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"Immigrants are taking our jobs" argument

Hayd
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6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap. This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place. Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/1/2016 9:39:52 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Immigrants who are granted citizenship because they promise to start a bisiness are obviously going to be a high percentage of entrepenuers. Is he trying to insinuate that Mexicans illegally crossing into America are starting new businesses that employ a bunch of people?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/1/2016 9:42:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap. This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place. Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.

We sgouldn't say immigration is okay because employers can work them to their bones for less than minimum wage.

This also ignores the fact that easy access to cheap labor has caused our agricultural industry to fall behind technology wise, because we aren't forced to adopt new technology as a result of being able to treat Mexican workers unethically.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 10:09:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:39:52 PM, Wylted wrote:
Immigrants who are granted citizenship because they promise to start a bisiness are obviously going to be a high percentage of entrepenuers. Is he trying to insinuate that Mexicans illegally crossing into America are starting new businesses that employ a bunch of people?

No, otherwise they would be legal immigrants. Those that are most likely to start a business are those that are most educated, and those that are most educated are those that are most likely to follow the law and immigrate legally, instead of crossing the border and then calling the man that wants to send you back a racist.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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6/1/2016 10:18:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:42:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap. This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place. Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.

We sgouldn't say immigration is okay because employers can work them to their bones for less than minimum wage.

This also ignores the fact that easy access to cheap labor has caused our agricultural industry to fall behind technology wise, because we aren't forced to adopt new technology as a result of being able to treat Mexican workers unethically.

Basically illegal immigrant is only good because it's illegal. Once they become citizens, there is no difference.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 10:20:20 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:39:52 PM, Wylted wrote:
Immigrants who are granted citizenship because they promise to start a bisiness are obviously going to be a high percentage of entrepenuers. Is he trying to insinuate that Mexicans illegally crossing into America are starting new businesses that employ a bunch of people?

Is there a deal where people are granted citizenship if they promise to start a buisness? can you link me to this law?
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 10:21:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap. This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place. Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.

I'd think that somebody that had no job would prefer a bad job over no job?
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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6/1/2016 10:22:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:21:07 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap. This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place. Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.

I'd think that somebody that had no job would prefer a bad job over no job?

Exactly.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).


Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 10:32:10 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).

Lmao, I love your use of language here to make yourself sound so smart "the response encompassed", "asserted by a question that is brought about:," "the economic state", "I met with due response", lol

The point of the OP, and of the conversation, is whether the jobs created by immigrants that are entrepreneurs makes up for the jobs that immigrants take from native americans.

Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 10:39:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).

Lmao, I love your use of language here to make yourself sound so smart "the response encompassed", "asserted by a question that is brought about:," "the economic state", "I met with due response", lol

I don't like using the same verbiage over and over again because then it sounds dull. If that's enough to tick you off, then you need a bigger vocabulary. I also don't understand how you think that using "the response encompassed" and "the economic state" is somehow language used to make myself sound smart. You're making yourself out to be an even bigger idiot by focusing on vocabulary and drawing random implications that were never there to begin with.


The point of the OP, and of the conversation, is whether the jobs created by immigrants that are entrepreneurs makes up for the jobs that immigrants take from native americans.

By that definition, every single immigrant that is currently working is taking a job from an American, and thus I doubt that immigrants, most of which are not incredibly rich industrialists, make the same amount of jobs as they take out.


Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:39:24 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).

Lmao, I love your use of language here to make yourself sound so smart "the response encompassed", "asserted by a question that is brought about:," "the economic state", "I met with due response", lol

I don't like using the same verbiage over and over again because then it sounds dull. If that's enough to tick you off, then you need a bigger vocabulary. I also don't understand how you think that using "the response encompassed" and "the economic state" is somehow language used to make myself sound smart. You're making yourself out to be an even bigger idiot by focusing on vocabulary and drawing random implications that were never there to begin with.

Thats cool, I just wanted to point something out that was pretty funny ("verbiage" lmfao)

The point of the OP, and of the conversation, is whether the jobs created by immigrants that are entrepreneurs makes up for the jobs that immigrants take from native americans.

By that definition, every single immigrant that is currently working is taking a job from an American, and thus I doubt that immigrants, most of which are not incredibly rich industrialists, make the same amount of jobs as they take out.

