Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

Hillary Clinton admires Margaret Sanger

CRandy
Posts: 12
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Trump and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Trump and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2016 9:33:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Trump and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Trump and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Liberalism is racism in its purest form. Plantation politics...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 12:56:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Trump and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Trump and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

When and where did Sanger say that? When and where did Clinton say that?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 1:16:32 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 12:56:36 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Trump and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Trump and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

When and where did Sanger say that? When and where did Clinton say that?

It doesn't matter. Candidates are not responsible for their supporters actions.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 5:04:02 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.

1) Sanger never said that
http://quotefail.com...
http://www.snopes.com...

2) There is a quote which many often attribute to her which some claim showed she was racist, but that quote is missing vital context and is an example of quote mining.
http://www.politifact.com...

People want to talk about Donald Drumpf and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Drumpf and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

1) You conceded that Drumpf is racist
2) Your argument doesn't show how Hillary is racist. It shows that Hillary is an admirer of a woman who didn't actually say something racist, but a racist quote has been falsely attributed to her. Even if it was a real quote, which it isn't, one can still admire someone for other things they did, even if they held some unsavory views. In order to prove someone is racist, you must prove that they themselves hold racist views.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 6:13:06 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 5:04:02 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.

1) Sanger never said that
http://quotefail.com...
http://www.snopes.com...

2) There is a quote which many often attribute to her which some claim showed she was racist, but that quote is missing vital context and is an example of quote mining.
http://www.politifact.com...


People want to talk about Donald Drumpf and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Drumpf and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

1) You conceded that Drumpf is racist
2) Your argument doesn't show how Hillary is racist. It shows that Hillary is an admirer of a woman who didn't actually say something racist, but a racist quote has been falsely attributed to her. Even if it was a real quote, which it isn't, one can still admire someone for other things they did, even if they held some unsavory views. In order to prove someone is racist, you must prove that they themselves hold racist views.

^
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 6:26:35 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 9:33:33 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Drumpf and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Drumpf and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Liberalism is racism in its purest form. Plantation politics...

Citation please
Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 4:54:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
.You asked," When and where did Sanger say that,"Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated..."
j25;"Speech quoted in "Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do." The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174.
j25;"Birth control is not contraception indiscriminately and thoughtlessly practiced. It means the release and cultivation of the better racial elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extirpation of defective stocks"( those human weeds) which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization. "
Wikipedia
Comment byDinesh D. Souza in his book Titled," Hillary's AMERICA"
"For all her positive influence, I see Sanger as a tarnished heroine whose embrace of the eugenics movement showed racial insensitivity, at best. From her associates, as well as from some of the articles that were published in Sanger's magazine, the Birth Control review, it is possible to conclude that "racially insensitive" is too mild a description. Indeed, some of her statements, taken in or out of context, are simply racist. And she never rebuked eugenicists..."
Throwback
Posts: 421
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 5:49:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 6:26:35 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/10/2016 9:33:33 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Drumpf and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Drumpf and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Liberalism is racism in its purest form. Plantation politics...

Citation please

Yes, you see, because the fact of the matter is the racism of the left is apparent everywhere. It is a decades long tradition for the left. Unfortunately, that stopped being the fact it was when it was stated without citation. And where does the author of the citation get it? Ultimately it comes from observation and critical thinking skills, which it appears are not a leftist trait (no citation needed).

Pseudo intellectualism is just an embarasment to your position.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
thett3
Posts: 14,341
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 7:09:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Dems r real racist
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 7:18:57 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Trump and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Trump and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Where and when did she say those words?
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 8:03:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 5:49:24 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/11/2016 6:26:35 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/10/2016 9:33:33 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Drumpf and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Drumpf and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Liberalism is racism in its purest form. Plantation politics...

Citation please

Yes, you see, because the fact of the matter is the racism of the left is apparent everywhere. It is a decades long tradition for the left. Unfortunately, that stopped being the fact it was when it was stated without citation. And where does the author of the citation get it? Ultimately it comes from observation and critical thinking skills, which it appears are not a leftist trait (no citation needed).

Pseudo-intellectualism is just an embarasment to your position.

