Total Posts:36|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Edward Snowden

ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2016 8:39:03 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
As a side note, I think it's kinda funny -- the only account Snowden is following on Twitter is the NSA. XD

[https://twitter.com...]
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2016 7:27:26 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Didn't they also make a movie out of him?

Generally I support Snowden and he was a freedom fighter who exposed the NSA's tyranny. The US should welcome him back without having him face any penalties.
mc9
Posts: 1,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2016 8:07:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 7:27:26 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Didn't they also make a movie out of him?

Generally I support Snowden and he was a freedom fighter who exposed the NSA's tyranny. The US should welcome him back without having him face any penalties.

I think you said this very well
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 3:25:11 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/17/2016 7:27:26 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Didn't they also make a movie out of him?

I believe so.

Generally I support Snowden and he was a freedom fighter who exposed the NSA's tyranny. The US should welcome him back without having him face any penalties.

I agree, to an extent.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:28:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/16/2016 8:39:03 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
As a side note, I think it's kinda funny -- the only account Snowden is following on Twitter is the NSA. XD

[https://twitter.com...]

Lmao
Meh!
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:30:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:10:34 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Hero.

Agreed. I still think there should be some punishment for breaking the law, though.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:31:43 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:28:54 AM, Axonly wrote:

It's hilarious. It's a hardcore troll on the US gov. xD
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
lannan13
Posts: 23,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:57:13 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/16/2016 8:39:03 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
As a side note, I think it's kinda funny -- the only account Snowden is following on Twitter is the NSA. XD

[https://twitter.com...]

lol
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 12:32:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:57:13 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:39:03 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
As a side note, I think it's kinda funny -- the only account Snowden is following on Twitter is the NSA. XD

[https://twitter.com...]

lol

Ikr? Lol XD
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 2:51:18 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Yea, this is not a binary sort of thing. Its easy and feels good to celebrate his actions, call him a hero. Problem with that is, he made a decision with little true understanding of all the repercussions. The NSA program, right or wrong, should not be undone by a single low-level employee.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:06:06 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 2:51:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Yea, this is not a binary sort of thing. Its easy and feels good to celebrate his actions, call him a hero. Problem with that is, he made a decision with little true understanding of all the repercussions.

Agreed. He exposed corruption, but still needs some punishment for the illegality in doing so.

The NSA program, right or wrong, should not be undone by a single low-level employee.

Why should it not be undone by a single low-level employee?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:08:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

He was the liberal champion until he started whistle blowing Hillary. Free thinkers tend to blow peoples' minds.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:16:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:06:06 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 2:51:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Yea, this is not a binary sort of thing. Its easy and feels good to celebrate his actions, call him a hero. Problem with that is, he made a decision with little true understanding of all the repercussions.

Agreed. He exposed corruption, but still needs some punishment for the illegality in doing so.

The NSA program, right or wrong, should not be undone by a single low-level employee.

Why should it not be undone by a single low-level employee?

Because, as I said, he had no idea what the wider repercussions would be. He, anyone in a limited roll, is operating without the larger picture.

We excuse this because we wanted the information. That is no better, really, then celebrating anyone who trades legit secrets.

I have worked in IT my entire life. The information I have had access to has value to many people. I have kept the data secure my entire life, and am very proud of that. If, say, I had access to your complete financial information, and outed it because I felt you had some shady dealings - is that OK? Who decides what data is secure and not? Some guy who just happens to have access to the data? Bad precedent.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,880
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:17:48 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:06:06 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 2:51:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Yea, this is not a binary sort of thing. Its easy and feels good to celebrate his actions, call him a hero. Problem with that is, he made a decision with little true understanding of all the repercussions.

Agreed. He exposed corruption, but still needs some punishment for the illegality in doing so.

The NSA program, right or wrong, should not be undone by a single low-level employee.

