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Democratic Policies and Minorities

RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,139
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8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/22/2016 2:11:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Show me
1 - One Republican policy that has been proposed or enacted to help minorities
2 - One Democratic policy that has been proposed or enacted to hurt minorities
Death23
Posts: 781
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8/22/2016 2:38:18 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).
Bennett91
Posts: 4,236
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8/22/2016 2:55:14 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 2:38:18 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

Not that I'm doubting you, but do you have a source?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 2:38:18 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^
Death23
Posts: 781
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8/22/2016 5:45:44 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 2:55:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:38:18 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

Not that I'm doubting you, but do you have a source?

e.g.:

Under a culture of dependency, poverty becomes a trap, and recipients get stuck. Long-term welfare recipients lose work habits and job skills and miss out on the marketplace contacts that lead to job opportunities.

http://www.cnn.com...

Various other articles from Google:

https://www.google.com...

The behavioral responses people have to free money is fairly well documented from basic income studies. These studies provide good "before and after" data that's useful for testing behavioral theories. This is a good paper discussing several of these studies: http://goo.gl... While it is true that giving the poor money does cause them to work less, the impact of this effect has been exaggerated the "welfare causes poverty" people.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,236
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8/22/2016 5:57:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 5:45:44 AM, Death23 wrote:

http://www.cnn.com...

Various other articles from Google:

https://www.google.com...

The behavioral responses people have to free money is fairly well documented from basic income studies. These studies provide good "before and after" data that's useful for testing behavioral theories. This is a good paper discussing several of these studies: http://goo.gl... While it is true that giving the poor money does cause them to work less, the impact of this effect has been exaggerated the "welfare causes poverty" people.

I'm a little confused by your stance. The CNN link supports the welfare perpetuates poverty narrative, and the first link from your 2nd source is from the Cato Institute, which repeats the narrative that welfare perpetuates poverty.

But your 3rd source says it's exaggerated.
Death23
Posts: 781
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8/22/2016 6:11:32 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 5:57:45 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 5:45:44 AM, Death23 wrote:

http://www.cnn.com...

Various other articles from Google:

https://www.google.com...

The behavioral responses people have to free money is fairly well documented from basic income studies. These studies provide good "before and after" data that's useful for testing behavioral theories. This is a good paper discussing several of these studies: http://goo.gl... While it is true that giving the poor money does cause them to work less, the impact of this effect has been exaggerated the "welfare causes poverty" people.

I'm a little confused by your stance. The CNN link supports the welfare perpetuates poverty narrative, and the first link from your 2nd source is from the Cato Institute, which repeats the narrative that welfare perpetuates poverty.

But your 3rd source says it's exaggerated.

My stance is accurately represented by my first post in this thread. It wasn't clear which fact you wanted sourced - My representation of the argument; the implication of the argument's prevalence; or the fact that the argument was bunk. The CNN and Google sources were provided to support the former, and the paper was provided to support the latter.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,236
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8/22/2016 6:13:46 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 6:11:32 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 5:57:45 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 5:45:44 AM, Death23 wrote:

http://www.cnn.com...

Various other articles from Google:

https://www.google.com...

The behavioral responses people have to free money is fairly well documented from basic income studies. These studies provide good "before and after" data that's useful for testing behavioral theories. This is a good paper discussing several of these studies: http://goo.gl... While it is true that giving the poor money does cause them to work less, the impact of this effect has been exaggerated the "welfare causes poverty" people.

I'm a little confused by your stance. The CNN link supports the welfare perpetuates poverty narrative, and the first link from your 2nd source is from the Cato Institute, which repeats the narrative that welfare perpetuates poverty.

But your 3rd source says it's exaggerated.

My stance is accurately represented by my first post in this thread. It wasn't clear which fact you wanted sourced - My representation of the argument; the implication of the argument's prevalence; or the fact that the argument was bunk. The CNN and Google sources were provided to support the former, and the paper was provided to support the latter.

I was interested in the facts around the claim 'welfare perpetuates poverty'. So I guess that means at the very least there's some minor evidence reason to think it's true, but in general its not true.
Death23
Posts: 781
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8/22/2016 6:16:44 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 6:13:46 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 6:11:32 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 5:57:45 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/22/2016 5:45:44 AM, Death23 wrote:

http://www.cnn.com...

