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Trans Pacific Partnership

bballcrook21
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8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The Trans-Pacific Partnership, aka TPP, is likely one of the most controversial trade deals in recent history. What makes it difficult to grapple with is how mixed its reception has been both politically and academically. You have some free trade advocates who like it because it reduces tariffs while other free market advocates despise it since it expands regulatory oversight and intellectual property laws. You have Democrats like Obama championing it, while his base despises it for not adequately addressing worker's rights. You have a Republican Party which largely would have championed it in prior years, but whose current presidential nominee rails against it. You have Hillary Clinton, who used to support it, now opposing it. And you have libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson supporting it despite the fact that he used to oppose it. Ideologically, it's simply all over the place, with perceived benefits and negatives often cancelling each other out. In addition, there's an added variable which complicates matters; almost no one has actually read it. This, as we've discovered first hand, is likely due to the fact that the agreement is a whopping 5,544 pages long. [1] It should come as no surprise, then, that much of the analysis on TPP is wrought with speculation. The unfortunate reality is, for people who desire a clear stance on an issue, there likely isn't one when it comes to the TPP.

Let's start with the only presidential candidate to support it. Here's what Gary Johnson stated:
"It is my understanding that the TPP does advance free trade. ...Is it a perfect document? Probably not. But based on my understanding of the document, I would be supporting it [though] in a perfect world there wouldn"t be a document like that, there would just be free trade." [2]

That likely sounds fairly reasonable to most liberty-oriented voters. It appears as though Johnson's personal formula for whether to support it is one which looks for "net benefits," rather than perfection. He may disagree with others on how positively to value the positives and how negatively to value the negatives, but it doesn't sound as though his underlying principles are anti-free trade or inconsistent with libertarianism. The question is, is he right?

PERCEIVED BENEFITS:
The TPP appears significant given that it would be the largest U.S. FTA by trade flows ($905 billion in U.S. goods and services exports and $980 billion in imports in 2014), and would eventually eliminate ALL tariffs on manufactured products and most agricultural goods. [3]

"Many U.S. industries are actively interested in Japan"s participation in the TPP. ...Malaysia and Vietnam also stand out among the TPP countries without existing U.S. FTAs, given the rapid growth in U.S. trade with the two nations over the past three decades, and the potential for future growth. ...Malaysia"s and Vietnam"s average applied tariffs on imports are 6.1% and 9.5%, respectively, two of the highest levels among TPP members," so erasing those barriers would be a benefit to us. [4]

An updated study by the Peterson Institute for International Economics estimates that the United States stands to gain $131 billion in annual real income from TPP driven primarily by reductions in non-tariff barriers to goods and services trade. That's roughly 0.5 percent of GDP. Estimates also suggest it would increase annual exports by $357 billion, or 9.1 percent of exports, over baseline projections by 2030. [4]

For the WORLD, rather than just for the U.S., annual income gains by 2030 are projected to be $492 billion. [4]

By eliminating over 18,000 taxes " in the form of tariffs " that various countries put on Made in America products, TPP makes sure our farmers, ranchers, manufacturers, and small businesses can compete - and win - in some of the fastest-growing markets in the world. With more than 95 percent of the world's consumers living outside our borders, TPP will significantly expand the export of Made in America goods and services and support American jobs. ...For example, TPP eliminates import taxes as high as 59 percent on U.S. machinery products, cuts import taxes on Made in America agricultural exports to TPP countries (such as taxes as high as 40 percent on U.S. poultry products, 35 percent on soybeans, and 40 percent on fruit) and eliminates import taxes as high as 70 percent on U.S. automotive products exported to TPP countries. [5] In addition, it eliminates import taxes as high as 35 percent on U.S. information and communication technology exports to TPP countries. [5]

PERCEIVED NEGATIVES:

Feldman, a U.S. economist at Credit Suisse, cites research that estimates the TPP would only increase American GDP 0.2 percent by 2025. After all - he reasons - the U.S. already has free-trade agreements with six of the 11 other participating countries " Australia, Canada, Chile, Mexico, Peru, and Singapore. Thus, the hypothetical benefits of this agreement are thwarted, leaving only our concessions. [6] [7] This concern is echoed in other research, concluding that, "from the U.S. perspective, a significant share of this liberalization has already occurred due to the existing U.S. free trade agreements with 6 of the 11 TPP partners." [3]

