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The case for and against free tuition college

Greyparrot
Posts: 14,269
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9/1/2016 3:50:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

I am interested in your take on "College education is a human right"
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/1/2016 4:04:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

They can't even revive social security financially much less this. When you bankrupt SS by borrowing from it repeatedly, any such concept of free tuition is a lie to whore for votes.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
JB009
Posts: 22
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9/1/2016 4:06:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted. : ;

It's an awesome idea for those young students and their parents who can't afford to go to college.

The problem is that the hard working Americans who don't have children or have children that already graduated from college will have to pay higher taxes so that those lazy students looking for a free ride can go to college.

Lazy students today can qualify for grants and student loans or work part-time like we all had to do to get their education before going out in the work force. There is nothing wrong with this old way of getting an education.
Semiya
Posts: 405
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9/1/2016 4:43:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
We know we can afford free college tuition. We've done it with the GI Bill.

We know, on average, everyone we out through on free college tuition puts 7x that back into the economy.

But we don't do it even though it makes the most economic, social, cultural, and humanitarian sense because the whole right and center-left would rather scream and cry about socialism.
mc9
Posts: 1,035
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9/1/2016 4:45:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 4:06:41 PM, JB009 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted. : ;

It's an awesome idea for those young students and their parents who can't afford to go to college.

The problem is that the hard working Americans who don't have children or have children that already graduated from college will have to pay higher taxes so that those lazy students looking for a free ride can go to college.

Lazy students today can qualify for grants and student loans or work part-time like we all had to do to get their education before going out in the work force. There is nothing wrong with this old way of getting an education.

You'd have to do those an insane amount to afford tuition these days.
JB009
Posts: 22
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9/1/2016 5:12:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 4:45:23 PM, mc9 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 4:06:41 PM, JB009 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted. : ;

It's an awesome idea for those young students and their parents who can't afford to go to college.

The problem is that the hard working Americans who don't have children or have children that already graduated from college will have to pay higher taxes so that those lazy students looking for a free ride can go to college.

Lazy students today can qualify for grants and student loans or work part-time like we all had to do to get their education before going out in the work force. There is nothing wrong with this old way of getting an education.

You'd have to do those an insane amount to afford tuition these days. : :

I understand that tuition is higher than what it was 45 years ago when I first started college but back then, the minimum wage was $1.65 per hour. The wage earners in the small towns I grew up around were at tops, $4.00 per hour at that time. It was rare to see any of my friends going to a big university because the tuition was way out of reach for most of them. We had to settle for small city colleges and lower cost universities to get advanced educations.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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9/1/2016 6:17:31 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
In my country, we only have to pay about 23-ish euros to apply for college. I find the costs of American college tuition pretty crazy.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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9/1/2016 6:52:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:50:29 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

I am interested in your take on "College education is a human right"

I don't think it is a human right, but I do believe that it's in our best interests and morally correct, that those who are intelligent and hard-working deserve to go to college despite socioeconomic status.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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9/1/2016 6:52:20 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:50:29 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

I am interested in your take on "College education is a human right"

I'm against free college tuition if you are wondering.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
kevin24018
Posts: 1,843
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9/1/2016 7:35:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
First and foremost it's NOT free, it maybe no cost to some people but someone is paying for it. It would be better to lower costs if possible, however
"First, a handful of recent, well-designed studies do find a robust relationship between changes in student aid and tuition prices. For instance, we"ve got new evidence from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York that sticker prices at colleges with lots of borrowers increased after federal student loan programs expanded. "
http://www.forbes.com...

Do you think the college employees would gain huge pay raises if it was "free"? Most things "free" suffer greatly from lack of quality. Let's look at other "free" government programs, welfare most notably, how well does that work?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/1/2016 8:11:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 4:43:04 PM, Semiya wrote:
We know we can afford free college tuition. We've done it with the GI Bill.

We know, on average, everyone we out through on free college tuition puts 7x that back into the economy.

But we don't do it even though it makes the most economic, social, cultural, and humanitarian sense because the whole right and center-left would rather scream and cry about socialism.

