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Ron Paul 2012

gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This guy has got the answers! He doesn't care who he pisses off along the way either. America is in need of a revolution, and I think this is our guy! Let's just go straight to the source of the problems, the money! Opinions? Ideas? All are welcome. Let's get together and start the revolution!
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/27/2010 12:08:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
This guy has got the answers! He doesn't care who he pisses off along the way either. America is in need of a revolution, and I think this is our guy! Let's just go straight to the source of the problems, the money! Opinions? Ideas? All are welcome. Let's get together and start the revolution!:

As much as it would delight me for him to run again, I highly, highly doubt that he will. He's getting very old now and he's expressed no interest in running.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
gavin.ogden
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12/27/2010 12:58:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 12:08:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
This guy has got the answers! He doesn't care who he pisses off along the way either. America is in need of a revolution, and I think this is our guy! Let's just go straight to the source of the problems, the money! Opinions? Ideas? All are welcome. Let's get together and start the revolution!:

As much as it would delight me for him to run again, I highly, highly doubt that he will. He's getting very old now and he's expressed no interest in running.

It's looking more and more like he is actually going to run, and I will be first at the polls.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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12/27/2010 3:12:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Paul can't capture the Republican nomination. With conservatives gaining some momentum after this last election, they aren't going to settle for a Ron Paul when they can have a bonified neocon.
no comment
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/27/2010 3:24:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
This guy has got the answers! He doesn't care who he pisses off along the way either. America is in need of a revolution, and I think this is our guy! Let's just go straight to the source of the problems, the money! Opinions? Ideas? All are welcome. Let's get together and start the revolution!

Isn't that the exact same slogan he had in 2008? And all the way back to 1988 election?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/27/2010 3:25:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:12:50 PM, Caramel wrote:
Paul can't capture the Republican nomination. With conservatives gaining some momentum after this last election, they aren't going to settle for a Ron Paul when they can have a bonified neocon.

lol, neo-con, that brings back memories. I'm surprised how quickly the democrats dropped that tag from their attacks.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
gavin.ogden
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12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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12/27/2010 4:46:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.

It's hard to find something about capitalism that isn't headed toward some sort of collapse.
no comment
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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12/27/2010 4:52:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 4:46:37 PM, Caramel wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.

It's hard to find something about capitalism that isn't headed toward some sort of collapse.

The Fed is inherently uncapitalisic; it's a government institution that either wouldn't exist or would be completely useless if we had a free and unregulated monetary system.
gavin.ogden
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12/27/2010 5:02:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 4:52:48 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:46:37 PM, Caramel wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.

It's hard to find something about capitalism that isn't headed toward some sort of collapse.

The Fed is inherently uncapitalisic; it's a government institution that either wouldn't exist or would be completely useless if we had a free and unregulated monetary system.

You forgot about the whole backing system. We must back up our currency on gold, or silver for it to actually be worth anything.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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12/27/2010 5:16:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:02:10 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
You forgot about the whole backing system. We must back up our currency on gold, or silver for it to actually be worth anything.

I don't think government should be in the business of interfering with the monetary system at all; a gold standard still mandates the use of a certain currency. If government legalized competing currencies, chances are the market would choose either gold and silver or something backed by a basket of commodities.
gavin.ogden
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12/27/2010 5:23:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:16:34 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 12/27/2010 5:02:10 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
You forgot about the whole backing system. We must back up our currency on gold, or silver for it to actually be worth anything.

I don't think government should be in the business of interfering with the monetary system at all; a gold standard still mandates the use of a certain currency. If government legalized competing currencies, chances are the market would choose either gold and silver or something backed by a basket of commodities.

Agreed.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/27/2010 5:25:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:02:10 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:52:48 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:46:37 PM, Caramel wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.

It's hard to find something about capitalism that isn't headed toward some sort of collapse.

The Fed is inherently uncapitalisic; it's a government institution that either wouldn't exist or would be completely useless if we had a free and unregulated monetary system.

You forgot about the whole backing system. We must back up our currency on gold, or silver for it to actually be worth anything.

naw. the issue with the fed is that they just print more money whenever they feel like it; the only reason we "need" any kind of standard is because without one its too easy to print more money and "fix" everything that way. money is already worth something because people accept it in exchange for goods.

its not like gold is inherently valuable where money is not...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/27/2010 5:32:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:25:39 PM, belle wrote:
At 12/27/2010 5:02:10 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:52:48 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:46:37 PM, Caramel wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.

