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Should the U.S support Israel?

tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
jsmill
Posts: 24
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7/19/2016 6:59:47 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

I am of the opinion that the U.S. should support Israel... however, our current level of support is unnecessary and unjustified. I recently took a course in international relations and was exposed to a well written paper on this subject. here is a link if you are interested.

http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu...
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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7/19/2016 7:01:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:59:47 PM, jsmill wrote:
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

I am of the opinion that the U.S. should support Israel... however, our current level of support is unnecessary and unjustified. I recently took a course in international relations and was exposed to a well written paper on this subject. here is a link if you are interested.

http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu...

Thank you for the link.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,675
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7/19/2016 7:09:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

I figured this video is relevant: https://youtu.be...

Right after the soldier says "Israel is more than capable of..." he was cut off. (I'm assuming he meant to say Israel is more than capable of defending theirselves.)

To be more on topic none the less, we blindly give too much aid to Israel; we should cut off aid to Israel and pressure them to make peace with Palestine and recognize them as a sovereign state.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/19/2016 8:21:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:59:47 PM, jsmill wrote:
I am of the opinion that the U.S. should support Israel... however, our current level of support is unnecessary and unjustified.

This.
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someloser
Posts: 1,377
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7/19/2016 9:50:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Yes. That is, they should stop babying it.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

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BrendanD19
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7/19/2016 11:52:04 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

You know my stance on this
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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7/19/2016 11:56:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 11:52:04 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

You know my stance on this

Yea but I think we should support them to an extent, just not the current involvement. You are a bit too Pro-Palestine for my taste.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
xus00HAY
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7/20/2016 2:03:16 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Of course! If Israel wasn't there, what country would all those Jews move to? Think about it.
Beisht_Kione
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7/20/2016 4:18:45 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

From a cultural perspective, I feel that we should support Israel. Israel is the soul country in the region who have embraced Western values. The rest of the region's values run contrary to the classically liberal values that are the corner stone of the West.
And yes, I am a cultural supremacist.
someloser
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7/20/2016 4:35:53 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/20/2016 2:03:16 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Of course! If Israel wasn't there, what country would all those Jews move to? Think about it.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
imabench
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7/20/2016 4:38:40 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Israel spies on the US more than any of our other allies, and by a terrifyingly wide margin.... Only China rivals Israel in terms of spying on the US, thats how much they spy on us. While Israel has helped the US push its influence throughout the middle east and has greatly helped us in combating terrorism, the big reason terrorists hate us in the first place is because of our undying support of Israel, whose creation in their own backyard we supported and enforced.

Israel has been good to us, but there are plenty of good reasons why we should at the very least reduce the level of support we provide to them. It would do wonders for us in terms of patching relations with the middle east

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jsmill
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7/20/2016 5:07:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 7:01:30 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 7/19/2016 6:59:47 PM, jsmill wrote:
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

I am of the opinion that the U.S. should support Israel... however, our current level of support is unnecessary and unjustified. I recently took a course in international relations and was exposed to a well written paper on this subject. here is a link if you are interested.

http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu...

Thank you for the link.

Sure, here is the summary I wrote for that article.

One of the most talked about regions of the world in the realm of foreign policy is, of course, the Middle East. Always on the brink of war and full of uncertainty there is at least one constant that the world can be certain -- the United States of America will support Israel in every way they can. From $3 billion in assistance each year, to protecting Israel"s interest in the United Nations, the United States is backing Israel. John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt argue that this support for Israel comes in large not from "shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives"" but from, as their article is titled, "The Israel Lobby." (Mearsheimer)The Israel Lobby includes but is not limited to the organization American-Israel Public Affairs committee (AIPAC) and other similar organizations. In their article, Mearsheimer and Walt use several examples as to why they have reached this conclusion.

As previously mentioned, the United States gives a large sum of money in assistance each year to Israel. The authors make a good indication of how much aid really is given when they conclude that $3 billion a year in aid given to Israel is "worth about $500 a year for every Israeli." The point is also made that Israel is the only nation that receives its aid all at one time, as compared to all other recipients that receive aid in quarterly installments. Since 1982, the United States, as a member of the security council in the United Nations, "has vetoed 32 Security Council Resolutions critical of Israel, more than the total number of vetoes cast by all other security Council members." The point that the United States in clearly supporting Israel is obviously true.

The article reads "This extraordinary generosity might be understandable if Israel were a vital strategic asset"" The authors go on to argue that in some cases not only is Israel not a strategic asset but sometimes a strategic "burden." Examples include the first Gulf War, as well as the attacks on Iraq in 2003. The United States could not ask for military support from Israel "without triggering Arab opposition." Contrary to this opinion, it can easily be argued that it is every bit as strategic, if not more so, to be able to influence Israel to stay out of these conflicts then to include Israel in them.

