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Trump on U.S. Ebola Patients - 2014

000ike
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8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
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8/24/2016 3:14:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
This is the kind of person who is always ringing the alarm bells and demanding extremes the moment any crisis occurs ... if his alarm was undue and nothing occurs (as in most cases), he silently withdraws and suffers no consequences whatsoever. If the crisis happens to worsen (it doesn't matter if it's for reasons he does not understand or if its for reasons that his proposals would not have prevented), he claims credit and uses it as leverage. Don't you find that disgusting?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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8/24/2016 3:33:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
What? He's a bad person for not wanting to bring a deadly disease home when we could care for them over there?

That's called not being an idiot. I wouldn't bring them back either.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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8/24/2016 3:49:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:33:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
What? He's a bad person for not wanting to bring a deadly disease home when we could care for them over there?

That's called not being an idiot. I wouldn't bring them back either.

Level with me. If it was the case that there was no secure way to transport the patients or that the risk of transmission to the general public upon their arrival was high or if there was indeed a way to provide them sufficient treatment in Africa (and treatment that could arrive in time), then it would indeed be stupid to bring them into the United States. This is a careful and objective assessment of risk that only the technicians, physicians, and epidemiologists are really qualified to perform. Absolute deference to "experts" is stupid... and that's not what I expect of trump .... but cautious deference is not stupid.

He can't be so impulsive. He can't keep insisting that people who know vastly more than he does and are making very difficult decisions with complex considerations (many of which he is, perhaps, not aware of) are all just incompetent. Common sense and intuition will not get you to every answer.

And at the very LEAAAST, the fact that this physician was one of our own should have awakened some moral or patriotic sympathy -- in which case, he would express his concerns with the hope that all goes well, that they're able to get the treatment that they need without worsening the domestic epidemic.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
xus00HAY
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8/24/2016 3:55:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
If those people who worked at Emory university were really smart they would have figured out a way they could get a job somewhere else and then they wouldn't have to live in Atlanta. Believe me, there must be some other place in the world where they could get care that is as good or better!
thett3
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8/24/2016 3:55:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:49:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:33:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
What? He's a bad person for not wanting to bring a deadly disease home when we could care for them over there?

That's called not being an idiot. I wouldn't bring them back either.

Level with me. If it was the case that there was no secure way to transport the patients or that the risk of transmission to the general public upon their arrival was high or if there was indeed a way to provide them sufficient treatment in Africa (and treatment that could arrive in time), then it would indeed be stupid to bring them into the United States. This is a careful and objective assessment of risk that only the technicians, physicians, and epidemiologists are really qualified to perform. Absolute deference to "experts" is stupid... and that's not what I expect of trump .... but cautious deference is not stupid.

Always trust the medical establishment! They only have your best interest in mind!

By the way, have you gotten checked for bad blood? http://exhibits.hsl.virginia.edu...


He can't be so impulsive. He can't keep insisting that people who know vastly more than he does and are making very difficult decisions with complex considerations (many of which he is, perhaps, not aware of) are all just incompetent. Common sense and intuition will not get you to every answer.

Several nurses caught Ebola. Because the US chose virtue signaling over security and didn't cancel all flights from the region, a man with Ebola entered the United States and later died. Had things gone just a bit differently he would've started an epidemic.


And at the very LEAAAST, the fact that this physician was one of our own should have awakened some moral or patriotic sympathy -- in which case, he would express his concerns with the hope that all goes well, that they're able to get the treatment that they need without worsening the domestic epidemic.

It's called pragmatism. its not patriotic to bring a deadly disease here, lol
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
trschard
Posts: 9
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8/24/2016 3:56:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person. : :

Try come into California with fruit from another state. They will treat you like some criminal if you're hiding it. Donald Trump is not any worse than Californians who don't want diseases coming into that state that could wipe our their economy.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/24/2016 4:09:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:55:39 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:49:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:33:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
What? He's a bad person for not wanting to bring a deadly disease home when we could care for them over there?

