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Should we celebrate Columbus Day?

Hayd
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8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue
ThinkBig
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8/16/2016 3:18:05 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning

This is an interesting perspective. I agree that the Columbus holiday is stupid and should be abolished. Perhaps re-name it for Native Americans.
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triangle.128k
Posts: 3,630
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8/16/2016 4:02:19 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

He also was the first brave explorer to lead the way to unknown territory. Natives can protest all they want, but the US would have never existed had the Europeans never colonized the new world.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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8/16/2016 4:19:10 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 4:02:19 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

He also was the first brave explorer to lead the way to unknown territory. Natives can protest all they want, but the US would have never existed had the Europeans never colonized the new world.

That's true, and we would never have lived here if it hadn't come at expense of the Natives, thus wouldn't it be responsible to dedicate a day of thanks. Or at the very least not celebrate their misery and be respectful?
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,630
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8/16/2016 4:37:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 4:19:10 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 8/16/2016 4:02:19 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

He also was the first brave explorer to lead the way to unknown territory. Natives can protest all they want, but the US would have never existed had the Europeans never colonized the new world.

That's true, and we would never have lived here if it hadn't come at expense of the Natives, thus wouldn't it be responsible to dedicate a day of thanks. Or at the very least not celebrate their misery and be respectful?

Perhaps, but why is a day dedicated to an explorer bad? He wasn't a humanitarian for sure, but he helped discover the Americas and was brave enough to lead the journey. I doubt there are that many Americans that even like him, he's just being accredited for helping to spark the exploration age.
Hayd
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8/16/2016 4:52:31 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 4:37:38 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 4:19:10 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 8/16/2016 4:02:19 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

He also was the first brave explorer to lead the way to unknown territory. Natives can protest all they want, but the US would have never existed had the Europeans never colonized the new world.

That's true, and we would never have lived here if it hadn't come at expense of the Natives, thus wouldn't it be responsible to dedicate a day of thanks. Or at the very least not celebrate their misery and be respectful?

Perhaps, but why is a day dedicated to an explorer bad? He wasn't a humanitarian for sure, but he helped discover the Americas and was brave enough to lead the journey. I doubt there are that many Americans that even like him, he's just being accredited for helping to spark the exploration age.

Its bad because he caused the largest genocide of people ever recorded in history, enslaved people, raped people, and sold children into sex slave. I think those factors outweigh the *bravery* when he was just in for profit anyway.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,808
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8/16/2016 4:59:55 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

We should celebrate the founding of Jamestown as a national holiday (or some other New England colony) or an explorer of North America, such as Giovanni da Verrazzano and Jacques Cartier, instead. Celebrating Columbus day is really just dumb, considering Columbus didn't even travel to the East Coast and certainly his name is surrounded with evil deeds as well.
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KendoRe2
Posts: 126
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8/16/2016 6:16:43 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Every time a hungry child in Africa receives monetary support from the United States, it makes Columbus trip worth it. Unless you think their lives are worth less than native Americans for some reason.
KendoRe2
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8/16/2016 6:17:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 4:59:55 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

We should celebrate the founding of Jamestown as a national holiday (or some other New England colony) or an explorer of North America, such as Giovanni da Verrazzano and Jacques Cartier, instead. Celebrating Columbus day is really just dumb, considering Columbus didn't even travel to the East Coast and certainly his name is surrounded with evil deeds as well.

Without Columbus, there is no Jamestown, not the way we know it.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you
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popculturepooka
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8/16/2016 11:58:05 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

...by committing extraprdinary acts of savagery? Lol, do you guys actually think about what you say?

OP: think its pretty obvious we shouldn't celebrate him.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/16/2016 12:25:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

I think Clumbus did nothing to "found this land". He was an explorer who found an already settled land..
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brontoraptor
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8/16/2016 12:28:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
It'd be like us landing on a foreign planet, seeing buildings and Chinese flags everywhere, then saying we discovered the planet...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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ford_prefect
Posts: 4,137
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8/16/2016 1:06:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 12:28:42 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
It'd be like us landing on a foreign planet, seeing buildings and Chinese flags everywhere, then saying we discovered the planet...