As I think tajshar pointed out, immigrants are doing many jobs that americans wouldn't be doing


Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 10:50:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:39:24 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).

Lmao, I love your use of language here to make yourself sound so smart "the response encompassed", "asserted by a question that is brought about:," "the economic state", "I met with due response", lol

I don't like using the same verbiage over and over again because then it sounds dull. If that's enough to tick you off, then you need a bigger vocabulary. I also don't understand how you think that using "the response encompassed" and "the economic state" is somehow language used to make myself sound smart. You're making yourself out to be an even bigger idiot by focusing on vocabulary and drawing random implications that were never there to begin with.

Thats cool, I just wanted to point something out that was pretty funny ("verbiage" lmfao)

You cannot even spell or punctuate correctly, as overlooking your writing there are great amounts of grammatical errors, and you are mocking my usage of language? Pathetic.


The point of the OP, and of the conversation, is whether the jobs created by immigrants that are entrepreneurs makes up for the jobs that immigrants take from native americans.

By that definition, every single immigrant that is currently working is taking a job from an American, and thus I doubt that immigrants, most of which are not incredibly rich industrialists, make the same amount of jobs as they take out.

As I think tajshar pointed out, immigrants are doing many jobs that americans wouldn't be doing

That's not what this is focusing on. It was never stated that the immigrants took jobs that Americans do not want (this is wrong, Americans are more than happy to take these jobs), it was simply stated that immigrants take jobs, and that's it. This is an indisputable fact, that the jobs that immigrants have could easily be replaced with jobs that Americans could be working at, even if it's a smaller fraction.



Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy

I've addressed matters of evolution and various other topics that I believe in but have no authority over. There's a big difference between being a lawyer with no credentials in economics and simply looking at statistics on face value, and being someone with credentials and knowing the mathematics as well as the varying factors behind and leading up to these finalized statistics.

Addressing the economy is one thing, stating that you should take Obama's word for it and draw conclusions from there is another.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 11:00:53 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:50:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:39:24 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).

Lmao, I love your use of language here to make yourself sound so smart "the response encompassed", "asserted by a question that is brought about:," "the economic state", "I met with due response", lol

I don't like using the same verbiage over and over again because then it sounds dull. If that's enough to tick you off, then you need a bigger vocabulary. I also don't understand how you think that using "the response encompassed" and "the economic state" is somehow language used to make myself sound smart. You're making yourself out to be an even bigger idiot by focusing on vocabulary and drawing random implications that were never there to begin with.

Thats cool, I just wanted to point something out that was pretty funny ("verbiage" lmfao)

You cannot even spell or punctuate correctly, as overlooking your writing there are great amounts of grammatical errors, and you are mocking my usage of language? Pathetic.

Omg, I'm tempted to sig this. I'm not, but this is fvcking hilarious. I encourage everyone to read this ^

Trolling you is too much of a noob snipe


The point of the OP, and of the conversation, is whether the jobs created by immigrants that are entrepreneurs makes up for the jobs that immigrants take from native americans.

By that definition, every single immigrant that is currently working is taking a job from an American, and thus I doubt that immigrants, most of which are not incredibly rich industrialists, make the same amount of jobs as they take out.

As I think tajshar pointed out, immigrants are doing many jobs that americans wouldn't be doing

That's not what this is focusing on. It was never stated that the immigrants took jobs that Americans do not want (this is wrong, Americans are more than happy to take these jobs), it was simply stated that immigrants take jobs, and that's it. This is an indisputable fact, that the jobs that immigrants have could easily be replaced with jobs that Americans could be working at, even if it's a smaller fraction.

"This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place."-tajshar


Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy

I've addressed matters of evolution and various other topics that I believe in but have no authority over. There's a big difference between being a lawyer with no credentials in economics and simply looking at statistics on face value, and being someone with credentials and knowing the mathematics as well as the varying factors behind and leading up to these finalized statistics.

Addressing the economy is one thing, stating that you should take Obama's word for it and draw conclusions from there is another.