That's called not being an idiot. I wouldn't bring them back either.

Level with me. If it was the case that there was no secure way to transport the patients or that the risk of transmission to the general public upon their arrival was high or if there was indeed a way to provide them sufficient treatment in Africa (and treatment that could arrive in time), then it would indeed be stupid to bring them into the United States. This is a careful and objective assessment of risk that only the technicians, physicians, and epidemiologists are really qualified to perform. Absolute deference to "experts" is stupid... and that's not what I expect of trump .... but cautious deference is not stupid.

Always trust the medical establishment! They only have your best interest in mind!

By the way, have you gotten checked for bad blood? http://exhibits.hsl.virginia.edu...

I literally just said that absolute deference is stupid.... even when I anticipate and preempt whatever caricature you're likely to produce in response, you still can't help yourself lol

He can't be so impulsive. He can't keep insisting that people who know vastly more than he does and are making very difficult decisions with complex considerations (many of which he is, perhaps, not aware of) are all just incompetent. Common sense and intuition will not get you to every answer.

Several nurses caught Ebola. Because the US chose virtue signaling over security and didn't cancel all flights from the region, a man with Ebola entered the United States and later died. Had things gone just a bit differently he would've started an epidemic.

Treating dying american patients in America is 'virtue signaling' now?

And at the very LEAAAST, the fact that this physician was one of our own should have awakened some moral or patriotic sympathy -- in which case, he would express his concerns with the hope that all goes well, that they're able to get the treatment that they need without worsening the domestic epidemic.

It's called pragmatism. its not patriotic to bring a deadly disease here, lol

This response is a profound disappointment -- not so much because I disagree with you, but because it is, objectively, an incompetent rebuttal, seeing as you've responded to virtually none of the substance of what I wrote. Let's recap if you want to give it another go:

1) The decision to bring the patients here required a calculation of risk. Medical experts contend that ebola does not spread easily, there are modern, secure methods for quarantining patients, so the risk of transmission by flying the doctor and nurse home are low. Alternatively, there is a high likelihood that they would die if they're not immediately taken to a prepared, modern treatment facility. (Retrospect shows us that they were right and the ebola epidemic did not get worse -- meanwhile they saved the doctor and nurse's lives)

2) Absolute deference --> bad. Cautious deference --> good.

3) One can be nervous about the spread of the disease without fear mongering and insisting that everyone is incompetent except him. A normal person would express hope that things go well, even if he would have felt better if the patients remained in africa.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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8/24/2016 4:10:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

Um, let's see, someone who tweets on it, or someone who gets paid $225K to say basically the same thing:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com...
000ike
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8/24/2016 4:18:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:55:39 PM, thett3 wrote:

Several nurses caught Ebola. Because the US chose virtue signaling over security and didn't cancel all flights from the region, a man with Ebola entered the United States and later died. Had things gone just a bit differently he would've started an epidemic.

If I were you, I would be very careful not to misuse this term .... certainly not to apply it to actions that most people would consider "virtuous" without pretense. The next time you encounter something that actually IS virtue signaling, you'll find that the term no longer has the same potency... much like the term 'racism'
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Capital
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8/24/2016 4:21:22 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

Dont be dumb

If there was an Ebola epidemic you wouldnt have even been saying this.
Im not a Nazi
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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8/24/2016 4:22:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:09:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:55:39 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:49:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:33:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
What? He's a bad person for not wanting to bring a deadly disease home when we could care for them over there?

That's called not being an idiot. I wouldn't bring them back either.

Level with me. If it was the case that there was no secure way to transport the patients or that the risk of transmission to the general public upon their arrival was high or if there was indeed a way to provide them sufficient treatment in Africa (and treatment that could arrive in time), then it would indeed be stupid to bring them into the United States. This is a careful and objective assessment of risk that only the technicians, physicians, and epidemiologists are really qualified to perform. Absolute deference to "experts" is stupid... and that's not what I expect of trump .... but cautious deference is not stupid.

