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What Is Wrong With A Woman's Body?

Willows
Posts: 2,084
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8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 1:03:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?
Yes. Having government impose a faith-based dress code should offend anyone who embraces basic civil liberties.

Australia and France differ from us in that sense, as they are far more authoritarian than we expect. Australia, for instance, imposes a fine for individuals who refuse to vote. It's a very different mindset.
Danimal4NU
Posts: 53
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8/26/2016 3:43:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Granted the burkini is representative of repressive attitudes towards women but If a women wants to wear one it's her business. You aren't going to integrate her by making society less free and creating unnecessary division. Overbearing secularism inhibiting freedom has to be fought just like overbearing religion.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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8/26/2016 4:10:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 3:43:28 PM, Danimal4NU wrote:
Granted the burkini is representative of repressive attitudes towards women but If a women wants to wear one it's her business. You aren't going to integrate her by making society less free and creating unnecessary division. Overbearing secularism inhibiting freedom has to be fought just like overbearing religion.

Agreed. It is a shame that Islam puts the burden of sexualized male behavior upon the woman rather than expecting men to control themselves. It is no reason to restrict bikini at the beach for any freedom loving person as you mention.

In effect France has banned Muslim women from the beach further isolating and segregating their Muslim populations.
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 5:55:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 4:10:01 PM, slo1 wrote:
In effect France has banned Muslim women from the beach further isolating and segregating their Muslim populations.
A French court has suspended the ban (http://www.reuters.com...).
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 6:01:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?

Nope. It's not our job to adapt to oppressive cultures that move to our countries. You want to oppress women by covering them up, move to Pakistan and tell us how great it is.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 6:04:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 1:03:48 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?
Yes. Having government impose a faith-based dress code should offend anyone who embraces basic civil liberties.

Australia and France differ from us in that sense, as they are far more authoritarian than we expect. Australia, for instance, imposes a fine for individuals who refuse to vote. It's a very different mindset.

So instead of forcing them to adapt to secular law, we should enable them to stay in a backwards mindset that is in conflict with democracy. To allow such dress is to put a religion over already established secular norms
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 6:13:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:04:27 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
So instead of forcing them to adapt to secular law, we should enable them to stay in a backwards mindset that is in conflict with democracy. To allow such dress is to put a religion over already established secular norms
This is how one recognizes an alt-right troll: foreign cultures are presented as "backwards" by definition and government has a right to suppress non-white minorities as it deems fit. Power through authority.

But of course it's colored in "democratic," even quasi-"liberal" lingo.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 6:17:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:13:38 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 6:04:27 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
So instead of forcing them to adapt to secular law, we should enable them to stay in a backwards mindset that is in conflict with democracy. To allow such dress is to put a religion over already established secular norms
This is how one recognizes an alt-right troll: foreign cultures are presented as "backwards" by definition and government has a right to suppress non-white minorities as it deems fit. Power through authority.

But of course it's colored in "democratic," even quasi-"liberal" lingo.

Islam is not a race. Any religion be it Christian, Buhhdist, Hindu, Islam, other has no right to wear attire that makes you unidentifiable or able to conceal weapons is wrong and a copout to be weak andnot have to face the oppositions trying to impose its will on your society. Conform or get out.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 6:19:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:13:38 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 6:04:27 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
So instead of forcing them to adapt to secular law, we should enable them to stay in a backwards mindset that is in conflict with democracy. To allow such dress is to put a religion over already established secular norms
This is how one recognizes an alt-right troll: foreign cultures are presented as "backwards" by definition and government has a right to suppress non-white minorities as it deems fit. Power through authority.

But of course it's colored in "democratic," even quasi-"liberal" lingo.

I have no quasi liberal lingo. If Muslims don't like our ways...there's the door. Hit it. If you don't allow smoking in your house, I don't come in and smoke.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 6:24:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:17:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Islam is not a race.
Hardly the case I made. I used the word culture. And the ummah -- the Islamic community of believers -- makes a worldwide culture.

Any religion be it Christian, Buhhdist, Hindu, Islam, other has no right to wear attire that makes you unidentifiable or able to conceal weapons is wrong and a copout to be weak andnot have to face the oppositions trying to impose its will on your society.
Oh, right. The fear of burka terrorism on the beaches. Must have more government to protect the dress code of the non-Christian citizenry. Derrrrp.

