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How I would Deal with ISIS

YYW
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4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.
Tsar of DDO
TBR
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4/27/2016 10:39:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

"permanently kill " - snicker....

Anyway. I am not nearly as opposed to colonization as I would be to "nation building". I want to leave them the he11 alone, and get off the gas, but there is plenty to like in your proposal. If we want to be all war-mongering, just fess the he11 up to it, call it our land, and rape it for its resources. Baring that, just put up a virtual wall, put money and resources into finding and stopping nutbags of all stripes, and move the he11 on in finding better sources of energy.
TBR
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4/27/2016 10:43:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
There was a particular member who spent lots of time insisting that the middle-east was so valuable to the west aside from oil. My point was, it is a he11 and I have no need for any part of it. The idea that the land is useful for anything but storing oil under the greatest collection of religious nutbags ever assembled is crazy talk. Its like the appalachian coal in the US...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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4/27/2016 11:46:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:43:53 PM, TBR wrote:
There was a particular member who spent lots of time insisting that the middle-east was so valuable to the west aside from oil. My point was, it is a he11 and I have no need for any part of it. The idea that the land is useful for anything but storing oil under the greatest collection of religious nutbags ever assembled is crazy talk. Its like the appalachian coal in the US...

You can say "hell", you know.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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4/27/2016 11:50:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

This is actually pretty effective in achieving the ultimate endgoal of all foreign policy: world domination. One country down, (all countries #-1) to go. Also hindered russia, just make sure not to invade in the winter...
slo1
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4/28/2016 12:05:41 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

You can count Canada out. They have zero benefit to flood the oil markets seeing how they are an exporter of oil.

Also Iraqi oil output has been breaking records all year long. How much more can you get out of the ground with current infanstructure?

Lastly your attempt to kill every ISIS member would not work. As you occupy to control the land you would create non-isis opposition who would join with ISIS opposition. You wouldnt know who to kill other than everyone. If GWB couldn't eliminate radical Islamic terrorism from Iraq in 7 years what makes you think you could?
YYW
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4/28/2016 12:28:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 12:05:41 AM, slo1 wrote:
If GWB couldn't eliminate radical Islamic terrorism from Iraq in 7 years what makes you think you could?

Not handing it to the likes of Dick Cheney's war puppets. No private military contractors.
Tsar of DDO
Sam7411
Posts: 959
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4/28/2016 12:50:02 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
These counties how shown unwillingness to cooperate to defeat ISIS in the past. Why now?

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.
Do you really think those liberal, highly PC and supposedly non violent nations will agree to colonizing that region? How would you divide the colony, further splitting up ethnic and religious groups would be required. They have a right to their own land. The UN would try everything to stop the colonization, forever isolating the US.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices
The amount of money, and oil, generated by other OPEC far outweighs Iraq. it would have little to no effect. Also, why alienate a region we are trying to stabilize?.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.
Illegal by International law seizing that oil.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.
Yet to describe how you'll do it, I mean kill ISIS

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

Yet you want to economically weaken them somehow with your supposed great amounts of Iraqi oil

Sorry about my choppy response in trying to type on my phone while eating
Sam7411
Posts: 959
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4/28/2016 1:06:02 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 12:50:02 AM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
These counties how shown unwillingness to cooperate to defeat ISIS in the past. Why now?

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.
Do you really think those liberal, highly PC and supposedly non violent nations will agree to colonizing that region? How would you divide the colony, further splitting up ethnic and religious groups would be required. They have a right to their own land. The UN would try everything to stop the colonization, forever isolating the US.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices
The amount of money, and oil, generated by other OPEC far outweighs Iraq. it would have little to no effect. Also, why alienate a region we are trying to stabilize?.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.
Illegal by International law seizing that oil.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.
Yet to describe how you'll do it, I mean kill ISIS

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

Yet you want to economically weaken them somehow with your supposed great amounts of Iraqi oil


Sorry about my choppy response in trying to type on my phone while eating

And really. How do you think Iraq and Syria will feel about this. Colonization would only increase the anger of the west tenfold. This will only cause billions of dollars spent for increased counterinsurgency, political and jihadist revolutions, get us kicked out of NATO and UN, affirm the mantra of Imperial America, and deny the basic rights of those cultures to govern their own land
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/28/2016 1:24:36 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 11:46:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:43:53 PM, TBR wrote:
There was a particular member who spent lots of time insisting that the middle-east was so valuable to the west aside from oil. My point was, it is a he11 and I have no need for any part of it. The idea that the land is useful for anything but storing oil under the greatest collection of religious nutbags ever assembled is crazy talk. Its like the appalachian coal in the US...

