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American Melting Pot vs Multiculturalism

PetersSmith
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9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.
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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/2/2016 4:20:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Why are we the only culture that is held to the standard that we have to mix? Why? What for?Can we not mix and match with who is here already? The Chinese aren't welcoming foreigners in mass. The Arabs aren't welcoming foreigners. The Africans aren't interested either. So why are we the only oneswho need to multiculturize? What if their idea is smart and multiculturism is actually just...stupid?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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tajshar2k
Posts: 2,376
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9/2/2016 4:23:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:20:11 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Why are we the only culture that is held to the standard that we have to mix? Why? What for?Can we not mix and match with who is here already? The Chinese aren't welcoming foreigners in mass. The Arabs aren't welcoming foreigners. The Africans aren't interested either. So why are we the only oneswho need to multiculturize? What if their idea is smart and multiculturism is actually just...stupid?

Because that is literally part of our history....
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/2/2016 4:26:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:23:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:20:11 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Why are we the only culture that is held to the standard that we have to mix? Why? What for?Can we not mix and match with who is here already? The Chinese aren't welcoming foreigners in mass. The Arabs aren't welcoming foreigners. The Africans aren't interested either. So why are we the only oneswho need to multiculturize? What if their idea is smart and multiculturism is actually just...stupid?

Because that is literally part of our history....

So is slavery and women not having the right to vote.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,376
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9/2/2016 4:28:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:26:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:23:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:20:11 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Why are we the only culture that is held to the standard that we have to mix? Why? What for?Can we not mix and match with who is here already? The Chinese aren't welcoming foreigners in mass. The Arabs aren't welcoming foreigners. The Africans aren't interested either. So why are we the only oneswho need to multiculturize? What if their idea is smart and multiculturism is actually just...stupid?

Because that is literally part of our history....

So is slavery and women not having the right to vote.

I dont' hold cultures mixing in the same light as slavery and women not voting.

Besides, the U.S is not multicultural. It has a melting pot.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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9/2/2016 4:35:13 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot is much better. An attitude of multiculturalism gives new immigrants the idea that they dont have to adapt to the culture of their new home, but instead their new country has to accommodate them. There are many reasons that people immigrate to western countries, one of them being that the culture here is more desirable.
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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/2/2016 4:38:37 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:28:12 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:26:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:23:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:20:11 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Why are we the only culture that is held to the standard that we have to mix? Why? What for?Can we not mix and match with who is here already? The Chinese aren't welcoming foreigners in mass. The Arabs aren't welcoming foreigners. The Africans aren't interested either. So why are we the only oneswho need to multiculturize? What if their idea is smart and multiculturism is actually just...stupid?

Because that is literally part of our history....

So is slavery and women not having the right to vote.

I dont' hold cultures mixing in the same light as slavery and women not voting.

Besides, the U.S is not multicultural. It has a melting pot.

Name a country with a more diverse mix of African, Caucasian, Native American, and Mexican people.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,630
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9/2/2016 4:45:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot so long as American culture remains closer to European culture.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,376
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9/2/2016 4:51:36 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:38:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:28:12 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:26:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:23:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:20:11 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Why are we the only culture that is held to the standard that we have to mix? Why? What for?Can we not mix and match with who is here already? The Chinese aren't welcoming foreigners in mass. The Arabs aren't welcoming foreigners. The Africans aren't interested either. So why are we the only oneswho need to multiculturize? What if their idea is smart and multiculturism is actually just...stupid?

Because that is literally part of our history....

So is slavery and women not having the right to vote.

I dont' hold cultures mixing in the same light as slavery and women not voting.

Besides, the U.S is not multicultural. It has a melting pot.

Name a country with a more diverse mix of African, Caucasian, Native American, and Mexican people.

multicultural and multi-ethinic are not the same.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/2/2016 4:59:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?
A melting pot is a multicultural society united under shared myths. And as far as we are concerned, these puritan founding myths took the shape of the Protestant work ethic (American Dream) and Manifest Destiny (American Exceptionalism).