It's hard to find something about capitalism that isn't headed toward some sort of collapse.

The Fed is inherently uncapitalisic; it's a government institution that either wouldn't exist or would be completely useless if we had a free and unregulated monetary system.

You forgot about the whole backing system. We must back up our currency on gold, or silver for it to actually be worth anything.

naw. the issue with the fed is that they just print more money whenever they feel like it; the only reason we "need" any kind of standard is because without one its too easy to print more money and "fix" everything that way. money is already worth something because people accept it in exchange for goods.

its not like gold is inherently valuable where money is not...

The world is getting hip to our money woes though. The value of the dollar is eventually going to drop severely, unless we change the standard. Everything else, I totally agree, but the money is NOT backed, and the Fed continues to print it by the TRILLIONS.
Sieben
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12/27/2010 7:00:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1) Ron Paul is "left" of the status quo

2) Ron Paul is cool with secession, so cali can go and bankrupt itself with universal space healthcare.
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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12/27/2010 7:16:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ron Paul
I'll vote Republican if he's on the ticket at all. Even as VP. Else, if Romney appears on the ticket, even as VP, I'm voting Democrat. Otherwise, I'll probably vote for whichever ticket seems to emphasize Libertarian ideals more: if Democrats emphasize social freedom, they get my vote; if Republicans emphasize economic freedom, they get my vote.

Strategically, if the Republicans want to grab the Tea Party movement, they can't nominate Romney.
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Caramel
Posts: 855
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12/27/2010 11:20:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 4:52:48 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:46:37 PM, Caramel wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:42:23 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:32:17 PM, belle wrote:
he's smarter than i thought he was... think its weird how he defines himself by the fed issue though.

The fed issue is going to cause our economy to utterly collapse.

It's hard to find something about capitalism that isn't headed toward some sort of collapse.

The Fed is inherently uncapitalisic; it's a government institution that either wouldn't exist or would be completely useless if we had a free and unregulated monetary system.

Most "government institutions" are a direct result of needing to handle capitalistic externalities.

Banks are inherently capitalistic; trying to separate them from capitalism is rather silly.

Ignoring history will get you nowhere; we haven't been growing the government for 200 years just because we have liberal big-government idealogues who believe in a huge government like it's a hobby or something, we are growing it because capitalism doesn't work as well as we would like and we can't cope with the problems it creates.

Once you institute capitalism, you need a government to enforce property rights. You need police and hence prisons to make the government able to control the public, and then courts to make decisions that shouldn't be left to the police. We then need a congress to write laws for the courts to interpret, and an executive branch to help implement all the laws. The government will now start to grow and grow, because capitalism is competitive and the government must essentially compete with business to ensure public needs are met (which are conveniently taken away from businesses and the people and given to the government to be responsible for - bad idea). Take the oil spill, for example. Everyone's like "what is Obama doing?..." Well rest assured that, while there weren't any oil experts in the government before, there now will have to be because we are now expecting the government to protect us from that industry. So the government needs to hire experts from all fields known to man, have schemes ready to go to regulate them and men on the ground enforcing these regulations so businesses can't dodge them.

But what if we just make the oil industry responsible for their actions and sue them if they screw up? Well, that's great while it exists in theory in a DDO forum but that's not how real life works. We need people out there watching these people to see what their doing. We need people to watch these people to make sure that they aren't taking a capitalistic short-cut and accepting bribes. We need a system of complicated rules and regulations that are potent enough to stop violators but flexible enough to allow breathing room to operate. We need courts to judge them and lawyers to try the cases, we need insurance institutions to cover their as5es in case something goes wrong, banks for them to invest their profits in... And guess what? All these things go right back to the beginning and need rules, officials, etc, and this complex weave grows out of control until some history-blind libertarians come out and say hey! We don't need all these rules and regulations because capitalism regulates itself!
no comment
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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12/27/2010 11:23:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Caramel, if that's actually how the growth of government works, and greater government intervention is because of the problems capitalism causes, then why do drug laws exist? Are they a natural response to problems caused by unregulated drug use? If not, why does that explanation of the growth of government work for things you don't like, but not work for things you do like?
Should we subsidize education?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/28/2010 5:06:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
All he needs is an relatively unknown female Governor as running mate!