Conform or get out.
No. You're the one who needs to understand what it means to be an American. Liberties and all that jazz. Get yourself one of those pocket Constitutions.
Capital
Posts: 588
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8/26/2016 6:44:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?

No thry shouldnt wear it. I dont know why muslim men judt want ti rape anything that has sone skin
Im not a Nazi
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 7:03:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:24:31 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 6:17:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Islam is not a race.
Hardly the case I made. I used the word culture. And the ummah -- the Islamic community of believers -- makes a worldwide culture.

Any religion be it Christian, Buhhdist, Hindu, Islam, other has no right to wear attire that makes you unidentifiable or able to conceal weapons is wrong and a copout to be weak andnot have to face the oppositions trying to impose its will on your society.
Oh, right. The fear of burka terrorism on the beaches. Must have more government to protect the dress code of the non-Christian citizenry. Derrrrp.

Conform or get out.
No. You're the one who needs to understand what it means to be an American. Liberties and all that jazz. Get yourself one of those pocket Constitutions.

Some cultures suck. That's why they keep immigrating. But since they know nothing else, they bring their sucky culture here. We don't want a culture where women are cattle. If you want to be a sexist quit lying and claiming to be a liberal.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 7:06:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:24:31 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 6:17:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Islam is not a race.
Hardly the case I made. I used the word culture. And the ummah -- the Islamic community of believers -- makes a worldwide culture.

Any religion be it Christian, Buhhdist, Hindu, Islam, other has no right to wear attire that makes you unidentifiable or able to conceal weapons is wrong and a copout to be weak andnot have to face the oppositions trying to impose its will on your society.
Oh, right. The fear of burka terrorism on the beaches. Must have more government to protect the dress code of the non-Christian citizenry. Derrrrp.

Conform or get out.
No. You're the one who needs to understand what it means to be an American. Liberties and all that jazz. Get yourself one of those pocket Constitutions.

Oh please. Tell me what it "means to be an American". Allow culutures congentally hostile to the West to dictate our laws and social norms and accept oppression of women as some kind of mutant liberal who supports feminism unless it's of course a Muslim needing feminism to take her back.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 7:09:02 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 6:24:31 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 6:17:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Islam is not a race.
Hardly the case I made. I used the word culture. And the ummah -- the Islamic community of believers -- makes a worldwide culture.

Any religion be it Christian, Buhhdist, Hindu, Islam, other has no right to wear attire that makes you unidentifiable or able to conceal weapons is wrong and a copout to be weak andnot have to face the oppositions trying to impose its will on your society.
Oh, right. The fear of burka terrorism on the beaches. Must have more government to protect the dress code of the non-Christian citizenry. Derrrrp.

Conform or get out.
No. You're the one who needs to understand what it means to be an American. Liberties and all that jazz. Get yourself one of those pocket Constitutions.

Basically, if it were not a Muslim the behavior is sexist. But if it's a Muslim liberal norms go out the window to comply with a nonsecular culture to fulfill some bs attempt at self righteousness. But we can't defend against racism and sexism if we have to screw multiculturism to do so. That's weak.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 7:46:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 7:03:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Some cultures suck. That's why they keep immigrating. But since they know nothing else, they bring their sucky culture here. We don't want a culture where women are cattle. If you want to be a sexist quit lying and claiming to be a liberal.
I know who and what you are. And this primal scream of white supremacy, the echo of a small-minded fringe within a fringe, makes one thing abundantly clear:
your impotence.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 7:46:10 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 7:03:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Some cultures suck. That's why they keep immigrating. But since they know nothing else, they bring their sucky culture here. We don't want a culture where women are cattle. If you want to be a sexist quit lying and claiming to be a liberal.
I know who and what you are. And this primal scream of white supremacy, the echo of a small-minded fringe within a fringe, makes one thing abundantly clear:
your impotence.

I'm not white. I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 8:17:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I'm not white.
Har har.

I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
It isn't common sense, it's racist ideology.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,079
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8/26/2016 8:21:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:17:00 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I'm not white.
Har har.

Brontoraptor was actually born into a Muslim family. Given this, he probably isn't white, seeing as how very few ethnically white people are Muslim.

