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The hypocrisy of banning burqinis

1harderthanyouthink
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8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Burqini: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com...

Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Ban all, or ban none. Else, you break the concept of equality. For anything but the latter, religious freedom is at risk.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls, of the Socialist Party:

"The burkini is not a new swimsuit fashion trend. It's the translation of a political project for a counter-society based on woman's enslavement. There is an idea that, by nature, women are indecent, impure so should cover themselves entirely. That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."

Okay, Mr. Valls. Onto your constitution.

"France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralized basis."

Well, on the point of secularism, Mr. Valls, not only must a government replace all religious laws with civil laws to be a secular state - it must not favor one religion over the other to protect freedom of religion. Else, the state is interfering with religious matters and matters of the individual, beyond its separated bounds.

And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.

So, there's my opinion on the French local bans of burqinis.
"It's the PUPPY IN THE SKY!" -TBR's kid

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Upiter
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8/29/2016 3:22:56 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
The French are only doing this as an attempt to preserve their cultural heritage and increase integration, since they failed miserably down the line at border preservation. Nuns incidentally are at least a part of France's cultural history and doesn't have a huge issue integrating them. All in all, Europeans will be struggling with their new residents for possible an eternity thanks to their flawed affinity to multiculturalism or diversity.
brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 3:25:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Burqini: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com...

Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Ban all, or ban none. Else, you break the concept of equality. For anything but the latter, religious freedom is at risk.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls, of the Socialist Party:

"The burkini is not a new swimsuit fashion trend. It's the translation of a political project for a counter-society based on woman's enslavement. There is an idea that, by nature, women are indecent, impure so should cover themselves entirely. That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."

Okay, Mr. Valls. Onto your constitution.

"France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralized basis."

Well, on the point of secularism, Mr. Valls, not only must a government replace all religious laws with civil laws to be a secular state - it must not favor one religion over the other to protect freedom of religion. Else, the state is interfering with religious matters and matters of the individual, beyond its separated bounds.

And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.

So, there's my opinion on the French local bans of burqinis.

Equality is a bs liberal word. No two people onplanet Earth are equal nor should they be. Hard workers are not equal to sloths. A pee wee league player is not equal to Michael Jordan. What equality? Show us this equality in force and I'll show you a bunch of hard workers that lay down as we watch the system fall down. If Islam doesn't like it, there's the door. If secular people or Christians covered up women the liberals would scream bloody murder. Oh wait...
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1harderthanyouthink
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8/29/2016 3:26:37 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:25:01 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

If secular people or Christians covered up women the liberals would scream bloody murder. Oh wait...

Uh huh
"It's the PUPPY IN THE SKY!" -TBR's kid

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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 3:28:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:26:37 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:25:01 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

If secular people or Christians covered up women the liberals would scream bloody murder. Oh wait...

Uh huh

You've squeeled at everything they've ever done. It's hault religion at all costs...unless it's Islam.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 3:30:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:26:37 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:25:01 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

If secular people or Christians covered up women the liberals would scream bloody murder. Oh wait...

Uh huh

Your complacent "uh huh" shows what you are. A feminist. Unless it is Islam. Anti religion. Unless it's Islam. Pro gay rights. Unless it's Islam. Seperation of church and state. Unless...it's Islam. Maybe we should paint an "H" on your chest so everyone will know...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
1harderthanyouthink
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8/29/2016 3:34:35 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.
"It's the PUPPY IN THE SKY!" -TBR's kid

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YYW
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8/29/2016 3:56:06 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Personally, I think it should be a law that if you're going to be on a beach, you must bear skin. For men, speedos or swimming trunk type clothes. For women, bikinis or one pieces. Or just topless beaches.
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SolonKR
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8/29/2016 4:06:53 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:25:01 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Equality is a bs liberal word. No two people on planet Earth are equal nor should they be.

And you call yourself a defender of western values? The fundamental equality and worth of all human beings is literally one of the main ideas of western thought. Certainly, the burqini is not a symbol of western thought, but the idea that the person wearing it has the right to do so is western. A burqini is not going to kill anybody or oppress them, and banning it is literally violates the freedom of expression. If anything the burqini makes it easier for Muslim women to integrate, not harder.
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Greyparrot
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8/29/2016 4:39:53 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 4:25:45 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
It's good to see France is becoming more nationalist; Islam can get out of their culture and never had a place in their culture.

France is racist.
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.
Upiter
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8/29/2016 5:19:17 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 4:39:53 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/29/2016 4:25:45 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
It's good to see France is becoming more nationalist; Islam can get out of their culture and never had a place in their culture.

France is racist.

