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The Split- Democracy at its finest.

Plutarch
Posts: 2
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9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
America is facing a problem that till now has really been ignored, Division. We can't see eye to eye with anyone about anything, which is normal I admit, however the major problem is we are too ego driven. We have an idea and say so, but when someone says something that contradicts that idea you have their wrong. That people is the problem. The United States of America has never really been united, and accepting in any way at all. America needs a sense of unity, not this egotistical way of life that has stopped our country from being what we label our self as. Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world. Peace is a goal driven by hope of a better world, there is no peace here in the "United" States.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,894
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9/21/2016 12:29:09 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
America is facing a problem that till now has really been ignored, Division. We can't see eye to eye with anyone about anything, which is normal I admit, however the major problem is we are too ego driven. We have an idea and say so, but when someone says something that contradicts that idea you have their wrong. That people is the problem. The United States of America has never really been united, and accepting in any way at all. America needs a sense of unity, not this egotistical way of life that has stopped our country from being what we label our self as. Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world. Peace is a goal driven by hope of a better world, there is no peace here in the "United" States.

Although our government is elected I have serious doubts that they truly reflect the vast majority of Americans. The moderates are no were to be found. Government is no longer a way to serve your country but rather a way to gain power, importance and wealth. Granting favors to special interest groups that no other potions could. Conservatives have become more conservative to put things back into balance (the middle) while the liberals are going to their extreme seeing the conservatives going further away from the middle. So here we are at polar opposite ends. How and why we strayed so far from the middle would be an ugly debate for sure and lots of blaming etc, fact is things are too far left.
vortex86
Posts: 571
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9/21/2016 12:35:58 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
America is facing a problem that till now has really been ignored, Division. We can't see eye to eye with anyone about anything, which is normal I admit, however the major problem is we are too ego driven. We have an idea and say so, but when someone says something that contradicts that idea you have their wrong. That people is the problem. The United States of America has never really been united, and accepting in any way at all. America needs a sense of unity, not this egotistical way of life that has stopped our country from being what we label our self as. Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world. Peace is a goal driven by hope of a better world, there is no peace here in the "United" States.

Well, 'good' is subjective and people have varying opinions on what positive steps are for the country. In an effort to obtain said goals if they are in opposition to someone else's belief of what is good this is where the issue lies. I would say there are better ways of discourse for sure, but sometime people are able to carry on conversation and that is what is necessary to bridge the gap. It's a real shame the only time we come together is in response to a major tragic event.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/21/2016 12:38:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world.
You are blinded by ideology if you can't see that "working together" means the same as yielding one's own political goals. And why should one do that if victory is within reach? (Politics, unlike economics, is a zero-sum game.)

As Henry Adams put it, "politics is the systematic organization of hatreds." As such, animosity is inherent in the process. All we can hope for is that America's political institutions are strong enough not to crumble, at which point the animosity leads us to revert to disorganized and primitive violence.
Plutarch
Posts: 2
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9/21/2016 12:52:50 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:38:49 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world.
You are blinded by ideology if you can't see that "working together" means the same as yielding one's own political goals. And why should one do that if victory is within reach? (Politics, unlike economics, is a zero-sum game.)

As Henry Adams put it, "politics is the systematic organization of hatreds." As such, animosity is inherent in the process. All we can hope for is that America's political institutions are strong enough not to crumble, at which point the animosity leads us to revert to disorganized and primitive violence.

Shouldn't they be fighting for the people no matter what? So why would their be a victory in the first place
kevin24018
Posts: 1,894
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9/21/2016 1:17:08 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:40:33 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 12:29:09 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
fact is things are too far left.

https://www.politicalcompass.org...

In what way are you referring to?

since most consider left synonymous with liberal, the constant social programs, eroding of our rights (or attempts to do so) etc is what I was talking about
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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9/21/2016 1:22:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
America is facing a problem that till now has really been ignored, Division. We can't see eye to eye with anyone about anything, which is normal I admit, however the major problem is we are too ego driven. We have an idea and say so, but when someone says something that contradicts that idea you have their wrong. That people is the problem. The United States of America has never really been united, and accepting in any way at all. America needs a sense of unity, not this egotistical way of life that has stopped our country from being what we label our self as. Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world. Peace is a goal driven by hope of a better world, there is no peace here in the "United" States.

Hence the reason why we vote, and then peacefully honor the results even if we disagree with them, at least until the next voting cycle.

The sentiment presented in your post I find a bit exaggerated.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

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kevin24018
Posts: 1,894
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9/21/2016 1:22:36 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:52:50 PM, Plutarch wrote:
At 9/21/2016 12:38:49 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world.
You are blinded by ideology if you can't see that "working together" means the same as yielding one's own political goals. And why should one do that if victory is within reach? (Politics, unlike economics, is a zero-sum game.)

As Henry Adams put it, "politics is the systematic organization of hatreds." As such, animosity is inherent in the process. All we can hope for is that America's political institutions are strong enough not to crumble, at which point the animosity leads us to revert to disorganized and primitive violence.

Shouldn't they be fighting for the people no matter what? So why would their be a victory in the first place

if people only did what they should....but he summed it up pretty well, keep in mind these people are very wealthy and only they could change that, so if the economy takes a dive, taxes go way up, the right to self protection goes away, it won't affect them much at all, if you are worth 30 million and these things now make you only worth 25 million do you feel sorry for them? they can still afford their armed security right?
in short what can't be agreed on is if it is better to feed a man or teach him how to fish.
NHN
Posts: 624
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9/21/2016 1:27:49 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:52:50 PM, Plutarch wrote:
Shouldn't they be fighting for the people no matter what? So why would their be a victory in the first place
What's this "for the people" nonsense? It's not that it is too idealistic for my taste, but rather too ambiguous. The very notion of "the people" is just too close to either the Germanic myth of the Volk or the Marxist proletariat. In the last analysis, that uniformity is feigned.