Why should it not be undone by a single low-level employee?

because it looks bad for them that someone like him did what he did I guess, you know rather than doing what's right, re evaluate what they are doing and how they do it, taking responsibility for their part.
but yes I wish he would have been smarter so they couldn't constantly make him the sole focus and be such distraction.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:19:07 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:16:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:06:06 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 2:51:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Yea, this is not a binary sort of thing. Its easy and feels good to celebrate his actions, call him a hero. Problem with that is, he made a decision with little true understanding of all the repercussions.

Agreed. He exposed corruption, but still needs some punishment for the illegality in doing so.

The NSA program, right or wrong, should not be undone by a single low-level employee.

Why should it not be undone by a single low-level employee?

Because, as I said, he had no idea what the wider repercussions would be. He, anyone in a limited roll, is operating without the larger picture.

We excuse this because we wanted the information. That is no better, really, then celebrating anyone who trades legit secrets.

I have worked in IT my entire life. The information I have had access to has value to many people. I have kept the data secure my entire life, and am very proud of that. If, say, I had access to your complete financial information, and outed it because I felt you had some shady dealings - is that OK? Who decides what data is secure and not? Some guy who just happens to have access to the data? Bad precedent.

But he saw some things, even at his level, that were honestly questionable. I don't think there are any "higher-level" circumstances which would justify what the NSA was doing.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:30:15 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:19:07 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:16:49 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:06:06 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 2:51:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

Yea, this is not a binary sort of thing. Its easy and feels good to celebrate his actions, call him a hero. Problem with that is, he made a decision with little true understanding of all the repercussions.

Agreed. He exposed corruption, but still needs some punishment for the illegality in doing so.

The NSA program, right or wrong, should not be undone by a single low-level employee.

Why should it not be undone by a single low-level employee?

Because, as I said, he had no idea what the wider repercussions would be. He, anyone in a limited roll, is operating without the larger picture.

We excuse this because we wanted the information. That is no better, really, then celebrating anyone who trades legit secrets.

I have worked in IT my entire life. The information I have had access to has value to many people. I have kept the data secure my entire life, and am very proud of that. If, say, I had access to your complete financial information, and outed it because I felt you had some shady dealings - is that OK? Who decides what data is secure and not? Some guy who just happens to have access to the data? Bad precedent.

But he saw some things, even at his level, that were honestly questionable. I don't think there are any "higher-level" circumstances which would justify what the NSA was doing.

There are legit ways to do this without potentially outing things that you really don't want to out. If we agree in this case that what the NSA was doing was wrong and we wanted him to out the information, well that works now, but what about another time, another case?

He, or any individual, has no right to out information just because he feels it should be released.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,320
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 4:54:17 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:10:34 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Hero.

He's not a hero. He was just a little spy who signed up to be a spy, spying on you from within the eyes of another that told him it was okay to now speak. If he did so otherwise, he would be dead. We now live in a world that has always been the world, wherein nobody can run and hide from the few eyes that can always see everything.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 5:05:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:30:15 PM, TBR wrote:
There are legit ways to do this without potentially outing things that you really don't want to out. If we agree in this case that what the NSA was doing was wrong and we wanted him to out the information, well that works now, but what about another time, another case?

He, or any individual, has no right to out information just because he feels it should be released.

Ah okay. I see what you mean. That's part of the reason I agree with punishing him -- but I do agree the information he released was needed for the public, and is quite troubling.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 7:17:11 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.


Well as long as you hand it to a republican it would work. Democrats, not so much. Cummings would start yelling about how everything is a right-wing conspiracy only done to parade everybody around and embarass them in front of the American people. Reid would run down to the Senate floor podium and say you have never paid your taxes, you slapped a baby, and you're a racist because you fart on every black person you walk by, then tell you it's your burden to prove you don't...then he will whisper to you on the way out, asking if you know of any Chinese people that wanna buy land, because he found a rancher's field he wants to confiscate and sell.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.

Disagree why? What he did is word for word treason.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 8:44:52 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 7:17:11 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.


