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Growing up trans- a stream of consciousness

thett3
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9/4/2016 6:26:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Growing up trans is a documentary about parents who gravely abuse their children by trying to turn them into the opposite sex. It can be found here: http://www.pbs.org...

I will be stream of consciousness reviewing it here. I need to vent for the purpose of my sanity.

00:20 "I've been a boy for three years and I was a girl for six"

WHAT. THE. FVCK. A SIX YEAR OLD IS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING A LIFE ALTERING DECISION LIKE THIS.

00:25 "Me turning into a man is probably the most horrifying thing ever"

Yea, it's definitely better for this boys mental health for his parents to allow him to pretend to be a girl before nature forces him into being a man

00:30 "With hormones I can get a deep voice, I can get a beard, I can get a flat chest"

WHAT

00:42 "We just had to listen to what we heard from our child. Nothing else mattered."

THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. These people are abdicating on their parental responsibilities just so they can signal their progressivism.

01:45 *A nine year old* "I was born male, but identify as female...I transitioned when I was 6 or 7"

Who put these ideas into his head? What kind of monster would spread these ideas to a toddler?

02:59 "Just a generation ago, it was adults, not children, who changed genders"

WHY GOD WHY

04:40 *A different 9 year old* "I've been a boy for 3 years and I was a girl for 6"

Six? SIX?!?! This is genuinely sickening.

08:30 "It's now possible for [kids] to never have to go through the puberty of their biological sex"

WHAT

09:30 "One of the biggest developments came in 2007 with the invention of hormone blockers"

WHAT

09:50 "If we put the pause button on puberty, we're giving children a little more time to grow and develop"

If you're stopping them from hitting puberty you are stopping them from growing or developing you fcking evil charlatan witch.

10:10 "But the treatment of transgender kids can be controversial. It"s a field of medicine with very little research, and the few studies that do exist suggest that for most kids, the distress about gender will shift with time...The majority of children with gender dysphoria will not grow up to be transgender adolescents or adults...Our goal is to try to figure out which children are going to continue to identify as different than their natal sex. And we don"t have any definitive test to do that right now. "

THEN WHAT THE FCK ARE YOU DOING?!?!?

WHY ARE YOU BLOCKING THEIR PUBERTY IF YOU CANT DETERMINE WHO WILL REMAIN TRANS

12:25 "starting puberty-blocking medications as early as possible is really important for some people who are really experiencing distress."

No. No no no no no no no no no no

Why? Why why why why

13:40 "And its FDA approval is for men with prostate cancer, but this has been used successfully by pediatric endocrinologists taking care of kids like Daniel, and it seems to work just as well and it is a lot less expensive. And so, you know, Vantas is not" it"s not approved for children, but none of these medications are actually approved for use in this situation""

WHAT.

How is this even legal?? WHAT

14:20: "So whether it is having any negative effect on their adult bone density or their neurologic development I think is" we don"t know."

WHAT THE FCK ARE YOU DOING THEN?!?! WHAT THE FCK

14:56 "This generation of kids are really" they"re the pioneers. They"re going to be the ones to teach us."

Are you seriously using children as medical "pioneers"?

23:25: "I have my imaginary world, and that"s one of my coping strategies. Like, when I"m feeling down or depressed, I"ll kind of, like, go into my imaginary world. And in my imaginary world, I am a guy. I have a flat chest. I"m strong....And like, if I"m feeling so down that I just can"t talk, they"ll sing or listen to music and dance with me. And that definitely helps...It"s kind of like a telepathic thing. I can hear them in my head... But like, I"ve brought them over so much that I think the line has definitely, like, thinned and kind of become blurry."

This child is extremely and needs to be helped. But her parents will never get her the help she needs.

This is truly horrifying, and sickening.

30:05 "It"s, like" it"s so hard to explain. It"s, like" but I"m, like, a girl, so it"s" but it"s, like, could I" could I, like, have the pain of labor? Could I have to deal with that? "

No. Because you don't have a womb. And also because you're 11

34:50 "I"ve been struggling with depression for about four years. It"s more anxiety and sadness, the kind of depression I have. I have medicines to, like, boost my" my happiness, but those don"t always work.