1) Please give me some evidence that the left is racist. If you cannot substantiate your claim then we must assume that it is false.
2) Simply claiming " the racism of the left is apparent everywhere." Does not justify your claim, give me an example.
4) Yes, they did get it from observation and analysis, but you did not provide any of your own analysis, you simply made a bold statement without justification and you did not provide any of their analysis to substantiate your claim.
5) You claim that you do not need a citation for your claim that leftists lack critical thinking skills, however, you in no way attempt to justify this claim, and simply state it as if it is a fact. But given the works of Leftists like Richard Wolff, Paul Sweezy, Cornel West, Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Francis Fox Piven, Michael Harrington, etc. AND the fact that Critical theory comes from the Neo-Marxist Frankfurt school, I would argue that these demonstrate a high level of critical thinking and observation.
6) Pseudo-intellectualism? What?!
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 9:17:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 4:54:50 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:
.You asked," When and where did Sanger say that,"Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated..."
j25;"Speech quoted in "Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do." The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174.
j25;"Birth control is not contraception indiscriminately and thoughtlessly practiced. It means the release and cultivation of the better racial elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extirpation of defective stocks"( those human weeds) which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization. "

Ah, so she didn't actually say what you quoted, but you've put together some words she allegedly said. Well let's just take the first one. Here's a link to the text you allege has those words from Sanger in it: https://babel.hathitrust.org...

I don't see them at the cited pages (172 and 174). Please feel free to screenshot and highlight them for us.

This is two attempts from you to falsely quote someone. I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to take you seriously regarding any other supposed quotes.

Wikipedia
Comment byDinesh D. Souza in his book Titled," Hillary's AMERICA"
"For all her positive influence, I see Sanger as a tarnished heroine whose embrace of the eugenics movement showed racial insensitivity, at best. From her associates, as well as from some of the articles that were published in Sanger's magazine, the Birth Control review, it is possible to conclude that "racially insensitive" is too mild a description. Indeed, some of her statements, taken in or out of context, are simply racist. And she never rebuked eugenicists..."
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 9:23:45 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I mean, regardless of what else Sanger believed and accomplished, she was a eugenicist. Any adulation of her from anyone on the left ought to be tempered by that fact.

Though I'm not at all surprised to see Hillary fawning over her. The profound elitism and antipathy towards humanity which underlie the eugenicist's convictions align with her perfectly.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 10:09:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 9:23:45 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I mean, regardless of what else Sanger believed and accomplished, she was a eugenicist. Any adulation of her from anyone on the left ought to be tempered by that fact.

Though I'm not at all surprised to see Hillary fawning over her. The profound elitism and antipathy towards humanity which underlie the eugenicist's convictions align with her perfectly.

Out of curiosity, what makes a eugenicist less worthy of adulation than a slave-owner?
Throwback
Posts: 421
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 10:16:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 8:03:14 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/11/2016 5:49:24 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/11/2016 6:26:35 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/10/2016 9:33:33 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Drumpf and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Drumpf and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Liberalism is racism in its purest form. Plantation politics...

Citation please

Yes, you see, because the fact of the matter is the racism of the left is apparent everywhere. It is a decades long tradition for the left. Unfortunately, that stopped being the fact it was when it was stated without citation. And where does the author of the citation get it? Ultimately it comes from observation and critical thinking skills, which it appears are not a leftist trait (no citation needed).

Pseudo-intellectualism is just an embarasment to your position.

1) Please give me some evidence that the left is racist. If you cannot substantiate your claim then we must assume that it is false.
2) Simply claiming " the racism of the left is apparent everywhere." Does not justify your claim, give me an example.
4) Yes, they did get it from observation and analysis, but you did not provide any of your own analysis, you simply made a bold statement without justification and you did not provide any of their analysis to substantiate your claim.
5) You claim that you do not need a citation for your claim that leftists lack critical thinking skills, however, you in no way attempt to justify this claim, and simply state it as if it is a fact. But given the works of Leftists like Richard Wolff, Paul Sweezy, Cornel West, Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Francis Fox Piven, Michael Harrington, etc. AND the fact that Critical theory comes from the Neo-Marxist Frankfurt school, I would argue that these demonstrate a high level of critical thinking and observation.
6) Pseudo-intellectualism? What?!

OK
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 10:17:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 10:09:30 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:23:45 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I mean, regardless of what else Sanger believed and accomplished, she was a eugenicist. Any adulation of her from anyone on the left ought to be tempered by that fact.

Though I'm not at all surprised to see Hillary fawning over her. The profound elitism and antipathy towards humanity which underlie the eugenicist's convictions align with her perfectly.

Out of curiosity, what makes a eugenicist less worthy of adulation than a slave-owner?