Well as long as you hand it to a republican it would work. Democrats, not so much. Cummings would start yelling about how everything is a right-wing conspiracy only done to parade everybody around and embarass them in front of the American people. Reid would run down to the Senate floor podium and say you have never paid your taxes, you slapped a baby, and you're a racist because you fart on every black person you walk by, then tell you it's your burden to prove you don't...then he will whisper to you on the way out, asking if you know of any Chinese people that wanna buy land, because he found a rancher's field he wants to confiscate and sell.

Most of congress probably already knew most of what he revealed. Besides, there'd be plenty of Dems who would contest what the Republicans said if Snowden gave it to them. Media was the best whistle-blowing option.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.

Disagree why? What he did is word for word treason.

Too harsh.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 9:38:29 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 8:44:52 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:17:11 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.


Well as long as you hand it to a republican it would work. Democrats, not so much. Cummings would start yelling about how everything is a right-wing conspiracy only done to parade everybody around and embarass them in front of the American people. Reid would run down to the Senate floor podium and say you have never paid your taxes, you slapped a baby, and you're a racist because you fart on every black person you walk by, then tell you it's your burden to prove you don't...then he will whisper to you on the way out, asking if you know of any Chinese people that wanna buy land, because he found a rancher's field he wants to confiscate and sell.

Most of congress probably already knew most of what he revealed. Besides, there'd be plenty of Dems who would contest what the Republicans said if Snowden gave it to them. Media was the best whistle-blowing option.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.

Disagree why? What he did is word for word treason.

Too harsh.

Too harsh? Do you understand what he did and the results of what he did? We won't see the end of what he did for another 25 years.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 9:53:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 9:38:29 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 8:44:52 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:17:11 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.


Well as long as you hand it to a republican it would work. Democrats, not so much. Cummings would start yelling about how everything is a right-wing conspiracy only done to parade everybody around and embarass them in front of the American people. Reid would run down to the Senate floor podium and say you have never paid your taxes, you slapped a baby, and you're a racist because you fart on every black person you walk by, then tell you it's your burden to prove you don't...then he will whisper to you on the way out, asking if you know of any Chinese people that wanna buy land, because he found a rancher's field he wants to confiscate and sell.

Most of congress probably already knew most of what he revealed. Besides, there'd be plenty of Dems who would contest what the Republicans said if Snowden gave it to them. Media was the best whistle-blowing option.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.

Disagree why? What he did is word for word treason.

Too harsh.

Too harsh? Do you understand what he did and the results of what he did? We won't see the end of what he did for another 25 years.

Most of which were positive. And yeah, harsh.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 9:59:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 9:53:30 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 9:38:29 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 8:44:52 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:17:11 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.


Well as long as you hand it to a republican it would work. Democrats, not so much. Cummings would start yelling about how everything is a right-wing conspiracy only done to parade everybody around and embarass them in front of the American people. Reid would run down to the Senate floor podium and say you have never paid your taxes, you slapped a baby, and you're a racist because you fart on every black person you walk by, then tell you it's your burden to prove you don't...then he will whisper to you on the way out, asking if you know of any Chinese people that wanna buy land, because he found a rancher's field he wants to confiscate and sell.

Most of congress probably already knew most of what he revealed. Besides, there'd be plenty of Dems who would contest what the Republicans said if Snowden gave it to them. Media was the best whistle-blowing option.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.

Disagree why? What he did is word for word treason.

Too harsh.

Too harsh? Do you understand what he did and the results of what he did? We won't see the end of what he did for another 25 years.

Most of which were positive. And yeah, harsh.

All the money wasted on operations that operatives had to pull out of early, the operations that had to be scrapped right before launch, all of the intrusion systems we used on our enemies including ISIS had to be trashed and new software built, lost security for our networks, investigative techniques used to gather information on ISIS targets are now unuseable, and more.

