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Cruz, You're Fired

PetersSmith
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7/21/2016 6:19:43 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Senator Ted Cruz, the runner-up in the race for the Republican Party nomination is booed off stage after giving a speech and refusing to endorse Donald Trump. "Cruz"s remarks were a striking rebuke of the nominee and can only be viewed as a major embarrassment for Trump. And it will be the biggest story of this night of the convention. It"s hard to believe that Trump"s team and the RNC agreed to let Cruz speak without the promise of an endorsement in hand. But that seems to be what ended up happening. No, Cruz didn"t outright criticize the man he once called "utterly amoral," "a pathological liar," and "a narcissist at a level I don"t think this country has ever seen." Still, he must have known he"d likely be booed in front of a pro-Trump crowd. And he was willing to take this stance regardless." (http://www.vox.com...).

Was this the right move for Mr. Cruz? Should he or should he not have endorsed Trump? Was the crowd right to boo him? Should he have even been there? Will this effect Trump's vote at all? Will Trump finally say, "You're Fired" to Cruz? Discuss.
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Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 11:58:21 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 6:19:43 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
Senator Ted Cruz, the runner-up in the race for the Republican Party nomination is booed off stage after giving a speech and refusing to endorse Donald Trump. "Cruz"s remarks were a striking rebuke of the nominee and can only be viewed as a major embarrassment for Trump. And it will be the biggest story of this night of the convention. It"s hard to believe that Trump"s team and the RNC agreed to let Cruz speak without the promise of an endorsement in hand. But that seems to be what ended up happening. No, Cruz didn"t outright criticize the man he once called "utterly amoral," "a pathological liar," and "a narcissist at a level I don"t think this country has ever seen." Still, he must have known he"d likely be booed in front of a pro-Trump crowd. And he was willing to take this stance regardless." (http://www.vox.com...).

Was this the right move for Mr. Cruz? Should he or should he not have endorsed Trump? Was the crowd right to boo him? Should he have even been there? Will this effect Trump's vote at all? Will Trump finally say, "You're Fired" to Cruz? Discuss.

Of course they would, Tribalism is alive and well! ENDORSE Trump or get out, Sounds like VOTE Hilary or get out.

Good for Cruz, he didn't kowtow like Bernie.
brontoraptor
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7/21/2016 12:33:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
He may be fired, but he got cheers at the end of his speech. Wait...those aren't cheers....

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
vortex86
Posts: 559
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7/21/2016 1:42:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I'd say it made him look weak. I don't have a problem with people sticking to their guns, but if you make a promise (which all the candidates did) to suddenly back down just makes you look immoral. And to build up the crowd only to "pull a fast one" was clearly out of spite. It doesn't show him sticking to his morals but more so acting juvenile. I'd say he just became irrelevant.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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7/21/2016 1:55:49 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Lol the speech was hysterical.

Maybe I should be mad as a huge Trump supporter but I'm really not. You could fee the drama as the convention floor became slowly disillusioned and finally rebelled by booing (which they were apparently instructed to do by Trumps campaign manager). and the looks on the Trump families faces.

The drama was just too perfect. I can't even be mad. This is just so incredibly entertaining
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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7/21/2016 1:59:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Trump did vow to bring some "show biz" to the convention and boy was he right

Such a hilarious and well planned act of sabotage, I literally can't bring myself to be mad. When I heard Cruz's speech and the ensuing boos I started laughing hysterically
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"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 2:16:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 1:42:37 PM, vortex86 wrote:
I'd say it made him look weak. I don't have a problem with people sticking to their guns, but if you make a promise (which all the candidates did) to suddenly back down just makes you look immoral. And to build up the crowd only to "pull a fast one" was clearly out of spite. It doesn't show him sticking to his morals but more so acting juvenile. I'd say he just became irrelevant.

I compare it to Bernie supporting Clinton. This is the approach Bernie should have taken.

Principle over party always.
vortex86
Posts: 559
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7/21/2016 2:25:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 2:16:12 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 7/21/2016 1:42:37 PM, vortex86 wrote:
I'd say it made him look weak. I don't have a problem with people sticking to their guns, but if you make a promise (which all the candidates did) to suddenly back down just makes you look immoral. And to build up the crowd only to "pull a fast one" was clearly out of spite. It doesn't show him sticking to his morals but more so acting juvenile. I'd say he just became irrelevant.

