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Why Should I vote for Clinton?

Bennett91
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6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?
JurassinJohn
Posts: 29
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6/9/2016 4:55:47 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Whether or not you should vote for Hillary should rest on whether or not you prefer her to trump. If you like neither that's fine and I completely agree with you I think both candidates are mediocre options but I'm still voting because I believe it's our job as citizens of the US to make sure we elect the best leaders of the country or in this case the least worst. It's a game of pick your poison and seeing which leaders agenda align most with your own and if neither do, vote for the one you think would hurt our country less.
Bennett91
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6/9/2016 5:04:20 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:55:47 AM, JurassinJohn wrote:
Whether or not you should vote for Hillary should rest on whether or not you prefer her to trump. If you like neither that's fine and I completely agree with you I think both candidates are mediocre options but I'm still voting because I believe it's our job as citizens of the US to make sure we elect the best leaders of the country or in this case the least worst. It's a game of pick your poison and seeing which leaders agenda align most with your own and if neither do, vote for the one you think would hurt our country less.

Well I'm thinking about voting for Trump out of spite because I believe Hillary rigged the democratic primary. So this forum is a matter to forgo accusations of rigging to ask about policy and integrity. I would prefer Trump over the status quo, shake things up a bit.
Fly
Posts: 2,049
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6/9/2016 5:06:43 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

I should begin with a disclaimer that I don't personally know anyone with a particular affinity for Clinton beyond the "first woman POTUS" groundbreaker.

Having been the First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years and a senator for NY, she could be in a pretty unique position to galvanize support from both northern and southern democrats. Obama was largely unable to do this (he is neither southern nor... you know). She is incredibly well connected politically and is no stranger to the way our federal government operates.

She is probably the best candidate regarding the health of the economy. Foremost, she would probably retain Janet Yellen as the Fed chair-- Yellen has proven herself to be a very good choice for that role.

If you have been at all chafed by the outcome of the many 5-4 decisions of the Supreme Court along party lines, then you can rest assured that Clinton will tip the balance of jurisprudence the other way with the current vacancy.

And that is about the best I can do off the top of my head...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
JurassinJohn
Posts: 29
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6/9/2016 5:17:36 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:04:20 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/9/2016 4:55:47 AM, JurassinJohn wrote:
Whether or not you should vote for Hillary should rest on whether or not you prefer her to trump. If you like neither that's fine and I completely agree with you I think both candidates are mediocre options but I'm still voting because I believe it's our job as citizens of the US to make sure we elect the best leaders of the country or in this case the least worst. It's a game of pick your poison and seeing which leaders agenda align most with your own and if neither do, vote for the one you think would hurt our country less.

Well I'm thinking about voting for Trump out of spite because I believe Hillary rigged the democratic primary. So this forum is a matter to forgo accusations of rigging to ask about policy and integrity. I would prefer Trump over the status quo, shake things up a bit.
To each their own, just be sure to not vote for someone just because someone on here tries to sway you with a biased opinion. I'm sure this thread will soon be flooded with radical left and right wing members who will give you a list of reasons why their choice is the only answer. Just dismiss them and stay par for the course.
Bennett91
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6/9/2016 5:18:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:06:43 AM, Fly wrote:

I should begin with a disclaimer that I don't personally know anyone with a particular affinity for Clinton beyond the "first woman POTUS" groundbreaker.

I wonder how many people %-wise voted with that sole purpose in mind ...

Having been the First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years and a senator for NY, she could be in a pretty unique position to galvanize support from both northern and southern democrats. Obama was largely unable to do this (he is neither southern nor... you know). She is incredibly well connected politically and is no stranger to the way our federal government operates.

True. Very interesting. But true, she sure used her connections to rig the primary, she can utilize that corrupt infrastructure to get things done. I like it, terrifying but effective. But what does she want to get with that power? She's well connected with political and economic elites, but I don't trust their agenda, they don't want change.

She is probably the best candidate regarding the health of the economy. Foremost, she would probably retain Janet Yellen as the Fed chair-- Yellen has proven herself to be a very good choice for that role.

