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Trump does not "tell it like it is"

twocupcakes
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8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly
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twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/14/2016 2:02:13 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie.

Trump is a fraud. Clinton is a greater fraud than he could possibly hope to be. Claiming Clinton is a moderate liberal harms your credibility. She is a closer confidant to Saul Alinsky than is Obama. She is a radical Marxist. How far left are you to think her moderate?
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/14/2016 2:12:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:02:13 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie.

Trump is a fraud. Clinton is a greater fraud than he could possibly hope to be. Claiming Clinton is a moderate liberal harms your credibility. She is a closer confidant to Saul Alinsky than is Obama. She is a radical Marxist. How far left are you to think her moderate?

I fail to see how she is a radical marxist. She is much more conservative than Bernie Sanders. In fact, Bernie seemed to force her to be more left. Throughout her career she never has been the most progressive democrat.

Hillary is by no means a shining example of integrity. You could say that Clinton is a fraud. However, I do not think she is a greater fraud than Trump. In fact, I think the only way she looks good is when compared to Trump.

Hillary has been scrutinized for her whole career. In Trump's short time as a politician, he has already lied more than Hillary. I mean what are examples of lies that Hillary has said that Trump also is not guilty of?

I aim was not so much to defend Hillary (compared to many politicians, Clinton does not look great). I just think Trump is much much worse when it comes to lying. The fact that some people think Trump "tells it like it is" is a testament to Trump's ability to lie.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/14/2016 2:19:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:12:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:02:13 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie.

Trump is a fraud. Clinton is a greater fraud than he could possibly hope to be. Claiming Clinton is a moderate liberal harms your credibility. She is a closer confidant to Saul Alinsky than is Obama. She is a radical Marxist. How far left are you to think her moderate?

I fail to see how she is a radical marxist. She is much more conservative than Bernie Sanders. In fact, Bernie seemed to force her to be more left. Throughout her career she never has been the most progressive democrat.

Hillary is by no means a shining example of integrity. You could say that Clinton is a fraud. However, I do not think she is a greater fraud than Trump. In fact, I think the only way she looks good is when compared to Trump.

Hillary has been scrutinized for her whole career. In Trump's short time as a politician, he has already lied more than Hillary. I mean what are examples of lies that Hillary has said that Trump also is not guilty of?

I aim was not so much to defend Hillary (compared to many politicians, Clinton does not look great). I just think Trump is much much worse when it comes to lying. The fact that some people think Trump "tells it like it is" is a testament to Trump's ability to lie.

Well we're just not going to agree on what Hillary is nor what Trump is.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/14/2016 2:23:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:19:53 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:12:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:02:13 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie.

Trump is a fraud. Clinton is a greater fraud than he could possibly hope to be. Claiming Clinton is a moderate liberal harms your credibility. She is a closer confidant to Saul Alinsky than is Obama. She is a radical Marxist. How far left are you to think her moderate?

I fail to see how she is a radical marxist. She is much more conservative than Bernie Sanders. In fact, Bernie seemed to force her to be more left. Throughout her career she never has been the most progressive democrat.

Hillary is by no means a shining example of integrity. You could say that Clinton is a fraud. However, I do not think she is a greater fraud than Trump. In fact, I think the only way she looks good is when compared to Trump.

Hillary has been scrutinized for her whole career. In Trump's short time as a politician, he has already lied more than Hillary. I mean what are examples of lies that Hillary has said that Trump also is not guilty of?

I aim was not so much to defend Hillary (compared to many politicians, Clinton does not look great). I just think Trump is much much worse when it comes to lying. The fact that some people think Trump "tells it like it is" is a testament to Trump's ability to lie.

Well we're just not going to agree on what Hillary is nor what Trump is.

If you think Hilllary is a Marxist, what do you think Bernie Sanders is?

I think we both agree that Trump is a fraud.
Throwback
Posts: 421
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8/14/2016 2:28:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:23:32 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:19:53 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:12:29 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:02:13 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie.

Trump is a fraud. Clinton is a greater fraud than he could possibly hope to be. Claiming Clinton is a moderate liberal harms your credibility. She is a closer confidant to Saul Alinsky than is Obama. She is a radical Marxist. How far left are you to think her moderate?

I fail to see how she is a radical marxist. She is much more conservative than Bernie Sanders. In fact, Bernie seemed to force her to be more left. Throughout her career she never has been the most progressive democrat.

Hillary is by no means a shining example of integrity. You could say that Clinton is a fraud. However, I do not think she is a greater fraud than Trump. In fact, I think the only way she looks good is when compared to Trump.

