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Political Unreality

YYW
Posts: 36,391
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7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?
Tsar of DDO
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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7/23/2016 12:53:05 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?

You're doing EXACTLY the same thing.

We can't agree on what the Basic facts of reality are; mainly because neither you, nor people on the other side are willing to concede that everything you believe about what reality actually is, is not 100% true and accurate.

You are not wrong about everything, but the world is much more complex than you give it credit for, and sometimes both sides can be right at the same time about a significant amount of the things that they disagree about.

I have a challenge for you though.

Lets set up a thread; no hostility; no "you're wrong, I'm right"; no you vs me (I'm getting pretty sick of it from both left AND right). No one calls anyone stupid; no one assumes they're right. Instead lets actually have a intelligent, thoughtful thread that discusses what the problems with America, and the world actually are. Lets start off by agreeing the facts, and see where we get?

I'm deadly serious here; as one of the more vocal and smarter rightish wing people here, if we can both actually have a discussion, don't you think it bodes well for the world?

Are you interested?
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 12:53:05 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?

You're doing EXACTLY the same thing.

We can't agree on what the Basic facts of reality are; mainly because neither you, nor people on the other side are willing to concede that everything you believe about what reality actually is, is not 100% true and accurate.

You are not wrong about everything, but the world is much more complex than you give it credit for, and sometimes both sides can be right at the same time about a significant amount of the things that they disagree about.


I have a challenge for you though.

Lets set up a thread; no hostility; no "you're wrong, I'm right"; no you vs me (I'm getting pretty sick of it from both left AND right). No one calls anyone stupid; no one assumes they're right. Instead lets actually have a intelligent, thoughtful thread that discusses what the problems with America, and the world actually are. Lets start off by agreeing the facts, and see where we get?

I'm deadly serious here; as one of the more vocal and smarter rightish wing people here, if we can both actually have a discussion, don't you think it bodes well for the world?

Are you interested?

Are you saying I am "right wing"?

But go ahead with your thread.
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?


If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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7/23/2016 1:02:05 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

Pigeonhole is a ridiculous restrictive categorization.

(you are not right wing)
Semiya
Posts: 405
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7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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7/23/2016 4:56:17 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?

Though I could argue any point with you using statistics, its important to note that statistics and facts arent the end-all-be-all. Facts can be manipulated.

Facts can be contradictory in a way.

Like for example, I can say that most of violent crimes are done by men, which is true, to say that men are inherently more violent than women.

Or I can say that lesbian couples are more likely to be involved in a domestic violence case, which is true, to say that women are inherently more violent than men.

No matter if you make an argument entirely based on facts, some level of your own personal identity and narrative is going to come out. Its how language has always been.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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7/23/2016 5:00:24 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

Oh really? You've read all 34,000 of my posts? Now that's dedication.
Tsar of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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7/23/2016 5:23:36 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 5:00:24 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

Oh really? You've read all 34,000 of my posts? Now that's dedication.

Some people don't enjoy research.
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,395
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7/23/2016 9:09:25 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Maybe Trump is the only man who can fix this.
Both Donald and Ivanka Trump hit one out of the ballpark last night. The liberals have to accept that there is a real possibility that the democrats could lose the White House in November. Reality is now, that until election day, they have to accept that Hillary needs every vote she can get, so the left will need to win over some middle of the road voters.
Semiya
Posts: 405
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7/23/2016 2:49:57 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 5:00:24 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

Oh really? You've read all 34,000 of my posts? Now that's dedication.

Learn to read please. "certainly in all the time I've been here."
Semiya
Posts: 405
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7/23/2016 2:50:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.

And yet all he wants to do is trash anyone who disagrees with him and call people stupid.
MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,404
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7/23/2016 2:54:23 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 2:50:24 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.

And yet all he wants to do is trash anyone who disagrees with him and call people stupid.

I didn't know only right wing people did that.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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7/23/2016 2:58:46 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 2:49:57 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 5:00:24 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

Oh really? You've read all 34,000 of my posts? Now that's dedication.

Learn to read please. "certainly in all the time I've been here."