I compare it to Bernie supporting Clinton. This is the approach Bernie should have taken.

Principle over party always.

Like I said, I don't have a problem keeping to your principles. Building up a crescendo to act like he was going to offer an endorsement at the end, only to end the way he did. He knew exactly what he was doing and it wasn't principles that was guiding that. He acted immaturely and out of spite. It was a weak display of him seeking revenge for feeling wronged.
000ike
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7/21/2016 2:30:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 6:19:43 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
Senator Ted Cruz, the runner-up in the race for the Republican Party nomination is booed off stage after giving a speech and refusing to endorse Donald Trump. "Cruz"s remarks were a striking rebuke of the nominee and can only be viewed as a major embarrassment for Trump. And it will be the biggest story of this night of the convention. It"s hard to believe that Trump"s team and the RNC agreed to let Cruz speak without the promise of an endorsement in hand. But that seems to be what ended up happening. No, Cruz didn"t outright criticize the man he once called "utterly amoral," "a pathological liar," and "a narcissist at a level I don"t think this country has ever seen." Still, he must have known he"d likely be booed in front of a pro-Trump crowd. And he was willing to take this stance regardless." (http://www.vox.com...).

Was this the right move for Mr. Cruz? Should he or should he not have endorsed Trump? Was the crowd right to boo him? Should he have even been there? Will this effect Trump's vote at all? Will Trump finally say, "You're Fired" to Cruz? Discuss.

I haven't been watching the RNC (mostly disinterested).... but wasn't yesterday supposed to be the VP speech? lol no one seems to be talking about it
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Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 2:31:41 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 2:25:44 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 2:16:12 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 7/21/2016 1:42:37 PM, vortex86 wrote:
I'd say it made him look weak. I don't have a problem with people sticking to their guns, but if you make a promise (which all the candidates did) to suddenly back down just makes you look immoral. And to build up the crowd only to "pull a fast one" was clearly out of spite. It doesn't show him sticking to his morals but more so acting juvenile. I'd say he just became irrelevant.

I compare it to Bernie supporting Clinton. This is the approach Bernie should have taken.

Principle over party always.

Like I said, I don't have a problem keeping to your principles. Building up a crescendo to act like he was going to offer an endorsement at the end, only to end the way he did. He knew exactly what he was doing and it wasn't principles that was guiding that. He acted immaturely and out of spite. It was a weak display of him seeking revenge for feeling wronged.

And maybe I missed it as I have become more and more annoyed with the election news cycle, thus stopped really paying attention.

I never got the impression that Cruz was going to endorse Trump.
Greyparrot
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7/21/2016 2:44:32 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Cruz, in his mind, just double downed on a Trump loss.

Problem is, with this stunt, he will be going into the 2020 with much more divided support than Trump ever had. Cruz is a royal idiot. He's done.
Greyparrot
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7/21/2016 2:47:08 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
It's one thing to mock one state at a debate. Mocking all the states and preaching "true values" is beyond political suicide. You gotta wonder if Trump didn't set this up by not requiring Ted to endorse him?
1Percenter
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7/21/2016 3:03:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Cruz had one job in speaking at the convention - to support the party's nominee as he pledged to do in the first GOP debate last year. Never mind the fact that he could have revoked his pledge months ago when he withdrew from the race - instead he uses the convention platform offered to him to posture and lecture us on how we should be voting. He has no honor. And don't tell me he's principled because you can keep principles without making a fool of yourself and your supporters.

A year ago, when I heard stories of how personally disliked he is by his fellow members in Congress, I assumed it was due to his stubborn commitment to True Conservatism. But after last night, I understand much better. He's a self-righteous snake that acts like he's God's gift to politics.
Vox_Veritas
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7/21/2016 3:59:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 12:33:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
He may be fired, but he got cheers at the end of his speech. Wait...those aren't cheers....

http://youtu.be...

