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UChicago takes stand against trigger warnings

1harderthanyouthink
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8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Greyparrot
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8/31/2016 7:33:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

Nice.
Blade-of-Truth
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8/31/2016 8:28:53 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I agree. The backlash is actually quite surprising but not unexpected. I've recently read two interesting articles that present alternative takes on it. If you're interested, I strongly believe reviewing all perspectives helps paint a clearer picture.

It's not about academic freedom, but rather power: http://www.vox.com...

In practice, safe space and trigger warnings help people:
http://chicagoist.com...

I quite enjoyed the first article, and while I don't agree with the conclusion, it provides an interesting take on the matter. The second article is merely to present the "other side" of this issue. Neither of them altered my own opinion, which is in alignment with your own.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/31/2016 8:31:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:28:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I agree. The backlash is actually quite surprising but not unexpected. I've recently read two interesting articles that present alternative takes on it. If you're interested, I strongly believe reviewing all perspectives helps paint a clearer picture.

It's not about academic freedom, but rather power: http://www.vox.com...

In practice, safe space and trigger warnings help people:
http://chicagoist.com...

I quite enjoyed the first article, and while I don't agree with the conclusion, it provides an interesting take on the matter. The second article is merely to present the "other side" of this issue. Neither of them altered my own opinion, which is in alignment with your own.

*Disclaimer, I do not support the sources of these articles, they are generally way out of line with my own political ideologies - but for the sake of this conversation they do provide additional perspectives.
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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8/31/2016 8:36:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:28:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I agree. The backlash is actually quite surprising but not unexpected. I've recently read two interesting articles that present alternative takes on it. If you're interested, I strongly believe reviewing all perspectives helps paint a clearer picture.

It's not about academic freedom, but rather power: http://www.vox.com...

In practice, safe space and trigger warnings help people:
http://chicagoist.com...

I quite enjoyed the first article, and while I don't agree with the conclusion, it provides an interesting take on the matter. The second article is merely to present the "other side" of this issue. Neither of them altered my own opinion, which is in alignment with your own.

I only read the first. I thought it was garbage. The mere premise of the conclusion misplaces the entire point of education.

"The Chicago letter reeks of arrogance, of a sense of entitlement, of an exclusionary mindset " in other words, the very things it seeks to inveigh against. It"s not about academic freedom; it"s about power. Know your place, and acknowledge ours, it tells the students. We"ll be the judge of what you need to know and how you need to know it. And professors and students are thus handcuffed to a high-stakes ideological creed. Do it this way, in the name of all that is holy and true in the academy. There is no room here for empathy, for student agency, or for faculty discretion."

The entire point of that is utter bullsh!t. Yes, the university SHOULD take a stand against 18 year olds complaining to or about seasoned professors on how they conduct their classes, and take it to the point where they try to shut down opposing opinions. If they want to have a circle jerk, they can have it out of what should be a place for intellectual growth.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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8/31/2016 8:37:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:31:13 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/31/2016 8:28:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I agree. The backlash is actually quite surprising but not unexpected. I've recently read two interesting articles that present alternative takes on it. If you're interested, I strongly believe reviewing all perspectives helps paint a clearer picture.

It's not about academic freedom, but rather power: http://www.vox.com...

In practice, safe space and trigger warnings help people:
http://chicagoist.com...

I quite enjoyed the first article, and while I don't agree with the conclusion, it provides an interesting take on the matter. The second article is merely to present the "other side" of this issue. Neither of them altered my own opinion, which is in alignment with your own.

*Disclaimer, I do not support the sources of these articles, they are generally way out of line with my own political ideologies - but for the sake of this conversation they do provide additional perspectives.

I know.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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8/31/2016 8:44:51 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:36:57 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/31/2016 8:28:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I agree. The backlash is actually quite surprising but not unexpected. I've recently read two interesting articles that present alternative takes on it. If you're interested, I strongly believe reviewing all perspectives helps paint a clearer picture.

It's not about academic freedom, but rather power: http://www.vox.com...

In practice, safe space and trigger warnings help people:
http://chicagoist.com...

I quite enjoyed the first article, and while I don't agree with the conclusion, it provides an interesting take on the matter. The second article is merely to present the "other side" of this issue. Neither of them altered my own opinion, which is in alignment with your own.

