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Trump may be as socially liberal as Clinton

1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
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4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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4/23/2016 3:42:01 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Trump is socially conservative now,because he is a Republican primary. Trump will become more socially liberal in the general election to appeal, as that is what the voters want. Who knows what Trump actually believes. He will say anything to get elected.
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/23/2016 3:42:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Lol, it's so obvious that Trump doesn't give a fvck about abortion. He tried talking around the question as much as possible in order to hide his pro-choice views (which he has expressed numerous times prior to the election), and when he was finally forced to answer, he misread what the conservative position on abortion is because he's put so little thought into the issue. Chris Matthews did a pretty good job of screwing him over on that point, but I think anyone with a brain can see what's really going on. The reality is that Trump is thoroughly pro-choice, to the point that he doesn't even think it should be an issue.
#TrumpTriumph2016
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/23/2016 3:43:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Generally speaking, I don't disagree with this.

Clinton's comments on Reagan made me puke,
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
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4/23/2016 3:58:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:42:01 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Trump is socially conservative now,because he is a Republican primary. Trump will become more socially liberal in the general election to appeal, as that is what the voters want. Who knows what Trump actually believes. He will say anything to get elected.

Trump probably believes what he's been saying for the entirety of his public life except for when he's trying to make the media give him attention.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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4/23/2016 4:06:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:58:06 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:42:01 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Trump is socially conservative now,because he is a Republican primary. Trump will become more socially liberal in the general election to appeal, as that is what the voters want. Who knows what Trump actually believes. He will say anything to get elected.

Trump probably believes what he's been saying for the entirety of his public life except for when he's trying to make the media give him attention.

But I feel like Trump is almost always trying to get the media to give him attention, meaning that he never says what he means.
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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4/23/2016 4:08:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

I'm glad to see that people are starting to realize this, because it's what I've been seeing since the very start of this whole process.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

Indeed.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Indeed.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

What he said was "some form of punishment," which could have, and I think did, mean "individual guilt" or something like that.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

He is.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Trump is a stepping stone from backwards dumbassed social policies, to the future.
Tsar of DDO
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/23/2016 4:08:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

That's because Trump never was a real conservative. He's always been socially liberal, fiscally moderate, but almost totalitarian on some issues. He's his own ideology.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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4/23/2016 4:09:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:43:30 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Generally speaking, I don't disagree with this.

Clinton's comments on Reagan made me puke,

I have disliked Hillary Clinton for some time. Her comments about Nancy Reagan were repulsive.

Nancy Reagan's policy towards aids victims was simple: die quickly.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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4/23/2016 4:34:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 4:08:49 PM, tajshar2k wrote:

That's because Trump never was a real conservative. He's always been socially liberal, fiscally moderate, but almost totalitarian on some issues. He's his own ideology.

New York Values. Nuff said.
Greyparrot
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4/23/2016 4:38:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 4:08:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

I'm glad to see that people are starting to realize this, because it's what I've been seeing since the very start of this whole process.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

Indeed.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Indeed.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

What he said was "some form of punishment," which could have, and I think did, mean "individual guilt" or something like that.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

He is.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Trump is a stepping stone from backwards dumbassed social policies, to the future.

Only the smart people are going to see this YYW. He just needs to continue conning the stupid voters to secure the power.

As an aside, it really is funny to have such a litmus test for stupidity when people post on DDO that Trump is going to destroy the country and start WW3.. (as if we are to believe he did all this solely for the purpose to blow up his life savings in real estate...)
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,819
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4/23/2016 5:29:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

That's right, come over to the Trump side.
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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4/23/2016 5:44:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:42:46 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
Lol, it's so obvious that Trump doesn't give a fvck about abortion. He tried talking around the question as much as possible in order to hide his pro-choice views (which he has expressed numerous times prior to the election), and when he was finally forced to answer, he misread what the conservative position on abortion is because he's put so little thought into the issue. Chris Matthews did a pretty good job of screwing him over on that point, but I think anyone with a brain can see what's really going on. The reality is that Trump is thoroughly pro-choice, to the point that he doesn't even think it should be an issue.