Hillary has been scrutinized for her whole career. In Trump's short time as a politician, he has already lied more than Hillary. I mean what are examples of lies that Hillary has said that Trump also is not guilty of?

I aim was not so much to defend Hillary (compared to many politicians, Clinton does not look great). I just think Trump is much much worse when it comes to lying. The fact that some people think Trump "tells it like it is" is a testament to Trump's ability to lie.

Well we're just not going to agree on what Hillary is nor what Trump is.

If you think Hilllary is a Marxist, what do you think Bernie Sanders is?

I think we both agree that Trump is a fraud.

I meant we will not agree on the degree of fraud. We will never agree that Hillary is a much greater fraud than Trump. We will never agree on Hillary's Marxism, as you deny it. Simply thinking Trump a fraud does not meat I agree he is worse than her; he isn't. Also, her Mao suits are way too revealing for her attractive figure. See? I'm a rabid sexist to boot!
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/14/2016 2:47:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

'Tell it like it is' is about bluntness, not the veracity of his statements or even honesty. When someone says that about Trump, they're praising his plain speech and disregard for political taboos. Inaccurate statements also don't hurt his credibility among supporters if they feel in on the joke. Imagine if you and a friend play a practical joke on someone; the shared deception strengthens that bond of perceived trust it doesn't diminish it. That's exactly what happens when, for example, Trump bullsh!ts about religion: most of the people who support Trump dislike the religious right, so the overall feeling is one of duping a common enemy.

No one, on the other hand, feels that way about Clinton, because there's no sense of camaraderie. Clinton is closed off; her deceptions seem more self-serving and exploitative compared to Trump's informal, jovial nature.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,633
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8/14/2016 3:16:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

wtf I hate trump now
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/14/2016 3:27:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie. : :

There's no such thing as stretching the truth. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both liars but Hillary Clinton has been under investigation for several crimes during her 30 years of being a politician and she is currently being investigated for security fraud and just now being checked out for money laundering while she was the Secretary of State.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/14/2016 4:08:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 2:47:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

'Tell it like it is' is about bluntness, not the veracity of his statements or even honesty. When someone says that about Trump, they're praising his plain speech and disregard for political taboos. Inaccurate statements also don't hurt his credibility among supporters if they feel in on the joke. Imagine if you and a friend play a practical joke on someone; the shared deception strengthens that bond of perceived trust it doesn't diminish it. That's exactly what happens when, for example, Trump bullsh!ts about religion: most of the people who support Trump dislike the religious right, so the overall feeling is one of duping a common enemy.

WTF? You think "tell it like it is" is about bluntness, not honesty or veracity?!?! Bluntness, veracity, and honesty are synonyms (1).

This is the exact stupidity that I am pointing about. Trump supporters may not use "tell it like it is" to mean honesty or accuracy, but that is what "tell it like it is" means. Just because someone says really simple sh!t, does not mean they are "telling it like it is", especially when these statements are not honest or accurate.

Any objective person would (regardless of political affiliation) agree that inaccurate statements damage credibility. Period. The reason Trump can get away with it is because his supporters are blinded by desperation. They are clearly being fed snake oil, and they fail to see they are being led by a con man. Trump supporters are not "in" on the joke. They are the joke. Like people who sign up for Trump University, Trump is taking advantage of them for his own gain.

(1) http://www.thesaurus.com...

http://www.thesaurus.com...

No one, on the other hand, feels that way about Clinton, because there's no sense of camaraderie. Clinton is closed off; her deceptions seem more self-serving and exploitative compared to Trump's informal, jovial nature.

No one feels that way about Clinton supporters, because (unlike Trump supporters) Clinton supporters are not desperate, gullible, mindless dunmbuucks, who blindly support their "Dear Leader".
twocupcakes
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8/14/2016 4:44:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 3:27:11 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie. : :

There's no such thing as stretching the truth. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both liars but Hillary Clinton has been under investigation for several crimes during her 30 years of being a politician and she is currently being investigated for security fraud and just now being checked out for money laundering while she was the Secretary of State.

There are definitley degrees of lies. My point is that they both embellish to make themselves look better.

However, Trump is the only one saying he saw things (like the Iran Cash) that do not exist, and saying conspiracy theories like Ted Cruz's dad was friends with the unabomber, that he saw Muslims celebrating 9-11. Trump also seems to lie more frequently.
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/14/2016 5:06:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 4:44:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 3:27:11 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie. : :

There's no such thing as stretching the truth. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both liars but Hillary Clinton has been under investigation for several crimes during her 30 years of being a politician and she is currently being investigated for security fraud and just now being checked out for money laundering while she was the Secretary of State.

