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Trump reverses stance, supports higher taxes

TN05
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5/8/2016 2:08:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
"On my plan they're going down. But by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up," Trump said. "Look, when I'm negotiating with the Democrats, I'm putting in a plan. I'm putting in my optimum plan. It's going to be negotiated, George. It's not going to stay there. They're not going to say, 'There's your plan, let's approve it.' They're going to say, 'Let's see what we can do.'"

http://abcnews.go.com...

I actually agree with Trump on something here: in a negotiation, Dems will never accept a 100% Republican plan. This is what rational conservatives have said for years.

Spoiler alert: There won't be a wall. Every stance Trump takes is simply the opening negotiating position, and everything is negotiable.
user13579
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5/8/2016 2:11:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Well that's really a f****** surprise. (Right.)

Of course. He said what he had to say to win the primaries, and now he's going to say what he has to say to beat Hillary. And of course he'll end up contradicting himself.
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twocupcakes
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5/8/2016 2:46:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 2:08:09 PM, TN05 wrote:
"On my plan they're going down. But by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up," Trump said. "Look, when I'm negotiating with the Democrats, I'm putting in a plan. I'm putting in my optimum plan. It's going to be negotiated, George. It's not going to stay there. They're not going to say, 'There's your plan, let's approve it.' They're going to say, 'Let's see what we can do.'"

http://abcnews.go.com...

I actually agree with Trump on something here: in a negotiation, Dems will never accept a 100% Republican plan. This is what rational conservatives have said for years.

Spoiler alert: There won't be a wall. Every stance Trump takes is simply the opening negotiating position, and everything is negotiable.

It is clear that Trump does not stand for anything and will say anything to gel elected. His defense is that "it is all for negotiation". Lol, obviously everything needs to be negotiated. But, the people want to no what you stand for and what your vision is.

I am not for conservative policies, but at least I respect candidates who have the integrity to say what they believe and not pander.

I feel like the GOD nominated the only candidate with less integrity than Hillary.

Trump said he was opposed to a minimum wage increase, and now he is.

What Trump said on Taxes & Minimum Wage

"Taxes too high, wages too high, we"re not going to be able to compete against the world," Trump said in a November debate hosted by Fox Business.

What Trump now says on Minimum Wage

"I am open to doing something with it, because I don"t like that," Trump told CNN on Wednesday after being asked if he thought the $7.25 minimum wage should be increased.

"We were talking about the minimum wage, and they said, "Should we increase the minimum wage?" " Trump told Fox News after the debate. "And I"m saying that if we"re going to compete with other countries we can"t do that because the wages would be too high.

What Trump Says Now on Tax Cuts for the Rich

"I am not necessarily a huge fan of that," he said. "I am so much more into the middle class who have just been absolutely forgotten in our country."

"It"s important to note that these disproportionately large cuts for the rich aren"t a minor side feature of his plan, they"re the heart of it. A whopping 67 percent of the overall cost of his individual tax cuts would go to the top 20 percent of earners and 35 percent of it would go to the top 1 percent, according to the Tax Policy Center"s "analysis.
thett3
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5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
twocupcakes
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5/8/2016 3:44:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

It is obvious that everything has to go through negotiation. But, that is no excuse for his extreme pandering. The people want to know what he wants to do.

If he wants to increase minimum wage, he has to negotiate with the GOP opposition.

If he wants to leave minimum wage where it is, he has to negotiate with Democrat opposition.

It is obvious his response of "everything is negotiable" is his excuse for lying to GOP voters to win the nomination. I think minimum wage will should go up, but I would rather have a President that says what they mean, instead of pandering to win the Presidency.

Saying minimum wage should go up to $15, and settling on $12 is one thing. Saying that minimum wage is too high and is hurting our country, and then saying minimum wage is too low is completely different.
TN05
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5/8/2016 3:51:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd accept some limited tax hikes in return for a simplified tax code and reduced spending. But:
1) Trump has previously opposed raising taxes
and
2) Trump supporters, by and large, were the same people demanding the GOP not cave on anything during budget negotiations.
thett3
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5/8/2016 3:53:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 3:51:30 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd accept some limited tax hikes in return for a simplified tax code and reduced spending. But:
1) Trump has previously opposed raising taxes

It isn't a very strong negotiating position if you admit what you're willing to concede straight up. Literally all he's doing here is acknowledging that in any negotiation concessions happen

and
2) Trump supporters, by and large, were the same people demanding the GOP not cave on anything during budget negotiations.

Do you have proof of this? One would think those people would gravitate towards Ted Cruz
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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5/8/2016 4:32:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 3:44:03 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

It is obvious that everything has to go through negotiation. But, that is no excuse for his extreme pandering. The people want to know what he wants to do.

If he wants to increase minimum wage, he has to negotiate with the GOP opposition.

If he wants to leave minimum wage where it is, he has to negotiate with Democrat opposition.

It is obvious his response of "everything is negotiable" is his excuse for lying to GOP voters to win the nomination. I think minimum wage will should go up, but I would rather have a President that says what they mean, instead of pandering to win the Presidency.

Saying minimum wage should go up to $15, and settling on $12 is one thing. Saying that minimum wage is too high and is hurting our country, and then saying minimum wage is too low is completely different.

+1

Not a very strong negotiating tactic to declare at the outset that your position is intended to be just a starting point so that you can move closer to what your opponents want.

And when it comes to pandering, every politician does it. The difference is that Trump is not a politician, he's a salesman. And what sales people do is not get your attention with reason, but rather rope you in emotionally by using extreme language with unwavering confidence. By extreme language I simply mean that everything is "terrific", "fantastic", "great", etc. So if you believe what Trump says then you believe he will be the best jobs president God ever created, he's going to destroy Isis, he's going to treat veterans great, he's going to do great with women and Hispanics in the general election, he is going to be the most "presidential" president ever (after Lincoln), and is even going to be the healthiest president ever. Of course he does not offer a coherent strategy for any of this, except that he is going to surround himself with great people.

And the thing about this is that it works because it comes off naturally. And the reason why is because it is not planned, instead it is the result of a man getting swept up in the moment. When he is talking to a crowd he senses what they want to hear, and he feeds it to them. When in an interview he senses what he needs to say to get people's confidence, and then says it. He's a performer, one who is used to working people one small group at a time and where what he says to one group rarely reaches the next group he will need to work.

It's sad how exuding confidence can get people to abandon their rational skepticism in favor of emotional fantasy, but then this is something many salespeople around the world know very well. We're just not quite so used to seeing it so effectively in our politics.
TN05
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5/8/2016 4:37:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 3:53:15 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:51:30 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd accept some limited tax hikes in return for a simplified tax code and reduced spending. But:
1) Trump has previously opposed raising taxes

It isn't a very strong negotiating position if you admit what you're willing to concede straight up. Literally all he's doing here is acknowledging that in any negotiation concessions happen

I agree. Anyone else says this, however, and they get crucified as a traitor.

and
2) Trump supporters, by and large, were the same people demanding the GOP not cave on anything during budget negotiations.

Do you have proof of this? One would think those people would gravitate towards Ted Cruz

The no compromise Tea Party wing gravitated equally to Trump. Breitbart, Palin, Allen West, Newt Gingrich, etc.
TN05
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5/8/2016 4:41:37 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 4:32:52 PM, Double_R wrote:

+1

Not a very strong negotiating tactic to declare at the outset that your position is intended to be just a starting point so that you can move closer to what your opponents want.

And when it comes to pandering, every politician does it. The difference is that Trump is not a politician, he's a salesman. And what sales people do is not get your attention with reason, but rather rope you in emotionally by using extreme language with unwavering confidence. By extreme language I simply mean that everything is "terrific", "fantastic", "great", etc. So if you believe what Trump says then you believe he will be the best jobs president God ever created, he's going to destroy Isis, he's going to treat veterans great, he's going to do great with women and Hispanics in the general election, he is going to be the most "presidential" president ever (after Lincoln), and is even going to be the healthiest president ever. Of course he does not offer a coherent strategy for any of this, except that he is going to surround himself with great people.

And the thing about this is that it works because it comes off naturally. And the reason why is because it is not planned, instead it is the result of a man getting swept up in the moment. When he is talking to a crowd he senses what they want to hear, and he feeds it to them. When in an interview he senses what he needs to say to get people's confidence, and then says it. He's a performer, one who is used to working people one small group at a time and where what he says to one group rarely reaches the next group he will need to work.

It's sad how exuding confidence can get people to abandon their rational skepticism in favor of emotional fantasy, but then this is something many salespeople around the world know very well. We're just not quite so used to seeing it so effectively in our politics.

Quoted for truth
twocupcakes
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5/8/2016 4:43:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 3:53:15 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:51:30 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd accept some limited tax hikes in return for a simplified tax code and reduced spending. But:
1) Trump has previously opposed raising taxes

It isn't a very strong negotiating position if you admit what you're willing to concede straight up. Literally all he's doing here is acknowledging that in any negotiation concessions happen

"

As Double R says "Not a very strong negotiating tactic to declare at the outset that your position is intended to be just a starting point so that you can move closer to what your opponents want"
Greyparrot
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5/8/2016 4:44:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 4:43:22 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:53:15 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:51:30 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 5/8/2016 3:35:04 PM, thett3 wrote:
He acknowledged that as it goes through congress he will inevitably have to make some concessions and that he's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut them for the middle class. Oh no! What a terrible terrible position! I can't imagine anything worse than a slight increase in taxes for the wealthy in exchange for helping the middle class

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd accept some limited tax hikes in return for a simplified tax code and reduced spending. But:
1) Trump has previously opposed raising taxes

It isn't a very strong negotiating position if you admit what you're willing to concede straight up. Literally all he's doing here is acknowledging that in any negotiation concessions happen

"

As Double R says "Not a very strong negotiating tactic to declare at the outset that your position is intended to be just a starting point so that you can move closer to what your opponents want"

Unless it really isn't your position...oh what a chess game politics is!
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,068
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5/8/2016 7:51:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/8/2016 2:08:09 PM, TN05 wrote:
"On my plan they're going down. But by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up," Trump said. "Look, when I'm negotiating with the Democrats, I'm putting in a plan. I'm putting in my optimum plan. It's going to be negotiated, George. It's not going to stay there. They're not going to say, 'There's your plan, let's approve it.' They're going to say, 'Let's see what we can do.'"

http://abcnews.go.com...

I actually agree with Trump on something here: in a negotiation, Dems will never accept a 100% Republican plan. This is what rational conservatives have said for years.

Spoiler alert: There won't be a wall. Every stance Trump takes is simply the opening negotiating position, and everything is negotiable.

Well, as one prominent far leftist activist put it: "When you expect negotiations to end in a compromise, it doesn't hurt to start negotiating from a radical position."
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Ubermensch-Tsoa
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5/8/2016 9:13:11 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/8/2016 2:08:09 PM, TN05 wrote:
"On my plan they're going down. But by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up," Trump said. "Look, when I'm negotiating with the Democrats, I'm putting in a plan. I'm putting in my optimum plan. It's going to be negotiated, George. It's not going to stay there. They're not going to say, 'There's your plan, let's approve it.' They're going to say, 'Let's see what we can do.'"

http://abcnews.go.com...

I actually agree with Trump on something here: in a negotiation, Dems will never accept a 100% Republican plan. This is what rational conservatives have said for years.

Spoiler alert: There won't be a wall. Every stance Trump takes is simply the opening negotiating position, and everything is negotiable.

So, what should you do when you dont get something the way you want? Throw it all away? Or compromise and negotiate? We all want to play hardball but at the end of the day, how bad do you want the keys to the car? It takes more than 1 party to get things done. Stop being so critical. (I'm not a trump fan, i'm not into picking the best of the turds.)
tejretics
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5/9/2016 4:29:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
You can expect a lot more changes from Trump now that he's no longer pressured into dumb positions by the GOP. And it's absolutely hilarious you think the other GOP candidates (e.g. Ted Cruz) are better than Trump.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
1Percenter
Posts: 781
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5/9/2016 5:39:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/8/2016 2:08:09 PM, TN05 wrote:
"On my plan they're going down. But by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up," Trump said. "Look, when I'm negotiating with the Democrats, I'm putting in a plan. I'm putting in my optimum plan. It's going to be negotiated, George. It's not going to stay there. They're not going to say, 'There's your plan, let's approve it.' They're going to say, 'Let's see what we can do.'"

http://abcnews.go.com...

I actually agree with Trump on something here: in a negotiation, Dems will never accept a 100% Republican plan. This is what rational conservatives have said for years.

Spoiler alert: There won't be a wall. Every stance Trump takes is simply the opening negotiating position, and everything is negotiable.

This is not an accurate representation of Trump's position. He does not support higher taxes for the wealthy -- he is simply acknowledging that taxes on the wealthy will likely be higher than what is outlined in his plan after negotiations take place with Congress, not that the wealthy will be slapped with higher tax rates than they have now after his plan is passed. Some may see an increase in the taxes they pay with the elimination of loopholes, but his tax plan still calls for a reduction in rates across the board. He has not reversed his position.

Also, he has not indicated on any willingness to negotiate on the construction of the wall apart from how high it is going to be. How tall will the wall be... how big will the tax cuts be... that is what he is expecting to be on the negotiating tale.