But if the work ethic and the shared sense of destiny are no longer in view, then the melting pot -- cultural homogenization -- ceases to be a choice. And once the founding myths are no longer attainable, ethnic identity arises in their stead.
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,673
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9/2/2016 5:40:38 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
For Canada at least, a "Mosaic" policy has done rather well as of current, not too sure about the U.S..
"Change your sig."
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Omniscient_Debater
Posts: 285
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9/2/2016 5:57:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Melting pot. I believe that the status quo is fine, and if multiculturalism took place in America, there would be lots of tension from all of the different cultural viewpoints. If the current system isn't broken, we shouldn't try to fix it.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/2/2016 6:14:32 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

The melting pot-salad bowl theory. We don't have to all get along and accept all cultures as equal. F that... There needs to be some attempt at assimilation. We going to allow people to drive on the left hand side of the road because they did back home?
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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9/2/2016 6:41:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Neither. The latter is really bad, while the former isn't even real.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/2/2016 6:51:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture

So it doesn't matter what holidays they celebrate, whether they want to wear a hijab, whether they speak English, like any sports, or celebrate any national holidays? As long as they "exercise" the bill of rights, whatever that means; I mean it's hard for a civilian to exercise the right to no search or seizure without a warrant...
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/2/2016 7:05:16 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 6:51:42 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture

So it doesn't matter what holidays they celebrate, whether they want to wear a hijab, whether they speak English, like any sports, or celebrate any national holidays? As long as they "exercise" the bill of rights, whatever that means; I mean it's hard for a civilian to exercise the right to no search or seizure without a warrant...

No but it is the American way to fight unreasonable search and seizure. American culture was built out of the core principles of the BOR. individualism based on a healthy skepticism of government interference. Unfortunately, imo that has greatly degraded the more we invite gov in. English was a given.

But the sports part and the other examples are aspects of the core principle of individualism and expression. Is a hijab traditionally American? Nah. Is someone pushing boundaries and expressing their individuality? You betcha.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/2/2016 7:35:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 7:05:16 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:51:42 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture

So it doesn't matter what holidays they celebrate, whether they want to wear a hijab, whether they speak English, like any sports, or celebrate any national holidays? As long as they "exercise" the bill of rights, whatever that means; I mean it's hard for a civilian to exercise the right to no search or seizure without a warrant...

No but it is the American way to fight unreasonable search and seizure. American culture was built out of the core principles of the BOR. individualism based on a healthy skepticism of government interference. Unfortunately, imo that has greatly degraded the more we invite gov in. English was a given.

But the sports part and the other examples are aspects of the core principle of individualism and expression. Is a hijab traditionally American? Nah. Is someone pushing boundaries and expressing their individuality? You betcha.

Well, that's great then; anyone who accept the bill of rights shares American culture then!

So anyone opposed to the right to abortion, or supports things like mandatory school prayer, or the right to burn the American flag; each of which being ruled to fall within the bill of rights remit; is not culturally American, right?
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/2/2016 7:37:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Actually, I will correct that; Roe vs Wade was ruled based on the 14th Amendment. So not the bill of rights.

I'm figuring that you sort of meant all of the amnedments, though.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/2/2016 7:53:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 7:35:50 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:05:16 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:51:42 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture

So it doesn't matter what holidays they celebrate, whether they want to wear a hijab, whether they speak English, like any sports, or celebrate any national holidays? As long as they "exercise" the bill of rights, whatever that means; I mean it's hard for a civilian to exercise the right to no search or seizure without a warrant...

No but it is the American way to fight unreasonable search and seizure. American culture was built out of the core principles of the BOR. individualism based on a healthy skepticism of government interference. Unfortunately, imo that has greatly degraded the more we invite gov in. English was a given.

But the sports part and the other examples are aspects of the core principle of individualism and expression. Is a hijab traditionally American? Nah. Is someone pushing boundaries and expressing their individuality? You betcha.