There are definitley degrees of lies. My point is that they both embellish to make themselves look better.

Doesn't any politician embellish to make themselves look better to get elected?

However, Trump is the only one saying he saw things (like the Iran Cash) that do not exist, and saying conspiracy theories like Ted Cruz's dad was friends with the unabomber, that he saw Muslims celebrating 9-11. Trump also seems to lie more frequently. : :

It was reported that many people observed groups of Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks. Donald Trump was just one of the many who saw that happen on some news channel right after it happened. Donald Trump was only repeating stories that were written by journalists. Is it wrong for him to do that?
twocupcakes
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8/14/2016 5:11:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 5:06:25 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/14/2016 4:44:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 3:27:11 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie. : :

There's no such thing as stretching the truth. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both liars but Hillary Clinton has been under investigation for several crimes during her 30 years of being a politician and she is currently being investigated for security fraud and just now being checked out for money laundering while she was the Secretary of State.

There are definitley degrees of lies. My point is that they both embellish to make themselves look better.

Doesn't any politician embellish to make themselves look better to get elected?

My point is that Trump does it more than the average one.

However, Trump is the only one saying he saw things (like the Iran Cash) that do not exist, and saying conspiracy theories like Ted Cruz's dad was friends with the unabomber, that he saw Muslims celebrating 9-11. Trump also seems to lie more frequently. : :

It was reported that many people observed groups of Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks. Donald Trump was just one of the many who saw that happen on some news channel right after it happened. Donald Trump was only repeating stories that were written by journalists. Is it wrong for him to do that?

Where was it reported? Because, no one can find any news clips of that turning up?

Trump says that he saw this with his own eyes on television and that it was well covered. But an extensive examination of news clips from that period turns up nothing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...
Skepsikyma
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8/14/2016 5:25:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 4:08:34 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 2:47:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

'Tell it like it is' is about bluntness, not the veracity of his statements or even honesty. When someone says that about Trump, they're praising his plain speech and disregard for political taboos. Inaccurate statements also don't hurt his credibility among supporters if they feel in on the joke. Imagine if you and a friend play a practical joke on someone; the shared deception strengthens that bond of perceived trust it doesn't diminish it. That's exactly what happens when, for example, Trump bullsh!ts about religion: most of the people who support Trump dislike the religious right, so the overall feeling is one of duping a common enemy.

WTF? You think "tell it like it is" is about bluntness, not honesty or veracity?!?! Bluntness, veracity, and honesty are synonyms (1).

blunt
adj. blunt"er, blunt"est
2.
a. Abrupt and often disconcertingly frank in speech: "People [in the Western US] are blunt with one another, sometimes even cruel, believing honesty is stronger medicine than sympathy" (Gretel Ehrlich). See Synonyms at gruff.
b. Stark; unadorned: "The blunt truth ... is that he is devoid of political courage" (Jeff Jacoby).

Clearly I was referencing the second definition, as I was making a distinction between honesty, and I used the euphemism 'plain speech' later on to describe what I was talking about. But if purposely misconstruing what I meant makes you feel better, please don't allow me to interrupt. My point was that Trump may not always be honest about his positions, but he is blunt and plainspoken when he's criticizing people or ideas. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

This is the exact stupidity that I am pointing about. Trump supporters may not use "tell it like it is" to mean honesty or accuracy, but that is what "tell it like it is" means. Just because someone says really simple sh!t, does not mean they are "telling it like it is", especially when these statements are not honest or accurate.

Learn to read, pls.

Any objective person would (regardless of political affiliation) agree that inaccurate statements damage credibility. Period.

Wow, that's a convincing argument (not).

The reason Trump can get away with it is because his supporters are blinded by desperation. They are clearly being fed snake oil, and they fail to see they are being led by a con man. Trump supporters are not "in" on the joke. They are the joke. Like people who sign up for Trump University, Trump is taking advantage of them for his own gain.

As I said, this is why I don't argue with ideologues. As a rule of thumb, anyone who thinks that everyone else who disagrees with them on a certain point is an idiot ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

(1) http://www.thesaurus.com...

http://www.thesaurus.com...

You do realize that the list of words on a synonyms page can still have different connotations and nuances in definition, correct? That's why we, you know, have different words for them.

No one, on the other hand, feels that way about Clinton, because there's no sense of camaraderie. Clinton is closed off; her deceptions seem more self-serving and exploitative compared to Trump's informal, jovial nature.

No one feels that way about Clinton supporters, because (unlike Trump supporters) Clinton supporters are not desperate, gullible, mindless dunmbuucks, who blindly support their "Dear Leader".