You can say "hell", you know.

I'm surprised I can say boo with the filter the way it is.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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4/28/2016 1:27:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

A noble goal to wipe out a terrorist organization. But the land is not theirs. It belongs to the people who live there. Once we rid them of the terrorists, they will expect the land back. We're past the days of colonization.
TBR
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4/28/2016 1:29:22 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 1:06:02 AM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 4/28/2016 12:50:02 AM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
These counties how shown unwillingness to cooperate to defeat ISIS in the past. Why now?

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.
Do you really think those liberal, highly PC and supposedly non violent nations will agree to colonizing that region? How would you divide the colony, further splitting up ethnic and religious groups would be required. They have a right to their own land. The UN would try everything to stop the colonization, forever isolating the US.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices
The amount of money, and oil, generated by other OPEC far outweighs Iraq. it would have little to no effect. Also, why alienate a region we are trying to stabilize?.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.
Illegal by International law seizing that oil.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.
Yet to describe how you'll do it, I mean kill ISIS

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

Yet you want to economically weaken them somehow with your supposed great amounts of Iraqi oil


Sorry about my choppy response in trying to type on my phone while eating

And really. How do you think Iraq and Syria will feel about this. Colonization would only increase the anger of the west tenfold. This will only cause billions of dollars spent for increased counterinsurgency, political and jihadist revolutions, get us kicked out of NATO and UN, affirm the mantra of Imperial America, and deny the basic rights of those cultures to govern their own land

What on earth makes you think we have ever been concerned about their rights, culture or governments? YYW is right in this part, if we are going to do this crap, do it! Otherwise, walk away.
TrumpTriumph
Posts: 165
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4/28/2016 2:48:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:

In other words, you would do what Donald Trump would do :)

I approve, with some reservations.

This solution would obviously be highly effective in the short-term, but it would also cause quite a few negative economic & social ramifications throughout the Middle East, thereby breeding anti-Western fervor and fueling Islamic extremism in the long-term.

However, that's not necessarily a problem if we handle the aftermath properly. We would have to work with regional authorities to engage in extensive damage control -- in particular, we would have to pressure strong countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey (possibly using our control over Iraqi oil as leverage) to step the fvck up, stop aiding terrorists, and start leading the Middle East towards modernization. Islamic extremism will never go away as long as regional authorities continue to tolerate (and even condone) it.

They need to start actively denouncing and putting down extremist activity. They need to start propagating moderate Islamic values and putting forth a generally pro-Western message. And above all, they need to start liberalizing their dysfunctional political, economic, and religious institutions -- those institutions are vestiges of failed attempts at modernization following WW2, and they're what caused Arabs to become disillusioned with the idea of Westernization in the first place. The lack of free enterprise, the lack of liberty, the lack of government responsiveness, and the lack of national identity -- those realities are what made Islamic fundamentalism appear to be such an alluring alternative. From there, our counter-productive interventionalist efforts just served to escalate matters.

Ultimately, one doesn't treat cancer by relieving its symptoms. Only by directly hacking away at the ideological tumor of Islamic fundamentalism can we hope to fully eliminate it. "Dealing with ISIS" is equivalent to treating a particularly dangerous symptom. What we do afterwards to treat the root cause of the symptom is what really matters.
#TrumpTriumph2016
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/28/2016 3:05:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 2:48:28 AM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:

In other words, you would do what Donald Trump would do :)

I approve, with some reservations.

This solution would obviously be highly effective in the short-term, but it would also cause quite a few negative economic & social ramifications throughout the Middle East, thereby breeding anti-Western fervor and fueling Islamic extremism in the long-term.

However, that's not necessarily a problem if we handle the aftermath properly. We would have to work with regional authorities to engage in extensive damage control -- in particular, we would have to pressure strong countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey (possibly using our control over Iraqi oil as leverage) to step the fvck up, stop aiding terrorists, and start leading the Middle East towards modernization. Islamic extremism will never go away as long as regional authorities continue to tolerate (and even condone) it.