Well, that's great then; anyone who accept the bill of rights shares American culture then!

So anyone opposed to the right to abortion, or supports things like mandatory school prayer, or the right to burn the American flag; each of which being ruled to fall within the bill of rights remit; is not culturally American, right?

How you made those leaps...

But anyway, expressing ones individuality is the aspect of falling within American culture. Yeah complaining and protesting that is the one consistent that has always been with us from the jump.

You mention abortion: when it was illegal, those protesting and advocating to make it legal were just as fundamentally representative of our culture as those who are trying to get it banned now. Freedom to express oneself, shoot off their big mouth, to assemble like minded individuals has been the core of our culture since before the declaration.

It is just as American to complain about Christmas as it is to celebrate. I may not like half the stuff but that appears to me to be the quintessential American value: the right to be a pain. I may have phrased it backward but the BOR is an outgrowth of our culture, not the other way around. Sports and songs and foods, those are just snapshots of eras and generations. The underlying value seems to be protest
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/2/2016 8:34:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 7:53:54 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:35:50 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:05:16 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:51:42 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture

So it doesn't matter what holidays they celebrate, whether they want to wear a hijab, whether they speak English, like any sports, or celebrate any national holidays? As long as they "exercise" the bill of rights, whatever that means; I mean it's hard for a civilian to exercise the right to no search or seizure without a warrant...

No but it is the American way to fight unreasonable search and seizure. American culture was built out of the core principles of the BOR. individualism based on a healthy skepticism of government interference. Unfortunately, imo that has greatly degraded the more we invite gov in. English was a given.

But the sports part and the other examples are aspects of the core principle of individualism and expression. Is a hijab traditionally American? Nah. Is someone pushing boundaries and expressing their individuality? You betcha.

Well, that's great then; anyone who accept the bill of rights shares American culture then!

So anyone opposed to the right to abortion, or supports things like mandatory school prayer, or the right to burn the American flag; each of which being ruled to fall within the bill of rights remit; is not culturally American, right?

How you made those leaps...

But anyway, expressing ones individuality is the aspect of falling within American culture. Yeah complaining and protesting that is the one consistent that has always been with us from the jump.

You mention abortion: when it was illegal, those protesting and advocating to make it legal were just as fundamentally representative of our culture as those who are trying to get it banned now. Freedom to express oneself, shoot off their big mouth, to assemble like minded individuals has been the core of our culture since before the declaration.

It is just as American to complain about Christmas as it is to celebrate. I may not like half the stuff but that appears to me to be the quintessential American value: the right to be a pain. I may have phrased it backward but the BOR is an outgrowth of our culture, not the other way around. Sports and songs and foods, those are just snapshots of eras and generations. The underlying value seems to be protest

Firstly, you're trying to say freedom of speech is quintissentially American. It's not really. In fact, most democracies have it, and indeed it's pretty well excepted in most places; including a number of places you wouldn't consider "American" by any means.

I wouldn't disagree that the acceptance and respect of the freedoms the bill of rights affords in general, is one facet of American culture; but it gets more complicated as I said, because it's not all cut and dried that to celebrate american culture, you have to accept the freedoms of the bill of rights because, in many situations and scenarios, people use those same freedoms to protest and demand that other freedoms also enshrined are changed too: You have people wanting to ban abortion, and others wanting to limit the sale of firearms for example; both are using free speech to argue a change in the accepted interpretation of the constitution.

So when you say, an acceptance and exercise of the freedoms afforded by the constitution; how is that even possible to define when you have broad swathes of the country that fundamentally disagree on what those freedoms really mean. Moreover, what is the line? What is your view on how much one needs to disagree with the Bill of Rights and what it means before you're considered not-culturally American.