Lol, keep arbitrarily claiming that intellectual high ground and condescending to thousands of people whom you've never met. It isn't desperate or pathetic in the slightest.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
willbedone
Posts: 127
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8/14/2016 6:03:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 5:11:26 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 5:06:25 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/14/2016 4:44:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 3:27:11 PM, willbedone wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:59:24 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Does Hillary actually lie more than Trump. I am pretty sure that Trump lies more. Further, while Hillary Clinton stretches the truth, Trump just blatantly makes sh!t up. For example, Trump claimed to have seen $400 million in cash going to Iran, before being proven wrong and forced to admit he made it up.

Clinton has been more consistent than Trump on Policy. Clinton is a Moderate Liberal. She is never the first to take on a progressive issue, but not the last. Trump on the other hand has been all over the map on policy. He has been for conservative social issues, and liberal on social issues, he has wanted taxes on the rich to go up and down, he wanted minimum wage to go up and down.

You say Clinton constantly lies, but for every lie she tells, Trump tells a worse lie. : :

There's no such thing as stretching the truth. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both liars but Hillary Clinton has been under investigation for several crimes during her 30 years of being a politician and she is currently being investigated for security fraud and just now being checked out for money laundering while she was the Secretary of State.

There are definitley degrees of lies. My point is that they both embellish to make themselves look better.

Doesn't any politician embellish to make themselves look better to get elected?

My point is that Trump does it more than the average one.

Good for him. I could care less who much Donald Trump embellishes himself.

However, Trump is the only one saying he saw things (like the Iran Cash) that do not exist, and saying conspiracy theories like Ted Cruz's dad was friends with the unabomber, that he saw Muslims celebrating 9-11. Trump also seems to lie more frequently. : :

It was reported that many people observed groups of Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks. Donald Trump was just one of the many who saw that happen on some news channel right after it happened. Donald Trump was only repeating stories that were written by journalists. Is it wrong for him to do that?

Where was it reported? Because, no one can find any news clips of that turning up?

Do you know how easy it is to delete video feeds?

Trump says that he saw this with his own eyes on television and that it was well covered. But an extensive examination of news clips from that period turns up nothing.

There have been many people who have come forward to say they watched the same video feeds of Muslim groups celebrating as the towers were falling down. It's very easy to delete video feeds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...
twocupcakes
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8/14/2016 6:11:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago

blunt
adj. blunt"er, blunt"est
2.
a. Abrupt and often disconcertingly frank in speech: "People [in the Western US] are blunt with one another, sometimes even cruel, believing honesty is stronger medicine than sympathy" (Gretel Ehrlich). See Synonyms at gruff.
b. Stark; unadorned: "The blunt truth ... is that he is devoid of political courage" (Jeff Jacoby).

Clearly I was referencing the second definition, as I was making a distinction between honesty, and I used the euphemism 'plain speech' later on to describe what I was talking about. But if purposely misconstruing what I meant makes you feel better, please don't allow me to interrupt. My point was that Trump may not always be honest about his positions, but he is blunt and plainspoken when he's criticizing people or ideas. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

As I said before, speaking plainly and saying really simple sh!t, does not mean someone "tells it like it is". Saying false nonsense in plainspeak, does not mean some "tells it like it is".

This is the exact stupidity that I am pointing about. Trump supporters may not use "tell it like it is" to mean honesty or accuracy, but that is what "tell it like it is" means. Just because someone says really simple sh!t, does not mean they are "telling it like it is", especially when these statements are not honest or accurate.

Learn to read, pls.

What did I miss? Clearly talking simply does not mean "tell it like it is". Look up the definition of the idiom "tell it like it is", and they all have to do with honesty and the truth.

Speak frankly.; Tell the truth no matter who is criticized or how much it hurts.

to describe a situation honestly, not avoiding any of the unpleasant details

Speak the truth, no matter how unpleasant.

Any objective person would (regardless of political affiliation) agree that inaccurate statements damage credibility. Period.

Wow, that's a convincing argument (not).

Why is it not convincing. You disagree that saying inaccurate statements damages credibility, and you think I am the zealot?

The reason Trump can get away with it is because his supporters are blinded by desperation. They are clearly being fed snake oil, and they fail to see they are being led by a con man. Trump supporters are not "in" on the joke. They are the joke. Like people who sign up for Trump University, Trump is taking advantage of them for his own gain.

