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Feel The Johnson

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/5/2016 9:57:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I mostly identify as a libertarian, which means I often identify as a Libertarian. While I favor individual rights and a voluntarist society, I accept that for realistic / pragmatic purposes, the Libertarian party is the best option. Gary Johnson is the best candidate running for POTUS in 2016. He is not as libertarian as I am, and he is not the Libertarian candidate I agree with most (surprisingly that would be Austen Petersen, according to iSideWith). But Gary Johnson is the preferred mainstream candidate. Despite the 12th amendment, voters should support his candidacy over the other frontrunners. I'm speaking about this ideologically as opposed to realistically. While I realize the odds of Johnson's victory are incredibly low, I think it's great that Libertarian party registration has doubled since Ted Cruz dropped out of the race... even though I'm not a huge fan of political parties (or voting).

Gary Johnson Would Make a Better POTUS Than Donald Trump

http://www.debate.org...

Gary Johnson Would Make a Better POTUS Than Hillary Clinton

http://www.debate.org...

I also think Johnson's platforms are better than Bernie's, but I assume Clinton will win the nomination. Plus Bernie's downfall really comes from his unabashed ignorance of Economics, and I don't think most of his supporters care about the consequences of his platform so much as their call to action (reform). But I digress.
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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,313
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5/5/2016 10:35:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 9:57:49 PM, Danielle wrote:
I mostly identify as a libertarian, which means I often identify as a Libertarian. While I favor individual rights and a voluntarist society, I accept that for realistic / pragmatic purposes, the Libertarian party is the best option. Gary Johnson is the best candidate running for POTUS in 2016. He is not as libertarian as I am, and he is not the Libertarian candidate I agree with most (surprisingly that would be Austen Petersen, according to iSideWith). But Gary Johnson is the preferred mainstream candidate. Despite the 12th amendment, voters should support his candidacy over the other frontrunners. I'm speaking about this ideologically as opposed to realistically. While I realize the odds of Johnson's victory are incredibly low, I think it's great that Libertarian party registration has doubled since Ted Cruz dropped out of the race... even though I'm not a huge fan of political parties (or voting).

Gary Johnson Would Make a Better POTUS Than Donald Trump

http://www.debate.org...

Gary Johnson Would Make a Better POTUS Than Hillary Clinton

http://www.debate.org...

I also think Johnson's platforms are better than Bernie's, but I assume Clinton will win the nomination. Plus Bernie's downfall really comes from his unabashed ignorance of Economics, and I don't think most of his supporters care about the consequences of his platform so much as their call to action (reform). But I digress.

Good to see you back! :) Hopefully you can get some good people to take you up on those two challenges. They'd be good to read! Also, do you plan on sticking around for awhile, or is this just temporary?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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5/5/2016 10:43:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 10:35:56 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/5/2016 9:57:49 PM, Danielle wrote:

Good to see you back! :) Hopefully you can get some good people to take you up on those two challenges. They'd be good to read! Also, do you plan on sticking around for awhile, or is this just temporary?
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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5/5/2016 11:28:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Barring a conservative third party challenge the Libertarian probably has my vote.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 4:39:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'm pretty shocked that nobody has accepted either one of my debates. What's happened to this site? I mean that sincerely. Is everyone suddenly a libertarian now? I find it very hard to believe that the majority of people (let alone everyone) agrees with me that Gary Johnson is the best candidate for POTUS. In that case, why hasn't the Libertarian party been more popular?
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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5/6/2016 4:41:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:39:41 PM, Danielle wrote:
I'm pretty shocked that nobody has accepted either one of my debates. What's happened to this site? I mean that sincerely. Is everyone suddenly a libertarian now? I find it very hard to believe that the majority of people (let alone everyone) agrees with me that Gary Johnson is the best candidate for POTUS. In that case, why hasn't the Libertarian party been more popular?

Libertarians are bad at tossing bread and circuses to the ignorant voters.
Danielle
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5/6/2016 4:47:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:41:33 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Libertarians are bad at tossing bread and circuses to the ignorant voters.