Always trust the medical establishment! They only have your best interest in mind!

By the way, have you gotten checked for bad blood? http://exhibits.hsl.virginia.edu...

I literally just said that absolute deference is stupid.... even when I anticipate and preempt whatever caricature you're likely to produce in response, you still can't help yourself lol

Oh, so "absolute deference" is bad, but someone is a bad person if they complain in a way you don't like. Got it.

The medical establishment does not have your best interest in mind. It's perfectly justified to be skeptical of them, and of attempts to bring a deadly disease to the United States.


He can't be so impulsive. He can't keep insisting that people who know vastly more than he does and are making very difficult decisions with complex considerations (many of which he is, perhaps, not aware of) are all just incompetent. Common sense and intuition will not get you to every answer.

Several nurses caught Ebola. Because the US chose virtue signaling over security and didn't cancel all flights from the region, a man with Ebola entered the United States and later died. Had things gone just a bit differently he would've started an epidemic.

Treating dying american patients in America is 'virtue signaling' now?

No, but not canceling flights from the region is. Someone slipped through. TRUMPS THIRD TWEET WAS LITERALLY CORRECT.

Again, tweak the circumstances just slightly and an epidemic would've been caused by our government allowing people from the region to continue to come. This was not a doctor or someone else trying to help--it was just some random guy.


And at the very LEAAAST, the fact that this physician was one of our own should have awakened some moral or patriotic sympathy -- in which case, he would express his concerns with the hope that all goes well, that they're able to get the treatment that they need without worsening the domestic epidemic.

It's called pragmatism. its not patriotic to bring a deadly disease here, lol

This response is a profound disappointment -- not so much because I disagree with you, but because it is, objectively, an incompetent rebuttal, seeing as you've responded to virtually none of the substance of what I wrote. Let's recap if you want to give it another go:

1) The decision to bring the patients here required a calculation of risk. Medical experts contend that ebola does not spread easily, there are modern, secure methods for quarantining patients, so the risk of transmission by flying the doctor and nurse home are low.

Several nurses caught ebola in the United States from treating the patients. In slightly different circumstances, it would've spread. You literally don't even remember what happened.

Alternatively, there is a high likelihood that they would die if they're not immediately taken to a prepared, modern treatment facility. (Retrospect shows us that they were right and the ebola epidemic did not get worse -- meanwhile they saved the doctor and nurse's lives)

2) Absolute deference --> bad. Cautious deference --> good.

Got it. We can be cautious but complaining in the wrong way is icky


3) One can be nervous about the spread of the disease without fear mongering and insisting that everyone is incompetent except him. A normal person would express hope that things go well, even if he would have felt better if the patients remained in africa.

Got it. So it's okay to want them to stay there but it's not okay to say it in a way you don't like.

This is why no one takes the left seriously. You're more interested in mean words than you are in substance
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/24/2016 4:35:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

I remember Ebola (and other similarity cases), conservatives were on full freak-out. I swear, they live in such a state of terror that falling leaves make them run.

I have no idea what the world outside the door of a conservative looks like through their eyes, but I bet it would make a great, and explosion filled, movie.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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8/24/2016 4:49:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:35:28 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

I remember Ebola (and other similarity cases), conservatives were on full freak-out. I swear, they live in such a state of terror that falling leaves make them run.

I have no idea what the world outside the door of a conservative looks like through their eyes, but I bet it would make a great, and explosion filled, movie.

Directed by Michael Bay.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
TBR
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8/24/2016 5:08:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:49:23 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/24/2016 4:35:28 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

I remember Ebola (and other similarity cases), conservatives were on full freak-out. I swear, they live in such a state of terror that falling leaves make them run.

I have no idea what the world outside the door of a conservative looks like through their eyes, but I bet it would make a great, and explosion filled, movie.


Directed by Michael Bay.

Exactly.

