Total Posts:22|Showing Posts:1-22
Jump to topic:

Against Gays = Racism

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 5:35:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
In lieu of don't ask, don't tell, I have another question.

Is discriminating against gay people racist?

I sat in on a presentation from a Harvard doctoral grad looking for a teaching position at my school. The presentation was about Cultures, and some social science talk. I went up to him after and asked, "Can you be labeled Racist if you discriminate against Gay people." He sat and though about it, then said, "Yes."

We talked some more after but I wanted to know what you thought?

Before commenting look at these source on how Race is defined.

http://www.britannica.com...

http://en.wikipedia.org...(classification_of_humans)

Look at point 2 and 4

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 10:53:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
If race specifically refers to the chemical components that distinguish one's color or distinct physical characteristics, then I think technically on a semantics level it is not racism.

However racism is just a form of classism; it's the notion that one is of lesser value because of their race. If you don't think gays deserve the same civil rights on the basis of their sexuality, it's essentially the same concept. Generally speaking there's a huge intersection between class, race, gender and sexuality -- In fact most Women's Studies classes focus specifically about how they're linked. All you have to do is Google the terms together to find a plethora of scholarly works describing how they're all linked. In this case you're essentially just finding a completely arbitrary and ridiculous notion to discredit or devalue someone: their race or sexuality. Stupid. If the question is about whether or not gays can be considered a race, then by some definitions (such as the ones you pointed out) they indeed can. Don't people think a "human race" exists? If so, I'm pretty sure it'd be easy to argue that a gay race therefore exists.
President of DDO
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 11:47:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 10:53:55 AM, theLwerd wrote:
If race specifically refers to the chemical components that distinguish one's color or distinct physical characteristics, then I think technically on a semantics level it is not racism.


I agree, but by definition "Gay race" is accommodated, no?

However racism is just a form of classism; it's the notion that one is of lesser value because of their race. If you don't think gays deserve the same civil rights on the basis of their sexuality, it's essentially the same concept. Generally speaking there's a huge intersection between class, race, gender and sexuality -- In fact most Women's Studies classes focus specifically about how they're linked. All you have to do is Google the terms together to find a plethora of scholarly works describing how they're all linked. In this case you're essentially just finding a completely arbitrary and ridiculous notion to discredit or devalue someone: their race or sexuality. Stupid. If the question is about whether or not gays can be considered a race, then by some definitions (such as the ones you pointed out) they indeed can. Don't people think a "human race" exists? If so, I'm pretty sure it'd be easy to argue that a gay race therefore exists.

Exactly.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 11:49:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM, innomen wrote:
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.

Why does it sound typical?

(I do not have a lot of encounters with Harvard Doctoral Grads, sorry.)
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 11:53:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I would define Gay People to be a race just as much as I believe I am apart of the Cuban Race/ American Race.

People do not want to agree b/c they believe the word "Racist" is horrible, and would never like that label attached to their Gay hating-selves.

But I say we push, and show the "ugly" people have.
Call them Racists!
That is what they are!
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 12:00:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It depends on what you/society believe.

The connotation you're using for racism (meaning that it's bad) assumes that looking down on someone for being another race is "wrong." It took a long time for society to get to the point where racism was viewed as morally wrong rather than descriptively accurate.

If society believes that homosexuality is wrong, then looking down on homosexuals would be seen as natural. Not to use Mirza's example, but we look down on people who copulate with corpses right? Anyone who sees homosexuality as similar to necrophilia would not consider bigotry at homosexuals to be wrong, since it is merely descriptively accurate.

To take another example: is looking down on fat people wrong? Should I have to give "equal opportunity" to the hot blond and the 300 lb whale, in deciding who I take home from the bar? Was in "wrong" of Abercrombie to put the ugly employees in the stock room in back?

My point is that it depends on what society believes.

Personally, I think people who discriminate against homosexuals should be shot, and non-bigots should forcibly copulate with their hot wives to produce a new generation of non-bigots or mixed-bigots.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 12:01:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 11:49:01 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM, innomen wrote:
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.

Why does it sound typical?


(I do not have a lot of encounters with Harvard Doctoral Grads, sorry.)

Cambridge (where Harvard is located) is like gay rights central. If there is a place that has affirmative action for gays, it's in Cambridge.

The hatred is based on the same premise (fear of that which is different) for both racism and homophobia, and the result is the same, but race is simply not the same as sexual orientation. Don't kid yourself, the average person will have some sort of intolerance for that which is different than they are.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 12:01:46 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:49:01 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM, innomen wrote:
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.

Why does it sound typical?


(I do not have a lot of encounters with Harvard Doctoral Grads, sorry.)

Cambridge (where Harvard is located) is like gay rights central. If there is a place that has affirmative action for gays, it's in Cambridge.

The hatred is based on the same premise (fear of that which is different) for both racism and homophobia, and the result is the same, but race is simply not the same as sexual orientation. Don't kid yourself, the average person will have some sort of intolerance for that which is different than they are.

