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Saluting the Flag during the Anthem....

Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).
kevin24018
Posts: 1,916
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9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,916
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9/28/2016 1:20:16 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.

you don't even need to be in the military, people get disciplined for being late to work, all sorts of things, I'm sure you didn't play the victim, owned up to it and let it go.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 1:59:14 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:20:16 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.

you don't even need to be in the military, people get disciplined for being late to work, all sorts of things, I'm sure you didn't play the victim, owned up to it and let it go.

I called the aclu, the freedom from religion, delta phi sorority, and peta to save me... Didn't work. I was sad.... But I did start following ucmj.

The actual article says in uniform, face flag (or music if flags not visible) and salute. Not in uniform, stand at attention with hand over heart.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,393
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9/28/2016 2:05:19 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
When he does that, all the private citizens in the crowd should scream "Salute the ****ing flag! you stupid.... and then use the N word ,that might change his mind.
vortex86
Posts: 571
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9/28/2016 3:34:24 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

This is the 2nd recent issue along these lines. I'd say stop giving it media attention. If they get no attention and some sort of punishment then it isn't worth mentioning.

According to the militarytimes, "Ervin said she lost her security clearance and was threatened with jail by the Navy in response to her actions."

I'm okay with this.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 4:05:35 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 3:34:24 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

This is the 2nd recent issue along these lines. I'd say stop giving it media attention. If they get no attention and some sort of punishment then it isn't worth mentioning.

According to the militarytimes, "Ervin said she lost her security clearance and was threatened with jail by the Navy in response to her actions."

I'm okay with this.

You know I actually agree with your take on media attention driving copy cat actions. But media sells ad time by viewership/distribution and they know controversary sells... Even if the controversary is contrived.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,916
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9/28/2016 4:08:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 4:05:35 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 3:34:24 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

This is the 2nd recent issue along these lines. I'd say stop giving it media attention. If they get no attention and some sort of punishment then it isn't worth mentioning.

According to the militarytimes, "Ervin said she lost her security clearance and was threatened with jail by the Navy in response to her actions."

I'm okay with this.

You know I actually agree with your take on media attention driving copy cat actions. But media sells ad time by viewership/distribution and they know controversary sells... Even if the controversary is contrived.

it's no longer news, but media entertainment, like when mtv use to play music videos
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/28/2016 4:08:18 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

I agree. When you are in the military you are under a unique set of rules that govern public and private decorum, and that is a good thing.

This current kerfuffle is the flag burning of the 90's. The right likes to get twisted into knots over this stuff, but there never was a problem in the first damn place, there is no problem now. Stand, don't stand, none of my f**king business. But.... If you are a Marine and decide to bonfire a flag, or not stand, well then... Get ready to get your a$$ stomped by whomever is in charge of a$$ stomping in your COC.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,916
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9/28/2016 4:18:47 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 4:08:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

I agree. When you are in the military you are under a unique set of rules that govern public and private decorum, and that is a good thing.

This current kerfuffle is the flag burning of the 90's. The right likes to get twisted into knots over this stuff, but there never was a problem in the first damn place, there is no problem now. Stand, don't stand, none of my f**king business. But.... If you are a Marine and decide to bonfire a flag, or not stand, well then... Get ready to get your a$$ stomped by whomever is in charge of a$$ stomping in your COC.

is it in the NBA contracts too? seems there was some pro sport organisation that had it in their contracts, if the future you may see this added to the contracts or policies of various jobs and organisations. oh the interesting times we live in.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/28/2016 4:22:16 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 4:18:47 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 4:08:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

I agree. When you are in the military you are under a unique set of rules that govern public and private decorum, and that is a good thing.

This current kerfuffle is the flag burning of the 90's. The right likes to get twisted into knots over this stuff, but there never was a problem in the first damn place, there is no problem now. Stand, don't stand, none of my f**king business. But.... If you are a Marine and decide to bonfire a flag, or not stand, well then... Get ready to get your a$$ stomped by whomever is in charge of a$$ stomping in your COC.

is it in the NBA contracts too?
Not that I am aware of.