I hardly heard any booing in that video.
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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7/21/2016 4:09:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 1:59:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
Trump did vow to bring some "show biz" to the convention and boy was he right

Such a hilarious and well planned act of sabotage, I literally can't bring myself to be mad. When I heard Cruz's speech and the ensuing boos I started laughing hysterically

I think when he said "show biz" he meant b-actors who haven't been on camera in 20+ years.
Greyparrot
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7/21/2016 4:12:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:09:45 PM, TBR wrote:
At 7/21/2016 1:59:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
Trump did vow to bring some "show biz" to the convention and boy was he right

Such a hilarious and well planned act of sabotage, I literally can't bring myself to be mad. When I heard Cruz's speech and the ensuing boos I started laughing hysterically

I think when he said "show biz" he meant b-actors who haven't been on camera in 20+ years.

Oh cmon, that Cruz boofest was highly entertaining.
Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 4:27:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 3:03:18 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
Cruz had one job in speaking at the convention - to support the party's nominee as he pledged to do in the first GOP debate last year. Never mind the fact that he could have revoked his pledge months ago when he withdrew from the race - instead he uses the convention platform offered to him to posture and lecture us on how we should be voting. He has no honor. And don't tell me he's principled because you can keep principles without making a fool of yourself and your supporters.

A year ago, when I heard stories of how personally disliked he is by his fellow members in Congress, I assumed it was due to his stubborn commitment to True Conservatism. But after last night, I understand much better. He's a self-righteous snake that acts like he's God's gift to politics.

We need more people like Cruz. The party has spoken, therefore you must follow. Nah, I dissent in this case. I don't want congressmen or senators to be buddy buddy. They are there to duke it out on our behalf. I would personally love it if they never came to a consensus. You can count on one hand the number of policies that have actually benefitted the American people. Everything else is either rolling back or increasing current policy because they didn't work.

The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.

Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.
1Percenter
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7/21/2016 6:08:22 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:27:44 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:03:18 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
Cruz had one job in speaking at the convention - to support the party's nominee as he pledged to do in the first GOP debate last year. Never mind the fact that he could have revoked his pledge months ago when he withdrew from the race - instead he uses the convention platform offered to him to posture and lecture us on how we should be voting. He has no honor. And don't tell me he's principled because you can keep principles without making a fool of yourself and your supporters.

A year ago, when I heard stories of how personally disliked he is by his fellow members in Congress, I assumed it was due to his stubborn commitment to True Conservatism. But after last night, I understand much better. He's a self-righteous snake that acts like he's God's gift to politics.

We need more people like Cruz. The party has spoken, therefore you must follow. Nah, I dissent in this case. I don't want congressmen or senators to be buddy buddy. They are there to duke it out on our behalf. I would personally love it if they never came to a consensus. You can count on one hand the number of policies that have actually benefitted the American people. Everything else is either rolling back or increasing current policy because they didn't work.

The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.


No, they wouldn't.
Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.

What exactly is the point of a political party if supporting said party's nominee is optional? If Cruz had any honor whatsoever, he'd have simply left the GOP as it is abundantly clear he has no interest in supporting the party if it doesn't happen to currently work to his benefit. It's like shooting craps in a casino, where you expect to collecting your winnings if you happen to win, then putting your wager back in your wallet if you lose. Sorry, that's not how it works.

If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.
Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 6:25:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 6:08:22 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 7/21/2016 4:27:44 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 7/21/2016 3:03:18 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
Cruz had one job in speaking at the convention - to support the party's nominee as he pledged to do in the first GOP debate last year. Never mind the fact that he could have revoked his pledge months ago when he withdrew from the race - instead he uses the convention platform offered to him to posture and lecture us on how we should be voting. He has no honor. And don't tell me he's principled because you can keep principles without making a fool of yourself and your supporters.

A year ago, when I heard stories of how personally disliked he is by his fellow members in Congress, I assumed it was due to his stubborn commitment to True Conservatism. But after last night, I understand much better. He's a self-righteous snake that acts like he's God's gift to politics.