The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 12:37:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:01:46 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:49:01 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM, innomen wrote:
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.

Why does it sound typical?


(I do not have a lot of encounters with Harvard Doctoral Grads, sorry.)

Cambridge (where Harvard is located) is like gay rights central. If there is a place that has affirmative action for gays, it's in Cambridge.

The hatred is based on the same premise (fear of that which is different) for both racism and homophobia, and the result is the same, but race is simply not the same as sexual orientation. Don't kid yourself, the average person will have some sort of intolerance for that which is different than they are.

The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.

They'd get sued, some kids are bound to have STD's, and some are bound to be religious. Then there are those that are scared of sex. Then there's the issue of proof, and pedophile teachers, and having it recorded, passing it on the web etc.
Other than that I think its a great idea, lol.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 12:40:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 12:37:23 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:01:46 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:49:01 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM, innomen wrote:
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.

Why does it sound typical?


(I do not have a lot of encounters with Harvard Doctoral Grads, sorry.)

Cambridge (where Harvard is located) is like gay rights central. If there is a place that has affirmative action for gays, it's in Cambridge.

The hatred is based on the same premise (fear of that which is different) for both racism and homophobia, and the result is the same, but race is simply not the same as sexual orientation. Don't kid yourself, the average person will have some sort of intolerance for that which is different than they are.

The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.

They'd get sued, some kids are bound to have STD's, and some are bound to be religious. Then there are those that are scared of sex. Then there's the issue of proof, and pedophile teachers, and having it recorded, passing it on the web etc.
Other than that I think its a great idea, lol.

Lol, they'd teach them safe sex, of course!

You're forgetting other problems, like the boys wouldn't be able to sit in their desks for like a week.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
djsherin
Posts: 343
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 1:03:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 12:40:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:37:23 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:01:46 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:49:01 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/4/2010 11:15:29 AM, innomen wrote:
No, it's a different difference to hate. Most people who hate gay people, don't hate me until they find out i'm gay. By the way, there are gay people who are racist.

Also, what you heard sounds pretty typical for a Harvard grad student.

Why does it sound typical?


(I do not have a lot of encounters with Harvard Doctoral Grads, sorry.)

Cambridge (where Harvard is located) is like gay rights central. If there is a place that has affirmative action for gays, it's in Cambridge.

The hatred is based on the same premise (fear of that which is different) for both racism and homophobia, and the result is the same, but race is simply not the same as sexual orientation. Don't kid yourself, the average person will have some sort of intolerance for that which is different than they are.

The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.

They'd get sued, some kids are bound to have STD's, and some are bound to be religious. Then there are those that are scared of sex. Then there's the issue of proof, and pedophile teachers, and having it recorded, passing it on the web etc.
Other than that I think its a great idea, lol.

Lol, they'd teach them safe sex, of course!

You're forgetting other problems, like the boys wouldn't be able to sit in their desks for like a week.

I lol'd.
My brother is in high school. He annoys me sometimes. I'm all for this idea ;)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 4:31:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.



Lol, bluesteel references my joke organization in his sig! Lulz.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 4:37:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 4:31:26 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.



Lol, bluesteel references my joke organization in his sig! Lulz.

I reference you in the debate too.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 4:38:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 4:37:17 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:31:26 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.



Lol, bluesteel references my joke organization in his sig! Lulz.

I reference you in the debate too.

Hopefully it's not in a harsh light :(
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 4:39:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 4:38:17 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:37:17 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:31:26 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.



Lol, bluesteel references my joke organization in his sig! Lulz.

I reference you in the debate too.

Hopefully it's not in a harsh light :(

No - you can read the debate. I'm arguing against the BDA, but I don't say anything bad about you.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 4:40:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 4:39:40 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:38:17 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:37:17 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:31:26 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.



Lol, bluesteel references my joke organization in his sig! Lulz.

I reference you in the debate too.

Hopefully it's not in a harsh light :(

No - you can read the debate. I'm arguing against the BDA, but I don't say anything bad about you.

Thanks, bro. Honestly, I would probably argue agains the BDA too. It was funny (at least to me) at first, but then people took it way too seriously.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 5:38:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 5:35:33 AM, comoncents wrote:
In lieu of don't ask, don't tell, I have another question.

Is discriminating against gay people racist?

Racism is a negative attitude and social stigma applied to a group of people pursuant to some social system. This is the same exact reason for homophobia. So, I'd say yes; they are fundamentally synonymous.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/4/2010 6:01:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/4/2010 4:25:23 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/4/2010 1:11:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/4/2010 12:18:42 PM, bluesteel wrote:
The State should mandate that everyone has to have gay sex in high school health class, proving Kinsey's premise that everyone is a little bit gay. Then all bigotry would cease.
Then that state should be destroyed in one way or another.


You're welcome.