I only read the first. I thought it was garbage. The mere premise of the conclusion misplaces the entire point of education.

"The Chicago letter reeks of arrogance, of a sense of entitlement, of an exclusionary mindset " in other words, the very things it seeks to inveigh against. It"s not about academic freedom; it"s about power. Know your place, and acknowledge ours, it tells the students. We"ll be the judge of what you need to know and how you need to know it. And professors and students are thus handcuffed to a high-stakes ideological creed. Do it this way, in the name of all that is holy and true in the academy. There is no room here for empathy, for student agency, or for faculty discretion."

The entire point of that is utter bullsh!t. Yes, the university SHOULD take a stand against 18 year olds complaining to or about seasoned professors on how they conduct their classes, and take it to the point where they try to shut down opposing opinions. If they want to have a circle jerk, they can have it out of what should be a place for intellectual growth.

You can't enforce rights like the right to free speech without power.
Blade-of-Truth
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8/31/2016 8:56:44 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:36:57 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/31/2016 8:28:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I agree. The backlash is actually quite surprising but not unexpected. I've recently read two interesting articles that present alternative takes on it. If you're interested, I strongly believe reviewing all perspectives helps paint a clearer picture.

It's not about academic freedom, but rather power: http://www.vox.com...

In practice, safe space and trigger warnings help people:
http://chicagoist.com...

I quite enjoyed the first article, and while I don't agree with the conclusion, it provides an interesting take on the matter. The second article is merely to present the "other side" of this issue. Neither of them altered my own opinion, which is in alignment with your own.

I only read the first. I thought it was garbage. The mere premise of the conclusion misplaces the entire point of education.

Haha, agreed. However, garbage can still be interesting if trying to understand how others perceive the issue.

"The Chicago letter reeks of arrogance, of a sense of entitlement, of an exclusionary mindset " in other words, the very things it seeks to inveigh against. It"s not about academic freedom; it"s about power. Know your place, and acknowledge ours, it tells the students. We"ll be the judge of what you need to know and how you need to know it. And professors and students are thus handcuffed to a high-stakes ideological creed. Do it this way, in the name of all that is holy and true in the academy. There is no room here for empathy, for student agency, or for faculty discretion."

The entire point of that is utter bullsh!t. Yes, the university SHOULD take a stand against 18 year olds complaining to or about seasoned professors on how they conduct their classes, and take it to the point where they try to shut down opposing opinions. If they want to have a circle jerk, they can have it out of what should be a place for intellectual growth.

I think it comes down to an issue of student choice vs. university prerogative. We are seeing more and more PC-brainwashed kids thanks to the incredibly strong social liberal agenda portrayed and presented in many popular entertainment sources. So I do agree with your point that it's the Universities duty to re-establish their control over the information presented in their halls, but that, in itself, is an act of re-securing their power in the dynamic that exists between an education institution and those who attend the institution. Hence why I thought the article was interesting, even though I, too, disagreed with the conclusion. If I could accurately sum it up I'd say he noticed something which is true, but mis-attributed that minor truth as the entire cause and/or desired result of the letter.
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Greyparrot
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8/31/2016 8:59:02 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:56:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

I think it comes down to an issue of student choice vs. university prerogative. We are seeing more and more PC-brainwashed kids thanks to the incredibly strong social liberal agenda portrayed and presented in many popular entertainment sources. So I do agree with your point that it's the University's duty to re-establish their control over the information presented in their halls, but that, in itself, is an act of re-securing their power in the dynamic that exists between an education institution and those who attend the institution. Hence why I thought the article was interesting, even though I, too, disagreed with the conclusion. If I could accurately sum it up I'd say he noticed something which is true, but mis-attributed that minor truth as the entire cause and/or desired result of the letter.

It's about time the inmates stopped running the asylums!
Blade-of-Truth
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8/31/2016 9:01:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 8:59:02 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/31/2016 8:56:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

I think it comes down to an issue of student choice vs. university prerogative. We are seeing more and more PC-brainwashed kids thanks to the incredibly strong social liberal agenda portrayed and presented in many popular entertainment sources. So I do agree with your point that it's the University's duty to re-establish their control over the information presented in their halls, but that, in itself, is an act of re-securing their power in the dynamic that exists between an education institution and those who attend the institution. Hence why I thought the article was interesting, even though I, too, disagreed with the conclusion. If I could accurately sum it up I'd say he noticed something which is true, but mis-attributed that minor truth as the entire cause and/or desired result of the letter.