We need more people like Cruz. The party has spoken, therefore you must follow. Nah, I dissent in this case. I don't want congressmen or senators to be buddy buddy. They are there to duke it out on our behalf. I would personally love it if they never came to a consensus. You can count on one hand the number of policies that have actually benefitted the American people. Everything else is either rolling back or increasing current policy because they didn't work.

The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.


No, they wouldn't.
I have no idea what this is responding too.

Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.

What exactly is the point of a political party if supporting said party's nominee is optional? If Cruz had any honor whatsoever, he'd have simply left the GOP as it is abundantly clear he has no interest in supporting the party if it doesn't happen to currently work to his benefit. It's like shooting craps in a casino, where you expect to collecting your winnings if you happen to win, then putting your wager back in your wallet if you lose. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Because we live a free society where I can disagree with the party I associate with. What good is political party that no longer adheres to its principles?

The political party wasn't founded around a person, it was founded around principles. We have thrown all of that away. Trump is a flaming bag of garbage, who is struggling in polls against a bigger flaming bag of garbage.


If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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7/21/2016 6:29:02 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
The whole time Cruz was speaking I was thinking I wish Trump could speak this well and not actually look like he's reading a teleprompter. Cruz hit every nail on the head in terms of what conservative principles are all about, something Trump never does.

Cruz' speech was great up to the lack of endorsement part. He should have just stopped after he told people not to stay home in November. It was a bit weird that he was there to speak without giving an endorsement, but good for him for sticking to his principles.

As far as it hurting or helping him for a 2020 run, I think it really depends on what happens with the presidency from 2016-2020. If Trump wins, and he's somewhat successful, then it won't matter one bit because Cruz will likely not run. If Hillary wins and destroys the country further, then Cruz could end up doing very well in 2020 by basically playing the "i told you so" card. If Hillary wins and somehow does well while President (I find this the most unlikely scenario of course), then Cruz would still likely run but would likely lose regardless of this speech.
slo1
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7/21/2016 7:13:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 4:09:45 PM, TBR wrote:
At 7/21/2016 1:59:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
Trump did vow to bring some "show biz" to the convention and boy was he right

Such a hilarious and well planned act of sabotage, I literally can't bring myself to be mad. When I heard Cruz's speech and the ensuing boos I started laughing hysterically

I think when he said "show biz" he meant b-actors who haven't been on camera in 20+ years.

Chachi in Charge
1Percenter
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7/21/2016 7:23:05 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 6:25:58 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.


No, they wouldn't.
I have no idea what this is responding too.


See bolded.
Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.

What exactly is the point of a political party if supporting said party's nominee is optional? If Cruz had any honor whatsoever, he'd have simply left the GOP as it is abundantly clear he has no interest in supporting the party if it doesn't happen to currently work to his benefit. It's like shooting craps in a casino, where you expect to collecting your winnings if you happen to win, then putting your wager back in your wallet if you lose. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Because we live a free society where I can disagree with the party I associate with. What good is political party that no longer adheres to its principles?

Obviously you are free to disagree, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. If the party no longer adheres to your principles, then leave. The primary objective of a political party isn't to advance an ideology, but to get its members elected.

The political party wasn't founded around a person, it was founded around principles. We have thrown all of that away. Trump is a flaming bag of garbage, who is struggling in polls against a bigger flaming bag of garbage.


Oh. Right. I forgot that no political party has ever changed its position on any issue, ever. /s

Principles change. The Republican party was originally founded as the anti-slavery party. Obviously that issue isn't part of its platform any more, because slavery is abolished and everyone opposes it now. By your logic, they threw their principles centuries ago.

If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?

Closing the ranks. That is the deal. There is no point in having a party, no point in counting votes, otherwise.
Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 8:34:56 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 7:23:05 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 7/21/2016 6:25:58 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.


No, they wouldn't.
I have no idea what this is responding too.


See bolded.

ahhhh, fair enough. Guess we will never know. Donald's number are stagnant when they should be rising, especially with the news cycle Clinton is having.

Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.

What exactly is the point of a political party if supporting said party's nominee is optional? If Cruz had any honor whatsoever, he'd have simply left the GOP as it is abundantly clear he has no interest in supporting the party if it doesn't happen to currently work to his benefit. It's like shooting craps in a casino, where you expect to collecting your winnings if you happen to win, then putting your wager back in your wallet if you lose. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Because we live a free society where I can disagree with the party I associate with. What good is political party that no longer adheres to its principles?

