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If you could rewrite the Constitution...

bsh1
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7/26/2016 10:41:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
...in part or in whole, how would you change it (or would you change it at all)?
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 10:56:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
That depends on whether I live in 1787 or 2016.
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thett3
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7/26/2016 11:03:31 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
If I could change it circa 1787 I would establish a monarch.

No joke. A constitutional monarchy is the ideal form of government. If we tried to implement one today it would be a complete disaster, but if we had a tradition of monarchy for 250+ years we'd be in better shape in my opinion.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:10:17 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 10:56:45 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
That depends on whether I live in 1787 or 2016.

2016.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:10:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:03:31 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could change it circa 1787 I would establish a monarch.

No joke. A constitutional monarchy is the ideal form of government. If we tried to implement one today it would be a complete disaster, but if we had a tradition of monarchy for 250+ years we'd be in better shape in my opinion.

I tend to agree, or even an elected figurehead of some ilk.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:12:17 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:10:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 10:56:45 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
That depends on whether I live in 1787 or 2016.

2016.

Am I limited to only writing the Bill of Rights?
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:12:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I would establish a semi-federal Parliamentary system with either an elected Presidential figurehead or a constitutional monarch. I would expand and edit the bill of rights to include a variety of other things, and to dis-include gun rights. I might also reword the text of our religious freedoms guarantee.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:12:56 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:12:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:10:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 10:56:45 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
That depends on whether I live in 1787 or 2016.

2016.

Am I limited to only writing the Bill of Rights?

Anything in the Constitution. You could even suggest a whole new system of governance.
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thett3
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7/26/2016 11:13:43 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:10:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:03:31 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could change it circa 1787 I would establish a monarch.

No joke. A constitutional monarchy is the ideal form of government. If we tried to implement one today it would be a complete disaster, but if we had a tradition of monarchy for 250+ years we'd be in better shape in my opinion.

I tend to agree, or even an elected figurehead of some ilk.

The president being a politician really undermines their ability to act as a national figurehead. For every tragedy that happens, at least some part of their mind will be thinking about the political implications. I would give the monarch powers, but even a symbolic head of state is useful...

But like I said I think it would be really difficult to get it to catch on today
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:15:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:03:31 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could change it circa 1787 I would establish a monarch.

No joke. A constitutional monarchy is the ideal form of government. If we tried to implement one today it would be a complete disaster, but if we had a tradition of monarchy for 250+ years we'd be in better shape in my opinion.

Who would the royal family be?
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:18:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:13:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:10:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:03:31 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could change it circa 1787 I would establish a monarch.

No joke. A constitutional monarchy is the ideal form of government. If we tried to implement one today it would be a complete disaster, but if we had a tradition of monarchy for 250+ years we'd be in better shape in my opinion.

I tend to agree, or even an elected figurehead of some ilk.

The president being a politician really undermines their ability to act as a national figurehead. For every tragedy that happens, at least some part of their mind will be thinking about the political implications. I would give the monarch powers, but even a symbolic head of state is useful...

IDK. I think that their are benefits to them both being a politician and a figurehead. In Europe, Presidents often fulfill their impartial roles with remarkable distinction--Italy, Iceland, Greece, etc. Examples I have seen their lead me to believe they could be impartial despite being politicians, but the fact that they are politicians means also that they have an elected mandate to bestow upon them an added layer of legitimacy. Not all Monarchs are good at being impartial or apolitical figureheads; I certainly don't think Charles will carry that role out when the Queen dies in England.

But like I said I think it would be really difficult to get it to catch on today

Sure, but this is more of a "what would you do if you could," kind of thing.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:19:05 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I ask this question, because, as part of a summer class I've been taking, we've been asked to design a constitution for a hypothetical country. It's been an interesting project, and I am curious to here what issues people have with our own Constitution and why, as well as their preferred solutions to those issues.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:23:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:15:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:03:31 PM, thett3 wrote:
If I could change it circa 1787 I would establish a monarch.

No joke. A constitutional monarchy is the ideal form of government. If we tried to implement one today it would be a complete disaster, but if we had a tradition of monarchy for 250+ years we'd be in better shape in my opinion.

