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Obama: Israel cannot continue occupation

1harderthanyouthink
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9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?
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Vox_Veritas
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9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
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NHN
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9/21/2016 8:27:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly. [bla bla bla]
Thoughts on that?
Well, the General Assembly is where speeches go to die.

And Obama is apparently doing what he can to flaunt his impotence during the dying days of his presidency.
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kevin24018
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9/21/2016 8:27:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
When will we run out of foreign affairs to meddle in? Do we have a dog in this fight? A solution of Solomon would be appropriate, or we just irradiate the whole area and in 10k years, who ever gets there first, gets to claim it.
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brontoraptor
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9/21/2016 8:29:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

Convince me this guy isn't a Muslim.
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brontoraptor
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9/21/2016 8:37:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Bronto debate #1

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The mysterious hollow eyed being that commands Obama in his dreams-

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The final mistake-

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NHN
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9/21/2016 8:40:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Moron. Israel cleared out of Gaza over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org...).
I am fascinated by the idea that our civilization is like a thin layer of ice upon a deep ocean of chaos and darkness.
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Vox_Veritas
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9/21/2016 9:03:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:40:51 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Moron. Israel cleared out of Gaza over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org...).

It's troll-hunting season. Shouldn't you be hiding underneath a bridge somewhere?
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slo1
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9/21/2016 9:03:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

Somewhat a mute point in that we just approved 3.8 Billion annual aid to Israel for the next 10 years and every vote in General Assembly to denounce West Bank settlements we voted pro Israel.

Israel has moved very far right and we are their enabler.
slo1
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9/21/2016 9:05:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:03:36 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

Somewhat a mute point in that we just approved 3.8 Billion annual aid to Israel for the next 10 years and every vote in General Assembly to denounce West Bank settlements we voted pro Israel.

Israel has moved very far right and we are their enabler.

I should have mentioned the only anti Israel policy that the right is considering is joining Russia and Assad to defeat ISIS. Keeping Assad in power is most definitely anti Israel.
NHN
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9/21/2016 9:13:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:03:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:40:51 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Moron. Israel cleared out of Gaza over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org...).
It's troll-hunting season. Shouldn't you be hiding underneath a bridge somewhere?
LOL.

Trying to save yourself from yet another stupidity.
I am fascinated by the idea that our civilization is like a thin layer of ice upon a deep ocean of chaos and darkness.
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,251
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9/21/2016 9:20:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:13:57 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:03:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:40:51 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Moron. Israel cleared out of Gaza over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org...).
It's troll-hunting season. Shouldn't you be hiding underneath a bridge somewhere?
LOL.

Trying to save yourself from yet another stupidity.

Go away.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Stymie13
Posts: 3,119
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9/21/2016 9:21:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
There is no solution especially with continual meddling but the entire world. While I sport Israel, it is time they stand without our aid. I don't support the Palestinians but they haven't made a very strong case for themselves.

Sit back, with popcorn or a low card high fat nut and watch the fireworks. The rest is just trivialities and opinions,
NHN
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9/21/2016 9:28:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:20:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:13:57 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:03:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:40:51 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Moron. Israel cleared out of Gaza over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org...).
It's troll-hunting season. Shouldn't you be hiding underneath a bridge somewhere?
LOL.

Trying to save yourself from yet another stupidity.
Go away.
Make me.

Or, you could try not to post stupid and/or misinformed nonsense.
I am fascinated by the idea that our civilization is like a thin layer of ice upon a deep ocean of chaos and darkness.
--Werner Herzog
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,251
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9/21/2016 9:32:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:28:46 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:20:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:13:57 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 9:03:11 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:40:51 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:23:08 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Israel should stop all settlements in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Moron. Israel cleared out of Gaza over a decade ago (https://en.wikipedia.org...).
It's troll-hunting season. Shouldn't you be hiding underneath a bridge somewhere?
LOL.

Trying to save yourself from yet another stupidity.
Go away.
Make me.

Or, you could try not to post stupid and/or misinformed nonsense.

Go away.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
YYW
Posts: 41,729
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9/21/2016 9:40:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

It's a meaningless gesture.
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Stymie13
Posts: 3,119
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9/21/2016 10:35:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:40:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

It's a meaningless gesture.

Pretty much everything he says to the UN in meaningless.
xus00HAY
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9/22/2016 12:44:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land

All of Israel is land that has been claimed by Palestine. They have been fighting over this land for thousands of years. The Jews own it now and have owned it at various other times in the past, when Arabs did not have it. It goes back and forth. Muslims believe Allah made this land for them, and someday they may get it back. Obama learned this in Muslim school when he lived in donesia. Obama may be Christian now, but was he always?
Bennett91
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9/22/2016 12:51:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

Thanks for the money goyem, we sure wont use it to hold on to any settlements! - Israel (http://fortune.com...)
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UtherPenguin
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9/22/2016 1:24:51 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:29:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

Convince me this guy isn't a Muslim.