If that was so they wouldn't have so many people of foreign origin in their borders and wouldn't be victims of terrorist attacks every few weeks.
UtherPenguin
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8/29/2016 5:44:28 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
"That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."


Universial declaration of the rights of Man, Article 10:
" No one shall be disquieted on account of his opinions, including his religious views, provided their manifestation does not disturb the public order established by law."(http://avalon.law.yale.edu...)

I don't know how, in any context that a impartial, rational human being could come to the conclusion that modest swimwear is "upsetting public order", How the flying fvck does that take precedent over a genocidal terrorist state declaring war on your country and killings hundreds of your civilians in less than a year. Trying to fathom the sheer hypocritical stupidity of this controversy is nothing short of futile.
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NHN
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8/29/2016 6:03:09 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 5:44:28 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I don't know how, in any context that a impartial, rational human being could come to the conclusion that modest swimwear is "upsetting public order", How the flying fvck does that take precedent over a genocidal terrorist state declaring war on your country and killings hundreds of your civilians in less than a year. Trying to fathom the sheer hypocritical stupidity of this controversy is nothing short of futile.
There's the short (yet uncanny) answer: bigotry.

But a French court has suspended the ban (http://www.reuters.com...), which makes the topic moot -- for now.
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UtherPenguin
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8/29/2016 6:13:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 6:03:09 AM, NHN wrote:
At 8/29/2016 5:44:28 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I don't know how, in any context that a impartial, rational human being could come to the conclusion that modest swimwear is "upsetting public order", How the flying fvck does that take precedent over a genocidal terrorist state declaring war on your country and killings hundreds of your civilians in less than a year. Trying to fathom the sheer hypocritical stupidity of this controversy is nothing short of futile.
There's the short (yet uncanny) answer: bigotry.

But a French court has suspended the ban (http://www.reuters.com...), which makes the topic moot -- for now.

True, at least the French court still has some reason left in them -- for now at least.
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tejretics
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8/29/2016 10:30:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:56:06 AM, YYW wrote:
Personally, I think it should be a law that if you're going to be on a beach, you must bear skin. For men, speedos or swimming trunk type clothes. For women, bikinis or one pieces. Or just topless beaches.

Seriously? That law makes absolutely no sense, and is a direct infringement on individual liberty. I assume you're kidding, though.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass

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YYW
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8/29/2016 12:28:42 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 10:30:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:56:06 AM, YYW wrote:
Personally, I think it should be a law that if you're going to be on a beach, you must bear skin. For men, speedos or swimming trunk type clothes. For women, bikinis or one pieces. Or just topless beaches.

Seriously? That law makes absolutely no sense, and is a direct infringement on individual liberty. I assume you're kidding, though.

I am really serious. It's a safety issue. Also hygiene.
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slo1
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8/29/2016 2:13:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 12:28:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:30:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:56:06 AM, YYW wrote:
Personally, I think it should be a law that if you're going to be on a beach, you must bear skin. For men, speedos or swimming trunk type clothes. For women, bikinis or one pieces. Or just topless beaches.

Seriously? That law makes absolutely no sense, and is a direct infringement on individual liberty. I assume you're kidding, though.

I am really serious. It's a safety issue. Also hygiene.

Asinine. You obviously haven't been on a Northern California beach.
brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 5:06:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Burqini: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com...

Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Ban all, or ban none. Else, you break the concept of equality. For anything but the latter, religious freedom is at risk.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls, of the Socialist Party:

"The burkini is not a new swimsuit fashion trend. It's the translation of a political project for a counter-society based on woman's enslavement. There is an idea that, by nature, women are indecent, impure so should cover themselves entirely. That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."

Okay, Mr. Valls. Onto your constitution.

"France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralized basis."

Well, on the point of secularism, Mr. Valls, not only must a government replace all religious laws with civil laws to be a secular state - it must not favor one religion over the other to protect freedom of religion. Else, the state is interfering with religious matters and matters of the individual, beyond its separated bounds.

And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.

So, there's my opinion on the French local bans of burqinis.

Go to the Middle East and give us a report on how equal you were(if you survive). Apparently we are the only ones held to the standard of excepting things foreign to our culture. Burkas? Suck. Bukinis? Suck. These women don't want to be forced to cover up. That's why liberals should be taking a stand to free them from misogynistic oppression, not enabling the misogynists to abuse and oppress in the false guise that "it's their right".
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Greyparrot
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8/29/2016 5:19:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 12:28:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/29/2016 10:30:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:56:06 AM, YYW wrote:
Personally, I think it should be a law that if you're going to be on a beach, you must bear skin. For men, speedos or swimming trunk type clothes. For women, bikinis or one pieces. Or just topless beaches.

Seriously? That law makes absolutely no sense, and is a direct infringement on individual liberty. I assume you're kidding, though.