In a constitutional republic, however, the citizens determine the struggle under the organization of hatreds/parties.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,316
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9/21/2016 5:44:37 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 1:27:49 PM, NHN wrote:
In a constitutional republic, however, the citizens determine the struggle under the organization of hatreds/parties.

Universal participation is the only thing that will right the wrongs.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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NHN
Posts: 624
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9/21/2016 5:59:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 5:44:37 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/21/2016 1:27:49 PM, NHN wrote:
In a constitutional republic, however, the citizens determine the struggle under the organization of hatreds/parties.
Universal participation is the only thing that will right the wrongs.
Absolutely not. Universal participation is a terrible, authoritarian idea.

And I find it strange that a conservative would seek to "right the wrongs" in such a way. Government, as the laws, are imperfectible. That's why negative liberties are the only protections we have against an invasive government, especially one that has the mandate of a "universally participating" electorate.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,316
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9/21/2016 10:29:26 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 5:59:56 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 5:44:37 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/21/2016 1:27:49 PM, NHN wrote:
In a constitutional republic, however, the citizens determine the struggle under the organization of hatreds/parties.
Universal participation is the only thing that will right the wrongs.
Absolutely not. Universal participation is a terrible, authoritarian idea.

And I find it strange that a conservative would seek to "right the wrongs" in such a way. Government, as the laws, are imperfectible. That's why negative liberties are the only protections we have against an invasive government, especially one that has the mandate of a "universally participating" electorate.

Lol, the sarcasm went right over your head. My bad, I should have been less convincing :P

No, I don't like universal participation, I was only joking. :)
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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9/22/2016 10:22:20 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
America is facing a problem that till now has really been ignored, Division. We can't see eye to eye with anyone about anything, which is normal I admit, however the major problem is we are too ego driven. We have an idea and say so, but when someone says something that contradicts that idea you have their wrong. That people is the problem. The United States of America has never really been united, and accepting in any way at all. America needs a sense of unity, not this egotistical way of life that has stopped our country from being what we label our self as. Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world. Peace is a goal driven by hope of a better world, there is no peace here in the "United" States.

The problem is that the people that actually want change and have good ideas are sitting on "sites" (the background) while the ones looking out for their interests are the loudest.

It's like i tell some of my friends that ask me how some of the people i know are so rich or doing so good. Well, narcissistic people aren't afraid of failing as much as the former. You get a guy/girl that only cares about amassing wealth for themselves and family. They don't care who they step over or hurt in the long run. Our country is ran by a bunch of narcissists. Not all, but i would bet a lot.

How can we fix this? Idk, but i always look at communities in gaming and how well they run. It is like a miniature simulation of society. Well, when a gamer hurts the team or trolls, they get voted out. It is because everyone is passionate about the end game and don't won't someone that is a detriment. Yet, it works instantly. So... i think people need to be more involved in life, the good people need to be more involved in life... we just need to make a platform where they can be heard.

What i have noticed on comments is that most the time people like comments that are logical to the situation. However, you see the situation being handled much differently than what is portrayed through the people. Why? Money and greed. We can sit here all day and debate about having more regulation for guns... that people with a violent past shouldn't get a gun so easy... but we would just be talking while the people looking out for their pockets are out there making sure it doesn't happen... they are more passionate about their greed and actually involve themselves in the process of keeping their greed.

I feel some kind of majority vote or rule element should be implemented. Maybe as easy as a thumbs up and down platform like Youtube. If a person keeps getting thumbs downs... they should be fired, look for another job... idk, something like that where the majority could be involved and heard instantaneously.

And... being able to break some rules if the majority want it broken. Like the president nominees right now... Yeah, they won primaries, but now that they are becoming more transparent in the public eye... they are not favored over some others that we finally favor. If that is the case, why in the world are we still sticking with them... it should be hold up, break the rules and we want a do over... whatever, timelines will be messed up, and the current president may live another few days... but, i am not happy with what i see, so lets do X...

It is a country ran by the people right? This country and the idea i love about it is that we are free... we are free to do what we want as long as it is supportive to our society. Yet, are freedom is buried under ignorance and a lack of passion. Where the people that care most about them self strive... so, what do you get? A country ran by people that don't care about the majority and have power to find loop holes to benefit them when they have all the poker chips... and, we don't have the power, when we see them for what they are, to kick them off the table for cheating. Somehow, we need that power as a society... how can it be implemented? ... i have no clue.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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9/23/2016 3:04:31 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/21/2016 12:21:04 PM, Plutarch wrote:
America is facing a problem that till now has really been ignored, Division. We can't see eye to eye with anyone about anything, which is normal I admit, however the major problem is we are too ego driven. We have an idea and say so, but when someone says something that contradicts that idea you have their wrong. That people is the problem. The United States of America has never really been united, and accepting in any way at all. America needs a sense of unity, not this egotistical way of life that has stopped our country from being what we label our self as. Why do differences in political ideals, create such a vortex of hatred and accusations, instead of working together, not just for the good of the country but of the world. Peace is a goal driven by hope of a better world, there is no peace here in the "United" States.

It's hard to meet in the middle with a group that predominantly hates the flags, the majprity, themselves, and America but loves anything and anyone anti-American. Jimmy Certeresque liberals are vanishing and being replaced by mindless, self entitled cowards who block highways, attack random cops, take over rallies, gwt violent with any excuse, then always take the side of the crook.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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