I had thoughts of hurting myself, cutting myself, killing myself even. I got very close, very close, twice. I was just thinking I can"t do it anymore. I can"t live like this. I can"t live in this body. It"s not going to work."

I don't know what the solution to this is. I really don't. But I know that blocking the puberty of children and mutilating their genitals is not the answer

37:30 "But Kyle is still hoping to start testosterone."

WHAT

39:19 "So testosterone as a medication has been around, obviously, for a long time. The way we would consider using it here sort for a cross-sex sort of way, there aren"t, like, a tremendous amount of studies that have been done to document, like, all the potential side effects and the risks and benefits."

THEN DONT PRESCRIBE IT TO KIDS IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN YOU LUNATIC

44:10 "Cross-hormones I can"t wait for. It"s going to mean that I"m going to start being able to gain muscle easier, the way guys should be able to. My voice is going to drop. I"m going to get an Adam"s apple. Woo-hoo! I can get a deep voice, I can get a beard, I can get a flat chest. Did someone look at my Christmas list?"

https://pbs.twimg.com...

46:20 "On line is a great place for trans people. The Internet is the best place you can go to if you"re, like, scared about talking to anyone. The Internet" like, Tumblr. Oh, my God, Tumblr. And just YouTube, too. YouTube is, like, one of the" that"s how I found out I was trans. It was from a YouTube video that I found a long time ago.

"And just YouTube, too. YouTube is, like, one of the" that"s how I found out I was trans. It was from a YouTube video that I found a long time ago."

"that"s how I found out I was trans. It was from a YouTube video."

.....

My kids are never using the internet.

57:30 "I wouldn"t really want to produce sperm. I really wouldn"t. Like, I don"t want to have a child that way...Yeah, I want" well, of course I"m going to have children, but I"m just not going to have them that way."

Why is the "therapist" in this video just letting this boy think that he can give birth? How can indulging in that delusion possibly be healthy?

1:00:15 "Alex and his mom come to the clinic every six weeks for an injection of Lupron, the puberty blocker. But today, they are also here to sign a consent form for testosterone."

https://pbs.twimg.com...

1:02:24 "It"s not known whether this increases the risk of ovarian cancer, breast cancer or uterine cancer. "

....

Then why are you prescribing it? This is straight up medical malpractice.

1:07:44 "I was prom queen...My friend, A.J., who"s gender nonconforming, was prom king."

Enough said

1:22:00 "I really hope what we"re doing is the right thing."

It's not. Damn you.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS, THESE PEOPLE ARE CHILDREN. THEY ARENT EVEN ALLOWED TO SEE A PG-13 MOVIE BUT THEY SHOULD BE TRUSTED TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO BLOCK PUBERTY??!?!?! FVCK THIS GAY EARTH

Your tax dollars paid for this favorable documentary. This is the epitome of evil. We live in a deeply, deeply screwed up society.

Kill me.
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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
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9/4/2016 6:49:36 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
One of the unpredicted side effects of the gay rights movement was that it broke down the hold on legitimacy that psychology had on a lot of different areas. One of those areas was transgender issues, gender dysphoria, and the like. This has spilled over into pop culture, pop psychology, and the like.

Many people are conceptually unable to distinguish the differences between, for example, sexual orientation and gender. The difference is this: while on the one hand, sexual orientation pertains to which sex (which often correlates with gender) a person is romantically attracted to, on the other, gender describes the normative expression of sex. Sexual orientation is innate, like gender.

While it is conceivable that in the womb, or due to genetic occurrences, or other things, that sex and gender can fail to correlate--as is ostensibly the case in instances of transgendered persons--there is a critical difference between "learning what gender you are and what that means" and "being transgendered."

In many instances, boys when they are children like to experiment with girly things. They like to play with "mommy's makeup" or play dress up and stuff like that. Girls also like to dress up like boys, act like boys, and the like. This type of behavior is highly normal behavior, and it has been going on since humans have existed.

What is not normal is the parental reaction to that behavior we're seeing take place now. Many parents, who, in effort to do what they think is "good" for their child, encourage their boys to dress like girls, and their girls to get their hair cut like boys, because *that* is the world we live in now. Parents think they are advancing the cause of social justice in their own homes and that they are doing "better" for their children than their parents would have done.