Who would the royal family be?

Alexander Hamliton's family?
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:25:47 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:19:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I ask this question, because, as part of a summer class I've been taking, we've been asked to design a constitution for a hypothetical country. It's been an interesting project, and I am curious to here what issues people have with our own Constitution and why, as well as their preferred solutions to those issues.

I've done similar before.
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Vox_Veritas
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7/26/2016 11:25:53 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Reword the article pertaining to freedom of the press. Include a constitutional right to privacy of mind.
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Vox_Veritas
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7/26/2016 11:30:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:25:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Reword the article pertaining to freedom of the press. Include a constitutional right to privacy of mind.

Furthermore, the First Amendment would read: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or irreligion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:32:46 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:30:24 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:25:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Reword the article pertaining to freedom of the press. Include a constitutional right to privacy of mind.

Furthermore, the First Amendment would read: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or irreligion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

I would reword it to: "Persons shall have the freedom of religious belief and religious non-belief. Congress shall not establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise of religion or irreligion. The United States shall observe a separation between church and state."
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:33:23 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:25:47 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:19:05 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I ask this question, because, as part of a summer class I've been taking, we've been asked to design a constitution for a hypothetical country. It's been an interesting project, and I am curious to here what issues people have with our own Constitution and why, as well as their preferred solutions to those issues.

I've done similar before.

Cool. My problem is that I get to into the weeds, and want to be over-specific in things.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Vox_Veritas
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7/26/2016 11:38:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
28th Amendment: "The right to privacy of mind shall not be infringed."
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:50:01 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
For now, I'll specifically address the Bill of Rights.

1st: I would expand free speech and explicitly establish a secular state.

2nd: I would probably remove the "right to bear arms" and change it to a equal force/limited immunity castle doctrine.

3rd: I don't care about the third amendment.

4th: I would explicitly modernize the amendment to prevent ambiguity on warrantless wiretapping.

5th-8th: Apply all judicial rights to anyone detained by the government (ex: suspected terrorists)

8th: Explicitly note the death penalty as illegal punishment.

9th: No change.

10th: I wouldn't write it.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:52:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:25:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Reword the article pertaining to freedom of the press. Include a constitutional right to privacy of mind.

Nice. I would change our bill of rights to recognize these fundamental rights:

- Right to life
- Right to free expression (press, free speech, protest, etc.)
- Right against torture and cruel/unusual punishment
- Right against servitude
- Right to privacy and personal identity
- Right to due process and a fair/jury trial (including a right to be informed of your rights upon arrest)
- Right against ex post facto laws and punishments
- Right to freedom of religious belief or non-belief, as well as freedom of thought
- Right to freedom of assembly and association
- Right to not be arbitrarily deprived of (a) any right stated here or (b) social good provided directly to others by the state; i.e. the right to equality before the law and equal protection under and benefit of the law
- Right against forceful quartering of soldiers in private properties
- Right against seizure of property without just cause and just compensation, except as evidence in a criminal trial
- Right to food, water, and shelter sufficient to live
- Right to non-elective healthcare
- Right to fair working conditions, with time for recreation and decent pay
- Right to freedom of movement and residence within the country, as well as the right to a passport and to travel abroad if they so desire
- Right to education through high school
- Right to effective remedy for rights violations, and to effective checks on government overreach
- Right to freely choose a trade or profession

I might be able to think of others with time, but I think this is fairly comprehensive. It was inspired by the European Convention on Human Rights, our own bill of rights, the South African bill of rights, and my own experience.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:54:08 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Next, I too, would prefer a parliament with a Prime Minister. I also wouldn't have a natural-born citizen clause or any other restrictions for the highest executive as there is in the US currently, but only require citizenship.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:54:18 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:50:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
2nd: I would probably remove the "right to bear arms" and change it to a equal force/limited immunity castle doctrine.

What do you mean by this (bolded)? Why does it need to be replaced at all?
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:55:27 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:54:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Next, I too, would prefer a parliament with a Prime Minister. I also wouldn't have a natural-born citizen clause or any other restrictions for the highest executive as there is in the US currently, but only require citizenship.

This. I might add a length of citizenship requirement, a requirement that you cannot also hold another citizenship while serving as PM, and put a basic age limit (say, 30) on the role. But I would definitely omit the "natural born" idea, or any residency requirement.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:55:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:54:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:50:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
2nd: I would probably remove the "right to bear arms" and change it to a equal force/limited immunity castle doctrine.

What do you mean by this (bolded)? Why does it need to be replaced at all?

It protects the right to defend one's self in the home. I wouldn't *ban* the concept of gun ownership, but replace it with explicit right to defense.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/26/2016 11:56:07 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:55:27 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:54:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Next, I too, would prefer a parliament with a Prime Minister. I also wouldn't have a natural-born citizen clause or any other restrictions for the highest executive as there is in the US currently, but only require citizenship.

This. I might add a length of citizenship requirement, a requirement that you cannot also hold another citizenship while serving as PM, and put a basic age limit (say, 30) on the role. But I would definitely omit the "natural born" idea, or any residency requirement.

I would actually abolish dual-citizenship laws in all respects.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:56:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
In post 21, I meant "forced or indentured" servitude.
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bsh1
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7/26/2016 11:59:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:56:07 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:55:27 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:54:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Next, I too, would prefer a parliament with a Prime Minister. I also wouldn't have a natural-born citizen clause or any other restrictions for the highest executive as there is in the US currently, but only require citizenship.

This. I might add a length of citizenship requirement, a requirement that you cannot also hold another citizenship while serving as PM, and put a basic age limit (say, 30) on the role. But I would definitely omit the "natural born" idea, or any residency requirement.

I would actually abolish dual-citizenship laws in all respects.

Why? I actually strongly support dual citizenship.

More to the point, there are no laws in the US respecting dual citizenship that I can think of. Foreigners who become US citizens must foreswear all external allegiances, ostensibly implying that dual citizenship is prohibited, even if we don't really force them to give up their previous citizenships.

In some places, like Iran, it is impossible to give up your citizenship, and your citizenship may often be conferred on you involuntarily through birth. Just by being born to an Iranian, you are Iranian, and Iran will always recognize you as such, no matter what. So, if you prohibited dual citizenship, no Iranian could ever become American...
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7/27/2016 12:03:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/26/2016 11:55:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:54:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/26/2016 11:50:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
2nd: I would probably remove the "right to bear arms" and change it to a equal force/limited immunity castle doctrine.

What do you mean by this (bolded)? Why does it need to be replaced at all?

It protects the right to defend one's self in the home.

No court would deny you the right to self-defense. We have a right to self-defense with no mention of self-defense in our bill of rights already.

But, I would also be skeptical of asserting any particular doctrine of self-defense as a right. I don't think being on your property gives you special self-defense rights that you don't have while not on your property. Self-defense has to do with the person, not the place. If you want to explicitly grant a right to self-defense, I might just say: "persons have a right to take reasonable measures to protect themselves against imminent bodily harm being inflicted upon them."

I wouldn't *ban* the concept of gun ownership, but replace it with explicit right to defense.

I wouldn't ban the concept of gun ownership in the constitutional document. That's something I would do with legislation...
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/27/2016 12:09:33 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
This would probably be what I'd have for personal rights:

-Unalienable right to the body and mind

Therefore, expression (mind extends to speech) cannot be restricted in any form by any institution run by the government. In effect, there can be no laws pertaining to obscenity, and the FCC - for example - would not be able to enforce laws on language of subject matter on television, but networks can only apply standards.

As for the body, things such as conscription would be unconstitutional. Laws pertaining to abortion would have to respect that the government must not force someone to have children.

However, corporations would not be able to claim to this concept, since it is of the individual, not corporate entity - companies can't complain about religious freedom, because corporations cannot practice a religion. Which leads me to another thing:

-Individuals have the right to organize to promote a certain view and/or to protest

See: Andrew Cuomo and BDS
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