I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
It isn't common sense, it's racist ideology.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 8:24:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:21:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Brontoraptor was actually born into a Muslim family. Given this, he probably isn't white, seeing as how very few ethnically white people are Muslim.
"Muslim" isn't a race. And Arabs from the Levant -- you know, Syria and Lebanon -- are Caucasians.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 8:42:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:17:00 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I'm not white.
Har har.

I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
It isn't common sense, it's racist ideology.

Saudi Arabia isn't allowing in nonMuslims and execute lawbreakers. Do they have that right being a "different culture" or are Western countries the "moral standard"?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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8/26/2016 8:44:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:42:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:17:00 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I'm not white.
Har har.

I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
It isn't common sense, it's racist ideology.

Saudi Arabia isn't allowing in nonMuslims and execute lawbreakers. Do they have that right being a "different culture" or are Western countries the "moral standard"?

Is your mother a Muslim, craptor?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 8:48:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:44:59 PM, desmac wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:42:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:17:00 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I'm not white.
Har har.

I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
It isn't common sense, it's racist ideology.

Saudi Arabia isn't allowing in nonMuslims and execute lawbreakers. Do they have that right being a "different culture" or are Western countries the "moral standard"?

Is your mother a Muslim, craptor?

When she was still around.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
NHN
Posts: 624
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8/26/2016 8:49:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:42:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Saudi Arabia isn't allowing in nonMuslims and execute lawbreakers. Do they have that right being a "different culture" or are Western countries the "moral standard"?
Move to Saudi Arabia if that's your litmus test for liberty. That is not what America is about, so go find yourself a copy of that pocket Constitution. Start there.

And how about admitting that you're Caucasian, irrespective of which origin this involves? Are you ashamed of your heritage?
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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8/26/2016 9:13:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?

It actually has been lifted recently due to the backlash, I believe.

I don't really see the point of a ban on them really.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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8/26/2016 9:16:40 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 9:13:19 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?

It actually has been lifted recently due to the backlash, I believe.

I don't really see the point of a ban on them really.

Because swimming with a full garment is hard and dangerous?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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8/26/2016 9:39:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 9:16:40 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/26/2016 9:13:19 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?

It actually has been lifted recently due to the backlash, I believe.

I don't really see the point of a ban on them really.

Because swimming with a full garment is hard and dangerous?

Depends. Burkinis are pretty similar to scuba diving suits. Celebrities like Nigella Lawson, have actually worn a burkini-like swimwear to the beach on certain occasions, even though she's not a Muslim. She had worn it to protect her pale skin from the sun. Most people only hate the idea of this burkini due to the connotations that we associate to it.

The deputy mayor of Nice has justified the ban on the burkini by insisting it makes people feel "unsafe", not because it's hard or dangerous to swim in.

Full body suits have come a long way. Burkinis, generally, are made out of a thin lightweight material that doesn't absorb water like cloth (and old full body suits) do. This means that they wouldn't cause a person to drown more easily. It's literally made out of the same material a swim shirt is made out of. If it's not made of wool or cotton, I don't see why one should have a problem with it.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,675
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8/26/2016 10:15:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 12:42:27 PM, Willows wrote:
The burka issue is back again, this time in France where women wearing the "birkini" are being banned on beaches, the reason being that it is an offence against a secular society.
In Australia, Bondi Beach bans the wearing of any restrictive garments in the water as a safety issue.
Should women be allowed to wear birkinis at public beaches?

I would have voted against the ban if I were in their parliament, but I could care less if it is banned. Muslims need to assimilate with western culture and not bring oppressive traditions.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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8/27/2016 2:44:22 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 5:55:14 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 4:10:01 PM, slo1 wrote:
In effect France has banned Muslim women from the beach further isolating and segregating their Muslim populations.
A French court has suspended the ban (http://www.reuters.com...).

That is good news. It reminds me that the single most important organization in the US may very well be the ACLU.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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8/27/2016 7:32:37 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/26/2016 8:48:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:44:59 PM, desmac wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:42:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:17:00 PM, NHN wrote:
At 8/26/2016 8:14:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I'm not white.
Har har.

I do have the common sense to see that only white nations are being asked to become multicultural as all other ethnicities laugh and reject the notion as absurd to defend their present culture.
It isn't common sense, it's racist ideology.

Saudi Arabia isn't allowing in nonMuslims and execute lawbreakers. Do they have that right being a "different culture" or are Western countries the "moral standard"?

Is your mother a Muslim, craptor?

When she was still around.

What were her views on modest dress?