I am really serious. It's a safety issue. Also hygiene.

What is the hygiene issue?
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.
Greyparrot
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8/29/2016 5:22:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
The conundrum I see with immigration is that it seeks to enforce integration. Immigrants should volunteer to assimilate, not be coerced.
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.
tajshar2k
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8/29/2016 6:07:09 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Burqini: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com...

Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Ban all, or ban none. Else, you break the concept of equality. For anything but the latter, religious freedom is at risk.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls, of the Socialist Party:

"The burkini is not a new swimsuit fashion trend. It's the translation of a political project for a counter-society based on woman's enslavement. There is an idea that, by nature, women are indecent, impure so should cover themselves entirely. That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."

Okay, Mr. Valls. Onto your constitution.

"France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralized basis."

Well, on the point of secularism, Mr. Valls, not only must a government replace all religious laws with civil laws to be a secular state - it must not favor one religion over the other to protect freedom of religion. Else, the state is interfering with religious matters and matters of the individual, beyond its separated bounds.

And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.

So, there's my opinion on the French local bans of burqinis.

I agree. I do have to go by principle and oppose this ban. Muslim women have the right to look like Kylo Ren if they wish.
PetersSmith
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8/29/2016 8:32:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Burqini: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com...

Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Ban all, or ban none. Else, you break the concept of equality. For anything but the latter, religious freedom is at risk.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls, of the Socialist Party:

"The burkini is not a new swimsuit fashion trend. It's the translation of a political project for a counter-society based on woman's enslavement. There is an idea that, by nature, women are indecent, impure so should cover themselves entirely. That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."

Okay, Mr. Valls. Onto your constitution.

"France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralized basis."

Well, on the point of secularism, Mr. Valls, not only must a government replace all religious laws with civil laws to be a secular state - it must not favor one religion over the other to protect freedom of religion. Else, the state is interfering with religious matters and matters of the individual, beyond its separated bounds.

And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.

So, there's my opinion on the French local bans of burqinis.

We should just go all "Imperial State of Iran" on them.
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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 8:41:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 3:19:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Burqini: http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com...

Nuns: https://tbmwomenintheworld.files.wordpress.com...

Orthodox Jews: https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Ban all, or ban none. Else, you break the concept of equality. For anything but the latter, religious freedom is at risk.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls, of the Socialist Party:

"The burkini is not a new swimsuit fashion trend. It's the translation of a political project for a counter-society based on woman's enslavement. There is an idea that, by nature, women are indecent, impure so should cover themselves entirely. That is not compatible with the values of France and the Republic."

Okay, Mr. Valls. Onto your constitution.

"France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralized basis."

Well, on the point of secularism, Mr. Valls, not only must a government replace all religious laws with civil laws to be a secular state - it must not favor one religion over the other to protect freedom of religion. Else, the state is interfering with religious matters and matters of the individual, beyond its separated bounds.

And on the point of not ruling on the basis of religion, you are supporting the ban of both a piece of clothing and an expression of a single religion, when two other major religions known to Europe have very similar clothing that some women wear - yet you do not ban such clothing. Undoubtedly, all of these faiths have acted to suppress women - and anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring history for their own mental gymnastics.

It would be revisionist to call the burqini being worn as an expression of liberalism. However, it would also be against freedom of speech to ban any clothing.

So, there's my opinion on the French local bans of burqinis.

If you have no choice but to dress like a ninja, don't go swimming...
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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 8:49:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 4:06:53 AM, SolonKR wrote:
At 8/29/2016 3:25:01 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Equality is a bs liberal word. No two people on planet Earth are equal nor should they be.

And you call yourself a defender of western values? The fundamental equality and worth of all human beings is literally one of the main ideas of western thought. Certainly, the burqini is not a symbol of western thought, but the idea that the person wearing it has the right to do so is western. A burqini is not going to kill anybody or oppress them, and banning it is literally violates the freedom of expression. If anything the burqini makes it easier for Muslim women to integrate, not harder.

Our women cover their heads in Muslim nations. That's what we call equality. We honor their customs in their house. They honor our customs in our house.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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SolonKR
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8/29/2016 9:32:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 8:49:02 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Our women cover their heads in Muslim nations. That's what we call equality. We honor their customs in their house. They honor our customs in our house.

That's a perversion of equality. That all people have the same innumerable negative rights, including the right not to be prevented from free expression, is the core of western equality.