The issue is that you just don't read, and you don't know enough to understand what you do read. Tej isn't the issue.
Tsar of DDO
Death23
Posts: 784
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7/23/2016 5:07:23 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:

we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts

How do we fix this?

Evidence
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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7/23/2016 5:14:01 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.

Along with thinking that anyone who doesn't agree with his view on homosexuality and LGBT as a disgusting human being. That's pretty liberal as well.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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7/23/2016 5:15:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 5:07:23 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:

we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts

How do we fix this?

Evidence

This. If someone, or a group, wants to simply ignore facts and only argue based on feelings, then they just aren't worth the time. It's like arguing with a 2 year old in the store on why they can't just eat candy all the time.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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7/23/2016 5:42:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I continue to be disappointed by the responses, though I'm hardly surprised.

"I know you are but what am I?" is not a response. It's child's play.
Tsar of DDO
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/23/2016 6:22:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?
I don't claim to know enough about American society to comment on solutions, but it seems that it's the source of these ideas that should be targeted, and part of it seems to be coming from academia, from the likes of George Lakoff, who is more interested in framing ideas to fit leftists ideology than in facts and figures. So a partial remedy of the problem would be to change the current academic landscape, to challenge the now deeply-rooted postmodernism, feminism, etc. that dominates university departments, and to replace them with qualities like closer adherence to the scientific method, honest argumentation, etc.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Semiya
Posts: 405
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7/23/2016 6:27:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 2:58:46 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 2:49:57 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 5:00:24 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 1:00:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:57:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:55:26 AM, YYW wrote:


Are you saying I am "right wing"?



If you are not on the fringe, that's the only other pigeonhole.

I have no idea what that means.

I am not "right wing."

You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

Oh really? You've read all 34,000 of my posts? Now that's dedication.

Learn to read please. "certainly in all the time I've been here."

The issue is that you just don't read, and you don't know enough to understand what you do read. Tej isn't the issue.

Please provide one link to one left wing thing you said in the past 3 weeks.
Semiya
Posts: 405
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7/23/2016 6:28:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 2:54:23 PM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
At 7/23/2016 2:50:24 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.

And yet all he wants to do is trash anyone who disagrees with him and call people stupid.

I didn't know only right wing people did that.

I don't see any left-wing people here doing that. Then again, there are only 3 or 4 left-wing people here. Besides, left wingers don't call people stupid. They call people bigots or racists.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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7/23/2016 6:37:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 5:42:13 PM, YYW wrote:
I continue to be disappointed by the responses, though I'm hardly surprised.

"I know you are but what am I?" is not a response. It's child's play.

I recall reading a person asking to have a legitimate conversation with you but you declined because he referred to you as "right wingish"
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/23/2016 6:41:53 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 4:56:17 AM, bhakun wrote:
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?

Though I could argue any point with you using statistics, its important to note that statistics and facts arent the end-all-be-all.
Well, they're not. But statistics and facts, along with reason, is.
Facts can be manipulated.

Facts can be contradictory in a way.

Like for example, I can say that most of violent crimes are done by men, which is true, to say that men are inherently more violent than women.

Or I can say that lesbian couples are more likely to be involved in a domestic violence case, which is true, to say that women are inherently more violent than men.
Both of these are simply poor arguments because they offer no way of controlling for environmental factors. They don't really show that facts and statistics aren't the be-all-end-all. Rather than using these examples to downplay the importance of facts, our focus should be on *how* we should fix the statistics so that they shed more light on our question of gender differences in our inherent propensities to violence.
No matter if you make an argument entirely based on facts, some level of your own personal identity and narrative is going to come out. Its how language has always been.
I don't completely disagree with this statement. Subjectivity will always play out in our analysis of facts. But assuming one is a rational person, as more facts come out, all informed rational people should converge asymptotically towards the same truth. The convergence may take place slowly, but it's certain.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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7/23/2016 6:42:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 6:28:48 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 2:54:23 PM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
At 7/23/2016 2:50:24 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.

And yet all he wants to do is trash anyone who disagrees with him and call people stupid.

I didn't know only right wing people did that.