Yes. But Trump and Clinton are so horrible that Libertarians don't have to do much this time.

What does this have to do with the debates? I'm genuinely curious if this site has suddenly become dominated by libertarians o_O Is everyone planning on voting for Gary Johnson? I don't vote, but heck with this kind of exposure (to the libertarian platform) I'm getting kind of excited.
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tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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5/6/2016 4:50:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:39:41 PM, Danielle wrote:
I'm pretty shocked that nobody has accepted either one of my debates. What's happened to this site? I mean that sincerely. Is everyone suddenly a libertarian now? I find it very hard to believe that the majority of people (let alone everyone) agrees with me that Gary Johnson is the best candidate for POTUS. In that case, why hasn't the Libertarian party been more popular?

This site is dying... People just aren't interested in doing debates anymore. I would put some blame on the glitches and some of the voting standards.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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5/6/2016 4:51:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:47:28 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 4:41:33 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Libertarians are bad at tossing bread and circuses to the ignorant voters.

Yes. But Trump and Clinton are so horrible that Libertarians don't have to do much this time.

What does this have to do with the debates? I'm genuinely curious if this site has suddenly become dominated by libertarians o_O Is everyone planning on voting for Gary Johnson? I don't vote, but heck with this kind of exposure (to the libertarian platform) I'm getting kind of excited.

Yes, the site is largely libertarian now. Also, the wording of your title is hilarious considering the OP is from you.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 4:54:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:51:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Yes, the site is largely libertarian now. Also, the wording of your title is hilarious considering the OP is from you.

Rob teased me about it recently. I told him I felt the Johnson deep inside... my political ideology. But I don't philosophize and tell.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 4:58:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:50:35 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
This site is dying... People just aren't interested in doing debates anymore. I would put some blame on the glitches and some of the voting standards.

That's a shame. I hate what this site has become (a forum popularity contest for kids who were in the marching band in HS... jk, love ya's). I came back to visit specifically because I'm interested in debate. In particular I'm interested in interlibertarian debates, that is debates that libertarians argue about amongst themselves, e.g. open borders, abortion, intellectual property, universal basic income, Constitutionalism, etc. So perhaps if Greyparrot is right and the site is in fact more libertarian, some people would be interested in debating one of those with me. But now it seems people don't really have meaningful debates anymore. Sad. If anyone is interested, let me know :)
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someloser
Posts: 1,377
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5/6/2016 4:59:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'd support Johnson/LP if they weren't weak on immigration. As much as, in many respects, I prefer their vision for the nation over Trump's, it won't really matter sans a (pseudo) cohesive nation.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 7:55:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:59:35 PM, someloser wrote:
I'd support Johnson/LP if they weren't weak on immigration. As much as, in many respects, I prefer their vision for the nation over Trump's, it won't really matter sans a (pseudo) cohesive nation.

Interesting. Would you be interested in debating the border fence then? I'm Con, but I would be willing to debate first as Pro: The U.S. Should Not Erect a Border Fence (or Allegedly Have Mexico Build A Border Fence)

I like Austen Petersen's immigration proposition, the "Ellis Island" standards: Security Check, Disease Check, Done. I'm for the most part open-border. At the very least I'm completely pro free-trade, and I'd be willing to debate that with you/someone as well. That should appeal to some Bernie Sanders fans. Come out come out wherever you are!
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/6/2016 8:39:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 4:58:57 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 4:50:35 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
This site is dying... People just aren't interested in doing debates anymore. I would put some blame on the glitches and some of the voting standards.

