Total Posts:51|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Gun Control Bill gets blocked in the Senate

Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:31:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Republicans are willing to megotiate for the first time ever and merely ask that the FBI cannot randomly choose who to ban guns from all willy nilly, and also want them to be able to look into a threat to see if the report is legit before putting them on a banned gun list, but Democrats want to reject some sensible checks and balances on the government to grab guns when they feel like it, and for whatever reason they feel like it
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:39:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:31:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
Republicans are willing to megotiate for the first time ever and merely ask that the FBI cannot randomly choose who to ban guns from all willy nilly, and also want them to be able to look into a threat to see if the report is legit before putting them on a banned gun list, but Democrats want to reject some sensible checks and balances on the government to grab guns when they feel like it, and for whatever reason they feel like it

The Republican amendments were awfully ineffective - especially the 72 hour period.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ThinkBig
Posts: 1,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:40:51 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Time to vote out the NRA from congress. Exactly why we need to overturn Citizens United.
ThinkBig
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notable Notes and Quotable Quotes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I GOT SIG'D"
"WELL FVCK ME IN THE A$SHOLE AND CALL ME A CUCK I GOT SIG'D AGAIN"
-Kiri
If anyone's getting modkilled, it's kiri. Just for his sig.
-7th
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge or vote? Nominate me!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:48:35 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:39:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:31:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
Republicans are willing to megotiate for the first time ever and merely ask that the FBI cannot randomly choose who to ban guns from all willy nilly, and also want them to be able to look into a threat to see if the report is legit before putting them on a banned gun list, but Democrats want to reject some sensible checks and balances on the government to grab guns when they feel like it, and for whatever reason they feel like it

The Republican amendments were awfully ineffective - especially the 72 hour period.

I haven't read the bills. The story I'm getting is that Republicans want some restrictions on this so it does not become a tool for abuse by the FBI, and that the Democrats are resisting any and all checks on the FBI's avility to ban or even look into a person to see if they deserve to be on the list.

What is the 72 hour thing? Is that like just giving the FBI 72 hours to figure out the threat level of somebody before they can ban the gun buys?

If so, a 72 hour grace period to see if a threat is a prank phone call or serious, seems reasonable.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:51:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:40:51 PM, ThinkBig wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Time to vote out the NRA from congress. Exactly why we need to overturn Citizens United.

It is actually the Republicans trying to pass the bills this time, while Democrats are trying to take advantage of the situation by making a gun grab. It looks like nothing will get passed, because Democrats are not willing to compromise as the Republicans have, and nust signing the bill they propose
ThinkBig
Posts: 1,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:55:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:51:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:40:51 PM, ThinkBig wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Time to vote out the NRA from congress. Exactly why we need to overturn Citizens United.

It is actually the Republicans trying to pass the bills this time, while Democrats are trying to take advantage of the situation by making a gun grab. It looks like nothing will get passed, because Democrats are not willing to compromise as the Republicans have, and nust signing the bill they propose

Do you have the roll call vote?
ThinkBig
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notable Notes and Quotable Quotes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I GOT SIG'D"
"WELL FVCK ME IN THE A$SHOLE AND CALL ME A CUCK I GOT SIG'D AGAIN"
-Kiri
If anyone's getting modkilled, it's kiri. Just for his sig.
-7th
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge or vote? Nominate me!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:00:57 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:48:35 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:39:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:31:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
Republicans are willing to megotiate for the first time ever and merely ask that the FBI cannot randomly choose who to ban guns from all willy nilly, and also want them to be able to look into a threat to see if the report is legit before putting them on a banned gun list, but Democrats want to reject some sensible checks and balances on the government to grab guns when they feel like it, and for whatever reason they feel like it

The Republican amendments were awfully ineffective - especially the 72 hour period.

I haven't read the bills. The story I'm getting is that Republicans want some restrictions on this so it does not become a tool for abuse by the FBI, and that the Democrats are resisting any and all checks on the FBI's avility to ban or even look into a person to see if they deserve to be on the list.

What is the 72 hour thing? Is that like just giving the FBI 72 hours to figure out the threat level of somebody before they can ban the gun buys?

If so, a 72 hour grace period to see if a threat is a prank phone call or serious, seems reasonable.

The amendment allowed the Attorney General 72 hours to make a case for people on the terror watch list for why they should be blocked from purchasing a gun. Loretta Lynch said a 72 hour period is impossible to work with - so anyone on that list will still be able to buy a gun.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:08:03 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:00:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:48:35 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:39:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:31:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
Republicans are willing to megotiate for the first time ever and merely ask that the FBI cannot randomly choose who to ban guns from all willy nilly, and also want them to be able to look into a threat to see if the report is legit before putting them on a banned gun list, but Democrats want to reject some sensible checks and balances on the government to grab guns when they feel like it, and for whatever reason they feel like it

The Republican amendments were awfully ineffective - especially the 72 hour period.