Which is part of the problem with Trump. The man is running for president, how on earth has he not thought about his position on abortion? It's one of the most basic of all political positions one could take.
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/23/2016 6:02:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 5:44:28 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:42:46 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
Lol, it's so obvious that Trump doesn't give a fvck about abortion. He tried talking around the question as much as possible in order to hide his pro-choice views (which he has expressed numerous times prior to the election), and when he was finally forced to answer, he misread what the conservative position on abortion is because he's put so little thought into the issue. Chris Matthews did a pretty good job of screwing him over on that point, but I think anyone with a brain can see what's really going on. The reality is that Trump is thoroughly pro-choice, to the point that he doesn't even think it should be an issue.

Which is part of the problem with Trump. The man is running for president, how on earth has he not thought about his position on abortion? It's one of the most basic of all political positions one could take.

He does have a position on it -- that it's a dead issue, and that legalized abortion is here to stay. As a result, he didn't put much thought into it as far as his political platform is concerned, and that's why he stumbled when directly confronted about it.

I like the fact that he's moving the focus of the Republican policy agenda away from embarrassing social conservatism. Don't you?
#TrumpTriumph2016
Double_R
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4/23/2016 6:08:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:02:29 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 5:44:28 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:42:46 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
Lol, it's so obvious that Trump doesn't give a fvck about abortion. He tried talking around the question as much as possible in order to hide his pro-choice views (which he has expressed numerous times prior to the election), and when he was finally forced to answer, he misread what the conservative position on abortion is because he's put so little thought into the issue. Chris Matthews did a pretty good job of screwing him over on that point, but I think anyone with a brain can see what's really going on. The reality is that Trump is thoroughly pro-choice, to the point that he doesn't even think it should be an issue.

Which is part of the problem with Trump. The man is running for president, how on earth has he not thought about his position on abortion? It's one of the most basic of all political positions one could take.

He does have a position on it -- that it's a dead issue, and that legalized abortion is here to stay.

That's not a position on abortion, that's a position on the productivity of arguing about it. However that position is absolutely wrong. State legislatures and even congress for that matter have been more focused on abortion in recent years than any other social issue and possibly more so that any issue at all.

I like the fact that he's moving the focus of the Republican policy agenda away from embarrassing social conservatism. Don't you?

I wouldn't call declaring that we need to keep all the Muslims and raping Mexicans (but some of them are probably good) from entering our country to be a relief from embarrassing social conservatism.
TrumpTriumph
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4/23/2016 6:40:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:08:47 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:02:29 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:

He does have a position on it -- that it's a dead issue, and that legalized abortion is here to stay.

That's not a position on abortion, that's a position on the productivity of arguing about it. However that position is absolutely wrong. State legislatures and even congress for that matter have been more focused on abortion in recent years than any other social issue and possibly more so that any issue at all.

That's just Republicans deluding themselves into thinking they can remain relevant by appealing to Christian morals. The reality is that until Roe vs. Wade is overturned (i.e. never), abortion is a dead issue.


I like the fact that he's moving the focus of the Republican policy agenda away from embarrassing social conservatism. Don't you?

I wouldn't call declaring that we need to keep all the Muslims and raping Mexicans (but some of them are probably good) from entering our country to be a relief from embarrassing social conservatism.

I'm not going to bother engaging with someone who refuses to honestly portray the positions he's attacking.
#TrumpTriumph2016
Double_R
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4/23/2016 6:51:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:40:54 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:08:47 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:02:29 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:

He does have a position on it -- that it's a dead issue, and that legalized abortion is here to stay.

That's not a position on abortion, that's a position on the productivity of arguing about it. However that position is absolutely wrong. State legislatures and even congress for that matter have been more focused on abortion in recent years than any other social issue and possibly more so that any issue at all.

That's just Republicans deluding themselves into thinking they can remain relevant by appealing to Christian morals. The reality is that until Roe vs. Wade is overturned (i.e. never), abortion is a dead issue.

I would like to see how you explain that to all of the women in red states across the country who have to travel out of state to have an abortion because the nearest clinic that is allowed to provide them is hundreds of miles away.

I like the fact that he's moving the focus of the Republican policy agenda away from embarrassing social conservatism. Don't you?

I wouldn't call declaring that we need to keep all the Muslims and raping Mexicans (but some of them are probably good) from entering our country to be a relief from embarrassing social conservatism.