What custom exactly are they honoring here, anyway? The custom that "thou must show skin at a beach"? Shall we outlaw full-body swimsuits while we're at it, then? The expectation that our women should cover their heads in a Muslim nation is wrong, AND the expectation that Muslim women should dress like westerners is wrong as well. The expectation that anyone should dress any certain way is contrary to western values and wrong. Just because certain states are too socially regressive to provide freedom doesn't mean that France should descend to their level. Every state has an obligation to do what is right, regardless of what other states are doing.

The burqini ban is both morally wrong and will only have ill effect on the ethnic tensions in France. It's a bad policy, plain and simple.
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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 9:34:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 9:32:11 PM, SolonKR wrote:
At 8/29/2016 8:49:02 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Our women cover their heads in Muslim nations. That's what we call equality. We honor their customs in their house. They honor our customs in our house.

That's a perversion of equality. That all people have the same innumerable negative rights, including the right not to be prevented from free expression, is the core of western equality.

What custom exactly are they honoring here, anyway? The custom that "thou must show skin at a beach"? Shall we outlaw full-body swimsuits while we're at it, then? The expectation that our women should cover their heads in a Muslim nation is wrong, AND the expectation that Muslim women should dress like westerners is wrong as well. The expectation that anyone should dress any certain way is contrary to western values and wrong. Just because certain states are too socially regressive to provide freedom doesn't mean that France should descend to their level. Every state has an obligation to do what is right, regardless of what other states are doing.

The burqini ban is both morally wrong and will only have ill effect on the ethnic tensions in France. It's a bad policy, plain and simple.

In other words only we are held to this rule while all other cultures protect their borders at all costs. That's called cultural suicide.
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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 9:35:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 9:32:11 PM, SolonKR wrote:
At 8/29/2016 8:49:02 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Our women cover their heads in Muslim nations. That's what we call equality. We honor their customs in their house. They honor our customs in our house.

That's a perversion of equality. That all people have the same innumerable negative rights, including the right not to be prevented from free expression, is the core of western equality.

What custom exactly are they honoring here, anyway? The custom that "thou must show skin at a beach"? Shall we outlaw full-body swimsuits while we're at it, then? The expectation that our women should cover their heads in a Muslim nation is wrong, AND the expectation that Muslim women should dress like westerners is wrong as well. The expectation that anyone should dress any certain way is contrary to western values and wrong. Just because certain states are too socially regressive to provide freedom doesn't mean that France should descend to their level. Every state has an obligation to do what is right, regardless of what other states are doing.

The burqini ban is both morally wrong and will only have ill effect on the ethnic tensions in France. It's a bad policy, plain and simple.

We aren't reducing ourself to their level. We are keeping their level out of our country.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 9:38:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 9:32:11 PM, SolonKR wrote:
At 8/29/2016 8:49:02 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Our women cover their heads in Muslim nations. That's what we call equality. We honor their customs in their house. They honor our customs in our house.

That's a perversion of equality. That all people have the same innumerable negative rights, including the right not to be prevented from free expression, is the core of western equality.

What custom exactly are they honoring here, anyway? The custom that "thou must show skin at a beach"? Shall we outlaw full-body swimsuits while we're at it, then? The expectation that our women should cover their heads in a Muslim nation is wrong, AND the expectation that Muslim women should dress like westerners is wrong as well. The expectation that anyone should dress any certain way is contrary to western values and wrong. Just because certain states are too socially regressive to provide freedom doesn't mean that France should descend to their level. Every state has an obligation to do what is right, regardless of what other states are doing.

The burqini ban is both morally wrong and will only have ill effect on the ethnic tensions in France. It's a bad policy, plain and simple.

I wouldn't call it bad policy. I'd call it enabling those poir females to show their head in public like a human being living in a free, liberal society. Or do you think they should be made and forced to cover up against their will?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
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8/29/2016 9:43:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 8/29/2016 9:32:11 PM, SolonKR wrote:
At 8/29/2016 8:49:02 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Our women cover their heads in Muslim nations. That's what we call equality. We honor their customs in their house. They honor our customs in our house.

That's a perversion of equality. That all people have the same innumerable negative rights, including the right not to be prevented from free expression, is the core of western equality.

What custom exactly are they honoring here, anyway? The custom that "thou must show skin at a beach"? Shall we outlaw full-body swimsuits while we're at it, then? The expectation that our women should cover their heads in a Muslim nation is wrong, AND the expectation that Muslim women should dress like westerners is wrong as well. The expectation that anyone should dress any certain way is contrary to western values and wrong. Just because certain states are too socially regressive to provide freedom doesn't mean that France should descend to their level. Every state has an obligation to do what is right, regardless of what other states are doing.

The burqini ban is both morally wrong and will only have ill effect on the ethnic tensions in France. It's a bad policy, plain and simple.

Thou must show skin, yes. Why? They are at the beach...don't want to show skin? Go to a movie.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...