;Mearsheimer and Walt expressed that Israel is often portrayed as David facing Goliath and conclude that "the converse is closer to the truth." Israel"s military might is the strongest in the region and is the only nation state in the region that has nuclear weapons. The authors quote a 2005 assessment by Tel Aviv University"s Jaffee Centre for Strategic Studies which concludes "the strategic balance decidedly favors Israel" if backing the underdog were a compelling motive, the United States would be supporting Israel"s opponents." With Israel defined as the strongest state in the Middle East, it seems that it would be strategic to have a good amount of influence contrary to the authors conclusions.

The next issue the authors address is whether supporting Israel, the way that the United States does, is moral. Of the information they share in the article, one of the most striking is that to every Israeli lost, three and one half Palestinians are lost. They also share examples of Israeli aggression in wars. The issue of morality in foreign policy is a complex one. The states and individuals of the world do not agree on what morality entails. While the authors conclude that the United States support of Israel cannot be justified by morals, the same could be argued about any foreign policy.

If the United States support of Israel cannot be linked to morality or strategy, as the authors suggest, then why the support? "The explanation is the unmatched power of the Israel Lobby," as stated by the article. Mearsheimer and Walt refer to a 1997 Fortune Magazine, which put the question to members of Congress of which Lobbies are the most powerful. "AIPAC was ranked second"" This Lobby implements two strategies. First, "it wields its significant influence in Washington, pressuring both congress and the Executive Branch" the Lobby tries to make supporting Israel the "smart" choice." The Lobby, as well as all other Lobbies, influence Government through money. The authors share that Jewish voters consist of less than three percent of the population. That being said, they donate as much as sixty percent of the money donated to the Democratic Presidential candidates. The second strategy targets the public by portraying Israel in positive ways. An example given in the article where the pro-Israel committee for accurate Middle East reporting in America (CAMERA) "organized demonstrations outside NPR Stations in thirty-three cities; it also tried to persuade contributors to withhold support from NPR until it"s Middle East coverage becomes more sympathetic to Israel." The authors also point out that the Lobby uses its money and influence to "stifle debate on University campuses."

These claims seem reasonable being that both Republicans and Democrats unwaveringly support Israel, as well as how rare it is to find an article or news story critical of Israel. The authors argue that weakening the Lobbies influence over the public opinion to allow open debates on Israel is the solution.

The influence of the Israel Lobby is clearly a reasonable explanation for the United States support of Israel. Although, to conclude as the authors have, that supporting Israel is somehow less strategic is hard to prove. That being said, the authors make a strong argument about the Israel Lobby. They clearly show that the United States policies are being shaped based on Israeli interests instead of American interests.

Works Cited

Mearsheimer, W. (n.d.). The Israel Lobby.
Death23
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7/20/2016 5:54:05 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

Nah. We don't get much out of it. We gave them 130 billion dollars since 1949 ( http://www.wrmea.org... ) What we got to show for it? Squadoosh
tajshar2k
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7/20/2016 2:18:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/20/2016 2:03:16 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Of course! If Israel wasn't there, what country would all those Jews move to? Think about it.

The British brought the Jews to Israel as part of a resettlement plan. If Britain wanted, they could have put them in another place, where they aren't surrounded by people who want them dead.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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7/20/2016 9:54:10 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Relevant:

a paper entitled "Preparing For A Post Israel Middle East", an 82-page analysis that concludes that the American national interest in fundamentally at odds with that of Zionist Israel. The authors conclude that Israel is currently the greatest threat to US national interests because its nature and actions prevent normal US relations with Arab and Muslim countries and, to a growing degree, the wider international community....

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
NewLifeChristian
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7/21/2016 9:29:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.
Absolutely. Israel is America's greatest ally. In fact, by not supporting them we are denying help from the single most powerful nation in the Middle East. And everyone knows we need help in the Middle East right now more than ever.
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RookieApologist
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7/21/2016 10:31:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 9:29:11 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.
Absolutely. Israel is America's greatest ally. In fact, by not supporting them we are denying help from the single most powerful nation in the Middle East. And everyone knows we need help in the Middle East right now more than ever.

This.

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lotsoffun
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7/22/2016 2:17:55 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be a very strong Pro Israel supporter, but I have been lately thinking whether we should support them.

Should we support Israel?

Note, this isn't only pertained to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, just supporting them in general.

Better them than saudia Arabia. I support Israel's right to exist, and exist peacefully. someone said recently. "If the Palestinians put down their guns, the conflict would end, If the Israelis put down their guns, every Israeli would be dead" . how true.
Otto_Hasenkamp
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7/24/2016 6:44:56 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 6:43:25 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Should we support Israel?

No.
My knowledge on the theme is pretty limited, but from what I could look up, since the creation of Israel, the jews have done nothing but increase their influence, land and wealth at all costs, including innocent lives in 4 different aggressive invasions over the last 40 years, they are right now occupying 3 different regions which appropiation is deemed illegal (The Gaza strip, West Bank and Golan Heights), and have claimed the lives of over 17.000 innocent palestinian and lebanese civillians.
They will not stop unless the US stops financing Israel.
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