They need to start actively denouncing and putting down extremist activity. They need to start propagating moderate Islamic values and putting forth a generally pro-Western message. And above all, they need to start liberalizing their dysfunctional political, economic, and religious institutions -- those institutions are vestiges of failed attempts at modernization following WW2, and they're what caused Arabs to become disillusioned with the idea of Westernization in the first place. The lack of free enterprise, the lack of liberty, the lack of government responsiveness, and the lack of national identity -- those realities are what made Islamic fundamentalism appear to be such an alluring alternative. From there, our counter-productive interventionalist efforts just served to escalate matters.

Ultimately, one doesn't treat cancer by relieving its symptoms. Only by directly hacking away at the ideological tumor of Islamic fundamentalism can we hope to fully eliminate it. "Dealing with ISIS" is equivalent to treating a particularly dangerous symptom. What we do afterwards to treat the root cause of the symptom is what really matters.

Surprisingly cogent for a guy with a username like yours.
TBR
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4/28/2016 3:09:03 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:06:30 AM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:05:50 AM, TBR wrote:

Surprisingly cogent for a guy with a username like yours.

-_-

And right back down to the level of discourse I expect from Trump supporters. Way to show you are part of the team.
TrumpTriumph
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4/28/2016 3:18:54 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:09:03 AM, TBR wrote:

And right back down to the level of discourse I expect from Trump supporters. Way to show you are part of the team.

Lmao. Any substantive comments on what I wrote?
#TrumpTriumph2016
TBR
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4/28/2016 3:21:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:18:54 AM, TrumpTriumph wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:09:03 AM, TBR wrote:

And right back down to the level of discourse I expect from Trump supporters. Way to show you are part of the team.

Lmao. Any substantive comments on what I wrote?

No, not really. My point was you sounded like you might have a brain. It was a compliment, just take it.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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4/28/2016 3:22:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Here's what I wish we could do:
1. Invade the country. Again. Destroy the ISIL's little kingdom and also conquer the rest of Iraq.
2. Register every Iraqi by ethnicity and religion.
3. Based on this registry, put all Iraqis into 3 categories: Sunni, Shi'ite, and Kurd (regardless of the Kurdish person's religion). Tiny miscellaneous groups like Christians and Jews would simply be ignored.
4. Force every person (except for members of those tiny minority "others") to relocate to a designated section of the country.
5. Partition Iraq into 3 countries: Sunni Iraq, Shi'ite Iraq, and Kurdish Iraq. It's clear that they cannot coexist in the same country without being under a strong dictatorship.
6. Withdraw. Repeat in another war-torn Muslim/African country.

Much more realistically, we could intervene militarily solely in territories currently controlled by the Islamic State and then give the territory back to Iraq. The ISIL would end up with maybe 10% as many fighters as they do now and young Western Muslims would no longer find the group so alluring. They'd become defunct within 10-15 years.

Most realistically of all, however, we just sit back and wait for another 2 years or so and then the Caliphate will collapse.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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TBR
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4/28/2016 3:26:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:22:52 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Here's what I wish we could do:
1. Invade the country. Again. Destroy the ISIL's little kingdom and also conquer the rest of Iraq.
2. Register every Iraqi by ethnicity and religion.
3. Based on this registry, put all Iraqis into 3 categories: Sunni, Shi'ite, and Kurd (regardless of the Kurdish person's religion). Tiny miscellaneous groups like Christians and Jews would simply be ignored.
4. Force every person (except for members of those tiny minority "others") to relocate to a designated section of the country.
5. Partition Iraq into 3 countries: Sunni Iraq, Shi'ite Iraq, and Kurdish Iraq. It's clear that they cannot coexist in the same country without being under a strong dictatorship.
6. Withdraw. Repeat in another war-torn Muslim/African country.

Much more realistically, we could intervene militarily solely in territories currently controlled by the Islamic State and then give the territory back to Iraq. The ISIL would end up with maybe 10% as many fighters as they do now and young Western Muslims would no longer find the group so alluring. They'd become defunct within 10-15 years.