They need to stop watching this stuff if its going to give them nightmares.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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8/24/2016 5:50:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 4:35:28 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

I remember Ebola (and other similarity cases), conservatives were on full freak-out. I swear, they live in such a state of terror that falling leaves make them run.

I have no idea what the world outside the door of a conservative looks like through their eyes, but I bet it would make a great, and explosion filled, movie.

It was just about everyone that was freaking out, not just conservatives. The only ones that weren't freaking out were medical professionals and people closely associated with them, and even they got a bit irate when that one retarded nurse violated quarantine procedures because they were 'oppressive'.

Generally, the response to a disease like Ebola is manifold:

Normal response: Panic. Likely born out of ignorance of the details of the disease, and born out of ignorance of the medical facts. Common and understandable, so any address of the disease realistically takes the potential for panic into consideration. In the end, over-response can be good; it's better for people to be overly cautious than not cautious enough. This being the popular response, it also 'trickles up' to the political establishment and media, which usually overblows the threat of any epidemic. This is where Trump's stance falls.

Informed response: Measured concern and caution. Ebola isn't some joke, it has an incredibly high mortality rate, and is very contagious in close quarters. First World countries are generally good at containing infections, but that is only because they take the disease very seriously, don't overestimate their understanding of it, take every precaution under the sun, and minimize risk as much as possible. So doctors and other medical professionals usually play on the safe side here. The educated response also takes panic into consideration and accounts for it, usually by extending protections even further.

Stupid, dangerous response: 'It's nothing to worry about.' These are the only people who cause a problem during any epidemic, and they are the ones who should have the searing light of criticism directed at them. They are a distinct minority, but they exist, and their existence is what jeopardizes any quarantine procedure. The archetype of this is the nurse who, because she has some training in medicine, decided that the recommended quarantine shouldn't apply to her. Was there a small chance of her transmitting the disease? Yes, very small. But that's why quarantine exists: to eliminate very small chances. People who think that they 'know better' and demand stricter protections, or who overreact to the threat through things like sanitizing everything don't cause harm outside of small economic costs. People who think that they 'know better' can can therefore violate rules that they decide are overly strict and harmful are the ones who cause outbreaks in Western countries and jeopardize the efforts of everyone following the rules, as well as fanning the flames of the first groups panic.

What you saw with Trump was basically a collision between the first and second stances. More caution being demanded, and the educated pushing back. It was an incidence of that line of policy being drawn. It just wasn't that big of a deal when you compare it to the other debates being had in the public square at the time, which is why it was mostly ignored until it became politically expedient to drag it into the light before our country's infamously piscine memory span.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/24/2016 6:36:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".

Those tweets alone don't suffice to make him a bad person ... though they may certainly serve as evidence.

And is it really so much to ask that the man who endeavors to be president of the United States should possess calm-headed reason and compassion beyond the average?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
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8/24/2016 6:37:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 6:36:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".

Those tweets alone don't suffice to make him a bad person ... though they may certainly serve as evidence.

And is it really so much to ask that the man who endeavors to be president of the United States should possess calm-headed reason and compassion beyond the average?

Sure, in general I agree that his tone and style are out of line for a president.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/24/2016 9:36:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 5:50:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/24/2016 4:35:28 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/24/2016 3:01:45 PM, 000ike wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

An american doctor and a nurse were infected with ebola while treating patients in west africa. The pair would have likely died if they were not flown to an Emory University treatment facility in Atlanta. Here's how donald Trump reacted to their arrival:

Tweet 1: "Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days - now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!"

Tweet 2: "Stop the EBOLA patients from entering the U.S. Treat them, at the highest level, over there. THE UNITED STATES HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS!"

A few tweets later: "I am starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with President Obama's mental health. Why won't he stop the flights. Psycho!"

My question to trump supporters is this.... are you daft? no really. This doesn't even have anything to do with your hatred of multiculturalism and globalism and your distrust of the establishment. That's all well and good. But these were Americans ... Americans who fell ill while volunteering their time and expertise to stem the suffering in west africa. It's one thing to hope and expect that the technicians will adequately quarantine the patients -- which really wasn't in doubt, if you remember the imagery from when they arrived. It's one thing to cautiously defer to the judgment of the people who understand this disease and understand how not to spread it. It's something else entirely to be crying "KEEP THEM OUT!" out of fear and selfish, reactionary stupidity.