This isn't even an issue, until parents encourage behavior of this kind to the point that boys do not recognize the difference between what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a girl; or when girls don't know the difference between what it means to be a girl and a boy. The reason that this is most sad is because this behavior, if encouraged, can escalate... and has I think in certain cases, some of which may have been exhibited in this documentary.

Children look to their parents for cues and direction as to how they are going to understand and organize their world; but when parents indulge their children in some kind of non-gendered alternate reality, and, more importantly, are *rewarded* for this behavior (e.g. boys wearing dresses), then the behavior will manifest itself more often. Parents think they are simply encouraging their child to confidently express themselves, but children are in the same instance trying to please their parents who are, very much, rewarding non-typical behavior, ensuring its continued frequency of occurrence.

Before long, you have a normal boy who may tell his parents that he identifies as a girl, or a girl who identifies as a boy; yet, they are not intellectually mature enough to be able to understand what that means even though they are physically able to use the language 'I identify as a girl" or "I feel like a boy' because their parents have used language consistent with that around them. But, at the same time, because of the un-gendered or atypical environment such children have grown up in, they lack the conceptual understanding of what gender differences even are. Parents assume, all the while, that their children just figured it out on their own.... when their kid is like six.

This is a kind of benevolent idiocy; benevolent because the parent intends to do well, idiocy because they are in fact doing harm they lack the ability to understand. Benevolent idiocy is bad, and the reasons we even have it are worse. Those reasons for why such idiocy manifests in parenting centralize around the "social justice" goals and pursuits that many younger people have today; they mean to do well, but cause catastrophic damage in their wake.

I might post some more on this later... but idk. The topic doesn't really interest me on a substantive level. It just irks me to think that this new kind of child neglect has become so celebrated in the culture.
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bsh1
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9/4/2016 8:44:15 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I definitely have qualms with some of the things Thett noted parents doing in the OP. Pressuring kids, esp. at such young ages, in that way is not good, and it is something parents should avoid.

However, I think we should be careful about saying that this kind of upbringing is a common thread among trans kids, or that it necessarily causes transgenderism. Transgenderism was around long, long before the phenomenon described in the OP. Think also of all the transgendered people rejected by their parents or community for their feelings. Obviously, their transgenderism was not caused by this kind of "parental incitement."

Similarly, children who are exposed to opposite-sex toys and stuff are not bound to be transgendered. I know, for example, that when I was little, I used to play with dolls and things when I went over to my female friend's houses, but that didn't turn me trans. In fact, I preferred those dolls and things (and stuffed animals at my house) to action figures or more stereo-typically masculine toys, which I almost always neglected to touch. Those experiences and preferences didn't "turn me trans," though my parents never objected to my preferences in toys (in fact, they encouraged some of my choices). In fact, I am perfectly happy being a guy.

And at the risk of sounding like an SJW, I think we should be careful to not delegitimize the feelings of all transgendered people by some of the dialogue I've seen in the foregoing posts. There is a reasonable debate to be had about what parents should do when encountering behavior that is outside gender stereotypes for their kids, but I think that there is a high degree of risk that the conversation may simply turn to: "trans people are just mentally ill freaks who need counseling and a good f*ck to turn them around."

Personally, I think parents should be as hands-off as possible in letting their child select their toys. If a male child expresses an interest in dolls, neither encourage or discourage the choice, but respect the choice. Buy the dolls, but don't praise or castigate the child for it. I think that's a reasonable perspective though it may be hard to implement perfectly (though that's true of pretty much everything in parenting).
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bsh1
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9/4/2016 8:53:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
In other words, I think the question we should ask is not "can people genuinely and validly feel transgendered/are all teams people just messed up by their SJW parents" but rather "how can we prevent parents from pressuring kids to make life altering decisions at young ages, and how can we equip them to cope with a child who expresses an identity contrary to their biological gender."
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Capital
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9/4/2016 1:16:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/4/2016 6:49:36 AM, YYW wrote:
One of the unpredicted side effects of the gay rights movement was that it broke down the hold on legitimacy that psychology had on a lot of different areas. One of those areas was transgender issues, gender dysphoria, and the like. This has spilled over into pop culture, pop psychology, and the like.