Various other articles from Google:

https://www.google.com...

The behavioral responses people have to free money is fairly well documented from basic income studies. These studies provide good "before and after" data that's useful for testing behavioral theories. This is a good paper discussing several of these studies: http://goo.gl... While it is true that giving the poor money does cause them to work less, the impact of this effect has been exaggerated the "welfare causes poverty" people.

I'm a little confused by your stance. The CNN link supports the welfare perpetuates poverty narrative, and the first link from your 2nd source is from the Cato Institute, which repeats the narrative that welfare perpetuates poverty.

But your 3rd source says it's exaggerated.

My stance is accurately represented by my first post in this thread. It wasn't clear which fact you wanted sourced - My representation of the argument; the implication of the argument's prevalence; or the fact that the argument was bunk. The CNN and Google sources were provided to support the former, and the paper was provided to support the latter.

I was interested in the facts around the claim 'welfare perpetuates poverty'. So I guess that means at the very least there's some minor evidence reason to think it's true, but in general its not true.

My opinion is that there's some truth to that claim, but it's an impact situation. The effect exists, but its impact is small. The magnitude of the impact is evident from the behavioral response data documented in the basic income studies.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/22/2016 12:55:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

Higher corporate tax rates, (higher tax rates in general) which leads to business leaving for other cities (or countries), which leads to massive layoffs and a lack of jobs. See Detroit as just one example (yes I realize this isn't the only thing that led to the downfall of Detroit, but it has been democratic-ran for decades so feel free to come up with others if you like):

http://www.nytimes.com... (see shortcomings of leadership, they were all democrats)

And while I would agree that correlation and causation aren't the same, you can't argue that there isn't a high degree of correlation between Democratic-run cities and a struggling minority population. Care to bring forth an idea of your own?

For further reading:

http://eaglerising.com...

http://www.frontpagemag.com...

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org...

http://www.nationalreview.com...

There is a deep literature tying liberal residents to illiberal housing policies that create affordability crunches for the middle class. In 2010, UCLA economist Matthew Kahn published a study of California cities, which found that liberal metros issued fewer new housing permits. The correlation held over time: As California cities became more liberal, he observed, they built fewer homes.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com...

http://www.baltimoresun.com...

http://www.scragged.com...

Taxing the productive to buy votes from government employees and the unproductive is good politics - it supported Democratic machines for decades on end - but it wrecks societies where Curley machines become entrenched. Even though Democrats raise taxes in the name of helping minorities and the less well off, the latest census showed that minorities are leaving high tax states for places with lower taxes and fewer social programs but more jobs.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/22/2016 1:00:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
...So we have a perfect storm of costly regulation:

Money-laundering rules make it expensive to acquire new customers, so poor people who won't generate enough business can't get bank accounts at all.
The new payday lending rules will have the same effect by pricing the bottom tier of customers out of the market. They'll turn to loan sharks which will bring back the days of collection by breaking legs.
Big banks are being required to hold more capital. This increases their costs and makes them charge more for their services. How nice of the Feds to protect us! We're sure that all the people whose credit cards were canceled feel the same way.
Banks are being criticized and fined for not lending to enough minorities because they can't find enough minorities with good credit ratings. That's how we created the first housing crisis.
And, like the classic parody New York Times headline for the end of the world, when the bubble once again bursts it'll be "Poor, Minorities Hardest Hit."
Democrats specialize in creating problems and then running against them. Meanwhile, once-healthy industries and markets get destroyed.


http://www.scragged.com...
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,660
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8/22/2016 3:03:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Nothing, their welfare state hurt Blacks.
http://www.frontpagemag.com...
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,320
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8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,320
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8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/23/2016 12:37:45 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

http://www.forbes.com...

"Why do those beliefs persist in the face of common economic sense? No legislator has ever overturned the law of demand, which says that when the price of labor rises, the quantity demanded will fall (assuming other things are constant). That same law tells us that quantity demanded (i.e., the number of jobs for low-skilled workers) will decrease more in the long run than in the short run, as employers switch to labor-saving methods of production"and unemployment will increase.

The belief that increasing the minimum wage is socially beneficial is a delusion. It is short-sighted and ignores evident reality. Workers who retain their jobs are made better off but only at the expense of unskilled, mostly young, workers who either lose their jobs or can"t find a job at the legal minimum."