Trump has all the virtue and intellectual maturity of an inbred chimp. He is literally a bad person.

I remember Ebola (and other similarity cases), conservatives were on full freak-out. I swear, they live in such a state of terror that falling leaves make them run.

I have no idea what the world outside the door of a conservative looks like through their eyes, but I bet it would make a great, and explosion filled, movie.

It was just about everyone that was freaking out, not just conservatives. The only ones that weren't freaking out were medical professionals and people closely associated with them, and even they got a bit irate when that one retarded nurse violated quarantine procedures because they were 'oppressive'.

Not what I saw. I saw conservatives flipping the hell out everyday. I know of few of my more liberal friends were overly concerned.


Generally, the response to a disease like Ebola is manifold:

Normal response: Panic. Likely born out of ignorance of the details of the disease, and born out of ignorance of the medical facts. Common and understandable, so any address of the disease realistically takes the potential for panic into consideration. In the end, over-response can be good; it's better for people to be overly cautious than not cautious enough. This being the popular response, it also 'trickles up' to the political establishment and media, which usually overblows the threat of any epidemic. This is where Trump's stance falls.

Informed response: Measured concern and caution. Ebola isn't some joke, it has an incredibly high mortality rate, and is very contagious in close quarters. First World countries are generally good at containing infections, but that is only because they take the disease very seriously, don't overestimate their understanding of it, take every precaution under the sun, and minimize risk as much as possible. So doctors and other medical professionals usually play on the safe side here. The educated response also takes panic into consideration and accounts for it, usually by extending protections even further.

Stupid, dangerous response: 'It's nothing to worry about.' These are the only people who cause a problem during any epidemic, and they are the ones who should have the searing light of criticism directed at them. They are a distinct minority, but they exist, and their existence is what jeopardizes any quarantine procedure. The archetype of this is the nurse who, because she has some training in medicine, decided that the recommended quarantine shouldn't apply to her. Was there a small chance of her transmitting the disease? Yes, very small. But that's why quarantine exists: to eliminate very small chances. People who think that they 'know better' and demand stricter protections, or who overreact to the threat through things like sanitizing everything don't cause harm outside of small economic costs. People who think that they 'know better' can can therefore violate rules that they decide are overly strict and harmful are the ones who cause outbreaks in Western countries and jeopardize the efforts of everyone following the rules, as well as fanning the flames of the first groups panic.

What you saw with Trump was basically a collision between the first and second stances. More caution being demanded, and the educated pushing back. It was an incidence of that line of policy being drawn. It just wasn't that big of a deal when you compare it to the other debates being had in the public square at the time, which is why it was mostly ignored until it became politically expedient to drag it into the light before our country's infamously piscine memory span.

I agree with the above.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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8/24/2016 10:03:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".

Trump said this without any idea of the probability the disease spreads or assessing the risk. Trump repeatably blames others and manufactures outrage while being completely ignorant on the issue. Who knows, maybe if Obama decided not to let them in, Trump would have tweeted about how incompetent our leaders were in not being able to bring them back.

I am sure the people who made this decision applied the correct science to determine the right thing to do. The fact that Trump can so easily condemn people to die, and that he takes every opportunity to blame others and manufacture outrage against makes him a bad person
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,291
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8/24/2016 11:28:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 10:03:16 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".

Trump said this without any idea of the probability the disease spreads or assessing the risk. Trump repeatably blames others and manufactures outrage while being completely ignorant on the issue. Who knows, maybe if Obama decided not to let them in, Trump would have tweeted about how incompetent our leaders were in not being able to bring them back.