It's about time the inmates stopped running the asylums!

Lol! (Agreed)
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slo1
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8/31/2016 2:03:00 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

"we do not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own,"

That is rediculious, everybody condones safe spaces lest you believe people should be forced to listen to others opinions and views.

Everyone's favorite safe space is Thanksgiving diner where people are advised to no talk about politics or religion. I have yet to see a safe space that disrupted a speaker on campus. There should be no issues with one or more people deciding to create an event where topics are off line and unwelcome.

Does that mean that some students can take it too far and act a victim as a results of someone else's words? Absolutely. But can save spaces serve a valuable role such as creating peace and harmony at Thanksgiving diner.

It is much more important that classrooms have more freedom to examine controversial issues without restriction than it is to stop students from creating a safe space in conjunction to a controversial speaker on campus. However it should be noted that as a paying customer a student should have a right to see a syllabus to ensure meets their standards prior to taking a course, which is a form of trigger warning in its own right.

Safe space in the classroom, no. Self opted safe space as protest against a speaker on campus, why not?

It is important to make such distinctions as restricting the later becomes a violation of first amendment in its own right.

Last thing to mention I don't trust administrations or news articles to define freedom of speech issues. It is more important to allow students to decide what speech is best for them. Warning that there are no trigger warnings is a trigger warning, which means there is some sort of trigger warning. Over communicating is not a bad thing. It seems to me that the problem is not the trigger warning itself, but rather a students perception of whether a trigger warning met their expectations.

I commend the university for their stance, but they like many are unable to articulate the real real problem, which is the adminstration unwillingness to tell students with unrealistic expectations and over sensitive complaints to shut the fvck up and go back to work.
Semiya
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8/31/2016 2:18:14 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
What nonsense.

People who think trigger warnings and safe spaces are anti-free speech have zero understanding of what trigger warnings and safe spaces are.

The Univeristy of Chicago claims students should expect to be challenged. It's not about not wanting to be challenged. It's about not wanting to be traumatized. It's not about being bothered or offended by a controversial topic. It's about something that you used to be okay with becoming something that can tear you apart inside and bring you back to a moment when you were not okay. It's like a form of PTSD. People love wrongly equating trigger warnings and being offended. The difference is simple. Being offended means you hear or see something and think: "that's not okay." Being triggered means you hear or see something and think: "I'M not okay."

A school stamping out trigger warnings sends the message that people with depression, veterans, survivors of sexual assault, and much more are not welcome. To everyone who has suffered, everyone fighting their own battles, who hear the echoes of abusers, who see the shadows of past scars, who count the days since last self-harm, to everyone who has to whisper "I'm okay," I stand with you. You are more than okay; you are extraordinary.
tajshar2k
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8/31/2016 2:21:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

That's how we roll in Chiraq
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
YYW
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8/31/2016 2:33:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

Did you read the Vox article Amanda Taub wrote in response? I did.... and literally burst out laughing.
YYW
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8/31/2016 2:34:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 2:18:14 PM, Semiya wrote:
What nonsense.

People who think trigger warnings and safe spaces are anti-free speech have zero understanding of what trigger warnings and safe spaces are.

The Univeristy of Chicago claims students should expect to be challenged. It's not about not wanting to be challenged. It's about not wanting to be traumatized. It's not about being bothered or offended by a controversial topic. It's about something that you used to be okay with becoming something that can tear you apart inside and bring you back to a moment when you were not okay. It's like a form of PTSD. People love wrongly equating trigger warnings and being offended. The difference is simple. Being offended means you hear or see something and think: "that's not okay." Being triggered means you hear or see something and think: "I'M not okay."

A school stamping out trigger warnings sends the message that people with depression, veterans, survivors of sexual assault, and much more are not welcome. To everyone who has suffered, everyone fighting their own battles, who hear the echoes of abusers, who see the shadows of past scars, who count the days since last self-harm, to everyone who has to whisper "I'm okay," I stand with you. You are more than okay; you are extraordinary.

Every single thing you wrote in this post is wrong.
AlyceTheElectrician
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8/31/2016 3:15:33 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Excellent, finally a counter movement.