I'm not going to bother engaging with someone who refuses to honestly portray the positions he's attacking.

Are you kidding me? Really? He has made his positions explicitly clear.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/23/2016 7:03:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 4:09:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:43:30 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Generally speaking, I don't disagree with this.

Clinton's comments on Reagan made me puke,

I have disliked Hillary Clinton for some time. Her comments about Nancy Reagan were repulsive.

Nancy Reagan's policy towards aids victims was simple: die quickly.

She will get the nomination, she will win the general, but the OP is dead on. She is not my friend, never has been.

If I have to make the point 1000x more times, so be it. That Nancy Reagan thing was the slap in the face of many friends that broke my back. She has do do a whole lot of mending to even get my vote at this point.
Greyparrot
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4/23/2016 7:42:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:51:58 PM, Double_R wrote:

I wouldn't call declaring that we need to keep all the Muslims and raping Mexicans (but some of them are probably good) from entering our country to be a relief from embarrassing social conservatism.

I'm not going to bother engaging with someone who refuses to honestly portray the positions he's attacking.

Are you kidding me? Really? He has made his positions explicitly clear.

He never said keep out, he said a temporary ban till we can fix guvmint.
If you ask supporters why Trump is building a wall, at least 95% will say it will be to keep the Mexicans out. Why? Because that is what Trump has said and repeated far more than his original claim of just keeping Mexican rapists out. However, if the only way you can justify your narrative is to cling to his original statement, like the far right cling to guns and religion, then don't be surprised when the world passes you by.
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/23/2016 7:54:04 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:51:58 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:40:54 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:

That's just Republicans deluding themselves into thinking they can remain relevant by appealing to Christian morals. The reality is that until Roe vs. Wade is overturned (i.e. never), abortion is a dead issue.

I would like to see how you explain that to all of the women in red states across the country who have to travel out of state to have an abortion because the nearest clinic that is allowed to provide them is hundreds of miles away.

That's simply a matter of enforcing existing laws... "pro-choice" is already the law of the land, and states which continue pushing pro-life legislation are in violation of it. Trump has clarified since his CNN townhall mishap that he sides with the law of the land.


Are you kidding me? Really? He has made his positions explicitly clear.

Yes, he has made it explicitly clear that he supports securing the US-Mexico border for the sake of reducing criminal activity, and that we need to fix our immigrant-screening procedures in order to preserve national security. Such insane positions.
#TrumpTriumph2016
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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4/23/2016 8:28:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:42:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:51:58 PM, Double_R wrote:

I wouldn't call declaring that we need to keep all the Muslims and raping Mexicans (but some of them are probably good) from entering our country to be a relief from embarrassing social conservatism.

I'm not going to bother engaging with someone who refuses to honestly portray the positions he's attacking.

Are you kidding me? Really? He has made his positions explicitly clear.

He never said keep out, he said a temporary ban till we can fix guvmint.

I love (not really) how Trump supporters always cling to this idea of the ban being "temporary till we fix government". That is just plain stupid. First of all Trump can't even tell us what is wrong with government other than calling people names. This is one of the few arguments that just takes me past the point of irritation at how intelligent people can sink themselves to such silly and childish nonsense.

If you ask supporters why Trump is building a wall, at least 95% will say it will be to keep the Mexicans out. Why? Because that is what Trump has said and repeated far more than his original claim of just keeping Mexican rapists out. However, if the only way you can justify your narrative is to cling to his original statement, like the far right cling to guns and religion, then don't be surprised when the world passes you by.

You like to pretend that Trump did not double down on his original statement multiple times after being pressed on it. Sounds like you are the one burying your head in the sand as the world passes you by.
Double_R
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4/23/2016 8:33:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:54:04 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:51:58 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:40:54 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:

That's just Republicans deluding themselves into thinking they can remain relevant by appealing to Christian morals. The reality is that until Roe vs. Wade is overturned (i.e. never), abortion is a dead issue.

I would like to see how you explain that to all of the women in red states across the country who have to travel out of state to have an abortion because the nearest clinic that is allowed to provide them is hundreds of miles away.

That's simply a matter of enforcing existing laws... "pro-choice" is already the law of the land, and states which continue pushing pro-life legislation are in violation of it. Trump has clarified since his CNN townhall mishap that he sides with the law of the land.

