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War is good for the economy?

Nielsio
Posts: 5
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12/11/2010 9:27:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Claim:
"War is good for the economy because it provides jobs and it generates technology."

Analysis:

§ Jobs

The purpose of an economy is providing for the satisfaction of consumers.

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This means a job is only valuable insofar it improves on the value of resources, as judged by consumers.

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Given that the jobs created do not produce consumer goods, or producer goods that are used for consumer goods, those jobs do not benefit the economy. In order to provide the jobs involved in a war-effort, resources and man-power are taken away from the economy; making the economy worse off with less goods to offer and higher prices.

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The people who lose their life in a war are not just temporarily but permanently taken away from the economy.

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The resources that are lost in a war are not just those taken away to engage in a war-effort, but also resources are destroyed in the conflict itself; not just the tools produced for the war-effort and the people who are hurt or killed, but also property of people not involved in the war-effort and the health and lives of people who are not mobilized.

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Under a situation of total war where all people are mobilized there would be no private sector, and all things consumed to live would be those things created under the command structure. People would almost all eat the same things and have the same low standards of living. This 'economy' would pale compared to what it was beforehand.

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Even though war cannot improve the economy as a whole, it can improve the wealth of some at the expense of others. If you produce tools for war then you could stand to gain from the resources that are channeled from other parts of the economy to your venture.

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§ Technology

Even though technology can be generated in a war-effort, technology is also generated in a consumer-oriented economy. In order to make a profit and sustain their operations, producers develop goods and services that others wish to trade for. The challenge is to improve on resources in such a way that consumers are willing to give up more money than was incurred in costs. In order to do this, producers develop technological skills and knowledge. At the same time profit-areas attract competitors who try to do the same thing but better.

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And then there is the general competition where all consumer goods compete with all other consumer goods for buyers, which forces everyone to stay on top of their game.

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What producers do in order to secure profits in the future is commit resources to short-term and long-term investments; depending on the amount of profit and risk they perceive from them.

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Sometimes they commit resources in cooperation with other producers for a shared gain.

If producers make bad estimations and don't invest and produce efficiently and intelligently, they stand to lose all their profits and their capital.

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In order to understand the true effect that resources and man-power involved in a war-effort constitutes, we must consider what those things could have generated were they not shifted away. In a peaceful economy, research and development is carefully aligned with current and future consumer desires, and the capital is distributed according to those who use it the smartest and most responsibly. We must expect a better economic result from that situation.

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§ Finally

The prior mentioned effects occur at both sides of a battle. What then also must be considered is the lost positive effect that trading under the division of labor between the groups could have had on choices, prices and technology in their economies.

http://img146.imageshack.us...
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 11:03:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Okay and . . . ?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/11/2010 11:30:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
lol i was gonna say, at least you have evidence, but those are pictures. they don't make it any more entertaining to read :(
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 11:32:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 11:30:33 AM, belle wrote:
lol i was gonna say, at least you have evidence, but those are pictures. they don't make it any more entertaining to read :(

True dat . . . it would be like charles with a typo . . . it is no more entertaining (no offense to charles I do read your posts but they are really long) . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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12/11/2010 12:33:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ah, the infamous Nielsio. How kind of you to join us. I enjoy both your youtube channel and your vforvoluntary website. One of my favorites was a more recent piece you did on the minimum wage.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Nielsio
Posts: 5
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12/11/2010 1:47:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 12:33:42 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Ah, the infamous Nielsio. How kind of you to join us. I enjoy both your youtube channel and your vforvoluntary website. One of my favorites was a more recent piece you did on the minimum wage.

Hi Reasoning :)

That minimum wage video didn't get a lot of views yet but I'm happy others appreciate it. I'm working on more of them in the same style.

I couldn't find where to add a signature. Can you help me out?
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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12/11/2010 1:54:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 1:47:26 PM, Nielsio wrote:
I couldn't find where to add a signature. Can you help me out?

Certainly. When you reply to this message, below the text box, it says "Signature: Edit my signature." Click it and in the corresponding text box enter your content.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Nielsio
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12/11/2010 2:09:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Certainly. When you reply to this message, below the text box, it says "Signature: Edit my signature." Click it and in the corresponding text box enter your content.

Thanks!
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 2:13:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 12:33:42 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Ah, the infamous Nielsio. How kind of you to join us. I enjoy both your youtube channel and your vforvoluntary website. One of my favorites was a more recent piece you did on the minimum wage.



Minimum wage increases due to inflation nothing else . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/11/2010 2:18:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
War is very good for the economy. So is people being completely irresponsible with their money and spending it all in the market-place.

I'm not so sure the economy is so good for people though.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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12/11/2010 2:26:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
‎"War prosperity is like the prosperity that an earthquake or a plague brings." - Ludwig von Mises
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/11/2010 2:30:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?

Wars end?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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12/11/2010 2:31:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Refer to federal and corporate growth after WWII, war of 1812 and Gulf War.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 2:34:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:31:22 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Refer to federal and corporate growth after WWII, war of 1812 and Gulf War.

So you want another world war eh . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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12/11/2010 2:37:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:34:01 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:31:22 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Refer to federal and corporate growth after WWII, war of 1812 and Gulf War.

So you want another world war eh . . .
Why would you say that?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 2:39:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:37:06 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:34:01 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:31:22 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Refer to federal and corporate growth after WWII, war of 1812 and Gulf War.

So you want another world war eh . . .
Why would you say that?

Are you a war economist or not . . . ?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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12/11/2010 2:42:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:39:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:37:06 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:34:01 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:31:22 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Refer to federal and corporate growth after WWII, war of 1812 and Gulf War.

So you want another world war eh . . .
Why would you say that?

Are you a war economist or not . . . ?

Oh sorry for labeling you WE . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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12/11/2010 2:42:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:39:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:37:06 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:34:01 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:31:22 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 12/11/2010 2:28:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It is only an temporary economic gain for once the war is over many will be out of jobs, plus, is it really worth the lives lost during war . . . ?
Refer to federal and corporate growth after WWII, war of 1812 and Gulf War.

So you want another world war eh . . .
Why would you say that?

Are you a war economist or not . . . ?
Why would I be?

By the way: a "war economist" would mean an economist at wartime.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Nielsio
Posts: 5
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12/12/2010 5:58:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/11/2010 2:18:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
War is very good for the economy. So is people being completely irresponsible with their money and spending it all in the market-place.

I'm not so sure the economy is so good for people though.

Trading for goods that you don't need is not good for yourself. The market benefits from signals that come from people who trade for things that they desire. If you trade all your money away then that means you'll be bankrupt with no money to pay your costs, meaning you'll exit the market place. This lowers the division of labor (specialization and the higher productivity that comes from it). An economy also grows from capital accumulation, which can be used for investment, which can result in higher productivity also. For private persons who don't put their money in a bank for investment, savings and cash reserves are still an investment, but in themselves, allowing their own person to remain in the marketplace and (increasingly) productively so.