That's a shame. I hate what this site has become (a forum popularity contest for kids who were in the marching band in HS... jk, love ya's). I came back to visit specifically because I'm interested in debate. In particular I'm interested in interlibertarian debates, that is debates that libertarians argue about amongst themselves, e.g. open borders, abortion, intellectual property, universal basic income, Constitutionalism, etc. So perhaps if Greyparrot is right and the site is in fact more libertarian, some people would be interested in debating one of those with me. But now it seems people don't really have meaningful debates anymore. Sad. If anyone is interested, let me know :)

A member called mc9 came up with an idea for a "Debate Champions League", which Airmax took up - and I helped him with the early development for the structure, and he now runs it with DK. The people that are in it now aren't too bad, and I think it can grow a lot if the first season goes well. If it does go well, maybe you could find something in the site there.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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5/6/2016 8:41:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 7:55:41 PM, Danielle wrote:

I like Austen Petersen's immigration proposition, the "Ellis Island" standards: Security Check, Disease Check, Done. I'm for the most part open-border. At the very least I'm completely pro free-trade, and I'd be willing to debate that with you/someone as well. That should appeal to some Bernie Sanders fans. Come out come out wherever you are!

I would like that too if we had a system that required immigrants to accommodate themselves into America by learning the language and providing self-sufficiency. We really don't need to outsource poor people that can't work and can't speak. We have plenty of native borns to fill those slots.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 8:42:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:39:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
A member called mc9 came up with an idea for a "Debate Champions League", which Airmax took up - and I helped him with the early development for the structure, and he now runs it with DK. The people that are in it now aren't too bad, and I think it can grow a lot if the first season goes well. If it does go well, maybe you could find something in the site there.

The only part of that which appeals to me is the opportunity for some meaningful debates. Let me know if/when I have the opportunity to accept some of the proposed challenges.
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1harderthanyouthink
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5/6/2016 8:46:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:42:47 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 8:39:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
A member called mc9 came up with an idea for a "Debate Champions League", which Airmax took up - and I helped him with the early development for the structure, and he now runs it with DK. The people that are in it now aren't too bad, and I think it can grow a lot if the first season goes well. If it does go well, maybe you could find something in the site there.

The only part of that which appeals to me is the opportunity for some meaningful debates. Let me know if/when I have the opportunity to accept some of the proposed challenges.

If you're interested in reading about it:

http://www.debate.org... - idea thread
https://www.debate.org... - sign-up
http://www.debate.org... - first season
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 8:47:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:41:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I would like that too if we had a system that required immigrants to accommodate themselves into America by learning the language and providing self-sufficiency. We really don't need to outsource poor people that can't work and can't speak. We have plenty of native borns to fill those slots.

We should have no system that requires any such thing.

It's none of your business and not your problem if immigrants don't assimilate. It's not their job to accomodate your preferences or vice versa. If they don't learn the language, they will have a harder time finding work (presumably) or at least greater barriers for employment. What's it to ya?

Of course as a libertarian I advocate self-sufficiency and voluntary charity, specifically from family and close friends. People used to take care of each other before the welfare state.

I don't know what you mean by outsourcing people that "can't work" and "can't speak" but it seems contradictory to complain that immigrants who "can't speak" or "can't work" threaten the slots (jobs?) of natives. Either way, native born Americans are not inherently more righteous or deserving of anything vs. a non-American.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 8:51:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:46:05 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
If you're interested in reading about it:

http://www.debate.org... - idea thread
https://www.debate.org... - sign-up
http://www.debate.org... - first season

Thank you for sharing the information. I genuinely appreciate it, but this looks pretty formal. I'm just interested in some well thought out out discussion with esteemed opponents :) I haven't had my views challenged in a significant way for quite awhile. Facebook doesn't exactly provide the cream of the crop insofar as intellectual conversation.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,281
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5/6/2016 8:51:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:47:24 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 8:41:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I would like that too if we had a system that required immigrants to accommodate themselves into America by learning the language and providing self-sufficiency. We really don't need to outsource poor people that can't work and can't speak. We have plenty of native borns to fill those slots.

We should have no system that requires any such thing.

It's none of your business and not your problem if immigrants don't assimilate. It's not their job to accomodate your preferences or vice versa. If they don't learn the language, they will have a harder time finding work (presumably) or at least greater barriers for employment. What's it to ya?

Of course as a libertarian I advocate self-sufficiency and voluntary charity, specifically from family and close friends. People used to take care of each other before the welfare state.