Did someone hack your account?? This post actually makes sense.
brontoraptor
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8/16/2016 1:11:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 1:06:55 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/16/2016 12:28:42 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
It'd be like us landing on a foreign planet, seeing buildings and Chinese flags everywhere, then saying we discovered the planet...

Did someone hack your account?? This post actually makes sense.

Your mom rolled me off of her and made the post.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Skepsikyma
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8/16/2016 1:50:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue.

It's a silly holiday (because Columbus was far from an admirable paragon, being rightfully criticized by the Church and stripped of his governorship by the Crown), but you do have to put his landing in context. First of all, the unspoken framework of international law that you're framing this conflict in didn't exist when Columbus landed; in fact, it was his contact with these natives which sparked the discussion in Spain about what rights they possessed, and the father of international law (Francisco de Vitoria) actually specifically addressed the issue and had the ear of the Catholic monarch on the subject within a few decades of contact. You have to judge people by their own temporally and culturally contemporaneous standards, and consider what arguments were being had at the time and how far they progressed; otherwise you could argue that the Aztecs 'had it coming' because they were oppressive to surrounding native groups and practiced ritual human sacrifice. No matter what the situation, projecting modern mores onto other eras is resoundingly bad history.

Also, the disease wasn't 'genocide', it was biology. Putting the moral responsibility on white Europeans because a few people down the road made deplorable tactical use of biological reality (smallpox blankets) is incredibly dishonest and unfair. When you have contact between an urban, livestock-based society which has had exposure to plagues because of their societal structure with those who don't because of their societal structure the latter will be decimated no matter what course of action the former takes.

So, in short, Columbus wasn't some monster; you have to engage in considerable historical anachronism to entertain that argument. He was pretty average guy for his day and age, with considerable flaws and considerable virtues; I think a better argument can be made that his is a tragic story, as he was corrupted by power. His first contact with the natives theorizes that they are often enslaved by other natives and says that they would make good Christians, and he ends in refusing to baptize natives so that he can instead enslave them and sell them, to ease tensions with angry colonists. Christopher Columbus the man is much more interesting than Columbus the paragon or the Columbus the devil. He tells us something about human nature and ourselves, he makes us question, when we know all the facts, whether we ourselves would be immune to the temptations and pressures which he often faced. That's what the best historical narrative ever does; it introduces both complexity and doubt:

"[The historian] is back in his proper place when he takes us away from simple and absolute judgements and by returning to the historical context entangles everything up again. He is back in his proper place when he tell us that a thing is good or harmful according to circumstances, according to the interactions that are produced. If history can do anything it is to remind us of those complications that undermine our certainties, and to show us that all our judgements are merely relative to time and circumstance."
- Herbert Butterfield -
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
tajshar2k
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8/16/2016 2:14:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

I agree. I don't really think he did anything spectacular. He even admitted he found it by accident, since he taught he was sailing to India.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
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8/16/2016 2:15:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 2:14:24 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

I agree. I don't really think he did anything spectacular. He even admitted he found it by accident, since he taught he was sailing to India.

thought*
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Reformist
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8/16/2016 4:36:56 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 11:58:05 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

...by committing extraprdinary acts of savagery? Lol, do you guys actually think about what you say?

OP: think its pretty obvious we shouldn't celebrate him.

And creating a civilized culture there
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
bhakun
Posts: 231
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8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/16/2016 8:03:56 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 4:19:10 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 8/16/2016 4:02:19 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

He also was the first brave explorer to lead the way to unknown territory. Natives can protest all they want, but the US would have never existed had the Europeans never colonized the new world.

That's true, and we would never have lived here if it hadn't come at expense of the Natives, thus wouldn't it be responsible to dedicate a day of thanks. Or at the very least not celebrate their misery and be respectful?

Columbus didn't CREATE any misery. Like I told you in the hangouts, we are not celebrating Conquistador day, we are celebrating Columbus day on the virtue of his command and deeds as an explorer.

I would expect a utilitarian such as yourself to understand that the deaths of some savages is a small price to pay for the creation of a country like the United States.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/16/2016 8:07:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

I can't even begin to explain how wrong this is. Then again, it's coming from you.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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8/16/2016 8:11:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 8:07:08 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

I can't even begin to explain how wrong this is.
Neither can I, probably because its actually true.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/16/2016 8:14:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 8:11:01 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 8:07:08 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

I can't even begin to explain how wrong this is.
Neither can I, probably because its actually true.