As I said, this is why I don't argue with ideologues. As a rule of thumb, anyone who thinks that everyone else who disagrees with them on a certain point is an idiot ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Your argument that Trump supporters are "in on the joke", makes no sense. You say that you are "in on the joke", that Trump cares about christian conservative values. Trump picked Mike Pence as his VP. He promised to put in judges with conservative christian values. He wants to overturn Roe versus Wade. You think this is just a joke!?

There are plenty of people who are supporting Trump who think that Trump actually will fight for conservative christian values, and that they are "in on the joke" that Trump is pandering to the non-religious. This is one reason why Trump does not "tell it like it is". Everyone supporter thinks that Trump shares the sames values as them, and is not serious when he says otherwise.

(1) http://www.thesaurus.com...

http://www.thesaurus.com...

You do realize that the list of words on a synonyms page can still have different connotations and nuances in definition, correct? That's why we, you know, have different words for them.

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that you mean "plainspeak" when you talk about bluntness, not honesty ect.

No one, on the other hand, feels that way about Clinton, because there's no sense of camaraderie. Clinton is closed off; her deceptions seem more self-serving and exploitative compared to Trump's informal, jovial nature.

No one feels that way about Clinton supporters, because (unlike Trump supporters) Clinton supporters are not desperate, gullible, mindless dunmbuucks, who blindly support their "Dear Leader".

Lol, keep arbitrarily claiming that intellectual high ground and condescending to thousands of people whom you've never met. It isn't desperate or pathetic in the slightest.

Keep living in a delusional world where Trump is "the messiah". The fact is that the unlike Trump supporters, Clinton supporters do not support her to get a religious cult like sense of camaraderie. Trump has played on desperate people before. That is how he gets people to sign up to Trump University. He is doing it again now to get the Presidency.

You say I am condescending, but Trump is just as condescending to his working class supporters as anyone.

'My entire life, I've watched politicians bragging about how poor they are, how they came from nothing, how poor their parents and grandparents were. And I said to myself, if they can stay so poor for so many generations, maybe this isn't the kind of person we want to be electing to higher office," Trump told the New York Times' Maureen Dowd. "How smart can they be? They're morons."


http://www.ibtimes.com...
twocupcakes
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8/14/2016 6:11:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago

blunt
adj. blunt"er, blunt"est
2.
a. Abrupt and often disconcertingly frank in speech: "People [in the Western US] are blunt with one another, sometimes even cruel, believing honesty is stronger medicine than sympathy" (Gretel Ehrlich). See Synonyms at gruff.
b. Stark; unadorned: "The blunt truth ... is that he is devoid of political courage" (Jeff Jacoby).

Clearly I was referencing the second definition, as I was making a distinction between honesty, and I used the euphemism 'plain speech' later on to describe what I was talking about. But if purposely misconstruing what I meant makes you feel better, please don't allow me to interrupt. My point was that Trump may not always be honest about his positions, but he is blunt and plainspoken when he's criticizing people or ideas. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

As I said before, speaking plainly and saying really simple sh!t, does not mean someone "tells it like it is". Saying false nonsense in plainspeak, does not mean some "tells it like it is".

This is the exact stupidity that I am pointing about. Trump supporters may not use "tell it like it is" to mean honesty or accuracy, but that is what "tell it like it is" means. Just because someone says really simple sh!t, does not mean they are "telling it like it is", especially when these statements are not honest or accurate.

Learn to read, pls.

What did I miss? Clearly talking simply does not mean "tell it like it is". Look up the definition of the idiom "tell it like it is", and they all have to do with honesty and the truth.

Speak frankly.; Tell the truth no matter who is criticized or how much it hurts.

to describe a situation honestly, not avoiding any of the unpleasant details

Speak the truth, no matter how unpleasant.

Any objective person would (regardless of political affiliation) agree that inaccurate statements damage credibility. Period.

Wow, that's a convincing argument (not).

Why is it not convincing. You disagree that saying inaccurate statements damages credibility, and you think I am the zealot?

The reason Trump can get away with it is because his supporters are blinded by desperation. They are clearly being fed snake oil, and they fail to see they are being led by a con man. Trump supporters are not "in" on the joke. They are the joke. Like people who sign up for Trump University, Trump is taking advantage of them for his own gain.

As I said, this is why I don't argue with ideologues. As a rule of thumb, anyone who thinks that everyone else who disagrees with them on a certain point is an idiot ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Your argument that Trump supporters are "in on the joke", makes no sense. You say that you are "in on the joke", that Trump cares about christian conservative values. Trump picked Mike Pence as his VP. He promised to put in judges with conservative christian values. He wants to overturn Roe versus Wade. You think this is just a joke!?