Is this "American privelege" anything like "white privelege"?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
JB009
Posts: 22
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9/1/2016 8:12:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 6:17:31 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
In my country, we only have to pay about 23-ish euros to apply for college. I find the costs of American college tuition pretty crazy. : :

You might not be paying much for college but the taxes the government collects from wage earners does. Schools have a lot of costs that need to be paid for.
vortex86
Posts: 568
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9/1/2016 8:16:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 4:43:04 PM, Semiya wrote:
We know we can afford free college tuition. We've done it with the GI Bill.

We know, on average, everyone we out through on free college tuition puts 7x that back into the economy.

But we don't do it even though it makes the most economic, social, cultural, and humanitarian sense because the whole right and center-left would rather scream and cry about socialism.

The GI Bill isn't free by the way. You have to pay into it while in the service. It's quite a rate of return on the investment but it isn't free, so let me crush that misconception. Also, it's a benefit of your service working ridiculous hours for menial pay.

I'm okay with what my state does though. You achieve certain academic criteria you get tuition assistance to state college. This is paid for with the lottery, not tax payer dollars.

I was the lucky recipient of both the above.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,843
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9/1/2016 8:20:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 8:16:46 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 9/1/2016 4:43:04 PM, Semiya wrote:
We know we can afford free college tuition. We've done it with the GI Bill.

We know, on average, everyone we out through on free college tuition puts 7x that back into the economy.

But we don't do it even though it makes the most economic, social, cultural, and humanitarian sense because the whole right and center-left would rather scream and cry about socialism.

The GI Bill isn't free by the way. You have to pay into it while in the service. It's quite a rate of return on the investment but it isn't free, so let me crush that misconception. Also, it's a benefit of your service working ridiculous hours for menial pay.

I'm okay with what my state does though. You achieve certain academic criteria you get tuition assistance to state college. This is paid for with the lottery, not tax payer dollars.

I was the lucky recipient of both the above.

+1
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/1/2016 8:41:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Yep. Wealthy students getting free tuition will be very helpful....
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/1/2016 11:54:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

More educated people would end poverty the guy says. Really? Wow! Education would magically increase good jobs! Nope. You'd just have educated people flipping burgers and still unable to get good jobs. Supply would stay the same demand would go up.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/1/2016 11:56:01 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

And now, because tuition is free we can't afford good teachers. Who wants to go through 10 years of college to make state wages?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/2/2016 12:02:13 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

Now listen to the first guy. He sais, "1.3 trillion of our $18 trillion debt is student debt."

This can be looked at 2 ways to prove this guy is a libtard.

1)That debt isn't a part of the "national debt" because it is students' debt.

OR

2)If you argue it as a part of the "national debt", while griping the student debt is too high, you are well...a fool. Why? Because imagine how high that debt would be if all students in America had college paid for...
So 1.3 million is too much student debt for the government to take on...but $80 trillion is fine...

And finally...look at the way the first guy is dressed...I rest my case...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/2/2016 12:11:22 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

Nevermind. There's only one libtard as I have now finished the video.

He whines about the prices. Okay. I offer you a car that I say is worth $20,000. You say it's worth $5,000. Do you buy it for $20,000? Nope. You go find a better deal. Sorry, I'm the wrong person for liberals with "white privelege" to whine to. I'm an immigrant, I'm not white, I worked my butt off, paid off my loans and debt, and retired. The problem is American liberal entitlement. The liberal will say they are poor and need help, blah blah blah, then have a nice flat screen tv, an i-pod, an i-pad, a computer, internet, cable, etc etc. What a bunch of weak, excuse making pansies.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,269
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9/2/2016 6:53:47 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 6:52:20 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:50:29 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

I am interested in your take on "College education is a human right"

I'm against free college tuition if you are wondering.

Subsidized education might not be nearly as bad as eliminating college admissions offices. But we already have alot of subsides already.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,383
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9/2/2016 12:10:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
If everybody goes to school until they are 22 there will be less unemployment, besides everyone ,rich or poor should have the opportunity to live in a dorm for 4 years with 18 - 22 year old girls who don't care if you don't have a good job, and you can go to all those parties where they drink lots of alcohol and other drugs that lower their inhibitions.
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/2/2016 2:48:58 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 6:17:31 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
In my country, we only have to pay about 23-ish euros to apply for college. I find the costs of American college tuition pretty crazy.
America isn't the crazy. Quite the opposite. You see, in Europe -- bar Malta, which is just a casino-laden pirate ship aground in the Mediterranean; ceterum censeo) -- each and every one but the very people attending college pay for that education.