Nothing, especially given not all Eugenicists were motivated by race as it currently exists. While many were, Eugenicists like Sanger, HG Wells, Winston Churchill, George Bernard Shaw, and WEB DuBois were interested in weeding out genuine genetic problems, like inheritable diseases, and perceived genetic shortcomings, like poor eyesight, shortness, etc. We know today that its all BS and they were wrong in so many ways, but not all Eugenicists were racists.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 10:41:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The quote doesn't appear to be real. Sanger didn't approve of "aggressive eugenics" like what the Nazis practiced. She didn't even want the state to carry out benign eugenic policies, but instead wanted individuals to assume the responsibility themselves.

"First: we are convinced that racial regeneration like individual regeneration, must come "from within." That is, it must be autonomous, self-directive, and not imposed from without. In other words, every potential parent, and especially every potential mother, must be brought to an acute realization of the primary and central importance of bringing children into this world."
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 10:43:18 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
"Thirdly: we have come to the conclusion, based on widespread investigation and experience, that this education for parenthood and of parenthood must be based upon the needs and demands of the people themselves. An idealistic code of sexual ethics, imposed from above, a set of rules devised by high-minded theorists who fail to take into account the living conditions and desires of the submerged masses, can never be of the slightest value in effecting any changes in the mores of the people. Such systems have in the past revealed their woeful inability to prevent the sexual and racial chaos into which the world has today drifted."
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2016 11:31:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 10:09:30 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:23:45 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I mean, regardless of what else Sanger believed and accomplished, she was a eugenicist. Any adulation of her from anyone on the left ought to be tempered by that fact.

Though I'm not at all surprised to see Hillary fawning over her. The profound elitism and antipathy towards humanity which underlie the eugenicist's convictions align with her perfectly.

Out of curiosity, what makes a eugenicist less worthy of adulation than a slave-owner?

Nothing. I would consider both to be flaws, especially if they were held to in the face of public debate. Hamilton definitely had the moral high ground over Jefferson, for example. And that's not to say that Sanger or Jefferson cannot be admired, just that any admiration should contain a footnote.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2016 2:16:02 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/11/2016 10:17:15 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/11/2016 10:09:30 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:23:45 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I mean, regardless of what else Sanger believed and accomplished, she was a eugenicist. Any adulation of her from anyone on the left ought to be tempered by that fact.

Though I'm not at all surprised to see Hillary fawning over her. The profound elitism and antipathy towards humanity which underlie the eugenicist's convictions align with her perfectly.

Out of curiosity, what makes a eugenicist less worthy of adulation than a slave-owner?

Nothing, especially given not all Eugenicists were motivated by race as it currently exists. While many were, Eugenicists like Sanger, HG Wells, Winston Churchill, George Bernard Shaw, and WEB DuBois were interested in weeding out genuine genetic problems, like inheritable diseases, and perceived genetic shortcomings, like poor eyesight, shortness, etc. We know today that its all BS and they were wrong in so many ways, but not all Eugenicists were racists.

They don't have to racists to be inhumane, which eugenics is. I actually find Sanger's views to be even more insidiously misanthropic than the older incarnations. She saw children as a burden for the poor, when they are actually the building blocks of family and society. The view that, instead of striving to address poverty, we should empower the impoverished to cull their own population out of 'concern' for their ability to support their children is a very ugly idea. If people were given access to resources so that their children could grow up to be productive contributors to the family, then that family would have risen out of poverty eventually. It was a shabby excuse to avoid supporting the lower classes through any sort of struggle.

Sanger also did support the voluntary sterilization of the 'feeble-minded' and 'defective'.

I mean, here's a sample.

"But while we close our gates to the so-called 'undesirables' from other countries, we make no attempt to discourage or cut down the rapid multiplication of the unfit and undesirable at home.

In fact through our archaic and inhuman laws against Birth Control informatlon the breeding of defectives and insane becomes a necessity. These types are being multiplied with break-neck rapidity and increasing far out of proportion to the normal and intelligent classes.

In 1923 over one billions of dollars were spent on state and federal charities for the care and maintenance and perpetuation of these undesirables. Year by year their numbers are mounting. Year by year their cost is increasing. Huge sums - yes, vast fortunes - are expended on these, while the normal parents and their children are compelled to shift for themselves and compete with each other."
http://birthcontrolreview.net...

She goes on to specify that these 'unidesirables' live at large and take advantage of the 'normal' people through charities and pauperizing institutions. This isn't a woman who sees value or human dignity in the lower classes or the impoverished. She speaks of them as if they were vermin. And she has no excuse; at this point several devastating critiques of eugenics have already been published which made most of the modern criticisms. Her crusade wasn't a noble endeavor, it was an abandonment, the callous treatment of huge numbers of fellow citizens as dead weight to be culled in one way or another, not given a leg up and some encouragement.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2016 3:25:42 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/12/2016 2:16:02 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/11/2016 10:17:15 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/11/2016 10:09:30 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/11/2016 9:23:45 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I mean, regardless of what else Sanger believed and accomplished, she was a eugenicist. Any adulation of her from anyone on the left ought to be tempered by that fact.

Though I'm not at all surprised to see Hillary fawning over her. The profound elitism and antipathy towards humanity which underlie the eugenicist's convictions align with her perfectly.

Out of curiosity, what makes a eugenicist less worthy of adulation than a slave-owner?

Nothing, especially given not all Eugenicists were motivated by race as it currently exists. While many were, Eugenicists like Sanger, HG Wells, Winston Churchill, George Bernard Shaw, and WEB DuBois were interested in weeding out genuine genetic problems, like inheritable diseases, and perceived genetic shortcomings, like poor eyesight, shortness, etc. We know today that its all BS and they were wrong in so many ways, but not all Eugenicists were racists.

They don't have to racists to be inhumane, which eugenics is. I actually find Sanger's views to be even more insidiously misanthropic than the older incarnations. She saw children as a burden for the poor, when they are actually the building blocks of family and society. The view that, instead of striving to address poverty, we should empower the impoverished to cull their own population out of 'concern' for their ability to support their children is a very ugly idea. If people were given access to resources so that their children could grow up to be productive contributors to the family, then that family would have risen out of poverty eventually. It was a shabby excuse to avoid supporting the lower classes through any sort of struggle.

Sanger also did support the voluntary sterilization of the 'feeble-minded' and 'defective'.

I mean, here's a sample.

"But while we close our gates to the so-called 'undesirables' from other countries, we make no attempt to discourage or cut down the rapid multiplication of the unfit and undesirable at home.

In fact through our archaic and inhuman laws against Birth Control informatlon the breeding of defectives and insane becomes a necessity. These types are being multiplied with break-neck rapidity and increasing far out of proportion to the normal and intelligent classes.

In 1923 over one billions of dollars were spent on state and federal charities for the care and maintenance and perpetuation of these undesirables. Year by year their numbers are mounting. Year by year their cost is increasing. Huge sums - yes, vast fortunes - are expended on these, while the normal parents and their children are compelled to shift for themselves and compete with each other."
http://birthcontrolreview.net...

She goes on to specify that these 'unidesirables' live at large and take advantage of the 'normal' people through charities and pauperizing institutions. This isn't a woman who sees value or human dignity in the lower classes or the impoverished. She speaks of them as if they were vermin. And she has no excuse; at this point several devastating critiques of eugenics have already been published which made most of the modern criticisms. Her crusade wasn't a noble endeavor, it was an abandonment, the callous treatment of huge numbers of fellow citizens as dead weight to be culled in one way or another, not given a leg up and some encouragement.

I both agree and disagree with you on this one.
Sanger only supported sterilization for those who were not mentally capable of understanding their actions. Beyond that, she was actually well known in the Eugenics movement for opposing an overall policy of forced sterilization, which was heavily promoted by many in the movement. She advocated family planning and education as alternatives.
And I feel you misrepresent her views on birth control in poor communities. Sanger actually believed that it was vital to get birth control info to the poor because the wealthy and the educated were already able to make family planning decisions, while the poor lacked this ability and this made it even harder on them, as in an industrial society, children are not always net benefits to families, and are often a burden on who struggle financially (this is money management 101). Sanger also advocated for better welfare programs and wages for working people, although birth control was a very personal issue for her as her mother died in Childbirth.
Besides those two points, I don't disagree with you, and this is exactly why Eugenics was discredited long ago but is somehow making a comeback with Transhumanism.
Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/13/2016 3:43:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago

Ah, so she didn't actually say what you quoted, but you've put together some words she allegedly said. Well let's just take the first one. Here's a link to the text you allege has those words from Sanger in it: https://babel.hathitrust.org...

I don't see them at the cited pages (172 and 174). Please feel free to screenshot and highlight them for us.