Obviously you are free to disagree, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. If the party no longer adheres to your principles, then leave. The primary objective of a political party isn't to advance an ideology, but to get its members elected.

So we are Democrats now, who look to government for solutions. Got it.

The political party wasn't founded around a person, it was founded around principles. We have thrown all of that away. Trump is a flaming bag of garbage, who is struggling in polls against a bigger flaming bag of garbage.


Oh. Right. I forgot that no political party has ever changed its position on any issue, ever. /s

Principles change. The Republican party was originally founded as the anti-slavery party. Obviously that issue isn't part of its platform any more, because slavery is abolished and everyone opposes it now. By your logic, they threw their principles centuries ago.

Principles are the foundations, they don't change. Principles guide positions. Slavery is bad is not a principle it is a position. The principle was every man is created equal.

If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?

Closing the ranks. That is the deal. There is no point in having a party, no point in counting votes, otherwise.

Got it. Foregoing principles based on mob rule, sounds good.
vortex86
Posts: 559
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7/21/2016 8:59:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 8:34:56 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 7/21/2016 7:23:05 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 7/21/2016 6:25:58 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.


No, they wouldn't.
I have no idea what this is responding too.


See bolded.

ahhhh, fair enough. Guess we will never know. Donald's number are stagnant when they should be rising, especially with the news cycle Clinton is having.

Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.

What exactly is the point of a political party if supporting said party's nominee is optional? If Cruz had any honor whatsoever, he'd have simply left the GOP as it is abundantly clear he has no interest in supporting the party if it doesn't happen to currently work to his benefit. It's like shooting craps in a casino, where you expect to collecting your winnings if you happen to win, then putting your wager back in your wallet if you lose. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Because we live a free society where I can disagree with the party I associate with. What good is political party that no longer adheres to its principles?

Obviously you are free to disagree, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. If the party no longer adheres to your principles, then leave. The primary objective of a political party isn't to advance an ideology, but to get its members elected.

So we are Democrats now, who look to government for solutions. Got it.

The political party wasn't founded around a person, it was founded around principles. We have thrown all of that away. Trump is a flaming bag of garbage, who is struggling in polls against a bigger flaming bag of garbage.


Oh. Right. I forgot that no political party has ever changed its position on any issue, ever. /s

Principles change. The Republican party was originally founded as the anti-slavery party. Obviously that issue isn't part of its platform any more, because slavery is abolished and everyone opposes it now. By your logic, they threw their principles centuries ago.

Principles are the foundations, they don't change. Principles guide positions. Slavery is bad is not a principle it is a position. The principle was every man is created equal.

If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?

Closing the ranks. That is the deal. There is no point in having a party, no point in counting votes, otherwise.

Got it. Foregoing principles based on mob rule, sounds good.

Yeah, Cruz didn't represent principles as mentioned previously. He had a childish spat in which he was seeking vengeance for what he felt wronged. You said you didn't notice him building up the crowd in his speech, if you're going to continue to say he's principled I'd suggest you do so then.

He was debate captain and definitely knows how to phrase his statements and what he is doing with them. It's quite obvious what he did for anyone that is willing to look at it objectively.

Cruz is not standing up for principles. He already explained his lack of endorsement for Trump. He felt wronged by the statements Trump made about his wife/father. That doesn't sound like it has anything to do with his Conservative principles that you are touting. That sounds like a personal vendetta. To each their own.
Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 9:23:41 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 8:59:18 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:34:56 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 7/21/2016 7:23:05 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 7/21/2016 6:25:58 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
The only reason Trump has the possibility of winning is because Hillary is an absolute Sh1t show. Any other nominee would be soaring above Hillary right now.


No, they wouldn't.
I have no idea what this is responding too.


See bolded.

ahhhh, fair enough. Guess we will never know. Donald's number are stagnant when they should be rising, especially with the news cycle Clinton is having.

Cruz has his flaws, but respect where it is due.