Most realistically of all, however, we just sit back and wait for another 2 years or so and then the Caliphate will collapse.

How about either of these.

1) Leave them the hell alone

2) Conqueror / colonize / rape resources

This equivocation is pathetic.
Vox_Veritas
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4/28/2016 3:28:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:26:04 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:22:52 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Here's what I wish we could do:
1. Invade the country. Again. Destroy the ISIL's little kingdom and also conquer the rest of Iraq.
2. Register every Iraqi by ethnicity and religion.
3. Based on this registry, put all Iraqis into 3 categories: Sunni, Shi'ite, and Kurd (regardless of the Kurdish person's religion). Tiny miscellaneous groups like Christians and Jews would simply be ignored.
4. Force every person (except for members of those tiny minority "others") to relocate to a designated section of the country.
5. Partition Iraq into 3 countries: Sunni Iraq, Shi'ite Iraq, and Kurdish Iraq. It's clear that they cannot coexist in the same country without being under a strong dictatorship.
6. Withdraw. Repeat in another war-torn Muslim/African country.

Much more realistically, we could intervene militarily solely in territories currently controlled by the Islamic State and then give the territory back to Iraq. The ISIL would end up with maybe 10% as many fighters as they do now and young Western Muslims would no longer find the group so alluring. They'd become defunct within 10-15 years.

Most realistically of all, however, we just sit back and wait for another 2 years or so and then the Caliphate will collapse.

How about either of these.

1) Leave them the hell alone

2) Conqueror / colonize / rape resources

How about neither?

This equivocation is pathetic.

Why?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
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4/28/2016 3:30:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
ISIL does serve a useful purpose to the West, however.
In Western countries a small percentage of young Muslim men would really just like to go out and keel some infidels. Instead of committing terrorist acts at home, however, they are drawn to Iraq and Syria by the Caliphate, where their true colours are revealed and they can be promptly disposed of in a way which is as minimally messy as possible for the West.
Basically the ISIL Caliphate has become a magnet for our trash, which makes America a safer place.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
TBR
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4/28/2016 3:31:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:28:06 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:26:04 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:22:52 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Here's what I wish we could do:
1. Invade the country. Again. Destroy the ISIL's little kingdom and also conquer the rest of Iraq.
2. Register every Iraqi by ethnicity and religion.
3. Based on this registry, put all Iraqis into 3 categories: Sunni, Shi'ite, and Kurd (regardless of the Kurdish person's religion). Tiny miscellaneous groups like Christians and Jews would simply be ignored.
4. Force every person (except for members of those tiny minority "others") to relocate to a designated section of the country.
5. Partition Iraq into 3 countries: Sunni Iraq, Shi'ite Iraq, and Kurdish Iraq. It's clear that they cannot coexist in the same country without being under a strong dictatorship.
6. Withdraw. Repeat in another war-torn Muslim/African country.

Much more realistically, we could intervene militarily solely in territories currently controlled by the Islamic State and then give the territory back to Iraq. The ISIL would end up with maybe 10% as many fighters as they do now and young Western Muslims would no longer find the group so alluring. They'd become defunct within 10-15 years.

Most realistically of all, however, we just sit back and wait for another 2 years or so and then the Caliphate will collapse.

How about either of these.

1) Leave them the hell alone

2) Conqueror / colonize / rape resources

How about neither?

This equivocation is pathetic.

Why?

Why keep messing with them? How about getting off the only resource (and reason to care) that they have? If we can't or are unwilling to do that, then we should just do what we have been too squishy to do. Take the entire ME and make it our own. Plant the flag and stop pretending we care one bit about them, their culture, their lives and governments. We don't, we never have.
imabench
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4/28/2016 3:35:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

Australia and New Zealand barely have any military forces to bring to the table in the first place.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS,

Lol. For every member of Isis who is killed in a western invasion of Iraq, the propoganda for the invasion will breed 10 terrorists for the next war, wherever it might break out. Al-Qaeda wasnt even in Iraq before we invaded it, and then Al-Qaeda was there, and they are still in there as well, despite fighting in Iraq for almost a decade.

and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

The few countries in your proposed alliance would completely balk at invading a country that makes it look like youre doing it just for the oil. They may even label such an act as illegal by international standards, which would alienate the few allies the US has that are actually worth anything.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

First off, Iraq only ranks 8th in the world in oil production, and all of their oil goes primarily to China, so youd be helping them more than anything buy giving them cheap gas at a time when they would need it

https://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.businessinsider.com...