As far as the actual costs are concerned, there's no real difference.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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9/2/2016 3:28:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 2:48:58 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/1/2016 6:17:31 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
In my country, we only have to pay about 23-ish euros to apply for college. I find the costs of American college tuition pretty crazy.
America isn't the crazy. Quite the opposite. You see, in Europe -- bar Malta, which is just a casino-laden pirate ship aground in the Mediterranean; ceterum censeo) -- each and every one but the very people attending college pay for that education.

As far as the actual costs are concerned, there's no real difference.

Your post has just proven your ignorance about Europe and my country. Good job.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/2/2016 3:43:04 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 3:28:24 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
Your post has just proven your ignorance about Europe and my country. Good job.
See the actual data and stop living in that European bubble of "free education" (http://data.worldbank.org...).

This comes down to having people finance their own choices regarding tertiary education, or for every taxpayer to prop them up.
foxxhajti
Posts: 479
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9/2/2016 4:05:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 3:43:04 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/2/2016 3:28:24 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
Your post has just proven your ignorance about Europe and my country. Good job.
See the actual data and stop living in that European bubble of "free education" (http://data.worldbank.org...).

This comes down to having people finance their own choices regarding tertiary education, or for every taxpayer to prop them up.

It benefits the country in the long run. My "pirate laden" country makes education accessible for most, therefore, people will have more qualifications, therefore more workers in the future, who will pay taxes. Citizens already pay taxes, and my country has both national healthcare and free college, yet our economy is doing pretty well. Free colleges in Europe, don't even spend that much more on higher education than the U.S. does. Since the US has a way different economy than us, I'd guess something like ours would be a bit too radical for it. Maybe the US should provide more incentives to colleges to lower their costs, investing in better pre-college education, etc.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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9/2/2016 4:08:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 6:53:47 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/1/2016 6:52:20 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:50:29 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/1/2016 3:43:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Interested in knowing your opinion on free college, and the video that I posted.

I am interested in your take on "College education is a human right"

I'm against free college tuition if you are wondering.

Subsidized education might not be nearly as bad as eliminating college admissions offices. But we already have alot of subsides already.

Doesn't seem to have any impact really.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/2/2016 4:18:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:05:03 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
It benefits the country in the long run.
I hope you qualify that distinction as is relevant to tertiary education. And viewing from the stats, Maltese colleges are as costly to the taxpayer as are Cuba's, which is three times the American cost per capita. You do realize what that would entail for the American taxpayer?

My "pirate laden" country makes education accessible for most, therefore, people will have more qualifications, therefore more workers in the future, who will pay taxes.
America is not suffering from a deficit of unqualified labor but of an innovation economy which is not generating growth (see Nouriel Roubini https://www.project-syndicate.org...).

Maybe the US should provide more incentives to colleges to lower their costs, investing in better pre-college education, etc.
One alternative would be to apply the German model with vocational schools, to present a pathway toward relatively low-skilled jobs for those individuals who are not predisposed for higher education. As in Germany or Scandinavia, they can contribute to the economy and live decent lives with decent wages. "Free education" at the tertiary level wouldn't help them in the least.
Danimal4NU
Posts: 53
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9/3/2016 12:23:23 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/1/2016 6:17:31 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
In my country, we only have to pay about 23-ish euros to apply for college. I find the costs of American college tuition pretty crazy.

What drives me nuts is that we've just kept making money available to where universities just keep spending up a storm and raising tuition to pay for it. Tuition has gone-up much more quickly than inflation. They've never addressed the core problem and they still aren't.

I wouldn't mind my tax dollars going towards people from lower-income households learning marketable trades, that would provide return on investment, but free university tuition for all is just going to make our debt and tuition problems worse. The vast majority of jobs don't require a degree. We already have more people in college than jobs for them all. This leads to college grads being underemployed and over-credentialing(jobs requiring degrees that shouldn't). The situation is exacerbated further by those that get unmarketable degrees. Sticking taxpayers with the bill for anyone that wants it to get a degree in gender studies just so they can end-up complaining about the patriarchy as they get macchiato orders wrong at Starbucks is not a good idea.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/3/2016 12:35:52 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Part of the reason it is so expensive is due to government subsidization.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross