So you wouldn't hire Nuns or Orthodox Jewish women?

Why would a Nun be applying for a job?

Nuns are dominating the IT field: http://images.inmagine.com...

This picture doesn't prove that lol....

Have you tried turning it off and back on again? http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

Have you tried praising the lord? http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

Are you telling me that nun of the troubleshooting worked? http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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4/23/2016 8:59:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
In terms of hiring, employers can discriminate...sort of. Based on merit and qualifications, anyway.

In terms of services/goods provided, no.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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4/23/2016 12:19:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

What exactly is this suppose to accomplish?
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
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4/24/2016 3:13:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I think of it as no, the government should not force businesses to serve anyone and everyone who comes through the door, or force quotas. Unfortunately, there is legal precedent with the 64' Civil Rights Act which I disagree with in the sense that it pretty much forces the things I've mentioned above.

Forcing people to go against their will has a very bad track record in history. IE. Post Civil War south, the KKK, terrorist groups in the Middle East etc. Common theme: being forced by an outside entity or government to change your society only causes more division, and more violence dealt by dissenters. So with the transgender debate, if businesses are forced to hire a transgender against their will, they're likely going to just dislike transgender people even more.

Also, looking at HB2 and similar bills, it's highly unlikely that Trans people would even shop at places that would discriminate against them in the first place or that they would seek a job at places that would discriminate against them either, so when these transgender people say that this law is deeply affecting them, it's complete bullsh*t.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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4/24/2016 3:26:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:50:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I would never hire a woman wearing a face covering. I find that practice so offensive.

I'd like to see a Hooters server in a full Burka...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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4/24/2016 3:27:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

You are only talking about hiring, not right to refuse service...correct?
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/24/2016 3:29:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 3:13:15 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I think of it as no, the government should not force businesses to serve anyone and everyone who comes through the door, or force quotas. Unfortunately, there is legal precedent with the 64' Civil Rights Act which I disagree with in the sense that it pretty much forces the things I've mentioned above.

I think if you work in the public sector benefiting off the public and economy to earn a living no one should be discriminated against; i.e.. not baking a cake for a gay wedding should not be allowed.

Forcing people to go against their will has a very bad track record in history. IE. Post Civil War south, the KKK, terrorist groups in the Middle East etc. Common theme: being forced by an outside entity or government to change your society only causes more division, and more violence dealt by dissenters. So with the transgender debate, if businesses are forced to hire a transgender against their will, they're likely going to just dislike transgender people even more.

I think the transgender thing is very overblown since there really are so few of them in the population. And I don't understand why anyone would care if someone is transgendered, they have the appearance of their desired gender. You don't see bearded transgendered women walking around. What society as a whole tries to accomplish is a balance of inclusiveness and best interest of the whole. There will always be outliers of dissidents, such as the KKK, which are a very minority that do more harm than good on a societal level.

Also, looking at HB2 and similar bills, it's highly unlikely that Trans people would even shop at places that would discriminate against them in the first place or that they would seek a job at places that would discriminate against them either, so when these transgender people say that this law is deeply affecting them, it's complete bullsh*t.

Have no idea what HB2, the limiting of access to abortions, has to do with transgender issues.
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
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4/24/2016 3:57:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 3:29:32 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/24/2016 3:13:15 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I think of it as no, the government should not force businesses to serve anyone and everyone who comes through the door, or force quotas. Unfortunately, there is legal precedent with the 64' Civil Rights Act which I disagree with in the sense that it pretty much forces the things I've mentioned above.

I think if you work in the public sector benefiting off the public and economy to earn a living no one should be discriminated against; i.e.. not baking a cake for a gay wedding should not be allowed.
Why can't a business serve who it wants? Refusing to bake the cake for them only means they lose profit.
Forcing people to go against their will has a very bad track record in history. IE. Post Civil War south, the KKK, terrorist groups in the Middle East etc. Common theme: being forced by an outside entity or government to change your society only causes more division, and more violence dealt by dissenters. So with the transgender debate, if businesses are forced to hire a transgender against their will, they're likely going to just dislike transgender people even more.



I think the transgender thing is very overblown since there really are so few of them in the population. And I don't understand why anyone would care if someone is transgendered, they have the appearance of their desired gender. You don't see bearded transgendered women walking around. What society as a whole tries to accomplish is a balance of inclusiveness and best interest of the whole. There will always be outliers of dissidents, such as the KKK, which are a very minority that do more harm than good on a societal level.
There always will be, if we continue to force people to go against their beliefs and/or fundamentally change their society.
Also, looking at HB2 and similar bills, it's highly unlikely that Trans people would even shop at places that would discriminate against them in the first place or that they would seek a job at places that would discriminate against them either, so when these transgender people say that this law is deeply affecting them, it's complete bullsh*t.

Have no idea what HB2, the limiting of access to abortions, has to do with transgender issues.

http://abcnews.go.com...
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/24/2016 4:10:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 3:57:30 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 3:29:32 PM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/24/2016 3:13:15 PM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 12:42:52 AM, Contra wrote:
I am currently trying to make up my mind on whether or not employers should be able to have complete freedom over who they choose to hire. Should employers be able to hire whoever they want, even if it comes at the expense of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT individuals, etc.?

Does anyone know of any good debates or websites that mentions this dilemma in length?

I think of it as no, the government should not force businesses to serve anyone and everyone who comes through the door, or force quotas. Unfortunately, there is legal precedent with the 64' Civil Rights Act which I disagree with in the sense that it pretty much forces the things I've mentioned above.

I think if you work in the public sector benefiting off the public and economy to earn a living no one should be discriminated against; i.e.. not baking a cake for a gay wedding should not be allowed.
Why can't a business serve who it wants? Refusing to bake the cake for them only means they lose profit.

You would think that loosing profit would be motivation not to discriminate. Refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple based on the owners religious stance is religious based bigotry and should not be permitted.

Forcing people to go against their will has a very bad track record in history. IE. Post Civil War south, the KKK, terrorist groups in the Middle East etc. Common theme: being forced by an outside entity or government to change your society only causes more division, and more violence dealt by dissenters. So with the transgender debate, if businesses are forced to hire a transgender against their will, they're likely going to just dislike transgender people even more.



I think the transgender thing is very overblown since there really are so few of them in the population. And I don't understand why anyone would care if someone is transgendered, they have the appearance of their desired gender. You don't see bearded transgendered women walking around. What society as a whole tries to accomplish is a balance of inclusiveness and best interest of the whole. There will always be outliers of dissidents, such as the KKK, which are a very minority that do more harm than good on a societal level.

There always will be, if we continue to force people to go against their beliefs and/or fundamentally change their society.

Bigotry is not a belief system it's ignorance and stupidity. Do you think the premise of the KKK is beneficial to society?

Also, looking at HB2 and similar bills, it's highly unlikely that Trans people would even shop at places that would discriminate against them in the first place or that they would seek a job at places that would discriminate against them either, so when these transgender people say that this law is deeply affecting them, it's complete bullsh*t.

Have no idea what HB2, the limiting of access to abortions, has to do with transgender issues.

http://abcnews.go.com...

I was looking at the Texas bill. Still I think this is so dumb. There are bigger issues than this to be concerned about. I don't see a problem with a trangendered male using a female bathroom. There are stalls for privacy. Another media fear tactic leading the public to believe that those who are different pose a threat, which isn't the case. The only time people use a rest room is to relieve themselves, then leave. There's no socializing going on, just a function.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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4/24/2016 4:43:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 8:59:59 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
In terms of hiring, employers can discriminate...sort of. Based on merit and qualifications, anyway.

https://www.hooters.com...
bhakun
Posts: 231
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4/24/2016 5:49:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Personally, I don't think racism, sexism, homophobia, etc... should be accepted.

A business discriminating for the reasons you mentioned is disgusting.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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4/24/2016 5:58:40 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 4:43:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:59:59 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
In terms of hiring, employers can discriminate...sort of. Based on merit and qualifications, anyway.

https://www.hooters.com...

Disgusting. Ugh.
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/24/2016 5:58:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 4:43:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:59:59 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
In terms of hiring, employers can discriminate...sort of. Based on merit and qualifications, anyway.

https://www.hooters.com...

I can't aspire to the heights of a Hooters girl, too old, too plump and my eyebrows are just too normal looking, drats!