I am sure the people who made this decision applied the correct science to determine the right thing to do. The fact that Trump can so easily condemn people to die, and that he takes every opportunity to blame others and manufacture outrage against makes him a bad person

If you don't know the risks, err on caution, especially if millions of lives are at stake.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/25/2016 2:10:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 11:28:58 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/24/2016 10:03:16 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".

Trump said this without any idea of the probability the disease spreads or assessing the risk. Trump repeatably blames others and manufactures outrage while being completely ignorant on the issue. Who knows, maybe if Obama decided not to let them in, Trump would have tweeted about how incompetent our leaders were in not being able to bring them back.

I am sure the people who made this decision applied the correct science to determine the right thing to do. The fact that Trump can so easily condemn people to die, and that he takes every opportunity to blame others and manufacture outrage against makes him a bad person

If you don't know the risks, err on caution, especially if millions of lives are at stake.

But we did! All you had to do was stop listening to the crazy right know nothing radio idiots, and listen to the people who knew better.

The information was right there for everyone to see, but the ever fearful ram around like chickens with their heads cutoff
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,291
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8/25/2016 3:19:32 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 2:10:48 AM, TBR wrote:

The information was right there for everyone to see, but the ever fearful ran around like chickens with their heads cutoff

Life is not worth living in a state of complacency.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/25/2016 3:28:59 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 3:19:32 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/25/2016 2:10:48 AM, TBR wrote:

The information was right there for everyone to see, but the ever fearful ran around like chickens with their heads cutoff

Life is not worth living in a state of complacency.

Life is not worth living frighten by every bump in the night.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,291
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8/25/2016 4:14:20 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 3:28:59 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/25/2016 3:19:32 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/25/2016 2:10:48 AM, TBR wrote:

The information was right there for everyone to see, but the ever fearful ran around like chickens with their heads cutoff

Life is not worth living in a state of complacency.

Life is not worth living frighten by every bump in the night.

Sure it is.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/25/2016 4:48:25 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/25/2016 4:14:20 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/25/2016 3:28:59 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/25/2016 3:19:32 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/25/2016 2:10:48 AM, TBR wrote:

The information was right there for everyone to see, but the ever fearful ran around like chickens with their heads cutoff

Life is not worth living in a state of complacency.

Life is not worth living frighten by every bump in the night.

Sure it is.

I am happy to live my life not cowering under my bed at the thoughts of
Ebola
MUSLIMS
Homofags
The devil

Or much of anything else. For example. I like driving fast. I am spending the summer in WI. I have to commute to Chicago a couple days a week. When I hit the country roads I can hit 100 easy. 100 on these roads is enervating. It makes life real, and real fun. Life is only worth living when you make the attempt to live, not just survive.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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8/25/2016 3:58:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 10:03:16 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/24/2016 6:16:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I don't see how this makes him a bad person. The notion that you would want to prevent carriers of a deadly and highly contagious disease from entering your country has a lot of plausibility to it. Maybe the worse would not come to pass, but this is a case in which "better safe than sorry" applies even if the risk is 1 percent. Of course this policy would be out of fear and selfishness, if by fear you mean fear of dying and selfishness you mean "concern for welfare of the country".

Trump said this without any idea of the probability the disease spreads or assessing the risk. Trump repeatably blames others and manufactures outrage while being completely ignorant on the issue. Who knows, maybe if Obama decided not to let them in, Trump would have tweeted about how incompetent our leaders were in not being able to bring them back.

I am sure the people who made this decision applied the correct science to determine the right thing to do. The fact that Trump can so easily condemn people to die, and that he takes every opportunity to blame others and manufacture outrage against makes him a bad person

I don't doubt for a second that Trump's motivation in posting those tweets was to score political points, nor do I doubt that he likes to give his opinion on issues he knows next to nothing about. I just happen not to think that the policy he's proposing is unreasonable, even though it goes action the medical consensus. The medical community can only give their best estimate of risk, not whether that risk is justified. That's a political decision. However, Trump's certainty regarding the consequences of letting the sick doctors into the country is a little absurd.