A study by researchers at Tufts University predicts the agreement will actually lead to a slight DECLINE in annual U.S. GDP growth and a loss of 770,000 jobs split amongst all TPP participants. [3]

Paul Krugman also came out against the TPP, saying he gave it a "thumbs down." His main point was that - in general - the significance of trade policy is over-exaggerated, saying, "there"s an odd dynamic involving the role of international trade in the history of economics. Comparative advantage was an early, classic example of how economic reasoning can lead to results that are true but not obvious; naturally, economists have always wanted this intellectual victory to be important in the real world too. This leads to the odd dynamic: comparative advantage says 'yay free trade', but also suggests that once trade is already fairly open, the gains from opening it further are small. But because economists want to keep shouting yay free trade, they look for reasons why those gains might be larger " even though the stories they then end up telling are inconsistent with the competitive model that was the basis for free-trade advocacy in the first place. [8]

MIXED REVIEW:
The World Bank essentially summed up the above mixed results with their own conclusion, conceding that tariffs and trade restrictions "are already low" by historical standards, while also maintaining that, over time, TPP would still eliminate remaining ones, "including very high ones such as the 350 percent tariff on US tobacco imports (Oliver 2015)." [9]
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 8:27:56 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
BENEFITS OF STANDARDIZATION:

The last thing to consider regarding TPP is difficult to classify entirely as "good" OR "bad," since it raises ethical concerns regarding the proper role of government and itself has economic research splitting in both directions. It has to do with the benefits of standardization. In the case of TPP, however, that which is being standardized includes regulations, and regulations - in general - are often considered unethical, inefficient, or both. WAC's own research shows that industry standardization contributes to wage increases as shared practices help broaden the viability of skill-sets, strengthening the labor pool's negotiating position relevant to wages. [10] To an extent, standardizing regulations may actually help firms become more efficient, in the sense that it dramatically reduces the types of regulations and/or legal systems they need to navigate. In other words, rather than having to hire a legal expert in Japan's laws, AND the United States' laws, AND in Malaysia's laws, etc, perhaps, if TPP countries move towards adopting shared standards, the dead-weight associated with compliance can be reduced.

This is referred to as a "harmonization of standards," and per the World Bank, "the sectors selected for such an approach include cosmetics, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, information and communications technology products, wine and distilled spirits, proprietary formulas for prepackaged foods and food additives, and organic agricultural products. The provisions of the agreement cover labeling requirements for wine, marketing authorizations for pharmaceuticals, medical devices and cosmetics, and encourage mutual recognition of standards for organic products as well as mutual recognition of conformity assessment of telecommunications equipment." [11] In order to consider this a "benefit," one would have to first consider these acts by governments as ethical. With that set aside, however, they DO appear to at least be more efficient than having each country stick to its own unique standards, thereby increasing the burden of compliance.

CONCLUSION:

The TPP is simply all over the place; politically, ideologically, ethically, and academically. Hopefully, with the information provided above, you can decide for yourself whether or not to support or oppose it. The only easy conclusion should be that it's far less obvious than politicians make it out to be.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 8:36:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
How long would it take (in hours) for you to read a 5500 page novel? How about a 500 page novel?

5500 page would take me a couple days and a 500 page I could read in a day or two
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,242
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8/19/2016 8:37:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:36:22 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
How long would it take (in hours) for you to read a 5500 page novel? How about a 500 page novel?

5500 page would take me a couple days and a 500 page I could read in a day or two

how many hours reading for 500 pages...20?
Capital
Posts: 588
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8/19/2016 8:38:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:36:22 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
How long would it take (in hours) for you to read a 5500 page novel? How about a 500 page novel?