I never stated that I'm taking Obama's word for it, nor did I draw conclusions from it, I drew conclusions from the cited study (28%). Regardless, Obama has plenty of economic experts that find the results and write up stuff for him. He isn't providing his own economic insight either, he's just bringing up graphs and going over what they mean. If he ever does give economic reasoning, he cites other experts. You don't need to have a degree in economics to bring up a fvcking graph. God damn
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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6/1/2016 11:03:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
On-topic: http://www.theatlantic.com...

At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?
Doubt it

At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap.
See above article

Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.
They're helping themselves and employers, sure - they are certainly not helping native workers.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Hayd
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6/1/2016 11:04:11 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
*You cannot even spell or punctuate correctly, as overlooking your writing there are great amounts of grammatical errors, and you are mocking my usage of language? Pathetic.*

https://media.giphy.com...
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,050
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6/1/2016 11:09:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

I am just going to say that the argument that immigrants take jobs has been repeatedly debunked, including by the Right-Wing American Enterprise Institute.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 11:10:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:00:53 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:50:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:39:24 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:23:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:19:38 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:08:28 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

Obama dispelling economic arguments is like a cleric dispelling arguments about evolution. He has no authority on the matter, especially when he distorts statistics and characterizes them to fit his agenda.

Again, completely irrelevent to the OP. What a user

That response encompassed the majority of what you stated in the OP. The post is asserted by a question that is brought about by President Obama's speech on the economic state of this nation, which I met with due response as he has no authority on the economic state of this nation unless he speaks from an objective point of view, rather than allowing his politics to get in the mix (which always happens with him).

Lmao, I love your use of language here to make yourself sound so smart "the response encompassed", "asserted by a question that is brought about:," "the economic state", "I met with due response", lol

I don't like using the same verbiage over and over again because then it sounds dull. If that's enough to tick you off, then you need a bigger vocabulary. I also don't understand how you think that using "the response encompassed" and "the economic state" is somehow language used to make myself sound smart. You're making yourself out to be an even bigger idiot by focusing on vocabulary and drawing random implications that were never there to begin with.

Thats cool, I just wanted to point something out that was pretty funny ("verbiage" lmfao)

You cannot even spell or punctuate correctly, as overlooking your writing there are great amounts of grammatical errors, and you are mocking my usage of language? Pathetic.

Omg, I'm tempted to sig this. I'm not, but this is fvcking hilarious. I encourage everyone to read this ^

Trolling you is too much of a noob snipe


The point of the OP, and of the conversation, is whether the jobs created by immigrants that are entrepreneurs makes up for the jobs that immigrants take from native americans.

By that definition, every single immigrant that is currently working is taking a job from an American, and thus I doubt that immigrants, most of which are not incredibly rich industrialists, make the same amount of jobs as they take out.

As I think tajshar pointed out, immigrants are doing many jobs that americans wouldn't be doing

That's not what this is focusing on. It was never stated that the immigrants took jobs that Americans do not want (this is wrong, Americans are more than happy to take these jobs), it was simply stated that immigrants take jobs, and that's it. This is an indisputable fact, that the jobs that immigrants have could easily be replaced with jobs that Americans could be working at, even if it's a smaller fraction.

"This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place."-tajshar

What's the point of inserting Taj's argument in here? More competition does lower wages across the board, especially when that competition only has an incentive to get a job, not to earn a lot of money.



Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy

I've addressed matters of evolution and various other topics that I believe in but have no authority over. There's a big difference between being a lawyer with no credentials in economics and simply looking at statistics on face value, and being someone with credentials and knowing the mathematics as well as the varying factors behind and leading up to these finalized statistics.

Addressing the economy is one thing, stating that you should take Obama's word for it and draw conclusions from there is another.

I never stated that I'm taking Obama's word for it, nor did I draw conclusions from it, I drew conclusions from the cited study (28%). Regardless, Obama has plenty of economic experts that find the results and write up stuff for him. He isn't providing his own economic insight either, he's just bringing up graphs and going over what they mean. If he ever does give economic reasoning, he cites other experts. You don't need to have a degree in economics to bring up a fvcking graph. God damn

Yes, you did. You stated that he has authority on the subject, and through this you drew your conclusion for the question you asked. Needless to say, this is starting to get semantic.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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6/1/2016 11:22:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:03:19 PM, someloser wrote:
On-topic: http://www.theatlantic.com...