And we have now brought up another democratic policy (raising the minimum wage) that disproportionately harms minorities.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/23/2016 12:39:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:37:45 AM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

http://www.forbes.com...

"Why do those beliefs persist in the face of common economic sense? No legislator has ever overturned the law of demand, which says that when the price of labor rises, the quantity demanded will fall (assuming other things are constant). That same law tells us that quantity demanded (i.e., the number of jobs for low-skilled workers) will decrease more in the long run than in the short run, as employers switch to labor-saving methods of production"and unemployment will increase.

The belief that increasing the minimum wage is socially beneficial is a delusion. It is short-sighted and ignores evident reality. Workers who retain their jobs are made better off but only at the expense of unskilled, mostly young, workers who either lose their jobs or can"t find a job at the legal minimum."


And we have now brought up another democratic policy (raising the minimum wage) that disproportionately harms minorities.

How about you start with something that is not an opinion piece?

Well, I will humor you anyway.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/23/2016 12:45:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:39:38 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:37:45 AM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

http://www.forbes.com...

"Why do those beliefs persist in the face of common economic sense? No legislator has ever overturned the law of demand, which says that when the price of labor rises, the quantity demanded will fall (assuming other things are constant). That same law tells us that quantity demanded (i.e., the number of jobs for low-skilled workers) will decrease more in the long run than in the short run, as employers switch to labor-saving methods of production"and unemployment will increase.

The belief that increasing the minimum wage is socially beneficial is a delusion. It is short-sighted and ignores evident reality. Workers who retain their jobs are made better off but only at the expense of unskilled, mostly young, workers who either lose their jobs or can"t find a job at the legal minimum."


And we have now brought up another democratic policy (raising the minimum wage) that disproportionately harms minorities.

How about you start with something that is not an opinion piece?

Well, I will humor you anyway.

"I am vice president for monetary studies, editor of the Cato Journal, senior fellow, and director of Catos annual monetary conference. I have written widely on Federal Reserve policy and monetary reform, and am an expert on China"s economic liberalization. I have edited more than ten books, including The Search for Stable Money (with Anna J. Schwartz), The Future of Money in the Information Age, and China in the New Millennium. My articles have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, South China Morning Post, and scholarly journals. I write regularly for Forbes.com. From 1984 to 1990, I served on the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars. I have been a visiting scholar at the Central European University and Fudan University in Shanghai. I hold a Ph.D. in economics from the University of Virginia."

Expert opinion is not speculation. But heck, this is just Econ 101. Don't want to believe this piece, go pick up any basic economics book.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/23/2016 12:57:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:45:54 AM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:39:38 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:37:45 AM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

http://www.forbes.com...

"Why do those beliefs persist in the face of common economic sense? No legislator has ever overturned the law of demand, which says that when the price of labor rises, the quantity demanded will fall (assuming other things are constant). That same law tells us that quantity demanded (i.e., the number of jobs for low-skilled workers) will decrease more in the long run than in the short run, as employers switch to labor-saving methods of production"and unemployment will increase.

The belief that increasing the minimum wage is socially beneficial is a delusion. It is short-sighted and ignores evident reality. Workers who retain their jobs are made better off but only at the expense of unskilled, mostly young, workers who either lose their jobs or can"t find a job at the legal minimum."


And we have now brought up another democratic policy (raising the minimum wage) that disproportionately harms minorities.

How about you start with something that is not an opinion piece?

Well, I will humor you anyway.

"I am vice president for monetary studies, editor of the Cato Journal, senior fellow, and director of Catos annual monetary conference. I have written widely on Federal Reserve policy and monetary reform, and am an expert on China"s economic liberalization. I have edited more than ten books, including The Search for Stable Money (with Anna J. Schwartz), The Future of Money in the Information Age, and China in the New Millennium. My articles have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, South China Morning Post, and scholarly journals. I write regularly for Forbes.com. From 1984 to 1990, I served on the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars. I have been a visiting scholar at the Central European University and Fudan University in Shanghai. I hold a Ph.D. in economics from the University of Virginia."

Expert opinion is not speculation. But heck, this is just Econ 101. Don't want to believe this piece, go pick up any basic economics book.