Even worse, I'm British, I respect and agree with everything the Bill of Rights says, but I am very much not American culturally or otherwise in any sense of the word.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/2/2016 9:06:11 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 8:34:17 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:53:54 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:35:50 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 7:05:16 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:51:42 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:41:46 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/2/2016 6:37:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:09:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Melting pot. Too many cultures can lead to the muddying of any sort of American identity and culture, which leads to cultural divisions that a country shouldn't have. "American" as a culture should exist, to a certain extent, which is why I also believe English should be a required and official language.

American Identity and Culture.

What is that, please define it; can you get a majority of people to agree that this is American Culture and Identity is, or is it just what you think it should be. Are all of them requirements; e.g: is it okay if someone doesn't like American Football, or celebrate thanksgiving?

What is it about your definition of American Culture, and people in America doing things differently that would cause "cultural divisions" and why. Please give examples.

Simple dude: the Bill of flipping Rights and exercise of them. That's American Culture

So it doesn't matter what holidays they celebrate, whether they want to wear a hijab, whether they speak English, like any sports, or celebrate any national holidays? As long as they "exercise" the bill of rights, whatever that means; I mean it's hard for a civilian to exercise the right to no search or seizure without a warrant...

No but it is the American way to fight unreasonable search and seizure. American culture was built out of the core principles of the BOR. individualism based on a healthy skepticism of government interference. Unfortunately, imo that has greatly degraded the more we invite gov in. English was a given.

But the sports part and the other examples are aspects of the core principle of individualism and expression. Is a hijab traditionally American? Nah. Is someone pushing boundaries and expressing their individuality? You betcha.

Well, that's great then; anyone who accept the bill of rights shares American culture then!

So anyone opposed to the right to abortion, or supports things like mandatory school prayer, or the right to burn the American flag; each of which being ruled to fall within the bill of rights remit; is not culturally American, right?

How you made those leaps...

But anyway, expressing ones individuality is the aspect of falling within American culture. Yeah complaining and protesting that is the one consistent that has always been with us from the jump.

You mention abortion: when it was illegal, those protesting and advocating to make it legal were just as fundamentally representative of our culture as those who are trying to get it banned now. Freedom to express oneself, shoot off their big mouth, to assemble like minded individuals has been the core of our culture since before the declaration.

It is just as American to complain about Christmas as it is to celebrate. I may not like half the stuff but that appears to me to be the quintessential American value: the right to be a pain. I may have phrased it backward but the BOR is an outgrowth of our culture, not the other way around. Sports and songs and foods, those are just snapshots of eras and generations. The underlying value seems to be protest

Firstly, you're trying to say freedom of speech is quintissentially American. It's not really. In fact, most democracies have it, and indeed it's pretty well excepted in most places; including a number of places you wouldn't consider "American" by any means.

I wouldn't disagree that the acceptance and respect of the freedoms the bill of rights affords in general, is one facet of American culture; but it gets more complicated as I said, because it's not all cut and dried that to celebrate american culture, you have to accept the freedoms of the bill of rights because, in many situations and scenarios, people use those same freedoms to protest and demand that other freedoms also enshrined are changed too: You have people wanting to ban abortion, and others wanting to limit the sale of firearms for example; both are using free speech to argue a change in the accepted interpretation of the constitution.

So when you say, an acceptance and exercise of the freedoms afforded by the constitution; how is that even possible to define when you have broad swathes of the country that fundamentally disagree on what those freedoms really mean. Moreover, what is the line? What is your view on how much one needs to disagree with the Bill of Rights and what it means before you're considered not-culturally American.

Even worse, I'm British, I respect and agree with everything the Bill of Rights says, but I am very much not American culturally or otherwise in any sense of the word.

You missed my point in there somewhere....

The quintessential aspect of American culture is the protest. You are correct: we bicker amongst ourselves like siblings. We'll argue about how to say tomato. It isn't just speech, or assembly, or religion... Hell none of us agree on any of it. But that's the protest I'm referring too. We are never happy and keep challenging each other, and authority, over it. That's why I say rugged individualism combined with a healthy skepticism of government. The BOR is an outgrowth of the core of our culture, not its source.