You historical revisionists are absolute retards.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bhakun
Posts: 231
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8/16/2016 8:18:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 8:14:36 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/16/2016 8:11:01 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 8:07:08 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

I can't even begin to explain how wrong this is.
Neither can I, probably because its actually true.

You historical revisionists are absolute retards.

Lol.
"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." -MLK Jr
mc9
Posts: 1,032
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8/16/2016 8:41:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 4:37:38 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 4:19:10 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 8/16/2016 4:02:19 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

He also was the first brave explorer to lead the way to unknown territory. Natives can protest all they want, but the US would have never existed had the Europeans never colonized the new world.

That's true, and we would never have lived here if it hadn't come at expense of the Natives, thus wouldn't it be responsible to dedicate a day of thanks. Or at the very least not celebrate their misery and be respectful?

Perhaps, but why is a day dedicated to an explorer bad? He wasn't a humanitarian for sure, but he helped discover the Americas and was brave enough to lead the journey. I doubt there are that many Americans that even like him, he's just being accredited for helping to spark the exploration age.

Actually the Vikings found the Americas before Chris Columbus
mc9
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8/16/2016 8:43:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 12:28:42 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
It'd be like us landing on a foreign planet, seeing buildings and Chinese flags everywhere, then saying we discovered the planet...

+1
Reformist
Posts: 679
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8/16/2016 9:24:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

Thats why natives often scalped other tribes, raped and killed womrn women and treat conquered tribes like slaves

Yes very peaceful
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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8/16/2016 10:07:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 9:24:41 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

Thats why natives often scalped other tribes, raped and killed womrn women and treat conquered tribes like slaves

Yes very peaceful

Whereas the Europeans just raped and killed women and treated people as slaves. So very, very different, right?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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8/16/2016 11:07:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/16/2016 10:07:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/16/2016 9:24:41 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 7:55:51 PM, bhakun wrote:
At 8/16/2016 10:54:06 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 8/16/2016 2:58:00 AM, Hayd wrote:
Native Americans have been protesting the celebration of Columbus day for a long time, resulting in the replacement of Indigenous Peoples' Day. According to Wikipedia, four states do not celebrate Columbus Day: Alaska, Hawaii, Oregon, and South Dakota. And South Dakota celebrates Native American Day instead. And according to the HuffPost, 38% of Americans don't think that we should celebrate Columbus Day.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I was having a class discussion on the topic in history class a couple days ago and it got me curious. At the moment, I lean towards abolishing the holiday and instead instituting a day of mourning.

Columbus's arrival in America led to the mass genocide of millions of indigenous peoples through spread of diseases and by warfare. Columbus also enslaved the indigenous people he found there, the Tainos, in order to mine for gold to ship back to Spain.

Columbus actually recommended in a letter that he sent back to Spain that the indigenous people are ripe to be enslaved by the Spanish empire should them seek to colonize it.

Besides this Columbus has records of selling children into sex slavery and raping women.

Regardless, the Native Americans ended up experiencing one of the largest loss of human life recorded in human history, and then lost all of their sacred land as it was taken from them by Europeans and then had it desecrated by building upon it and then were led on the Trail of Tears to reservations.

Would the fact that we caused the Native Americans so much suffering at our hands justify a national day of mourning instead of celebrating the man that made it happen? But then is Columbus day merely celebrating the expansion of human curiosity and triumph of humanity over boundaries, and the foundation of the life that *most* of us live today? Its an interesting issue

Who the actual fuvking cares about people dying. Im not going to school just because some pansy a s s natives got their panties in a bunch.

And mourning? For what? That we replace their savage culture with our civilized culture. Lol no thank you

If anything, the Europeans were the savage culture. They were authoritarian monarchies. Most indigenous tribes were peaceful.

Thats why natives often scalped other tribes, raped and killed womrn women and treat conquered tribes like slaves

Yes very peaceful

Whereas the Europeans just raped and killed women and treated people as slaves. So very, very different, right?

Europeans didnt enslave other europeans. Also the actual monarchy of the the nations didnt condone raping.

Aldo no scalping
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