Many people are conceptually unable to distinguish the differences between, for example, sexual orientation and gender. The difference is this: while on the one hand, sexual orientation pertains to which sex (which often correlates with gender) a person is romantically attracted to, on the other, gender describes the normative expression of sex. Sexual orientation is innate, like gender.

While it is conceivable that in the womb, or due to genetic occurrences, or other things, that sex and gender can fail to correlate--as is ostensibly the case in instances of transgendered persons--there is a critical difference between "learning what gender you are and what that means" and "being transgendered."

In many instances, boys when they are children like to experiment with girly things. They like to play with "mommy's makeup" or play dress up and stuff like that. Girls also like to dress up like boys, act like boys, and the like. This type of behavior is highly normal behavior, and it has been going on since humans have existed.

What is not normal is the parental reaction to that behavior we're seeing take place now. Many parents, who, in effort to do what they think is "good" for their child, encourage their boys to dress like girls, and their girls to get their hair cut like boys, because *that* is the world we live in now. Parents think they are advancing the cause of social justice in their own homes and that they are doing "better" for their children than their parents would have done.

This isn't even an issue, until parents encourage behavior of this kind to the point that boys do not recognize the difference between what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a girl; or when girls don't know the difference between what it means to be a girl and a boy. The reason that this is most sad is because this behavior, if encouraged, can escalate... and has I think in certain cases, some of which may have been exhibited in this documentary.

Children look to their parents for cues and direction as to how they are going to understand and organize their world; but when parents indulge their children in some kind of non-gendered alternate reality, and, more importantly, are *rewarded* for this behavior (e.g. boys wearing dresses), then the behavior will manifest itself more often. Parents think they are simply encouraging their child to confidently express themselves, but children are in the same instance trying to please their parents who are, very much, rewarding non-typical behavior, ensuring its continued frequency of occurrence.

Before long, you have a normal boy who may tell his parents that he identifies as a girl, or a girl who identifies as a boy; yet, they are not intellectually mature enough to be able to understand what that means even though they are physically able to use the language 'I identify as a girl" or "I feel like a boy' because their parents have used language consistent with that around them. But, at the same time, because of the un-gendered or atypical environment such children have grown up in, they lack the conceptual understanding of what gender differences even are. Parents assume, all the while, that their children just figured it out on their own.... when their kid is like six.

This is a kind of benevolent idiocy; benevolent because the parent intends to do well, idiocy because they are in fact doing harm they lack the ability to understand. Benevolent idiocy is bad, and the reasons we even have it are worse. Those reasons for why such idiocy manifests in parenting centralize around the "social justice" goals and pursuits that many younger people have today; they mean to do well, but cause catastrophic damage in their wake.

I might post some more on this later... but idk. The topic doesn't really interest me on a substantive level. It just irks me to think that this new kind of child neglect has become so celebrated in the culture.

No the parents are just liberal retards. Cant wait for their to be a documentary on these children mourning and hating their parents for mutilating them

Fvcking NON CIS SCUM
Im not a Nazi
Skepsikyma
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9/4/2016 1:45:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/4/2016 6:26:34 AM, thett3 wrote:
57:30 "I wouldn"t really want to produce sperm. I really wouldn"t. Like, I don"t want to have a child that way...Yeah, I want" well, of course I"m going to have children, but I"m just not going to have them that way."

Why is the "therapist" in this video just letting this boy think that he can give birth? How can indulging in that delusion possibly be healthy?

In all seriousness, I find giving anyone under the age of 18 this sort of therapy to be beyond disgusting. There can be serious psychological ramifications to gender transition, and children, surprise surprise, are not mature enough to weigh those consequences. In most cases, it's parents who are staggeringly ignorant at best, or who put their political ideology above the welfare of their children at worst.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
thett3
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9/4/2016 4:19:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/4/2016 8:44:15 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I definitely have qualms with some of the things Thett noted parents doing in the OP. Pressuring kids, esp. at such young ages, in that way is not good, and it is something parents should avoid.

However, I think we should be careful about saying that this kind of upbringing is a common thread among trans kids, or that it necessarily causes transgenderism. Transgenderism was around long, long before the phenomenon described in the OP. Think also of all the transgendered people rejected by their parents or community for their feelings. Obviously, their transgenderism was not caused by this kind of "parental incitement."