I haven't read the bills. The story I'm getting is that Republicans want some restrictions on this so it does not become a tool for abuse by the FBI, and that the Democrats are resisting any and all checks on the FBI's avility to ban or even look into a person to see if they deserve to be on the list.

What is the 72 hour thing? Is that like just giving the FBI 72 hours to figure out the threat level of somebody before they can ban the gun buys?

If so, a 72 hour grace period to see if a threat is a prank phone call or serious, seems reasonable.

The amendment allowed the Attorney General 72 hours to make a case for people on the terror watch list for why they should be blocked from purchasing a gun. Loretta Lynch said a 72 hour period is impossible to work with - so anyone on that list will still be able to buy a gun.

That seems reasonable. Hell just put me in charge of that, the FBIbprividing all the evidence to me and everything? I could do 50 cases a day
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:22:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:08:03 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 3:00:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:48:35 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:39:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:31:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
Republicans are willing to megotiate for the first time ever and merely ask that the FBI cannot randomly choose who to ban guns from all willy nilly, and also want them to be able to look into a threat to see if the report is legit before putting them on a banned gun list, but Democrats want to reject some sensible checks and balances on the government to grab guns when they feel like it, and for whatever reason they feel like it

The Republican amendments were awfully ineffective - especially the 72 hour period.

I haven't read the bills. The story I'm getting is that Republicans want some restrictions on this so it does not become a tool for abuse by the FBI, and that the Democrats are resisting any and all checks on the FBI's avility to ban or even look into a person to see if they deserve to be on the list.

What is the 72 hour thing? Is that like just giving the FBI 72 hours to figure out the threat level of somebody before they can ban the gun buys?

If so, a 72 hour grace period to see if a threat is a prank phone call or serious, seems reasonable.

The amendment allowed the Attorney General 72 hours to make a case for people on the terror watch list for why they should be blocked from purchasing a gun. Loretta Lynch said a 72 hour period is impossible to work with - so anyone on that list will still be able to buy a gun.

That seems reasonable. Hell just put me in charge of that, the FBIbprividing all the evidence to me and everything? I could do 50 cases a day

If it were as simple as writing a case and then it being sufficient to block sales, then it would have passed.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:37:54 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
If it were as simple as writing a case and then it being sufficient to block sales, then it would have passed.

Doubt it. It is harder to get reelected once gun control passes. You can't run on that again.

Part of the reason it to Democrats took so long to legalize gay marraige, it gives them one less thing they can pander about.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:42:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:37:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
If it were as simple as writing a case and then it being sufficient to block sales, then it would have passed.

Doubt it. It is harder to get reelected once gun control passes. You can't run on that again.

Part of the reason it to Democrats took so long to legalize gay marraige, it gives them one less thing they can pander about.

Polling shows a swing to ~60% support for expanded background checks after the attack. The public holds an even more favorable view of amendments to block terrorists from gun sales.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:45:05 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:42:19 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/21/2016 3:37:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
If it were as simple as writing a case and then it being sufficient to block sales, then it would have passed.

Doubt it. It is harder to get reelected once gun control passes. You can't run on that again.

Part of the reason it to Democrats took so long to legalize gay marraige, it gives them one less thing they can pander about.

Polling shows a swing to ~60% support for expanded background checks after the attack. The public holds an even more favorable view of amendments to block terrorists from gun sales.

The difference is Democrats wanted to block people at willy nilly and republicans asked for due process. Look at the last article I shared
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:53:46 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 3:43:17 PM, Wylted wrote:
Here is an article without bias that accurately describes the situationhttp://www.powerlineblog.com...

The blog post is profoundly biased.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:39:24 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:40:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 2:51:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:40:51 PM, ThinkBig wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Time to vote out the NRA from congress. Exactly why we need to overturn Citizens United.