Idk Trumps stance on Yellen; but Trump's a business man. Doesn't that give him an edge about how to run a business ie what's good for business?

If you have been at all chafed by the outcome of the many 5-4 decisions of the Supreme Court along party lines, then you can rest assured that Clinton will tip the balance of jurisprudence the other way with the current vacancy.

True, good point. But would it mean she proposes a candidate sympathetic to polluting corporations and banks? Social freedoms are nice, but they are a distraction when bigger economic forces are getting their way.

And that is about the best I can do off the top of my head...

Nice, I like it.
Fly
Posts: 2,049
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6/9/2016 5:37:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:18:57 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/9/2016 5:06:43 AM, Fly wrote:

I should begin with a disclaimer that I don't personally know anyone with a particular affinity for Clinton beyond the "first woman POTUS" groundbreaker.

I wonder how many people %-wise voted with that sole purpose in mind ...

A majority, probably. I did know of a family friend back in the 90's who heard a speech from Ms. Clinton and came away impressed. I was a Republican back then, though, so I just took it on board with a shrug...

Having been the First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years and a senator for NY, she could be in a pretty unique position to galvanize support from both northern and southern democrats. Obama was largely unable to do this (he is neither southern nor... you know). She is incredibly well connected politically and is no stranger to the way our federal government operates.

True. Very interesting. But true, she sure used her connections to rig the primary, she can utilize that corrupt infrastructure to get things done. I like it, terrifying but effective. But what does she want to get with that power? She's well connected with political and economic elites, but I don't trust their agenda, they don't want change.

The US is so divided politically right now that I don't think any president is going to have the mandate necessary for transformative change. Checks and balances-- both a blessing and a curse.

She is probably the best candidate regarding the health of the economy. Foremost, she would probably retain Janet Yellen as the Fed chair-- Yellen has proven herself to be a very good choice for that role.

Idk Trumps stance on Yellen; but Trump's a business man. Doesn't that give him an edge about how to run a business ie what's good for business?

Trump has mentioned the distinct possibility of replacing Yellen solely because she is a Democrat appointee. I would not have mentioned it in the first place if it were already a point of commonality between Clinton and Trump.

Also, there is this article about capital gains tax, among other policies:

http://www.wsj.com...

I also invite you to check out our very own Economics forum and the "10 economic truths" thread.

If you have been at all chafed by the outcome of the many 5-4 decisions of the Supreme Court along party lines, then you can rest assured that Clinton will tip the balance of jurisprudence the other way with the current vacancy.

True, good point. But would it mean she proposes a candidate sympathetic to polluting corporations and banks? Social freedoms are nice, but they are a distraction when bigger economic forces are getting their way.

Well, take a look at how and why the decisions go in favor of corporations over the average citizen, and see if it isn't the same Republican appointed judges almost every time.

And that is about the best I can do off the top of my head...

Nice, I like it.

Glad I could help.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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6/9/2016 6:26:17 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:37:28 AM, Fly wrote:

The US is so divided politically right now that I don't think any president is going to have the mandate necessary for transformative change. Checks and balances-- both a blessing and a curse.

Obama literally won on hope and change ...

Also, there is this article about capital gains tax, among other policies:

http://www.wsj.com...

It's behind a pay wall. and the head line says 'some'.

I also invite you to check out our very own Economics forum and the "10 economic truths" thread.

I read them, not very impressive.

Well, take a look at how and why the decisions go in favor of corporations over the average citizen, and see if it isn't the same Republican appointed judges almost every time.

But party isn't an issue if she won't attempt to repeal Citizens United. That's what Bernie supporters want.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/9/2016 1:13:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Drumpf, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

Worth of a Bump

Bump.
Meh!
Fly
Posts: 2,049
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6/9/2016 2:41:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 6:26:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/9/2016 5:37:28 AM, Fly wrote:

The US is so divided politically right now that I don't think any president is going to have the mandate necessary for transformative change. Checks and balances-- both a blessing and a curse.

Obama literally won on hope and change ...

And? We're talking of concrete points here, not what the rhetoric is.

Also, there is this article about capital gains tax, among other policies:

http://www.wsj.com...