Second, ISIS isnt control of all the oil drills and oil storages of Iraq. Youd get maybe a fraction of the oil Iraq produces by taking over ISIS, unless the war on ISIS is just a cover to invade Iraq all over again.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

Oil isnt worth its weight in gold anymore, even in Europe. You cant get a country to do whatever you want just by promising them something that is plentiful and cheap that you might not even be able to deliver in the first place.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

Which would be all the material you need for propaganda to achieve the exact thing you set out to prevent, by spurring the next generation of terrorists to fight the US on the belief that they invade and pillage to no end (which under your plan we would not be able to deny). You also cant eradicate each and every member of ISIS either, to believe that you can is woefully ignorant.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

Vietnam turned out better than this plan would if it were put into effect.
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Dragon_of_Christ
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4/28/2016 3:47:51 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

Russia should be a friend.

Putin seems like a good guy.

He is also really badbutt.

But back on topic...

Put a bounty on ISIS members.

At least 17,500 for each member.

Let the legit 'Murican citizens get them.

They wouldn't stand any chance at all.
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/28/2016 3:54:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:47:51 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

Russia should be a friend.

Putin seems like a good guy.

He is also really badbutt.

But back on topic...

Put a bounty on ISIS members.

At least 17,500 for each member.

Let the legit 'Murican citizens get them.

They wouldn't stand any chance at all.

Look man. If cash were what this would take it would be no problem at all.

Using your number, it would cost about 3.5 trillion to kill every inhabitant of the ME. No big deal. Do you think that would do it?
Blade-of-Truth
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4/28/2016 3:56:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

YYW for President!
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YYW
Posts: 36,391
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4/28/2016 3:58:24 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:56:14 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

YYW for President!

lol right on

It's interesting to see how people react to this, too. Some people are totally cool with it, others, less so. But I think most people don't really understand what's going on, what implications this would have versus alternatives, and even those who oppose it rarely have anything that resembles a better proposal.
Tsar of DDO
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/28/2016 4:09:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:58:24 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:56:14 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

YYW for President!

lol right on

It's interesting to see how people react to this, too. Some people are totally cool with it, others, less so. But I think most people don't really understand what's going on, what implications this would have versus alternatives, and even those who oppose it rarely have anything that resembles a better proposal.

Ignoring my solution. Leaving the entire mess.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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4/28/2016 4:09:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 4:09:08 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:58:24 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:56:14 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/27/2016 10:33:59 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was the president and tasked with the responsibility of dealing with ISIS, I would summon these countries: UK, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

I would bring them to Washington, and form an alliance to permanently kill every member of ISIS, and then divide the territory into a colony to be administered by the United States, with economic rights (i.e. oil rights) to be given to all the countries who were partner to the agreement, and then flood the market with Iraqi oil.

I would flood the market with Iraqi oil to bankrupt the Saudis, and otherwise economically destroy OPEC and the other Gulf protectorates. This would likewise weaken Russia, economically, because of the impact such an action would have on global petrol prices.

I would ensure that all parties to this alliance would have indefinite access to cheap Iraqi oil for as long as there remained a supply of it, so long as they contributed in shares proportional to their relative economic strength to the common defense of the Iraqi-western protectorate.

I would eradicate any member of ISIS from this earth, as the Hebrews did to Jericho; both to purge them from this earth, and to serve as a warning that any radical terrorist Islamic group that had similar ambitions was on notice that they could be next.

I would, prior to this, ensure Russia that I would not interfere with their economic interests which were in Syria, and that I would actively work with them in any way they desired to stabilize Syria, even to the point of allowing Russia to do to Syria what I want to do to Iraq.

YYW for President!

lol right on

It's interesting to see how people react to this, too. Some people are totally cool with it, others, less so. But I think most people don't really understand what's going on, what implications this would have versus alternatives, and even those who oppose it rarely have anything that resembles a better proposal.

Ignoring my solution. Leaving the entire mess.

I'll come back to it later.
Tsar of DDO