It is actually the Republicans trying to pass the bills this time, while Democrats are trying to take advantage of the situation by making a gun grab. It looks like nothing will get passed, because Democrats are not willing to compromise as the Republicans have, and nust signing the bill they propose

So Democrats are bought by the NRA? Sigh. You are funny...
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:46:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:39:24 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally. The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide. And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis. We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:57:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:46:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:39:24 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally. The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide. And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis. We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

Let me just clear this up... Do you support people on the Terror watch list getting guns? Because you didn't respond to that notion which I stated in my paragraph. Also, it is pretty clear and well known that handguns comittt the mass majority of gun violence. But, semi-automatic weapons are used in mass shootings well over 50% of the time. It is also pretty clear that it is much easier to kill someone with an AR-15 than a pistol. I think Liberals and Conservatives alike can agree on that notion. Now, the Mass shooting statistics vs the Shooting statistics are pretty sketchy. But, what is clear is that the United States has the most guns in any developed country and the most deaths in any developed country. This is still true when you adjust for population. I would suggest watching two great gun-control videos that point out the facts...

https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 5:00:27 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:46:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:39:24 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally. The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide. And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis. We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

I would also look at this Youtube Video as well...
https://www.youtube.com...
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 5:10:17 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:57:47 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:46:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:39:24 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally. The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide. And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis. We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

Let me just clear this up... Do you support people on the Terror watch list getting guns? Because you didn't respond to that notion which I stated in my paragraph.

I don't support a terror watch list which can be arbitrarily managed by the executive branch, no. If the Supreme Court has ruled that something is a right, it should only be stripped with at least some semblance of due process.

Also, it is pretty clear and well known that handguns comittt the mass majority of gun violence. But, semi-automatic weapons are used in mass shootings well over 50% of the time.

So? 50% of less than 1% of gun homicides doesn't merit 95% of the attention.

It is also pretty clear that it is much easier to kill someone with an AR-15 than a pistol. I think Liberals and Conservatives alike can agree on that notion.

Lol, maybe if they're completely ignorant of guns, or basic common sense. A handgun is easily concealable, inexpensive, and efficient. That's why it's by far the predominant choice of murderers.

Now, the Mass shooting statistics vs the Shooting statistics are pretty sketchy.

No, they aren't. Deaths aren't exactly hard to tally up.

But, what is clear is that the United States has the most guns in any developed country and the most deaths in any developed country. This is still true when you adjust for population. I would suggest watching two great gun-control videos that point out the facts...

Correlation vs causation in one isolated example is a terrible argument. I was actually once so intrigued by this topic that I, by myself, researched all of the statistics, plotted them out, and found a line of best fit. Guess what? Very slight negative trend.

http://www.realclearscience.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

I only really watch propaganda to study it, and I've seen more than enough examples of gun control nonsense. One minute into the first one, there is already laughably incompetent statistical analysis.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 5:16:02 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:10:17 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:57:47 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:46:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:39:24 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:47:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally. The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide. And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis. We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

Let me just clear this up... Do you support people on the Terror watch list getting guns? Because you didn't respond to that notion which I stated in my paragraph.

I don't support a terror watch list which can be arbitrarily managed by the executive branch, no. If the Supreme Court has ruled that something is a right, it should only be stripped with at least some semblance of due process.

Also, it is pretty clear and well known that handguns comittt the mass majority of gun violence. But, semi-automatic weapons are used in mass shootings well over 50% of the time.

So? 50% of less than 1% of gun homicides doesn't merit 95% of the attention.

It is also pretty clear that it is much easier to kill someone with an AR-15 than a pistol. I think Liberals and Conservatives alike can agree on that notion.

Lol, maybe if they're completely ignorant of guns, or basic common sense. A handgun is easily concealable, inexpensive, and efficient. That's why it's by far the predominant choice of murderers.

Now, the Mass shooting statistics vs the Shooting statistics are pretty sketchy.

No, they aren't. Deaths aren't exactly hard to tally up.

But, what is clear is that the United States has the most guns in any developed country and the most deaths in any developed country. This is still true when you adjust for population. I would suggest watching two great gun-control videos that point out the facts...

Correlation vs causation in one isolated example is a terrible argument. I was actually once so intrigued by this topic that I, by myself, researched all of the statistics, plotted them out, and found a line of best fit. Guess what? Very slight negative trend.

http://www.realclearscience.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

I only really watch propaganda to study it, and I've seen more than enough examples of gun control nonsense. One minute into the first one, there is already laughably incompetent statistical analysis.

I understand. But, the simple profound truth is that Gun Control has worked in many other nations including the UK, Australia, France, Italy, Japan. The facts on this issue speak for it's self, the United States has more gun deaths than any other major nation on Earth and has the most guns out of any nation on Earth.

Also, I would like to see some factual evidence that shows the amount of Deaths in Mass Shootings vs Non-Mass Shootings.
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 6:05:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:40:39 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:51:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:40:51 PM, ThinkBig wrote:
At 6/21/2016 2:21:53 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Time to vote out the NRA from congress. Exactly why we need to overturn Citizens United.