What was good? We learned that the NSA was collecting phone data on citizens

Does that really outweigh all those bads?
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,315
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 10:04:05 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 9:59:59 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 9:53:30 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 9:38:29 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 8:44:52 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 7:17:11 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:15:35 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 4:10:39 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 9/16/2016 8:38:14 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I'm curious to see the general opinion of him, and of what he did as a whistle-blower. It's an issue that doesn't get near the attention it did a few years back, but it's still a pressing issue today. The election coming up is of great importance, but it seems to be the only thing capturing the eye of the politically-minded. I think there are other things, such as this, which should be addressed and discussed from time to time.

To relate this to the 2016 election, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have taken harsh stances against Snowden.

Here are a few great articles:

[https://www.wired.com...]

This one is regarding his pardon: [http://www.nytimes.com...]

If Snowden would have take the information he had stolen to congress, or selectively released it to the American TV media, I honestly would have no problem with what he did and would support his freedom 100%.

As if that would work.


Well as long as you hand it to a republican it would work. Democrats, not so much. Cummings would start yelling about how everything is a right-wing conspiracy only done to parade everybody around and embarass them in front of the American people. Reid would run down to the Senate floor podium and say you have never paid your taxes, you slapped a baby, and you're a racist because you fart on every black person you walk by, then tell you it's your burden to prove you don't...then he will whisper to you on the way out, asking if you know of any Chinese people that wanna buy land, because he found a rancher's field he wants to confiscate and sell.

Most of congress probably already knew most of what he revealed. Besides, there'd be plenty of Dems who would contest what the Republicans said if Snowden gave it to them. Media was the best whistle-blowing option.

However, since he decided not just to steal the information in order to show the American public what was going on, but also to go hand deliver it to our enemies...let him rot over there in Russia. Maybe they'll get fed up with him too and send him to one of those famous Siberian labor camps.

I disagree.

Disagree why? What he did is word for word treason.

Too harsh.

Too harsh? Do you understand what he did and the results of what he did? We won't see the end of what he did for another 25 years.

Most of which were positive. And yeah, harsh.

All the money wasted on operations that operatives had to pull out of early, the operations that had to be scrapped right before launch, all of the intrusion systems we used on our enemies including ISIS had to be trashed and new software built, lost security for our networks, investigative techniques used to gather information on ISIS targets are now unuseable, and more.

What was good? We learned that the NSA was collecting phone data on citizens

Does that really outweigh all those bads?

For the liberty of the people, yes.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2016 10:12:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Had he just released the existence of the metadata program and some of the abuses of the program, sure, I would support his pardon. However, as he has fled to China and now Russia, I guarantee he has given them secrets that not only harm our national security but go far beyond the metadata information he released.

He also released a lot of data that wasn't even pertinent to the NSA data collection.

Even if he had only released the metadata information, you could still make the case that he should still be tried for treason. His release of this information allowed terrorists and criminals to respond and use different modes of communication, making it harder for us to intercept their plots. So, even then, the case for trying him as a traitor could be justified.

I want to support whistle-blowers and my knee jerk reaction would be to pardon him. However, from the evidence I have seen, he is a traitor and should be treated as such.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/20/2016 1:23:45 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/19/2016 10:04:05 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/19/2016 9:59:59 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:

All the money wasted on operations that operatives had to pull out of early, the operations that had to be scrapped right before launch, all of the intrusion systems we used on our enemies including ISIS had to be trashed and new software built, lost security for our networks, investigative techniques used to gather information on ISIS targets are now unuseable, and more.

What was good? We learned that the NSA was collecting phone data on citizens

Does that really outweigh all those bads?

For the liberty of the people, yes.

Fair enough, let me ask two questions to expand upon your answer:

1) Did Snowden have to hand the stolen information to the Russians to preserve the liberty of the American people? Or were there other, more reasonable options available to him?

2) Did Snowden have to release ALL of that top secret / classified information in order to preserve the liberty of the America people, or could he have been responsibly selective and still get his point across? Keeping in mind that the issue Snowden wanted to make public was the NSA phone call data collection of American citizens.