5500 page would take me a couple days and a 500 page I could read in a day or two

It takes me a couple of days to read the hunger games :*(
Im not a Nazi
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/19/2016 8:39:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The Trans-Pacific Partnership, aka TPP, is likely one of the most controversial trade deals in recent history. What makes it difficult to grapple with is how mixed its reception has been both politically and academically. You have some free trade advocates who like it because it reduces tariffs while other free market advocates despise it since it expands regulatory oversight and intellectual property laws. You have Democrats like Obama championing it, while his base despises it for not adequately addressing worker's rights. You have a Republican Party which largely would have championed it in prior years, but whose current presidential nominee rails against it. You have Hillary Clinton, who used to support it, now opposing it. And you have libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson supporting it despite the fact that he used to oppose it. Ideologically, it's simply all over the place, with perceived benefits and negatives often cancelling each other out. In addition, there's an added variable which complicates matters; almost no one has actually read it. This, as we've discovered first hand, is likely due to the fact that the agreement is a whopping 5,544 pages long. [1] It should come as no surprise, then, that much of the analysis on TPP is wrought with speculation. The unfortunate reality is, for people who desire a clear stance on an issue, there likely isn't one when it comes to the TPP.

Let's start with the only presidential candidate to support it. Here's what Gary Johnson stated:
"It is my understanding that the TPP does advance free trade. ...Is it a perfect document? Probably not. But based on my understanding of the document, I would be supporting it [though] in a perfect world there wouldn"t be a document like that, there would just be free trade." [2]

That likely sounds fairly reasonable to most liberty-oriented voters. It appears as though Johnson's personal formula for whether to support it is one which looks for "net benefits," rather than perfection. He may disagree with others on how positively to value the positives and how negatively to value the negatives, but it doesn't sound as though his underlying principles are anti-free trade or inconsistent with libertarianism. The question is, is he right?

PERCEIVED BENEFITS:
The TPP appears significant given that it would be the largest U.S. FTA by trade flows ($905 billion in U.S. goods and services exports and $980 billion in imports in 2014), and would eventually eliminate ALL tariffs on manufactured products and most agricultural goods. [3]

"Many U.S. industries are actively interested in Japan"s participation in the TPP. ...Malaysia and Vietnam also stand out among the TPP countries without existing U.S. FTAs, given the rapid growth in U.S. trade with the two nations over the past three decades, and the potential for future growth. ...Malaysia"s and Vietnam"s average applied tariffs on imports are 6.1% and 9.5%, respectively, two of the highest levels among TPP members," so erasing those barriers would be a benefit to us. [4]

An updated study by the Peterson Institute for International Economics estimates that the United States stands to gain $131 billion in annual real income from TPP driven primarily by reductions in non-tariff barriers to goods and services trade. That's roughly 0.5 percent of GDP. Estimates also suggest it would increase annual exports by $357 billion, or 9.1 percent of exports, over baseline projections by 2030. [4]

For the WORLD, rather than just for the U.S., annual income gains by 2030 are projected to be $492 billion. [4]

By eliminating over 18,000 taxes " in the form of tariffs " that various countries put on Made in America products, TPP makes sure our farmers, ranchers, manufacturers, and small businesses can compete - and win - in some of the fastest-growing markets in the world. With more than 95 percent of the world's consumers living outside our borders, TPP will significantly expand the export of Made in America goods and services and support American jobs. ...For example, TPP eliminates import taxes as high as 59 percent on U.S. machinery products, cuts import taxes on Made in America agricultural exports to TPP countries (such as taxes as high as 40 percent on U.S. poultry products, 35 percent on soybeans, and 40 percent on fruit) and eliminates import taxes as high as 70 percent on U.S. automotive products exported to TPP countries. [5] In addition, it eliminates import taxes as high as 35 percent on U.S. information and communication technology exports to TPP countries. [5]

PERCEIVED NEGATIVES:

Feldman, a U.S. economist at Credit Suisse, cites research that estimates the TPP would only increase American GDP 0.2 percent by 2025. After all - he reasons - the U.S. already has free-trade agreements with six of the 11 other participating countries " Australia, Canada, Chile, Mexico, Peru, and Singapore. Thus, the hypothetical benefits of this agreement are thwarted, leaving only our concessions. [6] [7] This concern is echoed in other research, concluding that, "from the U.S. perspective, a significant share of this liberalization has already occurred due to the existing U.S. free trade agreements with 6 of the 11 TPP partners." [3]