It's behind a pay wall. and the head line says 'some'.

That's funny-- I saw the entire article the first time I pulled it up. The "some" refers to those who are in the highest tax bracket-- like over $400k.

There are other articles on it, I'm sure.

I also invite you to check out our very own Economics forum and the "10 economic truths" thread.

I read them, not very impressive.

Ok.

Well, take a look at how and why the decisions go in favor of corporations over the average citizen, and see if it isn't the same Republican appointed judges almost every time.

But party isn't an issue if she won't attempt to repeal Citizens United. That's what Bernie supporters want.

I didn't mention repealment. I'm talking about close SCOTUS decisions going forward.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,337
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6/9/2016 3:17:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 1:13:51 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Drumpf, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

Worth of a Bump

Bump.

2 dollars a bump from the Hillary pacs?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,086
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6/9/2016 5:44:11 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Trump will rein in the dirty corporate practice of offshoring, which strips working-class Americans of jobs so that big businesses can maximise their profits. Trump will put an end to American warmongering in the middle east, a practice which only benefits oil barons and defense contractor big businesses and costs the lives of thousands of Americans. He will uphold social security, which quite literally keeps the elderly alive. He will stop blindly supporting Israel. He is not interested in a Christian theocracy, unlike Lyin' Ted and the GOP establishment. Donald Trump cannot be bought by Wall Street.
In short, you should prefer Trump over Clinton.
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brontoraptor
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6/9/2016 5:46:40 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

To finish off once and for all what is left of the carcass of what used to be called the United States of America?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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6/9/2016 5:50:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

Look at the right side. At least her right hand woman is associated with the Muslim Brotherhood(one of the biggest terror organizations on Earth) and was indicted by the FBI.

(Bronto scampers off into the weeds)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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6/9/2016 6:21:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

Are you in a battleground state? Look, I doubt I will be the one to give you any reason to vote FOR her, but the piratical concerns are real. She will be a very competent POTUS, not inspiring or progressive, simple competent. If you are in a battleground, it should be clear, go vote for him, but I can't point you at any bit of character, policy or vision that I would credit her with past that.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,289
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6/9/2016 6:22:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo.

There are good reasons for Bernie to vote for Trump. He's running the most labor-positive campaigns on the right in decades. For as long as I can remember, Republicans have been bitching about how the US is losing on the world stage because unions promoted 'unrealistic expectations.' Trump is one of the first candidates to say that a living wage isn't an unrealistic expectation, and that the status quo exists because politicians have sold the American worker out to corporate interests via free trade deals which fail to protect American labor, to the immense benefit of multinational corporations who are beholden only to their own interests. If a company wants access to American markets, they should be forced to invest in American labor. That's the path for growth across the board, not the 'service-based economy' which the conservatives (and many Democrats) spent three decades jacking off to.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
1harderthanyouthink
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6/9/2016 6:23:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 6:22:36 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo.

There are good reasons for Bernie to vote for Trump. He's running the most labor-positive campaigns on the right in decades. For as long as I can remember, Republicans have been bitching about how the US is losing on the world stage because unions promoted 'unrealistic expectations.' Trump is one of the first candidates to say that a living wage isn't an unrealistic expectation, and that the status quo exists because politicians have sold the American worker out to corporate interests via free trade deals which fail to protect American labor, to the immense benefit of multinational corporations who are beholden only to their own interests. If a company wants access to American markets, they should be forced to invest in American labor. That's the path for growth across the board, not the 'service-based economy' which the conservatives (and many Democrats) spent three decades jacking off to.

He's a great change to the left-right facade that has screwed so many working and middle class people over the years.
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Carolean_Karl
Posts: 60
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6/9/2016 6:49:03 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 5:04:20 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/9/2016 4:55:47 AM, JurassinJohn wrote:
Whether or not you should vote for Hillary should rest on whether or not you prefer her to trump. If you like neither that's fine and I completely agree with you I think both candidates are mediocre options but I'm still voting because I believe it's our job as citizens of the US to make sure we elect the best leaders of the country or in this case the least worst. It's a game of pick your poison and seeing which leaders agenda align most with your own and if neither do, vote for the one you think would hurt our country less.