It is actually the Republicans trying to pass the bills this time, while Democrats are trying to take advantage of the situation by making a gun grab. It looks like nothing will get passed, because Democrats are not willing to compromise as the Republicans have, and nust signing the bill they propose

So Democrats are bought by the NRA? Sigh. You are funny...

Reread what I wrote, I merely pointed out why it might be beneficial to block this from passing, and the history of Democrats blocking bills for pyrist reasons by pointing out how gay marraige legalization took 20 years longer than it had to
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 6:54:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally.

Where did you find that statistic?

The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide.

If I were to look at stats for gun homicide, since you introduced race, whom predominately is the shooter and the victim?

And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis.

Statistically, whom is the biggest threat regarding violence to blacks in the black community?

We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

Arguably, a law that makes some one safe makes it safe for all those the laws are subject too, but you do make a point. Should this Omar character have only killed... say... 2 people, do you think there would have been as much outcry? To me, it seems like the severity in numbers, not specifically whom was shot.

Now, on the topic of "white people", given the demographic of those slain in the nightclub shooting, do you consider Hispanic to be "white" for purposes of your example?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
spencercrat123
Posts: 3
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 6:59:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago

What is the 72 hour thing? Is that like just giving the FBI 72 hours to figure out the threat level of somebody before they can ban the gun buys?

If so, a 72 hour grace period to see if a threat is a prank phone call or serious, seems reasonable.

The amendment allowed the Attorney General 72 hours to make a case for people on the terror watch list for why they should be blocked from purchasing a gun. Loretta Lynch said a 72 hour period is impossible to work with - so anyone on that list will still be able to buy a gun.

That seems reasonable. Hell just put me in charge of that, the FBIbprividing all the evidence to me and everything? I could do 50 cases a day

The expiration of the 72 hour waiting period is what allowed Dylann Roof to purchase the guns he used in the Charleston Church shooting. In September of last year there were 1.76 million gun sales in the span of the month. That averages out to 58,667 purchases a day.
"50 cases a day" isn't going to cut it.

http://www.nationalreview.com...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 7:19:17 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 6:54:01 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Once again, lawmakers fail to pass comprehensive gun control measures. Meaning the fifteen hour filibuster did nothing.

www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11982428/senate-gun-control-reform-impossible

Discuss

Good. I hope that bill dies so sheltered white people can't pretend to be doing something about gun violence while accomplishing nothing.

The bill was only a "first step" to accomplishing real goals towards suitable gun control. The bill mainly contained that people on the Terror watch list can not legally purchase a gun it also included an expansion of background checks. Sadly, NRA funded Republicans rejected the bill. Claiming that some people on the Terror Watch list "Shouldn't even be on the list." This is profoundly wrong and a lame excuse to reject the bill.

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally.

Where did you find that statistic?

'About 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of
nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a
handgun from 1993 to 2011.'

'In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun
at the time of offense, fewer than 2% bought their firearm
at a flea market or gun show, about 10% purchased it from
a retail store or pawnshop, 37% obtained it from family or
friends, and another 40% obtained it from an illegal source.'
http://www.bjs.gov...

'By analyzing patterns in these data, researchers and law enforcement can identify potential traffickers and begin to understand how firearms move into illegal use. For example, researchers in Los Angeles and those with Boston's Operation Ceasefire both found that there is very little interstate trafficking in firearms that are used in crimes. Instead, most crime guns, especially those that move very quickly from legal sale into criminal use, were originally purchased legally in the local area.'
http://nij.gov...

The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide.

If I were to look at stats for gun homicide, since you introduced race, whom predominately is the shooter and the victim?

Black on black, often gang related.

And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis.

Statistically, whom is the biggest threat regarding violence to blacks in the black community?

Young black men.

We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

Arguably, a law that makes some one safe makes it safe for all those the laws are subject too, but you do make a point. Should this Omar character have only killed... say... 2 people, do you think there would have been as much outcry? To me, it seems like the severity in numbers, not specifically whom was shot.

Now, on the topic of "white people", given the demographic of those slain in the nightclub shooting, do you consider Hispanic to be "white" for purposes of your example?

I don't see how it's relevant, considering that I was basing my arguments off of non-mass shooter incidents.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 7:27:23 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:16:02 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 5:10:17 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:57:47 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:46:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's all meaningless nonsense meant to calm a hysterical public. The vast lion's share of gun violence is committed with handguns which were purchased legally and locally. The way to combat it is to increase traceability and the penalties for moving a gun into the black market. But because white liberals only care about gun violence when someone who looks like them is shot up in spectacular fashion, they focus exclusively on 'assault rifles', 'background checks', and 'mental health', which are all complete red herrings if you look at the actual statistics on gun homicide. And because white people have much more political power than black people, partly because black people neuter themselves through fierce, entirely unwarranted political loyalty, no one will address the violence that affects them on a daily basis. We'll only take action when the gated community's school gets shot up, and we'll only take action which will prevent the less than 1% of gun deaths caused by mass shootings. Then the good white liberals will pat themselves on the back about how much safer they have made white liber- *cough* I mean everyone.

Let me just clear this up... Do you support people on the Terror watch list getting guns? Because you didn't respond to that notion which I stated in my paragraph.

I don't support a terror watch list which can be arbitrarily managed by the executive branch, no. If the Supreme Court has ruled that something is a right, it should only be stripped with at least some semblance of due process.

Also, it is pretty clear and well known that handguns comittt the mass majority of gun violence. But, semi-automatic weapons are used in mass shootings well over 50% of the time.

So? 50% of less than 1% of gun homicides doesn't merit 95% of the attention.

It is also pretty clear that it is much easier to kill someone with an AR-15 than a pistol. I think Liberals and Conservatives alike can agree on that notion.

Lol, maybe if they're completely ignorant of guns, or basic common sense. A handgun is easily concealable, inexpensive, and efficient. That's why it's by far the predominant choice of murderers.

Now, the Mass shooting statistics vs the Shooting statistics are pretty sketchy.

No, they aren't. Deaths aren't exactly hard to tally up.

But, what is clear is that the United States has the most guns in any developed country and the most deaths in any developed country. This is still true when you adjust for population. I would suggest watching two great gun-control videos that point out the facts...

Correlation vs causation in one isolated example is a terrible argument. I was actually once so intrigued by this topic that I, by myself, researched all of the statistics, plotted them out, and found a line of best fit. Guess what? Very slight negative trend.

http://www.realclearscience.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

I only really watch propaganda to study it, and I've seen more than enough examples of gun control nonsense. One minute into the first one, there is already laughably incompetent statistical analysis.

I understand. But, the simple profound truth is that Gun Control has worked in many other nations including the UK, Australia, France, Italy, Japan. The facts on this issue speak for it's self, the United States has more gun deaths than any other major nation on Earth and has the most guns out of any nation on Earth.

I could have sworn that I just posted a graph showing how that is not the case when all data is taken into account... odd.

Also, I would like to see some factual evidence that shows the amount of Deaths in Mass Shootings vs Non-Mass Shootings.

I'll quote myself:
You're ignoring almost 70% of gun violence, focusing instead on a ridiculously small minority. I mean, mass shootings are an absurdly small subset: 547 people have been killed since 1983 in mass shootings. Compare that to 68,720 firearm related murders between 2007 and 2011. (http://www.ncdsv.org......)

42,000 people killed in four years (10,000/year) is a huge problem (conservative estimate of inner city deaths based on previous trends). 547 people killed over 30 years (1983-2013), or 18/year, is a trifle by comparison, yet you are DEMANDING that is be addressed with an insistence which is farcical in light of the numbers. A subset which is 0.1% of the problem deserves 0.1% of our attention. I cannot take seriously any proposal to give it more spotlight than it's already been given while 99.9% (LITERALLY 99.9% No hyperpole!) of gun violence goes unaddressed
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,241
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 7:30:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Authoritarian Dems want to ban and suspend due process...

Repubs want to focus on the perpetrators with due process...

Did I miss anything?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 8:39:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 6:59:11 PM, spencercrat123 wrote:

What is the 72 hour thing? Is that like just giving the FBI 72 hours to figure out the threat level of somebody before they can ban the gun buys?

If so, a 72 hour grace period to see if a threat is a prank phone call or serious, seems reasonable.

The amendment allowed the Attorney General 72 hours to make a case for people on the terror watch list for why they should be blocked from purchasing a gun. Loretta Lynch said a 72 hour period is impossible to work with - so anyone on that list will still be able to buy a gun.

That seems reasonable. Hell just put me in charge of that, the FBIbprividing all the evidence to me and everything? I could do 50 cases a day

The expiration of the 72 hour waiting period is what allowed Dylann Roof to purchase the guns he used in the Charleston Church shooting. In September of last year there were 1.76 million gun sales in the span of the month. That averages out to 58,667 purchases a day.
"50 cases a day" isn't going to cut it.

http://www.nationalreview.com...

Dylan Roof was not on any terrorist watch list. Neither are most of the 60k purchases every day. If we are adding 50 people a day to the terrorism watch list, then we are casting the net too wide to be effective at actually stopping or preventing terrorism.

Alwerebyoubsuggesting everyone who buys a gun should be added to the terrorist watch list?