A study by researchers at Tufts University predicts the agreement will actually lead to a slight DECLINE in annual U.S. GDP growth and a loss of 770,000 jobs split amongst all TPP participants. [3]

Paul Krugman also came out against the TPP, saying he gave it a "thumbs down." His main point was that - in general - the significance of trade policy is over-exaggerated, saying, "there"s an odd dynamic involving the role of international trade in the history of economics. Comparative advantage was an early, classic example of how economic reasoning can lead to results that are true but not obvious; naturally, economists have always wanted this intellectual victory to be important in the real world too. This leads to the odd dynamic: comparative advantage says 'yay free trade', but also suggests that once trade is already fairly open, the gains from opening it further are small. But because economists want to keep shouting yay free trade, they look for reasons why those gains might be larger " even though the stories they then end up telling are inconsistent with the competitive model that was the basis for free-trade advocacy in the first place. [8]

MIXED REVIEW:
The World Bank essentially summed up the above mixed results with their own conclusion, conceding that tariffs and trade restrictions "are already low" by historical standards, while also maintaining that, over time, TPP would still eliminate remaining ones, "including very high ones such as the 350 percent tariff on US tobacco imports (Oliver 2015)." [9]

How about...we tell all foreign oligarchs to screw themselves, build a wall, keep our nation safe and rich and watch the Saudis and Chinese burn...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,242
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8/19/2016 8:41:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Nevermind, I found a website the roughly calculates it.

About 12 hours to read 500 pages, so about what..130 hours to read the TPP?????

Ain't nobody got time for dat.

TRUMP!
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 8:44:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:37:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:36:22 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
How long would it take (in hours) for you to read a 5500 page novel? How about a 500 page novel?

5500 page would take me a couple days and a 500 page I could read in a day or two

how many hours reading for 500 pages...20?

Probably less than that.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 8:45:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:38:16 PM, Capital wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:36:22 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
How long would it take (in hours) for you to read a 5500 page novel? How about a 500 page novel?

5500 page would take me a couple days and a 500 page I could read in a day or two

It takes me a couple of days to read the hunger games :*(

Lol I read the whole 3 set in a couple days
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 8:45:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:41:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Nevermind, I found a website the roughly calculates it.

About 12 hours to read 500 pages, so about what..130 hours to read the TPP?????

Ain't nobody got time for dat.

TRUMP!

Welp
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,242
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8/19/2016 8:49:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:45:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:41:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Nevermind, I found a website the roughly calculates it.

About 12 hours to read 500 pages, so about what..130 hours to read the TPP?????

Ain't nobody got time for dat.

TRUMP!

Welp
Tell me you spent 200 hours reading Pelosicare?
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,291
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8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Personally, I think the TPP needs to be seriously reformed, replaced, or simply removed.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Capital
Posts: 588
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8/19/2016 9:01:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Personally, I think the TPP needs to be seriously reformed, replaced, or simply removed.

Ugh bernie said the same thibg and so did trump. Im conflicted to vote for a man who agreed with a socialist. But I also want the illegals gone...
Im not a Nazi
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,291
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8/19/2016 9:04:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:01:20 PM, Capital wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Personally, I think the TPP needs to be seriously reformed, replaced, or simply removed.

Ugh bernie said the same thibg and so did trump. Im conflicted to vote for a man who agreed with a socialist. But I also want the illegals gone...

Bernie at least dispersed SOME good politics (unlike Hillary). Trump is by far the best option left, though.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 9:30:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:49:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:45:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:41:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Nevermind, I found a website the roughly calculates it.

About 12 hours to read 500 pages, so about what..130 hours to read the TPP?????

Ain't nobody got time for dat.

TRUMP!

Welp
Tell me you spent 200 hours reading Pelosicare?

Pelosi care is a load of crap
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 9:31:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Thank you

Personally, I think the TPP needs to be seriously reformed, replaced, or simply removed.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/19/2016 9:46:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:31:38 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Thank you

Personally, I think the TPP needs to be seriously reformed, replaced, or simply removed.

http://www.unbiasedamerica.com...