That and we hate being told what to do. Lol
Capital
Posts: 588
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9/2/2016 9:50:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Id prefer just doing what Trump said and keeping the us race stats the same
Im not a Nazi
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/3/2016 12:25:15 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 9:06:11 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
Even worse, I'm British, I respect and agree with everything the Bill of Rights says, but I am very much not American culturally or otherwise in any sense of the word.

You missed my point in there somewhere....

The quintessential aspect of American culture is the protest. You are correct: we bicker amongst ourselves like siblings. We'll argue about how to say tomato. It isn't just speech, or assembly, or religion... Hell none of us agree on any of it. But that's the protest I'm referring too. We are never happy and keep challenging each other, and authority, over it. That's why I say rugged individualism combined with a healthy skepticism of government. The BOR is an outgrowth of the core of our culture, not its source.

That and we hate being told what to do. Lol

I would actually disagree to a point here, the quintessential aspect of American culture isn't protest; being opinionated in general, and how you express, sure. I'd probably (tongue in cheek) say that protest it is a quintessential aspect of French culture. Indeed, there is more of subtle distrust of authority in the US than anything else, but...

You said, in your reply originally, that it's the bill of rights that is part of your cultural definition. Protest and free speech, are only two clauses of one amendment of that bill of rights; in a roundabout way, I somewhat agree with you, but you can understand my confusion, I'm sure.

But, if you go back to my original post; my real issue here isn't with you, but with people throwing the word "culture" about as the person I was quoting was.

I have seen this thrown around as some undisclosed quality which is left undefined and unspoken, yet which it is asserted that people who come to the us that don't have this undefined and unspoken culture can't adapt, and won't fit in; and that it causes problems.

Now (and this isn't addressing you, but further to my point above), there most assuredly are cultural clashes; some religious beliefs; such as the rights of women, genital mutilation, enforced gender roles and the like to specifically clash with both the law and a more collective morality that the country as a whole has moved to. Language and communication are also important; solely because it can be a barrier to tighter integration.

My problem, is that this abstract use of the word culture and identity is thrown about without any definition or elaboration or explanation about what is the real aspect of different cultures that is the root cause of these problems. It gives the impression that what people really mean is that there is a group of people that are "different", and that being different, on it's own, is a problem; and yet as they can find no real objective reason why a big group of people is, in general, a problem; they have to mask it with abstract definitions, and undefined words that anyone can insert their own meaning into.

That may not be the case, it could very well be that there are legitimate cultural differences that prevent whatever it is that "American Culture" is mixing with <insert demographic here> culture successfully. Hence, why I asked the question :)
Stymie13
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9/3/2016 12:33:58 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 7:37:30 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
Actually, I will correct that; Roe vs Wade was ruled based on the 14th Amendment. So not the bill of rights.

I'm figuring that you sort of meant all of the amnedments, though.

Not really. Abortion was more of an evolutionary process societally. It's not part of culture anymore than inserting prosthetic knees
Bob13
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9/3/2016 2:22:53 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?

Which would you prefer?

Immigrants should choose whether they want to maintain their culture or assimilate into ours. I have no problem with either one.
I don't have a signature. :-)
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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9/3/2016 5:30:40 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/2/2016 4:07:22 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
What are your thoughts on it?
We have aspects of multi-culturalism and being a melting pot.

Which would you prefer?

Both. What concerns me is how quick some people are to expect minorities to conform to mainstream norms of etiquette and values, but frown upon minority cultural norms being adopted by individuals who are supposedly mainstream. If we are truly to become a melting pot, than it should be acceptable for anyone of any race to choose the cultural norms that they prefer.

I believe SJW's and the like, when calling out cultural appropriation, are actually doing the bidding for a larger white supremacist movement who expects that only their culture should be appropriated. You never hear about them complaining when minorities conform to mainstream social norms, but if someone who could easily blend into the mainstream chooses to identify with minority cultural norms SJWs and the like are the first to attempt to incite indignation among the groups that supposedly are being appropriated. Don't believe the hype!