At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?
Doubt it

At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap.
See above article

Sorry, I don't have the time to read and understand the article. If you can just copy and paste what parts are key, that would make it easier for me.

Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.
They're helping themselves and employers, sure - they are certainly not helping native workers.

But, I said they were helping the economy.

Please watch this video

https://www.youtube.com...
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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6/1/2016 11:24:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 9:42:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:33:44 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:

The immigrants taking jobs is absolute crap. This argument is usually targetted towards Mexicans, because they work low wages, but the truth is, most people do not want to do those jobs in the first place. Mexicans working for under value pay are helping the economy far more than #FightFor15 lobbyists.

We sgouldn't say immigration is okay because employers can work them to their bones for less than minimum wage.

This also ignores the fact that easy access to cheap labor has caused our agricultural industry to fall behind technology wise, because we aren't forced to adopt new technology as a result of being able to treat Mexican workers unethically.

We just cant shake that slave agriculture model apparently...
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 11:28:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:09:04 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

I am just going to say that the argument that immigrants take jobs has been repeatedly debunked, including by the Right-Wing American Enterprise Institute.

It's not necessarily debunked, so much as they halt technological progress that is brought about by competition without regulation. In this case, illegal immigrants to take jobs from a pool that American workers could apply in, but what's interesting to note is that the added benefit of extra labor without the requirement for a lot of skill will equate to extra productivity that is far more industrious than the small amount you will have to pay in extra wages to more workers. The flip side is that the inability for Americans to compete with illegals, as Americans have to abide by labor standards and they do not, allows for illegal immigrants to very easily siphon money out of the economy while putting very little back in.

It's not bunk, but it's also not completely true either. We need to further definite what each term means to understand it better.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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6/1/2016 11:36:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:09:04 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 9:28:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
I was watching President Obama Delivers Remarks on the Economy [https://www.youtube.com...], and he was dispeling economic myths (like Obamacare, minimum wage stuff his opponent's were bringing up). He then moved to immigration (51.38), and said that immigrants start 30% of all new buisnesses in america. I found that it was around 28%, but whatevs [http://www.renewoureconomy.org...]. Considering that new buisnesses create more jobs, do immigrants make up for the amount of jobs they take from americans by being entrepreneurs?

I am just going to say that the argument that immigrants take jobs has been repeatedly debunked, including by the Right-Wing American Enterprise Institute.

Ooooh, I'd be interested in those links
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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6/1/2016 11:45:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:25:51 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Our economy will be just fine if we refuse to subsidize mexico's trash.

+1
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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6/1/2016 11:52:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 10:50:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM, Hayd wrote:


That's not what this is focusing on. It was never stated that the immigrants took jobs that Americans do not want (this is wrong, Americans are more than happy to take these jobs)
Many Americans who take the same jobs as Mexicans for the same wage, are less productive and try to get away with doing the least amount of work as possible. They are less than happy to take any job where they have to work a job that is unrewarding outside of doing the job well, just for the sake of being able to. Many American's work ethics are all about recognition and brown nosing to get out of having to be productive, or being able to slack in exchange for scratching the bosses a$$.

, it was simply stated that immigrants take jobs, and that's it. This is an indisputable fact, that the jobs that immigrants have could easily be replaced with jobs that Americans could be working at, even if it's a smaller fraction.



Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy

I've addressed matters of evolution and various other topics that I believe in but have no authority over. There's a big difference between being a lawyer with no credentials in economics and simply looking at statistics on face value, and being someone with credentials and knowing the mathematics as well as the varying factors behind and leading up to these finalized statistics.

Addressing the economy is one thing, stating that you should take Obama's word for it and draw conclusions from there is another.
bballcrook21
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6/1/2016 11:54:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:52:01 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:50:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM, Hayd wrote:


That's not what this is focusing on. It was never stated that the immigrants took jobs that Americans do not want (this is wrong, Americans are more than happy to take these jobs)
Many Americans who take the same jobs as Mexicans for the same wage, are less productive and try to get away with doing the least amount of work as possible. They are less than happy to take any job where they have to work a job that is unrewarding outside of doing the job well, just for the sake of being able to. Many American's work ethics are all about recognition and brown nosing to get out of having to be productive, or being able to slack in exchange for scratching the bosses a$$.

Can I get some statistics to back this up, or is it all anecdotal evidence?

The fact is, there's no benefit in working harder for the sake of working hard, which is the same as working more for the sake of working more. The point of labor and innovation it to do as much as possible with as little as possible, which is called efficiency. If a Mexican can do the job better than an American, then more power to that Mexican to keep going with their career. If they cannot, and require legislation to do better, then the opposite should occur.


, it was simply stated that immigrants take jobs, and that's it. This is an indisputable fact, that the jobs that immigrants have could easily be replaced with jobs that Americans could be working at, even if it's a smaller fraction.



Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy

I've addressed matters of evolution and various other topics that I believe in but have no authority over. There's a big difference between being a lawyer with no credentials in economics and simply looking at statistics on face value, and being someone with credentials and knowing the mathematics as well as the varying factors behind and leading up to these finalized statistics.

Addressing the economy is one thing, stating that you should take Obama's word for it and draw conclusions from there is another.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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6/2/2016 12:09:42 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 11:54:57 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 11:52:01 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:50:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 6/1/2016 10:46:19 PM, Hayd wrote:


That's not what this is focusing on. It was never stated that the immigrants took jobs that Americans do not want (this is wrong, Americans are more than happy to take these jobs)
Many Americans who take the same jobs as Mexicans for the same wage, are less productive and try to get away with doing the least amount of work as possible. They are less than happy to take any job where they have to work a job that is unrewarding outside of doing the job well, just for the sake of being able to. Many American's work ethics are all about recognition and brown nosing to get out of having to be productive, or being able to slack in exchange for scratching the bosses a$$.

Can I get some statistics to back this up, or is it all anecdotal evidence?

The fact is, there's no benefit in working harder for the sake of working hard, which is the same as working more for the sake of working more. The point of labor and innovation it to do as much as possible with as little as possible, which is called efficiency. If a Mexican can do the job better than an American, then more power to that Mexican to keep going with their career. If they cannot, and require legislation to do better, then the opposite should occur.

I agree with you 100% about working efficiently! I am speaking from experience and have learned how to be a productive and efficient worker from working along side Mexicans, who are a pleasure to work with. Americans are a pain in the arse to work with, from my own experience. They don't practice teamwork and will push as much work as they are able onto workers who are the most efficient and productive. I work like a Mexican, and I have a problem with American co workers who kiss arse and get to slack for doing so. Mexican workers are hated because most American workers look like sh!t in comparison, and it's why my co workers get jealous of me as well.


, it was simply stated that immigrants take jobs, and that's it. This is an indisputable fact, that the jobs that immigrants have could easily be replaced with jobs that Americans could be working at, even if it's a smaller fraction.



Regardless, I think that a president has the ability to speak on the economic well-being of the nation, its something every president has done and is not a wild-assertion to say so. Its even more reasonable given he's reporting the effectiveness of various programs (immigration laws, obamacare, etc.)

Yes, as per the 1st amendment and the fact that the President has quite a lot of say (unfortunately) in the economy, he retains the right to speak about it. However, he doesn't retain the right to consider himself an entity that has authority on the matter nor does he has the credibility and expertise to consider himself someone that should be listened to by constituents around the country on economic matters. He has misrepresented quite a lot of what he says, and judging by his economic policies, he has yet to retain a firm grasp on the field, and thus I have lost all trust for him.

He is the president, he has the right, the authority, and the obligation to address the economic well being of the nation.

That's not what I was saying, nor something I was disputing. I just think that your argument that Obama's case for immigration and the economic factors accompanying such are not the standard authority on a matter that he is not specialized enough to understand. He is a lawyer, not an economist or anything that deals with the financial sector.

You literally said that he has no authority on the matter. He does, he's the president. Whether he is a lawyer or economist doesn't change the fact that he has to address the economy

I've addressed matters of evolution and various other topics that I believe in but have no authority over. There's a big difference between being a lawyer with no credentials in economics and simply looking at statistics on face value, and being someone with credentials and knowing the mathematics as well as the varying factors behind and leading up to these finalized statistics.

Addressing the economy is one thing, stating that you should take Obama's word for it and draw conclusions from there is another.