That's the problem, the welfare state makes it everyone's business when poor people flood into the government offices. Not being able to speak makes it everyone's problem when they all have to either pay more for schooling, or watch as the schools deteriorate. These were not issues during the Ellis Island waves.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/6/2016 8:51:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:51:06 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 8:46:05 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
If you're interested in reading about it:

http://www.debate.org... - idea thread
https://www.debate.org... - sign-up
http://www.debate.org... - first season

Thank you for sharing the information. I genuinely appreciate it, but this looks pretty formal. I'm just interested in some well thought out out discussion with esteemed opponents :) I haven't had my views challenged in a significant way for quite awhile. Facebook doesn't exactly provide the cream of the crop insofar as intellectual conversation.

Lol it does not.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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someloser
Posts: 1,377
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5/6/2016 8:52:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 7:55:41 PM, Danielle wrote:
Interesting. Would you be interested in debating the border fence then? I'm Con, but I would be willing to debate first as Pro: The U.S. Should Not Erect a Border Fence (or Allegedly Have Mexico Build A Border Fence)
I'm more in favor of immigration restrictions, not the border fence per se. Don't think it would be that effective or necessary.

I like Austen Petersen's immigration proposition, the "Ellis Island" standards: Security Check, Disease Check, Done. I'm for the most part open-border.
Mm, near-total opposite here. I would be willing to debate that (once the debates I have are finished)
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 8:54:04 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:51:44 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
That's the problem, the welfare state makes it everyone's business when poor people flood into the government offices. Not being able to speak makes it everyone's problem when they all have to either pay more for schooling, or watch as the schools deteriorate. These were not issues during the Ellis Island waves.

Voting Libertarian makes these non-issues. It doesn't make sense to keep voting bad policy to accommodate bad practices instead of just reforming the bad practices.
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Danielle
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5/6/2016 8:55:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:52:02 PM, someloser wrote:
Mm, near-total opposite here. I would be willing to debate that (once the debates I have are finished)

That sounds good, though to be clear as a libertarian that also means I would be for reforming the status quo along with immigration standards. In other words I am for eliminating the welfare state as well.
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/6/2016 9:00:36 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 9:57:49 PM, Danielle wrote:
I also think Johnson's platforms are better than Bernie's, but I assume Clinton will win the nomination. Plus Bernie's downfall really comes from his unabashed ignorance of Economics, and I don't think most of his supporters care about the consequences of his platform so much as their call to action (reform). But I digress.

I'd be interested in hearing your view on Sanders' economics if you ever feel up to discussing it.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 9:12:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 9:00:36 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing your view on Sanders' economics if you ever feel up to discussing it.

I am completely opposed to Sanders' economics. I'd be happy to discuss. Are there a lot of Bernie fans here? Perhaps if nobody is willing to defend Clinton or Trump (even though I assume many are open to voting for either of them) someone will argue for Sanders.
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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,313
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5/6/2016 9:23:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:51:06 PM, Danielle wrote:
I'm just interested in some well thought out out discussion with esteemed opponents :)

^ Do I qualify for that?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/6/2016 9:30:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 9:23:54 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
^ Do I qualify for that?

I don't know you very well (or at all) but I don't see why not :)
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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,313
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5/6/2016 9:36:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 9:30:39 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 9:23:54 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
^ Do I qualify for that?

I don't know you very well (or at all) but I don't see why not :)

Haha, yeah. I joined a little before you left, and wasn't active in the forums or anything at that point. :)
You can read some of my debates if you want to see how bad I am. xD
Definitely not that good, but who knows :)
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/6/2016 10:11:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 9:12:13 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/6/2016 9:00:36 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing your view on Sanders' economics if you ever feel up to discussing it.

I am completely opposed to Sanders' economics. I'd be happy to discuss. Are there a lot of Bernie fans here? Perhaps if nobody is willing to defend Clinton or Trump (even though I assume many are open to voting for either of them) someone will argue for Sanders.

The most popular here are Sanders and Trump, from what I can tell. At least, that's the case with the forums I look through.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King