Obama nonchalantly swearing on the Bible.
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BrendanD19
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9/22/2016 2:42:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

I would be more inclined to believe this if he hadn't done this literally the week before.
Http://www.reuters.com...
BrendanD19
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9/22/2016 2:43:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 8:32:55 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Agreed.

Israel needs to stay out of Palestine, and they can handle themselves without American aid and support.

I don't think Obama agrees
http://www.reuters.com...
BrendanD19
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9/22/2016 2:45:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/21/2016 9:40:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

It's a meaningless gesture.

This says far more about Obama's view of the situation
http://www.reuters.com...
BrendanD19
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9/22/2016 2:49:13 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/22/2016 12:51:20 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:12:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Obama said this in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

And what is true in the Middle East is true for all of us. Surely, religious traditions can be honored and upheld while teaching young people science and math, rather than intolerance. Surely, we can sustain our unique traditions while giving women their full and rightful role in the politics and economics of a nation. Surely, we can rally our nations to solidarity while recognizing equal treatment for all communities - whether it's a religious minority in Myanmar, or an ethnic minority in Burundi, or a racial minority right here in the United States. And surely, Israelis and Palestinians will be better off if Palestinians reject incitement and recognize the legitimacy of Israel, but Israel recognizes that it cannot permanently occupy and settle Palestinian land. We all have to do better as leaders in tamping down, rather than encouraging, a notion of identity that leads us to diminish others.

Thoughts on that?

Thanks for the money goyem, we sure wont use it to hold on to any settlements! - Israel (http://fortune.com...)

+1
triangle.128k
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9/22/2016 3:10:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/22/2016 2:43:29 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:32:55 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Agreed.

Israel needs to stay out of Palestine, and they can handle themselves without American aid and support.

I don't think Obama agrees
http://www.reuters.com...

So he criticizes Israel for their behavior, then goes back to shilling to them... Wonderful.
Bennett91
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9/22/2016 5:00:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/22/2016 3:10:29 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/22/2016 2:43:29 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:32:55 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Agreed.

Israel needs to stay out of Palestine, and they can handle themselves without American aid and support.

I don't think Obama agrees
http://www.reuters.com...

So he criticizes Israel for their behavior, then goes back to shilling to them... Wonderful.

That's pretty much what every President has done for Israel, and the next one won't be any different.
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BrendanD19
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9/22/2016 4:57:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/22/2016 5:00:41 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/22/2016 3:10:29 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/22/2016 2:43:29 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 9/21/2016 8:32:55 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Agreed.

Israel needs to stay out of Palestine, and they can handle themselves without American aid and support.

I don't think Obama agrees
http://www.reuters.com...

So he criticizes Israel for their behavior, then goes back to shilling to them... Wonderful.

That's pretty much what every President has done for Israel, and the next one won't be any different.

www.debate.org/BrendanD19/photos/album/6309/42588/
NHN
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9/22/2016 9:34:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/22/2016 4:57:49 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 9/22/2016 5:00:41 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
That's pretty much what every President has done for Israel, and the next one won't be any different.
www.debate.org/BrendanD19/photos/album/6309/42588/
America has not supported Israel from day one. The Six-Day War of 1967 was the crucial turning point, with Lyndon Johnson directing the pivot to Israel. Before then, U.S. interests had been either neutral or pro-Arab, as in the Suez Crisis of 1956.

But then again, maybe you're more interested in bashing Israel than in discussing the history of American foreign policy or the necessities of strategy.
I am fascinated by the idea that our civilization is like a thin layer of ice upon a deep ocean of chaos and darkness.
--Werner Herzog
BrendanD19
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9/23/2016 1:45:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 9/22/2016 9:34:29 PM, NHN wrote:
At 9/22/2016 4:57:49 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 9/22/2016 5:00:41 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
That's pretty much what every President has done for Israel, and the next one won't be any different.
www.debate.org/BrendanD19/photos/album/6309/42588/
America has not supported Israel from day one. The Six-Day War of 1967 was the crucial turning point, with Lyndon Johnson directing the pivot to Israel. Before then, U.S. interests had been either neutral or pro-Arab, as in the Suez Crisis of 1956.

But then again, maybe you're more interested in bashing Israel than in discussing the history of American foreign policy or the necessities of strategy.

It is true what you say in regards to the six day war, although I would argue that we were never really pro Arab, as the arab states tended to favor nonalignment during the Cold War.