Oh wait ...

Belief in witchcraft is optional, parental guidance recommended.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/28/2010 5:57:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The world is getting hip to our money woes though. The value of the dollar is eventually going to drop severely, unless we change the standard. Everything else, I totally agree, but the money is NOT backed, and the Fed continues to print it by the TRILLIONS.:

The FED will be what completely destroys this country and hurls us in to an unrecoverable catastrophe, without question.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -- Woodrow Wilson

"This establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized.... the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." -- Charles Lindbergh
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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12/28/2010 8:39:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
This guy has got the answers! He doesn't care who he pisses off along the way either. America is in need of a revolution, and I think this is our guy!

I think he is great, but he will never win.
He got a ton of hype in 2009 going into 2010, but faded when the media spoke of "real contenders!"
I can see a small comeback if he wins CPAC 2011 and the Southern Republican Leadership Conference, but I do not see the comeback needed to run as a contender.

Let's just go straight to the source of the problems, the money!

He can raise money. I do not think that is the problem.

Opinions? Ideas? All are welcome. Let's get together and start the revolution!

We are full of big government contenders, and that is what the people want. People say they want small government, but they do not realize what that phrase entails.

A smaller, yet still "BIG", government republican will get the nomination.

Look for ,
Mike Huckabee
Mitt Romney

Maybe a,
Mitch Daniels
Gary E. Johnson
Bob McDonnell
Tim Pawlenty

But it will be Huck or Romney that make a huge impact.

I would like to see a Huck V Obama run.
I may even vote Huckabee!
(Wow! I do not think I would ever say that.)
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/28/2010 10:03:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/28/2010 8:39:38 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
This guy has got the answers! He doesn't care who he pisses off along the way either. America is in need of a revolution, and I think this is our guy!

I think he is great, but he will never win.
He got a ton of hype in 2009 going into 2010, but faded when the media spoke of "real contenders!"
I can see a small comeback if he wins CPAC 2011 and the Southern Republican Leadership Conference, but I do not see the comeback needed to run as a contender.


Let's just go straight to the source of the problems, the money!

He can raise money. I do not think that is the problem.

Opinions? Ideas? All are welcome. Let's get together and start the revolution!

We are full of big government contenders, and that is what the people want. People say they want small government, but they do not realize what that phrase entails.

A smaller, yet still "BIG", government republican will get the nomination.

Look for ,
Mike Huckabee
Mitt Romney

Maybe a,
Mitch Daniels
Gary E. Johnson
Bob McDonnell
Tim Pawlenty

But it will be Huck or Romney that make a huge impact.

I would like to see a Huck V Obama run.
I may even vote Huckabee!
(Wow! I do not think I would ever say that.)

That's the real beauty of this country. We truly are the ones with the power, but people need to be knowledgable. When they just take what the media puts out, without research, they show their laziness. Unfortunately, this laziness comes with a hefty price tag. Our freedom. People like Huckabee are one of the main reasons we are losing our freedom. He is a religious fundamentalist, and that is the last thing we need in the White House, again.
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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12/28/2010 1:51:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/28/2010 10:03:45 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/28/2010 8:39:38 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 12/27/2010 11:47:49 AM, gavin.ogden wrote:

That's the real beauty of this country. We truly are the ones with the power, but people need to be knowledgable. When they just take what the media puts out, without research, they show their laziness. Unfortunately, this laziness comes with a hefty price tag. Our freedom. People like Huckabee are one of the main reasons we are losing our freedom. He is a religious fundamentalist, and that is the last thing we need in the White House, again.