This is becoming a rather nasty habit, don't you think?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 9:50:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:46:15 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:31:38 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Thank you

Personally, I think the TPP needs to be seriously reformed, replaced, or simply removed.

http://www.unbiasedamerica.com...

This is becoming a rather nasty habit, don't you think?

I tried to put that into the one about sources but it won't stop giving me errors. I had to reload it and it still doesn't work
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,242
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8/19/2016 9:53:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:30:19 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:49:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:45:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:41:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Nevermind, I found a website the roughly calculates it.

About 12 hours to read 500 pages, so about what..130 hours to read the TPP?????

Ain't nobody got time for dat.

TRUMP!

Welp
Tell me you spent 200 hours reading Pelosicare?

Pelosi care is a load of crap

Could you afford to pay minimum wage to have someone read obamacare for you?
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 9:54:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:53:17 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:30:19 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:49:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:45:48 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:41:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Nevermind, I found a website the roughly calculates it.

About 12 hours to read 500 pages, so about what..130 hours to read the TPP?????

Ain't nobody got time for dat.

TRUMP!

Welp
Tell me you spent 200 hours reading Pelosicare?

Pelosi care is a load of crap

Could you afford to pay minimum wage to have someone read obamacare for you?

If I had money then maybe lol
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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8/19/2016 9:58:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 8:36:22 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:28:19 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
How long would it take (in hours) for you to read a 5500 page novel? How about a 500 page novel?

5500 page would take me a couple days and a 500 page I could read in a day or two

I just had to read the Chapters WikiLeaks released to Know I was against it
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 9:59:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:56:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
Here is all you need to know about the TPP


That's a terrible, terrible source. A 2 and a half minute video from a youtube channel named "Expose the TPP". As biased and as academically destitute as possible.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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8/19/2016 10:01:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:59:39 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:56:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
Here is all you need to know about the TPP


That's a terrible, terrible source. A 2 and a half minute video from a youtube channel named "Expose the TPP". As biased and as academically destitute as possible.

Doesn't change the facts that stuff is in the TPP
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 10:03:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 10:01:33 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:59:39 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:56:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
Here is all you need to know about the TPP


That's a terrible, terrible source. A 2 and a half minute video from a youtube channel named "Expose the TPP". As biased and as academically destitute as possible.

Doesn't change the facts that stuff is in the TPP

You're an ideologue, Brendan. You're not in any way someone that goes towards the facts, but you are an individual that goes for what suits his agenda.

Read the OP, and don't share that biased garbage.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/19/2016 10:03:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The TPP is more about the geopolitical encirclement of China than it is about economics. That's why it's 'all over the place'.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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8/19/2016 10:07:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 10:03:29 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 10:01:33 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:59:39 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:56:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
Here is all you need to know about the TPP


That's a terrible, terrible source. A 2 and a half minute video from a youtube channel named "Expose the TPP". As biased and as academically destitute as possible.

Doesn't change the facts that stuff is in the TPP

You're an ideologue, Brendan. You're not in any way someone that goes towards the facts, but you are an individual that goes for what suits his agenda.

Read the OP, and don't share that biased garbage.

I read it already.
And you are just as much of an ideologue as me, so this is a case of the pot and the kettle.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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8/19/2016 10:10:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 10:07:35 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 10:03:29 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 10:01:33 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:59:39 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 9:56:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
Here is all you need to know about the TPP


That's a terrible, terrible source. A 2 and a half minute video from a youtube channel named "Expose the TPP". As biased and as academically destitute as possible.

Doesn't change the facts that stuff is in the TPP

You're an ideologue, Brendan. You're not in any way someone that goes towards the facts, but you are an individual that goes for what suits his agenda.

Read the OP, and don't share that biased garbage.

I read it already.
And you are just as much of an ideologue as me, so this is a case of the pot and the kettle.

No, no, that is not the case. I have ideological views, and those change when shown with peer reviewed evidence and hard facts.

The issue with you is that you politicize the TPP, which should not be the case. It's not a hard set bad vs good trade deal, as it has its advantages and disadvantages.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,291
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8/20/2016 1:44:58 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 9:31:38 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:56:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/19/2016 8:26:53 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:

Great read. :)

Thank you

Np. :)
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