I don't see any left-wing people here doing that. Then again, there are only 3 or 4 left-wing people here. Besides, left wingers don't call people stupid. They call people bigots or racists.

Wrong on all 3 accounts.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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7/23/2016 6:50:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/22/2016 11:59:38 PM, YYW wrote:
I've written a lot about political correctness, freedom of speech, the limits that norms of political correctness place on freedom of speech (whether those limits are self imposed or externally imposed), and the like. But, the real problem with "PC" language and norms, and the impact it has on how we talk about political issues, than how that language defines what we perceive reality to be.

The impact is that we're at the point now where we can't even agree on the basic facts of what the world "is." Rather than talking about facts, data, and evidence, what we're doing instead is manipulating the facts and forcing the data to confess. So, we're not having anything like a real conversation about, for example, aggregate crime data or actual instances of police misconduct. Instead we're talking about how hearsay means that the police are "waging wars on black bodies." When facts are whatever they are, they're forced to conform to some narrative of social justice.

Then, because people *believe* this crap, they are incited to mass action, and sometimes violence. Doesn't matter whether it's rape culture, "islamic" peacefulness, the "war on black bodies," or any other SJW lie that is repeated with the level of frequency that you might expect from Goebels.... the facts are disregarded, and the narrative is perpetuated.

Thus, we find ourselves in a state of political unreality.

Wtf.?

How do we fix this?

How can people who have connected their personal identities to waging war against fantasies (i.e. SJWs) be brought back into reality?

It's not that people believe this stuff, it's that they don't care how they win, as long as they win; in some cases, people are just too lazy to research things themselves.

It is now being brought to light, the amount of corruption existent within the federal government. How can we correct this? Thomas Jefferson foresaw this corruption and spoke on it directly:

"[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]... government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,... [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and... bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station."

This profound insight into the future of our nation and the drafters and signers of the constitution having the ability to place their individual and group prides aside to admit the very real potential of corruption moving forward; gave the people specific rights and abilities to clear out any and all public servants from government office and replace with new as we see fit. This specific right shall never be removed from the people.

Unfortunately, this means it is up to the people to band together and call the corruption for what it is and remove the cancer before it spreads too far to cure.
Semiya
Posts: 405
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7/23/2016 6:51:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 6:42:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/23/2016 6:28:48 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 2:54:23 PM, MattTheDreamer wrote:
At 7/23/2016 2:50:24 PM, Semiya wrote:
At 7/23/2016 6:18:54 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/23/2016 4:11:47 AM, Semiya wrote:
You have yet to advance one left wing idea - maybe not ever, but certainly in all the time I've been here.

He supported Bernie Sanders, is very pro-Obama, supports universal free health care and public college, a minimum wage hike, and a universal basic income, and considers himself a libertarian socialist. That's pretty liberal.

And yet all he wants to do is trash anyone who disagrees with him and call people stupid.

I didn't know only right wing people did that.

I don't see any left-wing people here doing that. Then again, there are only 3 or 4 left-wing people here. Besides, left wingers don't call people stupid. They call people bigots or racists.

Wrong on all 3 accounts.

Prove it.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/23/2016 6:55:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 12:53:05 AM, Ramshutu wrote:

Lets set up a thread; no hostility; no "you're wrong, I'm right"; no you vs me (I'm getting pretty sick of it from both left AND right). No one calls anyone stupid; no one assumes they're right. Instead lets actually have a intelligent, thoughtful thread that discusses what the problems with America, and the world actually are. Lets start off by agreeing the facts, and see where we get?

This ought to be the standard for every thread on DDO.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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7/23/2016 7:00:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/23/2016 6:55:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/23/2016 12:53:05 AM, Ramshutu wrote:

Lets set up a thread; no hostility; no "you're wrong, I'm right"; no you vs me (I'm getting pretty sick of it from both left AND right). No one calls anyone stupid; no one assumes they're right. Instead lets actually have a intelligent, thoughtful thread that discusses what the problems with America, and the world actually are. Lets start off by agreeing the facts, and see where we get?

This ought to be the standard for every thread on DDO.

Ike, I can't count the amount of times you dropped the stupid bomb in the past.