Enforcing existing laws? You must be new to politics. Please educate yourself on the the laws past during the Obama era. In fact here, I'll help you out...

https://www.guttmacher.org...

Are you kidding me? Really? He has made his positions explicitly clear.

Yes, he has made it explicitly clear that he supports securing the US-Mexico border for the sake of reducing criminal activity, and that we need to fix our immigrant-screening procedures in order to preserve national security. Such insane positions.

If you are not going to acknowledge what he has actually said than I see no point in continuing.
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/23/2016 8:40:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 8:33:06 PM, Double_R wrote:

https://www.guttmacher.org...

That, in no way, contradicts what I've said. The fact remains that most of those laws are unconstitutional, and will remain as such unless Roe vs. Wade is overturned.


If you are not going to acknowledge what he has actually said than I see no point in continuing.

Right. I should harp on convenient soundbites from his impromptu speeches, rather than focusing on what he's actually proposing.
#TrumpTriumph2016
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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4/23/2016 8:40:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:03:16 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/23/2016 4:09:06 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:43:30 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:28:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
...if not more.

He'll probably be the first Republican to outright accept LGBT rights, as shown even further by his impulse being to criticize the North Carolina law. He's expressed support for gay rights - including anti-discrimination laws and analyzing his statements show no problem with the idea gays can marry.

In fact, he might have been (definitely was) ahead on Clinton on all of those things. Really - meanwhile, Clinton praises Nancy Reagan for her effect on the AIDs epidemic.

Only an idiot would buy into his "punishment" statement on abortion. That was a classic Trump move - say something ridiculous like a hardliner to get the media in an outrage for three or four days.

Aside from his immigration policy, I would even bet he is more socially liberal than Clinton - though his policy would claim that his reasons for stricter laws are economic.

When the general rolls around, and Trump is facing off against her, I don't expect him to flip for media attention - his true colors will come out, and if anyone has cared to look they're probably more liberal than the Democratic front-runner.

Generally speaking, I don't disagree with this.

Clinton's comments on Reagan made me puke,

I have disliked Hillary Clinton for some time. Her comments about Nancy Reagan were repulsive.

Nancy Reagan's policy towards aids victims was simple: die quickly.

She will get the nomination, she will win the general, but the OP is dead on. She is not my friend, never has been.

I agree that the OP is dead on, but I'm less certain that Hillary can beat Donald Trump in the general election.

There is an incredibly high percentage of voters, an alarming percentage if you are in the Hillary camp, who will simply stay home if Bernie does not get the nomination. Moreover, Trump quite literally draws Democrats away, and into the Republican party. So, those are the two levels of woe she faces, in addition to the fact that she is about as inspiring as a bowl of pasta salad. Never have I seen before a Democratic candidate whose platform is "Nope, enough of this pie in the sky nonsense. We cannot do that."

If I have to make the point 1000x more times, so be it. That Nancy Reagan thing was the slap in the face of many friends that broke my back. She has do do a whole lot of mending to even get my vote at this point.
Tsar of DDO
Double_R
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4/23/2016 9:03:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 8:40:06 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:33:06 PM, Double_R wrote:

https://www.guttmacher.org...

That, in no way, contradicts what I've said. The fact remains that most of those laws are unconstitutional, and will remain as such unless Roe vs. Wade is overturned.

What on earth are you talking about? We were (or so I thought) having a discussion on whether abortion is a "dead issue". I just showed you why it is not a dead issue.

If you are not going to acknowledge what he has actually said than I see no point in continuing.

Right. I should harp on convenient soundbites from his impromptu speeches, rather than focusing on what he's actually proposing.

We were talking about his positions, not his proposals. But if you want to talk about his proposals then here, knock yourself out
https://www.youtube.com...
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/23/2016 9:11:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 9:03:22 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:40:06 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:33:06 PM, Double_R wrote:

https://www.guttmacher.org...

That, in no way, contradicts what I've said. The fact remains that most of those laws are unconstitutional, and will remain as such unless Roe vs. Wade is overturned.

What on earth are you talking about? We were (or so I thought) having a discussion on whether abortion is a "dead issue". I just showed you why it is not a dead issue.

No, you showed that Republicans are (illegally) subverting the law by criminalizing abortion. That doesn't change the fact that abortion has been officially considered a constitutional right for almost half a century, and that Trump agrees with keeping it that way.


If you are not going to acknowledge what he has actually said than I see no point in continuing.

Right. I should harp on convenient soundbites from his impromptu speeches, rather than focusing on what he's actually proposing.

We were talking about his positions, not his proposals.

Same sh1t.
#TrumpTriumph2016
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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4/23/2016 9:29:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 9:11:35 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 9:03:22 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:40:06 PM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/23/2016 8:33:06 PM, Double_R wrote:

https://www.guttmacher.org...

That, in no way, contradicts what I've said. The fact remains that most of those laws are unconstitutional, and will remain as such unless Roe vs. Wade is overturned.

What on earth are you talking about? We were (or so I thought) having a discussion on whether abortion is a "dead issue". I just showed you why it is not a dead issue.

No, you showed that Republicans are (illegally) subverting the law by criminalizing abortion. That doesn't change the fact that abortion has been officially considered a constitutional right for almost half a century, and that Trump agrees with keeping it that way.

I suggest you spend some time actually studying this. The laws have already been challenged in the courts and have been declared legal. In some cases they went to far and were struck down. The reason they were struck down is because abortion is a constitutional right, something Trump will likely seek to change by appointing conservative judges.

Saying that abortion is officially considered a constitutional right while republicans have been and continue to make it a practical impossibility for millions of women in this country is completely pointless.

Once again... Abortion is, whether you acknowledge it or not, one of the biggest and most contentious issues this country is dealing with and the republican front runner has according to you spent almost no time thinking about it. You can spin that however you want, those are the facts.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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4/23/2016 9:36:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 8:28:48 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:42:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:51:58 PM, Double_R wrote:

I wouldn't call declaring that we need to keep all the Muslims and raping Mexicans (but some of them are probably good) from entering our country to be a relief from embarrassing social conservatism.

I'm not going to bother engaging with someone who refuses to honestly portray the positions he's attacking.

Are you kidding me? Really? He has made his positions explicitly clear.

He never said keep out, he said a temporary ban till we can fix guvmint.

I love (not really) how Trump supporters always cling to this idea of the ban being "temporary till we fix government". That is just plain stupid. First of all Trump can't even tell us what is wrong with government other than calling people names. This is one of the few arguments that just takes me past the point of irritation at how intelligent people can sink themselves to such silly and childish nonsense.

None of his supporters need convincing that the govmit iz broked.
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/23/2016 10:15:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 9:29:33 PM, Double_R wrote:

I suggest you spend some time actually studying this. The laws have already been challenged in the courts and have been declared legal. In some cases they went to far and were struck down.

Sure, I'll look into it some more, but from what I've read, the latter outcome has been far more common. Abortion is a constitutional right, and this is all simply a matter of enforcing that right. It has to be carried out via the judicial branch of our government.

The reason they were struck down is because abortion is a constitutional right, something Trump will likely seek to change by appointing conservative judges.

There is no evidence to suggest that Trump will be appointing socially conservative judges.


Saying that abortion is officially considered a constitutional right while republicans have been and continue to make it a practical impossibility for millions of women in this country is completely pointless.

Once again... Abortion is, whether you acknowledge it or not, one of the biggest and most contentious issues this country is dealing with and the republican front runner has according to you spent almost no time thinking about it. You can spin that however you want, those are the facts.

Yeah, he spent no time thinking about it because he takes it for granted that abortion should remain legal. He prefers to focus on economic and foreign policy issues, because those issues are far more important, and he can actually have a direct impact on them.
#TrumpTriumph2016
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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4/23/2016 10:54:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
This OP is clearly backed up by all the incredible resources the GOP has spent to eliminate Trump, not because he is a nutjob, but because Trump clearly will destroy many of the foundations of the establishment GOP (mostly the radical right positions).

Trump's populist appeal for a pragmatic security/economy mixed with New York social values clearly do not benefit the establishment GOP.

The establishment GOP wants to retain the world police/military industry on the security front, the crony bribery economy, and religious right social policies. The public is tired of these archaic/corrupt policies that don't work.

Trump is 180 degrees backwards against these positions, despite how much people want to believe he is not. He simply won't fit into your neat little GOP mold, and the people love him for that.