The pitiful wussification of Americans is evil and it must be destroyed.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

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Burzmali
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8/31/2016 4:18:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I understand that there are fringe incidents where students at colleges have protested or simply shouted down speakers they found objectionable, and that there have been a handful of times when they've cited "safe space" guidelines as their defense. Aside from that abuse and misunderstanding of what safe spaces are, what's wrong with safe spaces and trigger warnings? Is there a reason that, say, gay people shouldn't be able to have a meeting setup where they can talk about issues they face without a fundamentalist coming in and telling them they're all going to hell? Is there a reason that a survivor of childhood abuse shouldn't be warned ahead of time that the material in a class includes depictions of violence against children?
1harderthanyouthink
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8/31/2016 4:59:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 2:33:29 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

Did you read the Vox article Amanda Taub wrote in response? I did.... and literally burst out laughing.

I wrote a response to it in this thread.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Capital
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8/31/2016 5:04:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

Wow I cant believe we agree on something

Fvking trigger warnings are retarded
Im not a Nazi
Throwback
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8/31/2016 5:04:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:33:01 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

Nice.

Good news. If little Johnny can't keep from wetting himself because someone has an opinion, little Johnny needs to diaper up and go home.
When I respond with "OK" don't take it personally. I'm simply being appropriately dismissive.
UtherPenguin
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8/31/2016 5:37:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 2:21:38 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

That's how we roll in Chiraq

How did you get out of Chiraq? Chiran.
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kevin24018
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8/31/2016 7:24:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
so I did a little reading
http://www.cnn.com...
"the concept has meandered far from its intent as a warning to trauma survivors." I guess everything should have a warning screen like rated R movies, may contain adult language blah blah blah.
If you want to make your own little club/clique for your safe space, do so, but the school shouldn't provide it.

How do you determine which words are "triggers" how do you know when to warn someone, and how can you tell which words would trigger which person, because if I could tell, I'd have a hell of a lot of fun I gotta tell you. Since there is NO duty to warn, what if someone fails to warn? Anyone have some good examples? No? I didn't think so.
Semiya
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8/31/2016 7:31:18 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 2:34:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/31/2016 2:18:14 PM, Semiya wrote:
What nonsense.

People who think trigger warnings and safe spaces are anti-free speech have zero understanding of what trigger warnings and safe spaces are.

The Univeristy of Chicago claims students should expect to be challenged. It's not about not wanting to be challenged. It's about not wanting to be traumatized. It's not about being bothered or offended by a controversial topic. It's about something that you used to be okay with becoming something that can tear you apart inside and bring you back to a moment when you were not okay. It's like a form of PTSD. People love wrongly equating trigger warnings and being offended. The difference is simple. Being offended means you hear or see something and think: "that's not okay." Being triggered means you hear or see something and think: "I'M not okay."

A school stamping out trigger warnings sends the message that people with depression, veterans, survivors of sexual assault, and much more are not welcome. To everyone who has suffered, everyone fighting their own battles, who hear the echoes of abusers, who see the shadows of past scars, who count the days since last self-harm, to everyone who has to whisper "I'm okay," I stand with you. You are more than okay; you are extraordinary.

Every single thing you wrote in this post is wrong.

Only in your fantasy world.
Greyparrot
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8/31/2016 8:48:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 5:04:34 PM, Throwback wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:33:01 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

Nice.

Good news. If little Johnny can't keep from wetting himself because someone has an opinion, little Johnny needs to diaper up and go home.

+1
Greyparrot
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8/31/2016 8:50:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 2:35:09 PM, YYW wrote:
What amazes me is how dumb people have become these days, more than anything else.

People really equate watching your friend's head blown off to having a complete stranger yell the word "Trump" across the campus? Inconceivable!
twocupcakes
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8/31/2016 11:03:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

I think this is really lame. Are there really that many people for "Safe Spaces"? In my opinion the whole SJW scare is a strawman argument.
twocupcakes
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8/31/2016 11:04:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/31/2016 7:29:00 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com...

I think this is a good step for universities in snuffing out the anti-free speech movement. When one does it, more will follow.

This is just a publicity stunt to get in the news. So fvcking lame.
bballcrook21
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8/31/2016 11:22:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I was so happy when University of Chicago staff decided to do this.

That's why UChicago is a great university, and has produced so many great Nobel laureates.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.