Similarly, children who are exposed to opposite-sex toys and stuff are not bound to be transgendered. I know, for example, that when I was little, I used to play with dolls and things when I went over to my female friend's houses, but that didn't turn me trans. In fact, I preferred those dolls and things (and stuffed animals at my house) to action figures or more stereo-typically masculine toys, which I almost always neglected to touch. Those experiences and preferences didn't "turn me trans," though my parents never objected to my preferences in toys (in fact, they encouraged some of my choices). In fact, I am perfectly happy being a guy.

Yes, exactly. It's not uncommon at all for boys to sometimes play with dolls or play dress up, especially if they have sisters, or for girls to play with toy weapons. Sometimes it's just what they like to do from time to time and other times they're genuinely more feminine then the other boys (I had a friend like this growing up)...but the solution is not to pump them full dangerous and unknown chemicals.

My God, some of these kids "came out" as trans when they were 6. That is absurd, and the only way a toddler could think of something like that is if one of their parents were already hitting them with propaganda "You know honey, some boys who play with dolls are actually girls. Are you a girl?" Or perhaps the child said something like "I'm a girl mommy!" and the deeply insane parents took it was face value.

Another weird thing was at least one of the boys essentially defined his entire identity as not being a boy--to the point where when he was like 8 he insisted on his parents calling him a different girls name each day, and said that turning into a man (which is whats going to happen to him) is the worst thing he can possibly imagine. It's child abuse to indulge that child. No, becoming a man is not the worst thing that could ever happen and yes, it is going to happen to you so you'd better get used to it. I mean, I don't know how to handle it because this is obvious mental illness but indulging them is the worst thing you can possibly do.

Yet another child displayed clear schizophrenic tendencies--hearing voices, blurring the lines between reality and fiction, and they were just waved off. The "psychologists" diagnosing her said that she was perfectly fine nothing to see here! And also, pump her body full of testosterone and hormone blockers to make sure she doesn't grow breasts.

It's more than that, too. They said they have no idea how these medicines will effect the children in terms of growth, bone density, who the fck knows what else...there is literally no other area of medicine where this sort of experimentation on children would be in any way acceptable.


And at the risk of sounding like an SJW, I think we should be careful to not delegitimize the feelings of all transgendered people by some of the dialogue I've seen in the foregoing posts. There is a reasonable debate to be had about what parents should do when encountering behavior that is outside gender stereotypes for their kids, but I think that there is a high degree of risk that the conversation may simply turn to: "trans people are just mentally ill freaks who need counseling and a good f*ck to turn them around."

There really isn't reasonable debate in medicinal terms. Blocking puberty is nothing more than abuse--I don't care if the kid thinks that they want it, it's the parents job to say no.

The parents should either leave their kid alone or gently encourage them to play with their genders toys. I would bet that for a lot of them the dissonance began with an overbearing father yelling "NO YOU CANNOT PLAY WITH DOLLS" and taking them away, only for mother to quietly return them and say it's okay the moment he left for work. It's like that scene from Bad Santa where the bartender went home with Billy Bob Thorton (dressed as Santa) because her dad never let them celebrate Christmas as a kid. If you make too big of a deal out of it, you risk making it a "weird, forbidden thing" that they fixate one.

What kind of sick world do we live in where our public television favorably documents parents who inject their children with unknown chemicals, but jails parents who let their children play outside of their backyard? Injecting your boy with estrogen and medicine designed to help with prostate cancer is totally safe and okay bigot, but playing on a merry-go-round or a jungle gym? Wandering in the woods unsupervised? Beyond the pale.

This image sums up how I feel about everything right now: https://pbs.twimg.com...


Personally, I think parents should be as hands-off as possible in letting their child select their toys. If a male child expresses an interest in dolls, neither encourage or discourage the choice, but respect the choice. Buy the dolls, but don't praise or castigate the child for it. I think that's a reasonable perspective though it may be hard to implement perfectly (though that's true of pretty much everything in parenting).
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Greyparrot
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9/4/2016 5:06:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/4/2016 4:19:54 PM, thett3 wrote:

It's more than that, too. They said they have no idea how these medicines will effect the children in terms of growth, bone density, who the fck knows what else...there is literally no other area of medicine where this sort of experimentation on children would be in any way acceptable.
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