There are plenty of people who are supporting Trump who think that Trump actually will fight for conservative christian values, and that they are "in on the joke" that Trump is pandering to the non-religious. This is one reason why Trump does not "tell it like it is". Everyone supporter thinks that Trump shares the sames values as them, and is not serious when he says otherwise.

(1) http://www.thesaurus.com...

http://www.thesaurus.com...

You do realize that the list of words on a synonyms page can still have different connotations and nuances in definition, correct? That's why we, you know, have different words for them.

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that you mean "plainspeak" when you talk about bluntness, not honesty ect.

No one, on the other hand, feels that way about Clinton, because there's no sense of camaraderie. Clinton is closed off; her deceptions seem more self-serving and exploitative compared to Trump's informal, jovial nature.

No one feels that way about Clinton supporters, because (unlike Trump supporters) Clinton supporters are not desperate, gullible, mindless dunmbuucks, who blindly support their "Dear Leader".

Lol, keep arbitrarily claiming that intellectual high ground and condescending to thousands of people whom you've never met. It isn't desperate or pathetic in the slightest.

Keep living in a delusional world where Trump is "the messiah". The fact is that the unlike Trump supporters, Clinton supporters do not support her to get a religious cult like sense of camaraderie. Trump has played on desperate people before. That is how he gets people to sign up to Trump University. He is doing it again now to get the Presidency.

You say I am condescending, but Trump is just as condescending to his working class supporters as anyone.

'My entire life, I've watched politicians bragging about how poor they are, how they came from nothing, how poor their parents and grandparents were. And I said to myself, if they can stay so poor for so many generations, maybe this isn't the kind of person we want to be electing to higher office," Trump told the New York Times' Maureen Dowd. "How smart can they be? They're morons."


http://www.ibtimes.com...
Death23
Posts: 779
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8/14/2016 6:28:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Here's Trump:

http://www.politifact.com...

Here's Clinton:

http://www.politifact.com...

This indicates that Trump is lying more than Clinton.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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8/14/2016 6:32:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:28:43 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:54:12 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.


Well better than hillary clinton who just lies constantly

Here's Trump:

http://www.politifact.com...

Here's Clinton:

http://www.politifact.com...

This indicates that Trump is lying more than Clinton.

Stop using facts

Anyway when clinton lies its more often really important things such as scandals
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/15/2016 1:48:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 6:11:27 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

blunt
adj. blunt"er, blunt"est
2.
a. Abrupt and often disconcertingly frank in speech: "People [in the Western US] are blunt with one another, sometimes even cruel, believing honesty is stronger medicine than sympathy" (Gretel Ehrlich). See Synonyms at gruff.
b. Stark; unadorned: "The blunt truth ... is that he is devoid of political courage" (Jeff Jacoby).

Clearly I was referencing the second definition, as I was making a distinction between honesty, and I used the euphemism 'plain speech' later on to describe what I was talking about. But if purposely misconstruing what I meant makes you feel better, please don't allow me to interrupt. My point was that Trump may not always be honest about his positions, but he is blunt and plainspoken when he's criticizing people or ideas. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

As I said before, speaking plainly and saying really simple sh!t, does not mean someone "tells it like it is". Saying false nonsense in plainspeak, does not mean some "tells it like it is".
I'll try to boil it down as simply as possible:

Bob has a reputation for spinning tall tales and exaggerating anecdotes.

Bob also has a reputation for making bluntly honest assessments of people's character.

Bob, even though he is not a fully honest person in all respects, could still be said to 'tell it like it is'.

Similarly, while Trump may flip flop on policy, he can still 'tell it like it is' in the sense that he's bluntly honest in his assessment of people.

Your argument is analogous to saying that I cannot call someone leprous if they are only partly infected.

This is the exact stupidity that I am pointing about. Trump supporters may not use "tell it like it is" to mean honesty or accuracy, but that is what "tell it like it is" means. Just because someone says really simple sh!t, does not mean they are "telling it like it is", especially when these statements are not honest or accurate.

Learn to read, pls.

What did I miss? Clearly talking simply does not mean "tell it like it is". Look up the definition of the idiom "tell it like it is", and they all have to do with honesty and the truth.

Speak frankly.; Tell the truth no matter who is criticized or how much it hurts.

to describe a situation honestly, not avoiding any of the unpleasant details

Speak the truth, no matter how unpleasant.

And you continue to act as if, in order for the idiom to be applied, the person must be a paragon of honesty. That's not how words, or people, work.

Any objective person would (regardless of political affiliation) agree that inaccurate statements damage credibility. Period.

Wow, that's a convincing argument (not).

Why is it not convincing. You disagree that saying inaccurate statements damages credibility, and you think I am the zealot?