What exactly is the point of a political party if supporting said party's nominee is optional? If Cruz had any honor whatsoever, he'd have simply left the GOP as it is abundantly clear he has no interest in supporting the party if it doesn't happen to currently work to his benefit. It's like shooting craps in a casino, where you expect to collecting your winnings if you happen to win, then putting your wager back in your wallet if you lose. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Because we live a free society where I can disagree with the party I associate with. What good is political party that no longer adheres to its principles?

Obviously you are free to disagree, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. If the party no longer adheres to your principles, then leave. The primary objective of a political party isn't to advance an ideology, but to get its members elected.

So we are Democrats now, who look to government for solutions. Got it.

The political party wasn't founded around a person, it was founded around principles. We have thrown all of that away. Trump is a flaming bag of garbage, who is struggling in polls against a bigger flaming bag of garbage.


Oh. Right. I forgot that no political party has ever changed its position on any issue, ever. /s

Principles change. The Republican party was originally founded as the anti-slavery party. Obviously that issue isn't part of its platform any more, because slavery is abolished and everyone opposes it now. By your logic, they threw their principles centuries ago.

Principles are the foundations, they don't change. Principles guide positions. Slavery is bad is not a principle it is a position. The principle was every man is created equal.

If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?

Closing the ranks. That is the deal. There is no point in having a party, no point in counting votes, otherwise.

Got it. Foregoing principles based on mob rule, sounds good.

Yeah, Cruz didn't represent principles as mentioned previously. He had a childish spat in which he was seeking vengeance for what he felt wronged. You said you didn't notice him building up the crowd in his speech, if you're going to continue to say he's principled I'd suggest you do so then.

What principle says you have to support the nominee? I missed that one.

The transcript for Cruz's speech given to the RNC, Trump, and MSM. None of this is a surprise.

He was debate captain and definitely knows how to phrase his statements and what he is doing with them. It's quite obvious what he did for anyone that is willing to look at it objectively.

It is pretty obvious that Trump is a sh1t show of a candidate if you are willing to look at it objectively.

Cruz is not standing up for principles. He already explained his lack of endorsement for Trump. He felt wronged by the statements Trump made about his wife/father. That doesn't sound like it has anything to do with his Conservative principles that you are touting. That sounds like a personal vendetta. To each their own.

Conservatives stand for family, sounds like a conservative principle to me.
Sorry he didn't kowtow to the Orange God King, by explicitly saying I endorse Trump.
1Percenter
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7/21/2016 9:25:31 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 8:34:56 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
Principles are the foundations, they don't change. Principles guide positions. Slavery is bad is not a principle it is a position. The principle was every man is created equal.


LMAO That's not a principle either -- that's just a vague assertion. And even if that were a valid party principle, that wouldn't give Cruz any reason not to endorse the party's nominee. The party contains ideologies, which often conflict, but the ideologies themselves are not the party, which you seem to believe is the case. Cruz even admitted the reason he didn't keep his promise is because of a personal grudge.
If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?

Closing the ranks. That is the deal. There is no point in having a party, no point in counting votes, otherwise.

Got it. Foregoing principles based on mob rule, sounds good.

Here we go with the "MUH PRINCIPLES" again. True Conservatives" love talking about their "principles" but never actually tell us what they are, or how they've advanced them, or why they matter. Its just another form of virtue signalling.
NewLifeChristian
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7/21/2016 9:32:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 6:19:43 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
Senator Ted Cruz, the runner-up in the race for the Republican Party nomination is booed off stage after giving a speech and refusing to endorse Donald Trump. "Cruz"s remarks were a striking rebuke of the nominee and can only be viewed as a major embarrassment for Trump. And it will be the biggest story of this night of the convention. It"s hard to believe that Trump"s team and the RNC agreed to let Cruz speak without the promise of an endorsement in hand. But that seems to be what ended up happening. No, Cruz didn"t outright criticize the man he once called "utterly amoral," "a pathological liar," and "a narcissist at a level I don"t think this country has ever seen." Still, he must have known he"d likely be booed in front of a pro-Trump crowd. And he was willing to take this stance regardless." (http://www.vox.com...).