Agreed.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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12/28/2010 2:04:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/28/2010 5:57:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

The FED will be what completely destroys this country and hurls us in to an unrecoverable catastrophe, without question.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -- Woodrow Wilson

"This establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized.... the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." -- Charles Lindbergh



I don't think the Wilson quote is real. Also, the Fed's actions here, I'm assuming, were to bring global interest rates down in the wake of the 2007/2008 financial crisis. It isn't surprising that Ben wouldn't know where the money went, for it was given to foreign central banks, whom then lent to their surrounding financial institutions accordingly. You may not agree that it was necessary, but when the sky was falling in 2008, I personally see why they wanted to bring interest rates down.
gavin.ogden
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12/28/2010 2:14:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/28/2010 2:04:49 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 12/28/2010 5:57:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

The FED will be what completely destroys this country and hurls us in to an unrecoverable catastrophe, without question.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -- Woodrow Wilson

"This establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized.... the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." -- Charles Lindbergh



I don't think the Wilson quote is real. Also, the Fed's actions here, I'm assuming, were to bring global interest rates down in the wake of the 2007/2008 financial crisis. It isn't surprising that Ben wouldn't know where the money went, for it was given to foreign central banks, whom then lent to their surrounding financial institutions accordingly. You may not agree that it was necessary, but when the sky was falling in 2008, I personally see why they wanted to bring interest rates down.

They are delaying the inevidable. Interest rates, themselves, are simply a part of credit. In other words, by lowering interest rates, they are simply creating more debt, with no actual money to back up the debt. So, to alleviate this lack of funds, they have to print more money, which in turn lowers the value of the dollar. We ARE bankrupt. There is no money left. Every penny the government spends is on credit, and pretty soon, no one will lend us anymore money. That day will be the end of the American monetary system as we know it. You know those car commercials that cater to people with horrible credit? Just understand that our country is "that guy" with $hitty credit, and pretty soon, we'll be SOL.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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12/28/2010 3:06:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/28/2010 2:14:02 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/28/2010 2:04:49 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 12/28/2010 5:57:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

They are delaying the inevidable. Interest rates, themselves, are simply a part of credit. In other words, by lowering interest rates, they are simply creating more debt, with no actual money to back up the debt. So, to alleviate this lack of funds, they have to print more money, which in turn lowers the value of the dollar. We ARE bankrupt. There is no money left. Every penny the government spends is on credit, and pretty soon, no one will lend us anymore money. That day will be the end of the American monetary system as we know it. You know those car commercials that cater to people with horrible credit? Just understand that our country is "that guy" with $hitty credit, and pretty soon, we'll be SOL.

Actually, lowering interest rates is one strategy used in cushioning the economic crash, which is beneficial in the short and long run. If the markets were allowed to contract without intervention, the US and global economy would fall into a Great Depression, banking systems would collapse worldwide, and the US would really be bankrupt in that scenario, and the recovery process would be much more of a long, uphill battle.

Also, the US is mainly bankrupt due to fiscal irresponsibility, which is different from the Fed's monetary policy. When the Fed prints money, it actually reduces the deficit indirectly, and the main consequence would end up being inflation under most circumstances.
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/28/2010 3:21:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/28/2010 3:06:01 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 12/28/2010 2:14:02 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/28/2010 2:04:49 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 12/28/2010 5:57:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

They are delaying the inevidable. Interest rates, themselves, are simply a part of credit. In other words, by lowering interest rates, they are simply creating more debt, with no actual money to back up the debt. So, to alleviate this lack of funds, they have to print more money, which in turn lowers the value of the dollar. We ARE bankrupt. There is no money left. Every penny the government spends is on credit, and pretty soon, no one will lend us anymore money. That day will be the end of the American monetary system as we know it. You know those car commercials that cater to people with horrible credit? Just understand that our country is "that guy" with $hitty credit, and pretty soon, we'll be SOL.

Actually, lowering interest rates is one strategy used in cushioning the economic crash, which is beneficial in the short and long run. If the markets were allowed to contract without intervention, the US and global economy would fall into a Great Depression, banking systems would collapse worldwide, and the US would really be bankrupt in that scenario, and the recovery process would be much more of a long, uphill battle.

Also, the US is mainly bankrupt due to fiscal irresponsibility, which is different from the Fed's monetary policy. When the Fed prints money, it actually reduces the deficit indirectly, and the main consequence would end up being inflation under most circumstances.

The great depression you speak of, is the inevitability I was referring to. It IS going to happen, so why don't we all just get educated and brace for impact. I mean, for heaven's sake, we've already used our credit card(The Fed) to bail out entire countries! We could not get any more fiscally irresponsible if we tried. I am well aware of the policies and practices regarding the fed, and the way our government spends. I just wish the rest of the population understood, and was ready to do what is necessary instead of taking shortcuts.