You didn't make an argument, I was being sarcastic. And I already said that, and made an argument in support of it several posts back. Your response to that argument was to basically define 'objective person' as 'someone who agrees with me', and then argue that, somehow, because everyone who is 'objective' (read: agrees with you) agrees with you, you are right.

The reason Trump can get away with it is because his supporters are blinded by desperation. They are clearly being fed snake oil, and they fail to see they are being led by a con man. Trump supporters are not "in" on the joke. They are the joke. Like people who sign up for Trump University, Trump is taking advantage of them for his own gain.

As I said, this is why I don't argue with ideologues. As a rule of thumb, anyone who thinks that everyone else who disagrees with them on a certain point is an idiot ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Your argument that Trump supporters are "in on the joke", makes no sense. You say that you are "in on the joke", that Trump cares about christian conservative values. Trump picked Mike Pence as his VP. He promised to put in judges with conservative christian values. He wants to overturn Roe versus Wade. You think this is just a joke!?

Have you seen him talk about religion? 'My second favorite book is art of the deal, after the Bible *sh!t eating grin*'

At Liberty university, he called 'second Corinthians' 'two Corinthians'.

And, the icing on the cake, he said that he's never asked God for forgiveness, which is sort of the whole fvcking central point behind the savior of the religion being nailed to a cross and resurrected.

That's how I know that he's not seriously religious, lol.

And if you think that ANY of those nominees will make it through a Democrat-controlled senate after Garland, you're on something. Trump realizes this, so he can promise the righties anything they want, then blame the Democrats and spin a moderate nominee as 'deal-making'.

There are plenty of people who are supporting Trump who think that Trump actually will fight for conservative christian values, and that they are "in on the joke" that Trump is pandering to the non-religious. This is one reason why Trump does not "tell it like it is". Everyone supporter thinks that Trump shares the sames values as them, and is not serious when he says otherwise.

Anyone who thinks that a man who 'has never asked God for forgiveness' is a devout Christian is a useful idiot.

No one, on the other hand, feels that way about Clinton, because there's no sense of camaraderie. Clinton is closed off; her deceptions seem more self-serving and exploitative compared to Trump's informal, jovial nature.

No one feels that way about Clinton supporters, because (unlike Trump supporters) Clinton supporters are not desperate, gullible, mindless dunmbuucks, who blindly support their "Dear Leader".

Lol, keep arbitrarily claiming that intellectual high ground and condescending to thousands of people whom you've never met. It isn't desperate or pathetic in the slightest.

Keep living in a delusional world where Trump is "the messiah". The fact is that the unlike Trump supporters, Clinton supporters do not support her to get a religious cult like sense of camaraderie. Trump has played on desperate people before. That is how he gets people to sign up to Trump University. He is doing it again now to get the Presidency.

Maybe, just maybe, you should stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is irrational or stupid. I don't think that Trump is the messiah. I think he has serious flaws as a human being. I just think a lot of criticisms (he's not successful, he doesn't tell it like it is, he's a racist) are dumb.

You say I am condescending, but Trump is just as condescending to his working class supporters as anyone.

'My entire life, I've watched politicians bragging about how poor they are, how they came from nothing, how poor their parents and grandparents were. And I said to myself, if they can stay so poor for so many generations, maybe this isn't the kind of person we want to be electing to higher office," Trump told the New York Times' Maureen Dowd. "How smart can they be? They're morons."


Generally, working class people tend to value pulling oneself up by ones bootstraps and hard work. So, yeah, that kind of statement appeals to them.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Fly
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8/15/2016 1:44:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

We now have a presidential candidate who mocks the handicapped and former prisoners of war... finally...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
MakeSensePeopleDont
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8/15/2016 2:21:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

Well so do the democrats -- what's your point? I mean FFS, they are now to the point that every election cycle, they promise to give the nation absolutely everything for free. I'm just waiting for the promise "Delivery of your free product or service in 30 minutes or less or we hand you a Tubman." Man that sounds weird to say instead of a Jackson LOL.

At least Trump is a businessman and understands that negotiation means you don't get what you start with asking for. Democrats seem to think negotiating means ask for something completely insane, refuse to negotiate, call a press conference, blame the guys actually TRYING to negotiate, asserting THEY are the ones refusing to negotiate. Then to ensure you get EVERYTHING you want and more, close the White House doors in the faces of the 12 year old children that just rode a bus 6 hours to tour the people's house; followup by telling military vets with their legs blown off in Vietnam they can't see their own monument, then for sh!ts and giggles, call another presser and say the other guys closed all that stuff.
brontoraptor
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8/15/2016 3:36:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/14/2016 1:32:02 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Can we all agree that Trump does not "tell it like it is"? In fact, he is one of the furthest things from a "tell it like it is" candidate. More frequently than any other candidate Trump backtracks on what he said before, and is wishy-washy on issues. Here are some examples (there are a lot more than what is listed here)

Even Trump supporters admit that he takes outlandish positions for the purpose of "negotiation". THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A "TELL IT LIKE IT IS" CANDIDATE. A Politician who lies to get what he wants is the exact opposite of a "tell it like it is" candidate. You cannot have it both ways.