Cato. Cato? Well, now I have no respect for his opinion piece. Kotch spam,
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/23/2016 1:39:29 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:57:38 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:45:54 AM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:39:38 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:37:45 AM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

http://www.forbes.com...

"Why do those beliefs persist in the face of common economic sense? No legislator has ever overturned the law of demand, which says that when the price of labor rises, the quantity demanded will fall (assuming other things are constant). That same law tells us that quantity demanded (i.e., the number of jobs for low-skilled workers) will decrease more in the long run than in the short run, as employers switch to labor-saving methods of production"and unemployment will increase.

The belief that increasing the minimum wage is socially beneficial is a delusion. It is short-sighted and ignores evident reality. Workers who retain their jobs are made better off but only at the expense of unskilled, mostly young, workers who either lose their jobs or can"t find a job at the legal minimum."


And we have now brought up another democratic policy (raising the minimum wage) that disproportionately harms minorities.

How about you start with something that is not an opinion piece?

Well, I will humor you anyway.

"I am vice president for monetary studies, editor of the Cato Journal, senior fellow, and director of Catos annual monetary conference. I have written widely on Federal Reserve policy and monetary reform, and am an expert on China"s economic liberalization. I have edited more than ten books, including The Search for Stable Money (with Anna J. Schwartz), The Future of Money in the Information Age, and China in the New Millennium. My articles have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, South China Morning Post, and scholarly journals. I write regularly for Forbes.com. From 1984 to 1990, I served on the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars. I have been a visiting scholar at the Central European University and Fudan University in Shanghai. I hold a Ph.D. in economics from the University of Virginia."

Expert opinion is not speculation. But heck, this is just Econ 101. Don't want to believe this piece, go pick up any basic economics book.

Cato. Cato? Well, now I have no respect for his opinion piece. Kotch spam,

Then as I said, go read a basic economics book.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,320
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8/23/2016 2:21:25 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

Okay. I was just wondering. :)
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/23/2016 2:38:05 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 2:21:25 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:30:49 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/23/2016 12:01:24 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:59:47 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/22/2016 11:45:55 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/22/2016 2:58:34 AM, TBR wrote:
The argument goes that giving money to the poor causes poverty because the poor will look for or be satisfied with welfare instead of looking for work. It's a theory that isn't consistent with observation (i.e. it's bunk).

^^^

Do you believe this is the case with raising the minimum wage?

What exactly are you asking? Do I support raising the minimum wage? Yes, I do.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. All things considered, that was the question I was getting to.

You have no concerns about possible disproportionate effects on minorities and the lesser-skilled?

No. If you can give me good reason to worry, I will read, but I have no concern.

Okay. I was just wondering. :)

This running narrative, that the sky would fall, cats would be sleeping with dogs, and generally hell on earth, is just not supported by any real data. There is little to no proof that raising the minimum wage will cost jobs in practice. Trying to evaluate the labor market by simple supply and demand is just not an accurate model. When employers can (and do) pay employees much less than they are "worth" it is because of uneven power.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/23/2016 2:50:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Keeping them in the fields and churning out those cheap laborers. Notice the liberal explanation is "we need them because no one else will do those jobs." Which is another way of saying "we need more slaves. To pick the fields."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,236
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8/23/2016 3:41:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 2:50:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Keeping them in the fields and churning out those cheap laborers. Notice the liberal explanation is "we need them because no one else will do those jobs." Which is another way of saying "we need more slaves. To pick the fields."

So which is it? Do liberals want mexicans as illegal slave labor or as citizens for votes?
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,139
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8/23/2016 2:36:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 12:55:15 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

Higher corporate tax rates, (higher tax rates in general) which leads to business leaving for other cities (or countries), which leads to massive layoffs and a lack of jobs. See Detroit as just one example (yes I realize this isn't the only thing that led to the downfall of Detroit, but it has been democratic-ran for decades so feel free to come up with others if you like):

http://www.nytimes.com... (see shortcomings of leadership, they were all democrats)

And while I would agree that correlation and causation aren't the same, you can't argue that there isn't a high degree of correlation between Democratic-run cities and a struggling minority population. Care to bring forth an idea of your own?

For further reading:

http://eaglerising.com...

http://www.frontpagemag.com...

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org...

http://www.nationalreview.com...