Was this the right move for Mr. Cruz? Should he or should he not have endorsed Trump? Was the crowd right to boo him? Should he have even been there? Will this effect Trump's vote at all? Will Trump finally say, "You're Fired" to Cruz? Discuss.
Let me ask you a question. Would you endorse someone who insulted your father and spouse?
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Robkwoods
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7/21/2016 9:49:08 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 9:25:31 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
At 7/21/2016 8:34:56 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
Principles are the foundations, they don't change. Principles guide positions. Slavery is bad is not a principle it is a position. The principle was every man is created equal.


LMAO That's not a principle either -- that's just a vague assertion. And even if that were a valid party principle, that wouldn't give Cruz any reason not to endorse the party's nominee. The party contains ideologies, which often conflict, but the ideologies themselves are not the party, which you seem to believe is the case. Cruz even admitted the reason he didn't keep his promise is because of a personal grudge.

Really? vague assertion, interesting. So you admit what you said before is not a principle.
Exactly principle over or party.
He gave a pretty good reason for not keeping his pledge.

If Cruz wasn't willing to to follow the rules, then he shouldn't have played the game. And that's why Cruz is a slimey snake.

What rules?

Closing the ranks. That is the deal. There is no point in having a party, no point in counting votes, otherwise.

Got it. Foregoing principles based on mob rule, sounds good.

Here we go with the "MUH PRINCIPLES" again. True Conservatives" love talking about their "principles" but never actually tell us what they are, or how they've advanced them, or why they matter. Its just another form of virtue signalling.

So what gets you through life? How do you discern right from wrong?
Virtue Signaling? I have support the party because...reasons, according to you.
Individual freedom is hard to advance to people who don't want it. Don't worry Trump will take care of you.
imabench
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7/21/2016 9:54:02 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 6:19:43 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
Senator Ted Cruz, the runner-up in the race for the Republican Party nomination is booed off stage after giving a speech and refusing to endorse Donald Trump. "Cruz"s remarks were a striking rebuke of the nominee and can only be viewed as a major embarrassment for Trump. And it will be the biggest story of this night of the convention. It"s hard to believe that Trump"s team and the RNC agreed to let Cruz speak without the promise of an endorsement in hand. But that seems to be what ended up happening. No, Cruz didn"t outright criticize the man he once called "utterly amoral," "a pathological liar," and "a narcissist at a level I don"t think this country has ever seen." Still, he must have known he"d likely be booed in front of a pro-Trump crowd. And he was willing to take this stance regardless." (http://www.vox.com...).

Was this the right move for Mr. Cruz? Should he or should he not have endorsed Trump? Was the crowd right to boo him? Should he have even been there? Will this effect Trump's vote at all? Will Trump finally say, "You're Fired" to Cruz? Discuss.

He was setting himself up for Cruz 2020 since all of his action ever are only in his own self-interest.
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RookieApologist
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7/21/2016 10:33:19 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/21/2016 9:54:02 PM, imabench wrote:
At 7/21/2016 6:19:43 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
Senator Ted Cruz, the runner-up in the race for the Republican Party nomination is booed off stage after giving a speech and refusing to endorse Donald Trump. "Cruz"s remarks were a striking rebuke of the nominee and can only be viewed as a major embarrassment for Trump. And it will be the biggest story of this night of the convention. It"s hard to believe that Trump"s team and the RNC agreed to let Cruz speak without the promise of an endorsement in hand. But that seems to be what ended up happening. No, Cruz didn"t outright criticize the man he once called "utterly amoral," "a pathological liar," and "a narcissist at a level I don"t think this country has ever seen." Still, he must have known he"d likely be booed in front of a pro-Trump crowd. And he was willing to take this stance regardless." (http://www.vox.com...).

Was this the right move for Mr. Cruz? Should he or should he not have endorsed Trump? Was the crowd right to boo him? Should he have even been there? Will this effect Trump's vote at all? Will Trump finally say, "You're Fired" to Cruz? Discuss.

He was setting himself up for Cruz 2020 since all of his action ever are only in his own self-interest.

Serving in public office and representing the people of a state is pretty much the definition of NOT serving one's own self-interest.