This is two attempts from you to falsely quote someone. I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to take you seriously regarding any other supposed quotes.
Obviously you don't like the evidence provided because it puts Planned parenthood, Birth control and Margaret Sanger in a less than favorable light. This evidence that I gave puts Margaret Sanger and Hitler's efforts to produce a superior race in the same league working towards the same ends.
I will provide another source for evidence of what Margaret Sanger's sentiments were.
"Margaret Sanger, "High Lights in the History of Birth Control," Oct 1923.
Published Article. Source: The Thinker Oct. 1923, pp. 59-61. , Margaret Sanger Microflm C16:0201 . "
THE PUBLIC Writing and speeches of Margaret Sanger
".......Meanwhile Birth Control, as the slogan of the movement, not only spread through the American press from coast to coast, but immediately gained currency in Great Britain. Succinctly and with telling brevity these two words sum up our whole philosophy. Birth Control does not mean contraception indiscriminately practised. It means the release and cultivation of the better elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks--those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization....."
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2016 3:05:55 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/13/2016 3:43:49 PM, Lookingatissues wrote:

Ah, so she didn't actually say what you quoted, but you've put together some words she allegedly said. Well let's just take the first one. Here's a link to the text you allege has those words from Sanger in it: https://babel.hathitrust.org...

I don't see them at the cited pages (172 and 174). Please feel free to screenshot and highlight them for us.

This is two attempts from you to falsely quote someone. I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to take you seriously regarding any other supposed quotes.
Obviously you don't like the evidence provided because it puts Planned parenthood, Birth control and Margaret Sanger in a less than favorable light. This evidence that I gave puts Margaret Sanger and Hitler's efforts to produce a superior race in the same league working towards the same ends.
I will provide another source for evidence of what Margaret Sanger's sentiments were.
"Margaret Sanger, "High Lights in the History of Birth Control," Oct 1923.
Published Article. Source: The Thinker Oct. 1923, pp. 59-61. , Margaret Sanger Microflm C16:0201 . "
THE PUBLIC Writing and speeches of Margaret Sanger
".......Meanwhile Birth Control, as the slogan of the movement, not only spread through the American press from coast to coast, but immediately gained currency in Great Britain. Succinctly and with telling brevity these two words sum up our whole philosophy. Birth Control does not mean contraception indiscriminately practised. It means the release and cultivation of the better elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks--those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization....."

Sorry, what part of that is objectionable?
Lookingatissues
Posts: 239
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 2:40:27 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Burzmali wrote:
. It means the release and cultivation of the better elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks--those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization....."

Burzmali asked t: Sorry, what part of that is objectionable?
lookingattheissues reply to

The objection who determines who is worthy to live and who is not worthy, someone gets to play God, who among us has that wisdom. Should someone be allowed to decide that you ,or your family members aren't the right kind of human beings to be allowed to live and propagate.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 1:48:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 2:40:27 AM, Lookingatissues wrote:
Burzmali wrote:
. It means the release and cultivation of the better elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks--those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization....."

Burzmali asked t: Sorry, what part of that is objectionable?
lookingattheissues reply to

The objection who determines who is worthy to live and who is not worthy, someone gets to play God, who among us has that wisdom. Should someone be allowed to decide that you ,or your family members aren't the right kind of human beings to be allowed to live and propagate.

The whole of Sanger's writing makes it clear that she meant for the individual to make those kinds of decisions for herself. Two paragraphs down from what you quoted, in the same article:

"We are not, I must repeat, trying to force this doctrine upon the American public. Every day thousands of poor mothers are begging us for help, fully conscious that their sacred duty to the children they have already brought into the world demands that they shall not assume further parental responsibilities which they cannot fulfil. It is in answer to those unfortunate and conscripted mothers that we have banded ourselves together in the American Birth Control League."

https://www.nyu.edu...

It seems you're just trying to slander a woman you don't know much about. Either you're deliberately quote mining this stuff yourself, or you're like a sheep repeating the, sometimes false, claims of others.

Got any other fake quotes, or real ones with no context? Or can you admit that Sanger isn't the boogeyman you seem to think she is?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2016 8:34:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/10/2016 6:54:12 PM, CRandy wrote:
Margaret Sanger said these following words: "Colored people are like human weeds and need to be exterminated". Hillary Clinton said these following words about Sanger: "I admire Margaret Sanger enormously, her courage, her tenacity, her vision". Hillary enormously admires a woman who believes that black people should be destroyed. That is disgusting.
People want to talk about Donald Trump and the KKK. Hillary is just as racist as Trump and people need to be made aware of it. Sadly, it's possible that many people are aware of it but don't care. If that is true, I feel sorry for those people.

Hillary is the most racist liberal I've ever seen. Plantation politics at work from the plantation house throne...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...