There is a deep literature tying liberal residents to illiberal housing policies that create affordability crunches for the middle class. In 2010, UCLA economist Matthew Kahn published a study of California cities, which found that liberal metros issued fewer new housing permits. The correlation held over time: As California cities became more liberal, he observed, they built fewer homes.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com...

http://www.baltimoresun.com...

http://www.scragged.com...

Taxing the productive to buy votes from government employees and the unproductive is good politics - it supported Democratic machines for decades on end - but it wrecks societies where Curley machines become entrenched. Even though Democrats raise taxes in the name of helping minorities and the less well off, the latest census showed that minorities are leaving high tax states for places with lower taxes and fewer social programs but more jobs.

Businesses don't usually outsource because of higher corporate tax rates, the biggest reason they outsource is because of lower labor costs. Most industries that are heavily outsourced are industries where workers abroad can do the same quality of work for much lower wages. And it's not even a minimum wage issue most of the time, because the cost of living in India/China is so much lower than the cost of living in the US that American workers would literally not be able to afford housing and food at those levels of wages.

But businesses and their lobbyists love to use higher corporate tax rates as an excuse for outsourcing their jobs, and lots of conservatives eat it up.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/23/2016 2:47:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 2:36:30 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/22/2016 12:55:15 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
At 8/22/2016 12:25:54 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 8/21/2016 11:28:32 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
What have Democratic policies done to help minorities?

Democratic policies have kept minorities, specifically African Americans, in or near poverty for years within inner cities such as Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., Newark, and the list goes on and on.

http://video.foxnews.com...

Please give an example of a specific Democratic policy that keeps minorities in poverty.

Higher corporate tax rates, (higher tax rates in general) which leads to business leaving for other cities (or countries), which leads to massive layoffs and a lack of jobs. See Detroit as just one example (yes I realize this isn't the only thing that led to the downfall of Detroit, but it has been democratic-ran for decades so feel free to come up with others if you like):

http://www.nytimes.com... (see shortcomings of leadership, they were all democrats)

And while I would agree that correlation and causation aren't the same, you can't argue that there isn't a high degree of correlation between Democratic-run cities and a struggling minority population. Care to bring forth an idea of your own?

For further reading:

http://eaglerising.com...

http://www.frontpagemag.com...

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org...

http://www.nationalreview.com...

There is a deep literature tying liberal residents to illiberal housing policies that create affordability crunches for the middle class. In 2010, UCLA economist Matthew Kahn published a study of California cities, which found that liberal metros issued fewer new housing permits. The correlation held over time: As California cities became more liberal, he observed, they built fewer homes.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com...

http://www.baltimoresun.com...

http://www.scragged.com...

Taxing the productive to buy votes from government employees and the unproductive is good politics - it supported Democratic machines for decades on end - but it wrecks societies where Curley machines become entrenched. Even though Democrats raise taxes in the name of helping minorities and the less well off, the latest census showed that minorities are leaving high tax states for places with lower taxes and fewer social programs but more jobs.

Businesses don't usually outsource because of higher corporate tax rates, the biggest reason they outsource is because of lower labor costs. Most industries that are heavily outsourced are industries where workers abroad can do the same quality of work for much lower wages. And it's not even a minimum wage issue most of the time, because the cost of living in India/China is so much lower than the cost of living in the US that American workers would literally not be able to afford housing and food at those levels of wages.

But businesses and their lobbyists love to use higher corporate tax rates as an excuse for outsourcing their jobs, and lots of conservatives eat it up.

I didn't claim they outsourced, I claimed they moved to areas with lower tax rates or reduced their labor force to compensate for the higher tax rate. Either one results in fewer jobs (as does raising the minimum wage). Bottom line is capitalism doesn't work when the government gets involved and starts over-regulated it. I provided a ton of evidence for this happening, but it seems those on the left just choose to ignore it.

Okay that's fine, ignore it if you like, but at least provide a different solution to the problem. Should the struggling minority populations of these inner cities, that have been struggling for decades under democratic leadership, just continue with the status quo? I mean if a leadership shift, along with different policies, isn't the answer, then what is? More increased taxes? Wealth redistribution? Continuing to increase the minimum wage? Those ideas and policies haven't worked in the past, so why keep trying them? What is the next bright idea? I'm all ears.