Well I'm thinking about voting for Trump out of spite because I believe Hillary rigged the democratic primary. So this forum is a matter to forgo accusations of rigging to ask about policy and integrity. I would prefer Trump over the status quo, shake things up a bit.

+1
Bennett91
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6/10/2016 3:46:10 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 6:22:36 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

There are good reasons for Bernie to vote for Trump. He's running the most labor-positive campaigns on the right in decades. For as long as I can remember, Republicans have been bitching about how the US is losing on the world stage because unions promoted 'unrealistic expectations.' Trump is one of the first candidates to say that a living wage isn't an unrealistic expectation, and that the status quo exists because politicians have sold the American worker out to corporate interests via free trade deals which fail to protect American labor, to the immense benefit of multinational corporations who are beholden only to their own interests. If a company wants access to American markets, they should be forced to invest in American labor. That's the path for growth across the board, not the 'service-based economy' which the conservatives (and many Democrats) spent three decades jacking off to.

And you don't think he'll sell us out to corporations like Clinton? Is he pro union at all?
Skepsikyma
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6/10/2016 3:59:47 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:46:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/9/2016 6:22:36 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

There are good reasons for Bernie to vote for Trump. He's running the most labor-positive campaigns on the right in decades. For as long as I can remember, Republicans have been bitching about how the US is losing on the world stage because unions promoted 'unrealistic expectations.' Trump is one of the first candidates to say that a living wage isn't an unrealistic expectation, and that the status quo exists because politicians have sold the American worker out to corporate interests via free trade deals which fail to protect American labor, to the immense benefit of multinational corporations who are beholden only to their own interests. If a company wants access to American markets, they should be forced to invest in American labor. That's the path for growth across the board, not the 'service-based economy' which the conservatives (and many Democrats) spent three decades jacking off to.

And you don't think he'll sell us out to corporations like Clinton?

Lol, why would he? He doesn't have to in order to become rich. Trump wants to be President for the power, not the wealth, and I do believe that he is sincerely nationalist.

Is he pro union at all?

He's flirted with the idea, often in ways which hilariously pissed of Republicans. He's for putting American labor first in trade negotiations, and he's for safety nets. He'll probably more strongly outline his position as the race moves on. He's also drawing immense support from union members, but not from the leadership. And their criticisms of him aren't that he's anti-labor, but that he's (you guessed it) 'a racist, a sexist, and a bigot'. He's been tellingly tight-lipped about things like the minimum wage during the primaries, which makes me think that he's pro. If he were con, he would have brought it up to score political points. Trump is going to 'pivot' on a lot of things without actually pivoting, because they are the subjects which he danced around in the primaries. A LOT of them have to do with unions.

Personally, I think that union bosses are often corrupt, and have a tendency to sell out workers in order to maintain (Democratic) political connections. I know that my union was PISSED when the leadership endorsed Hillary instead of Bernie, because the members overwhelmingly supported the latter. I think that union members may politically revolt in this election.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Bennett91
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6/10/2016 7:41:17 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 6:21:34 PM, TBR wrote:

Are you in a battleground state? Look, I doubt I will be the one to give you any reason to vote FOR her, but the piratical concerns are real. She will be a very competent POTUS, not inspiring or progressive, simple competent. If you are in a battleground, it should be clear, go vote for him, but I can't point you at any bit of character, policy or vision that I would credit her with past that.

I'm in California, so probably Hillary will win. But what I'm interested in is how can you say she'll be 'compotent' yet you can't say what in her past points to this conclusion? I agree, I'm sure she is competent and can get things done. But what she wants to do seems antithetical to what a Sanders supporter would want to get done.
slo1
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6/10/2016 1:03:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
It has already been said, but worth mentioning again, SCOTUS.

If you vote for Democrats to avoid a social conservative justice you won't have to wake up and go to the police station to remove your chasity belt to take a waz each morning.

With that said both candidates want to raise middle class incomes. Trump would do it by reducing taxes on rich and for profitable companies and Hillary would keep the level of progressive taxes. Who do you believe will create a better ecomic environment.

Another key difference is that Hillary would spend on things like renewable energy and Trump would spend on military. For all these people telling you there are no good reasons to vote for Hillary other than, not Trump there are stark policy differences between the two.
Lsumichiganfan
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6/10/2016 1:37:53 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:55:47 AM, JurassinJohn wrote:
Whether or not you should vote for Hillary should rest on whether or not you prefer her to trump. If you like neither that's fine and I completely agree with you I think both candidates are mediocre options but I'm still voting because I believe it's our job as citizens of the US to make sure we elect the best leaders of the country or in this case the least worst. It's a game of pick your poison and seeing which leaders agenda align most with your own and if neither do, vote for the one you think would hurt our country less.

+1
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Lsumichiganfan
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6/10/2016 1:39:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary? The obvious response would because her values are more aligned with mine. But are they?

When it comes to checking Wall Street she openly admits during her time as Senator she represented them, and she refuses to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave them. How can I trust her when she says she'll stand up to Wall Street and big banks when they are her top donors? She says she told them 'cut it out' yet she refuses to prove this and during the primary she only adopted anti-wall street rhetoric after she saw Sanders gaining popularity from it.

I seriously doubt her foreign policy experience. I remember when she was Sec of State and hit the 'reset' button with Russia. What a shocker a few years later Russia annexed the Crimea. Furthermore her emails that were hacked were obtained by Russia. She is careless with security and it has jeopardized America's standing. How can I trust President Clinton to use the correct secure email servers when she has obvious reason to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests?

She publicly supported the Iraq War on the senate floor, and told business interests to think of it as an opportunity. She has been accused by Honduran nationals as being directly responsible for the coup there in 2009. She is a war hawk no doubt about it.

On healthcare she doesn't want to push it further, she wants to keep it the way it is. Sure it hasn't been overly terrible, but it has not solved much of the major issues of healthcare like cost and access. Obamacare should be called Romney-care, Hillary seeks to continue this Republican policy.

What are her stances on education and reversing the trend of wealth inequality? How is Hillary anything other than the status quo?

Three words; Better Than Trump
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
TBR
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6/10/2016 2:57:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 7:41:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 6/9/2016 6:21:34 PM, TBR wrote:

Are you in a battleground state? Look, I doubt I will be the one to give you any reason to vote FOR her, but the piratical concerns are real. She will be a very competent POTUS, not inspiring or progressive, simple competent. If you are in a battleground, it should be clear, go vote for him, but I can't point you at any bit of character, policy or vision that I would credit her with past that.

I'm in California, so probably Hillary will win. But what I'm interested in is how can you say she'll be 'compotent' yet you can't say what in her past points to this conclusion? I agree, I'm sure she is competent and can get things done. But what she wants to do seems antithetical to what a Sanders supporter would want to get done.

Ca is plenty safe - you can skip it too.

I will tell you the nanosecond she lost my vote. The day she gushed over Nancy and Ronald Reagan's history on AIDs. She later tried to real it back with "I was thinking of stem cells" - just as bad. That galvanized to me how craven she really. I am mad typing right now just thinking about it. F*ck her.
Rukado
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6/10/2016 3:02:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary?

You shouldn't. Hillary is very tight with Wall Street. She's also very pro-war, which is why the leader of the #NeverTrump movement, the Iraq War architect William Kristol, wants her to win.
TBR
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6/10/2016 3:09:22 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:02:18 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 6/9/2016 4:25:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I'm a Sanders supporter, without bashing on Trump, why should I vote for Hillary?

You shouldn't. Hillary is very tight with Wall Street. She's also very pro-war, which is why the leader of the #NeverTrump movement, the Iraq War architect William Kristol, wants her to win.

You made it through a post without blanket insults. Good for you.
Bennett91
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6/10/2016 6:07:55 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/10/2016 3:19:33 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/10/2016 1:39:24 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:

Three words; Better Than Trump

More like 2 words.

Status Quo.

That's what I'm saying! Even if Trump is a loon at least he'll be a fermenting agent for the bubbling progressive left to rebel against.