That's because he doesn't need a telaprompter to finish a complete sentence. When Hillary is off the prompter she looks likethe biggest jackas* before Congress on Benghazi and claims to have been under heavy sniper fire in Bosnia.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
000ike
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8/15/2016 3:36:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 1:48:48 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Similarly, while Trump may flip flop on policy, he can still 'tell it like it is' in the sense that he's bluntly honest in his assessment of people.

No he is not. Anyone who supports or endorses him is necessarily the greatest at what they do, the best in the world, and a consummately brilliant person in every respect. Anyone who is even mildly critical of him is a failure, a hack, and a fortiori, the worst at what they do (he had the audacity to call RBG, a justice of supreme court, leaps and bounds more brilliant and virtuous than he, incompetent). His public assessments of people are entirely circumstantial -- they're calculated to thoroughly discredit his critics and wholeheartedly embrace his friends and supporters. He will even occasionally vacillate between both extremes in assessing the same individual ... depending on what that individual is saying about him (e.g. ben carson -- who was called inept and incapable and other vile insults before he was close advisor and dear friend).

Trump is not a straight shooter and he does not tell it like it is ... there is absolutely no respect in which that is even partially correct. He is a conniving, word-smithing, politician like any other.

You are willfully blind. With the exception of one other prominent contributor to these forums, I have never seen someone so learned produce such an obscene amount of bullsh!t ... you have gone farther than many other Trump supporters in defending the most spurious narratives about the candidate's character and intelligence ... and it is, frankly, shameful and unacceptable.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,377
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8/15/2016 4:47:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
What Trump does is not really lying to people, it is something called salesmanship. i.e. You take into consideration what people want to hear, as well as the facts.
Unlike most of the politicians you see on TV, Mr. Trump does not have experience in local elections vying for less important offices, and then moving up to the more important ones.
What he has is the best public relations people working for him.
The principle is to make maximum use of the campaign promise i.e. there are a few months between election day and inauguration day. Thus a plan that has been sold to the voters before election day, will not fail or succeed until some time in the future.
So say you have a new immigration policy in which the law will be enforced and a wall will be built to keep them out., well who really knows if this can be done?
What is important is to believe in it.
Many voters want a government that will control it borders, so Muslim terrorists that were trained by Isis will not be able to come here and shoot Americans, nor will the Mexicans be able to come here, steal our jobs and bring their poverty with them.
By voting for a man who favors such a policy we can use our vote to show all those liberal pecker-heads who run our news industry what we think of them.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/15/2016 5:20:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 4:47:49 PM, xus00HAY wrote:
What Trump does is not really lying to people, it is something called salesmanship. i.e. You take into consideration what people want to hear, as well as the facts.
Unlike most of the politicians you see on TV, Mr. Trump does not have experience in local elections vying for less important offices, and then moving up to the more important ones.
What he has is the best public relations people working for him.
The principle is to make maximum use of the campaign promise i.e. there are a few months between election day and inauguration day. Thus a plan that has been sold to the voters before election day, will not fail or succeed until some time in the future.
So say you have a new immigration policy in which the law will be enforced and a wall will be built to keep them out., well who really knows if this can be done?
What is important is to believe in it.
Many voters want a government that will control it borders, so Muslim terrorists that were trained by Isis will not be able to come here and shoot Americans, nor will the Mexicans be able to come here, steal our jobs and bring their poverty with them.
By voting for a man who favors such a policy we can use our vote to show all those liberal pecker-heads who run our news industry what we think of them.

What liberals want you to forget is polls don't mean jack because Trump's supporters actually vote.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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8/15/2016 10:24:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/15/2016 3:36:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/15/2016 1:48:48 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
You are willfully blind. With the exception of one other prominent contributor to these forums, I have never seen someone so learned produce such an obscene amount of bullsh!t ... you have gone farther than many other Trump supporters in defending the most spurious narratives about the candidate's character and intelligence ... and it is, frankly, shameful and unacceptable.
ike's pearl clutching is well past bordering on sanctimony.

And by God it's annoying.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw