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Is Turkey "bad"?

PetersSmith
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5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Turkey. The Ottoman Empire. Sultanate of Rum. Conqueror of Constantinople. Part of NATO. Turkey has a rough history, but today it's considered an ally of the United States. However, today Turkey's allegiances are questionable. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, president of Turkey, is quite controversial and is considered an autocrat by some. One controversy is concern over Ottomanism, which is perceived to be an open attack against the republican nature of modern Turkey founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Many critics have thus accused Erdogan of wanting to become an Ottoman sultan and abandon the secular and democratic credentials of the Republic (http://www.wsj.com...). Another concern is silencing the press, media intimidation, and censorship, with the latest newspaper that has been seized is Zaman (http://www.nytimes.com...). Erdogan also tightened controls over the internet, signing into law a bill which allows the government to block websites without prior court order on 12 September 2014. His government blocked Twitter and YouTube in late March 2014 following the release of a recording of a conversation between him and his son Bilal, where Erdogan allegedly warned his family to 'nullify' all cash reserves at their home amid the 2013 corruption scandal (http://www.theguardian.com...).

Erdogan has also been accused of being antisemetic. When during a televised press conference he was asked if he believed a presidential system was possible in a unitary state he affirmed this and cited Nazi Germany as an example of how this is possible. A 2009 report issued by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, accused Erdogan of inciting anti-Semitism (http://cdnjw.zaman.com.tr...). Electoral fraud has also been a concern, with the first significant cases of election fraud under Erdoğan's rule were documented during the 2009 local elections, where numerous cases of ballot paper theft.

In February 2016, Erdogan has threatened to send the millions of refugees in Turkey to EU member states, quoted with saying: "We can open the doors to Greece and Bulgaria anytime and we can put the refugees on buses ... So how will you deal with refugees if you don't get a deal? Kill the refugees?". He has also been accused of Human Rights' violations against the Kurdish people in Turkey (https://www.hrw.org...).

So, what do you guys think of Turkey and Erdogan? Do you think Turkey is a trustworthy ally? Do you think Erdogan is an autocrat and Turkey's democracy should be questioned? What's your opinion on the Turkey-PKK conflict? Do you think Turkey is suppressing the liberties of its people? Should Turkey be pressured to take in Syrian migrants? Does Turkey need some American democracy? Should Constantinople be given back to Greece? Discuss.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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5/12/2016 11:22:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Turkey is an unfortunate example of a secular Muslim state that is radicalizing. I don't distrust them as an ally, but they are by no means a democracy.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

So, what do you guys think of Turkey and Erdogan?
Turkey does need to shake Westernization to a point, and is in a very tenuous situation, geopolitical. Erdogan is a mixed bag, like any skilled politician, but he's the sort of leader which Turkey needs right now.

Do you think Turkey is a trustworthy ally?
I think that they are predictable, which is better.

Do you think Erdogan is an autocrat and Turkey's democracy should be questioned?
I think it's pretty obvious that he isn't, and I think that the Western obsession with 'democracy' is stupid.

What's your opinion on the Turkey-PKK conflict?
Turkey, as it exists now, needs to curb separatists in order to maintain a viable nationstate. It shares this in common with Russia. This means maintaining its Kurdish populations, which means suppressing political expression to a point. Though they would probably be better off with an Armenian genocide redux if it weren't for the international fallout...

Do you think Turkey is suppressing the liberties of its people?
Yes, every nation does so to some degree.

Should Turkey be pressured to take in Syrian migrants?
Not by us, that would be the height of hypocrisy, lol.

Does Turkey need some American democracy?
Gods, no.

Should Constantinople be given back to Greece?
LOL, wtf? No.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
PetersSmith
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5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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5/13/2016 12:06:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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5/13/2016 12:15:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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5/13/2016 12:17:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:15:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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5/13/2016 12:19:24 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:33:55 PM, SolonKR wrote:
I personally prefer ham.

I personally prefer clown.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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5/13/2016 12:19:35 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:17:28 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:15:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
http://giphy.com...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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5/13/2016 12:22:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

Yeah. It shows how sheltered and out of touch a lot of Americans are when they're OUTRAGED that someone in another country doesn't share their emotional fixation on 9/11. 9/11 is important to Americans because, even though it was completely negligible in terms of damage inflicted, it shattered that sense of security because someone managed to get the equivalent of a glancing blow on us, geopolitically. Meanwhile, in Chechnya, the entire capital was leveled by artillery. In Azerbaijan over 5% of the country was occupied and subjected to bloody massacres. To draw a comparison as far as impacted land goes, that would be like Canadians murdering and raping their way across the entire state of California, and then throwing it into legal limbo for decades. And those are problems which we didn't cause.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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5/13/2016 12:23:41 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:19:35 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:17:28 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:15:55 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
http://giphy.com...

http://www.funorama.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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5/13/2016 12:26:24 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:23:41 AM, PetersSmith wrote:

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
http://giphy.com...

http://www.funorama.com...
https://giphy.com...
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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5/13/2016 12:28:13 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:26:24 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:23:41 AM, PetersSmith wrote:

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
http://giphy.com...

http://www.funorama.com...
https://giphy.com...

http://i1.kym-cdn.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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5/13/2016 12:30:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:28:13 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:26:24 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:23:41 AM, PetersSmith wrote:

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
https://giphy.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
http://giphy.com...

http://www.funorama.com...
https://giphy.com...

http://i1.kym-cdn.com...

http://www.reactiongifs.com...
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,660
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5/13/2016 12:30:57 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
Turkey. The Ottoman Empire. Sultanate of Rum. Conqueror of Constantinople. Part of NATO. Turkey has a rough history, but today it's considered an ally of the United States. However, today Turkey's allegiances are questionable. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, president of Turkey, is quite controversial and is considered an autocrat by some. One controversy is concern over Ottomanism, which is perceived to be an open attack against the republican nature of modern Turkey founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Many critics have thus accused Erdogan of wanting to become an Ottoman sultan and abandon the secular and democratic credentials of the Republic (http://www.wsj.com...). Another concern is silencing the press, media intimidation, and censorship, with the latest newspaper that has been seized is Zaman (http://www.nytimes.com...). Erdogan also tightened controls over the internet, signing into law a bill which allows the government to block websites without prior court order on 12 September 2014. His government blocked Twitter and YouTube in late March 2014 following the release of a recording of a conversation between him and his son Bilal, where Erdogan allegedly warned his family to 'nullify' all cash reserves at their home amid the 2013 corruption scandal (http://www.theguardian.com...).

Erdogan has also been accused of being antisemetic. When during a televised press conference he was asked if he believed a presidential system was possible in a unitary state he affirmed this and cited Nazi Germany as an example of how this is possible. A 2009 report issued by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, accused Erdogan of inciting anti-Semitism (http://cdnjw.zaman.com.tr...). Electoral fraud has also been a concern, with the first significant cases of election fraud under Erdoğan's rule were documented during the 2009 local elections, where numerous cases of ballot paper theft.

In February 2016, Erdogan has threatened to send the millions of refugees in Turkey to EU member states, quoted with saying: "We can open the doors to Greece and Bulgaria anytime and we can put the refugees on buses ... So how will you deal with refugees if you don't get a deal? Kill the refugees?". He has also been accused of Human Rights' violations against the Kurdish people in Turkey (https://www.hrw.org...).

So, what do you guys think of Turkey and Erdogan? Do you think Turkey is a trustworthy ally? Do you think Erdogan is an autocrat and Turkey's democracy should be questioned? What's your opinion on the Turkey-PKK conflict? Do you think Turkey is suppressing the liberties of its people? Should Turkey be pressured to take in Syrian migrants? Does Turkey need some American democracy? Should Constantinople be given back to Greece? Discuss.

All your first few statements are completely valid and they expose how Turkey is radicalizing and how their government is filled with lunatics. Turkey in no way should be an ally of the United States or Europe considering their unjustified behavior diplomatically and their internal issues.

Oh, and mind I mention how they pretend like the Armenian Genocide never happened?
Greyparrot
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5/13/2016 12:35:10 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:28:13 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:26:24 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:23:41 AM, PetersSmith wrote:

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.
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http://i.imgur.com...
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,683
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5/13/2016 12:35:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.

Wood torches cannot burn sandstone beams.

Madison did 1812
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,660
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5/13/2016 12:43:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:35:25 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:59:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:53:00 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:51:49 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Yes, the last two were a joke.

Okay, lol. I was just picturing the fallout if Istanbul were actually forcibly ceded to Greece. They threw a fit over Cyprus, lol, just imagine it.

What do you think will happen after ISIS is defeated and the Kurds demand independence? Will Turkey flip and still reject the PKK? Will the rest of Kurdistan retaliate?

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.

Wood torches cannot burn sandstone beams.

Madison did 1812

Reveal any more secrets and we'll airstrike Ontario.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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5/13/2016 12:49:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/13/2016 12:35:25 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:12:20 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:08:46 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/13/2016 12:05:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

I think that Russia will ally with Kurdistan clandestinely, perhaps through Iran, and use them as leverage against Turkey. That's why it's so important for Turkey to curb any resistance now. People in the US, of course, wouldn't know an existential threat to their nation if it slapped them in the face with its dick, so they often can't understand why Turkey's actions are necessary.

Lol, we don't have any real threats. (Except Mexican rapists)

And Canada. Never Forget 1812.

Wood torches cannot burn sandstone beams.

Madison did 1812

OMG, my eyes are open.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
lexigomez
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5/13/2016 10:49:57 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:50:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

So, what do you guys think of Turkey and Erdogan?
Turkey does need to shake Westernization to a point, and is in a very tenuous situation, geopolitical. Erdogan is a mixed bag, like any skilled politician, but he's the sort of leader which Turkey needs right now.

Do you think Turkey is a trustworthy ally?
I think that they are predictable, which is better.

Do you think Erdogan is an autocrat and Turkey's democracy should be questioned?
I think it's pretty obvious that he isn't, and I think that the Western obsession with 'democracy' is stupid.

What's your opinion on the Turkey-PKK conflict?
Turkey, as it exists now, needs to curb separatists in order to maintain a viable nationstate. It shares this in common with Russia. This means maintaining its Kurdish populations, which means suppressing political expression to a point. Though they would probably be better off with an Armenian genocide redux if it weren't for the international fallout...

Do you think Turkey is suppressing the liberties of its people?
Yes, every nation does so to some degree.

Should Turkey be pressured to take in Syrian migrants?
Not by us, that would be the height of hypocrisy, lol.

Does Turkey need some American democracy?
Gods, no.

Should Constantinople be given back to Greece?
LOL, wtf? No.

You sound like you either work for the Turkish gov't or you've watch too much Turkish propaganda. #iloveamerica
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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6/13/2016 8:37:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Turkey is at it again. A newspaper linked to the Turkish government has failed to condemn the Orlando shooting, and instead called the victims "perverts" and "deviants". Accreditation for journalists was also brought under further government control, allowing officials to handpick reporters for prominent positions. Because of this, publications that are allowed to operate freely - such as Akit - are seen to be voicing the de-facto views of Erdogan and his regime.
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Axonly
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6/15/2016 9:48:14 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:33:55 PM, SolonKR wrote:
I personally prefer ham.

I see what you did there.
Meh!
brontoraptor
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6/15/2016 2:30:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:09:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
Turkey. The Ottoman Empire. Sultanate of Rum. Conqueror of Constantinople. Part of NATO. Turkey has a rough history, but today it's considered an ally of the United States. However, today Turkey's allegiances are questionable. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, president of Turkey, is quite controversial and is considered an autocrat by some. One controversy is concern over Ottomanism, which is perceived to be an open attack against the republican nature of modern Turkey founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Many critics have thus accused Erdogan of wanting to become an Ottoman sultan and abandon the secular and democratic credentials of the Republic (http://www.wsj.com...). Another concern is silencing the press, media intimidation, and censorship, with the latest newspaper that has been seized is Zaman (http://www.nytimes.com...). Erdogan also tightened controls over the internet, signing into law a bill which allows the government to block websites without prior court order on 12 September 2014. His government blocked Twitter and YouTube in late March 2014 following the release of a recording of a conversation between him and his son Bilal, where Erdogan allegedly warned his family to 'nullify' all cash reserves at their home amid the 2013 corruption scandal (http://www.theguardian.com...).

Erdogan has also been accused of being antisemetic. When during a televised press conference he was asked if he believed a presidential system was possible in a unitary state he affirmed this and cited Nazi Germany as an example of how this is possible. A 2009 report issued by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, accused Erdogan of inciting anti-Semitism (http://cdnjw.zaman.com.tr...). Electoral fraud has also been a concern, with the first significant cases of election fraud under Erdoğan's rule were documented during the 2009 local elections, where numerous cases of ballot paper theft.

In February 2016, Erdogan has threatened to send the millions of refugees in Turkey to EU member states, quoted with saying: "We can open the doors to Greece and Bulgaria anytime and we can put the refugees on buses ... So how will you deal with refugees if you don't get a deal? Kill the refugees?". He has also been accused of Human Rights' violations against the Kurdish people in Turkey (https://www.hrw.org...).

So, what do you guys think of Turkey and Erdogan? Do you think Turkey is a trustworthy ally? Do you think Erdogan is an autocrat and Turkey's democracy should be questioned? What's your opinion on the Turkey-PKK conflict? Do you think Turkey is suppressing the liberties of its people? Should Turkey be pressured to take in Syrian migrants? Does Turkey need some American democracy? Should Constantinople be given back to Greece? Discuss.

We have no Islamic allies. Saudi Arabia was behind 9/11. Well that's whst our biggest Islamic "friend" thinks of us. The Quran allows them to pay lip service, lie to us, pretend, and espionage us. It doesn't allow them to ever actually side with us or look for peace with us. It plainly commands them repeatedly to kill us. It plainly tells them they automatically go to Heaven if they kill one or more of us. I'd just ignore them and hope not too many people are raped, burned alive, beheaded, or drowned in cages. That seems to be the Liberal plan. If 50 LGBT's have to die to feel tollerant of these animals, Liberals are simply willing to make that sacrifice to feel falsely moral...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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