I don't follow football, baseball or basketball, so these things are very low of my care meter regardless. If they DO write it into contracts, OK fine. If not, well then, let the guy sit, stand, take a sh1t, I don't care one bit.

seems there was some pro sport organisation that had it in their contracts, if the future you may see this added to the contracts or policies of various jobs and organisations. oh the interesting times we live in.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,916
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9/28/2016 4:26:15 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 4:22:16 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/28/2016 4:18:47 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 4:08:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

I agree. When you are in the military you are under a unique set of rules that govern public and private decorum, and that is a good thing.

This current kerfuffle is the flag burning of the 90's. The right likes to get twisted into knots over this stuff, but there never was a problem in the first damn place, there is no problem now. Stand, don't stand, none of my f**king business. But.... If you are a Marine and decide to bonfire a flag, or not stand, well then... Get ready to get your a$$ stomped by whomever is in charge of a$$ stomping in your COC.

is it in the NBA contracts too?
Not that I am aware of.

I don't follow football, baseball or basketball, so these things are very low of my care meter regardless. If they DO write it into contracts, OK fine. If not, well then, let the guy sit, stand, take a sh1t, I don't care one bit.

right just thinking going forward
Unlike NFL, the NBA has a rule that players must stand during playing of national anthem
http://www.nola.com...
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 4:44:07 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 4:18:47 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 4:08:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

I agree. When you are in the military you are under a unique set of rules that govern public and private decorum, and that is a good thing.

This current kerfuffle is the flag burning of the 90's. The right likes to get twisted into knots over this stuff, but there never was a problem in the first damn place, there is no problem now. Stand, don't stand, none of my f**king business. But.... If you are a Marine and decide to bonfire a flag, or not stand, well then... Get ready to get your a$$ stomped by whomever is in charge of a$$ stomping in your COC.

is it in the NBA contracts too? seems there was some pro sport organisation that had it in their contracts, if the future you may see this added to the contracts or policies of various jobs and organisations. oh the interesting times we live in.

Personally if someone wants to do backflips, it's three choice. Couple of thoughts:

What I like are the dbag writers/columnists/pundits who think their opinion is somehow 'profound'. Stfu
The Internet intelligentistia who will proceed to lecture us all... From their moms basement with a masters in baroque poetry. Stfu
Self hating crackers who think they are black panther jihadis (Adam gadahn) stfu
And of course 'professors' who will educate us on the history of protest and free speech. Stfu

Or... Suck my schweaty...
TheFlex
Posts: 1,745
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9/28/2016 5:39:44 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.

The reason her punishment was more severe was because she made a political statement while in uniform. A yuge no-no
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 5:43:45 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 5:39:44 PM, TheFlex wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.

The reason her punishment was more severe was because she made a political statement while in uniform. A yuge no-no

Yes, this i know. I was just walking to get dinner... oversight but no statement.

I was actually hoping some would defend her action based off the Constitution showing their ignorance.

Technically, unless there has been an update, she hasn't been disciplined yet. Its up to her Commander.

http://www.ucmj.us...
TheFlex
Posts: 1,745
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9/28/2016 5:45:57 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 5:43:45 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 5:39:44 PM, TheFlex wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.

The reason her punishment was more severe was because she made a political statement while in uniform. A yuge no-no

Yes, this i know. I was just walking to get dinner... oversight but no statement.

I was actually hoping some would defend her action based off the Constitution showing their ignorance.

Technically, unless there has been an update, she hasn't been disciplined yet. Its up to her Commander.


http://www.ucmj.us...

If the commander was smart he'd ensure her a quick exit from the military.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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9/28/2016 5:49:38 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/28/2016 5:45:57 PM, TheFlex wrote:
At 9/28/2016 5:43:45 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 5:39:44 PM, TheFlex wrote:
At 9/28/2016 1:11:59 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 12:57:18 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 9/28/2016 11:19:24 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Much trickier than Kaepernick. He's a private citizen and all are afforded the B.O.R.

HOWEVER.... the military is quite the opposite. When you sign up, you are governed under the UCMJ. This specifically cites UCMJ article 92. I wonder if the commander is going to discipline (in my opinion it should be minor but yes, an administrative discipline of some sort is warranted):

http://www.foxnews.com...

Private citizens, do what you like. No issues in expressing your love, or disgust, of this country. But military members, not so much (and I am prior and I did get in trouble for not stopping during the anthem in tech school and I was disciplined).

yep don't sign on the dotted line if you can't fulfill your contract and don't cry or be surprised when you get in trouble for not doing what you agreed to.

My discipline was minor: base restriction for 2 weekends, a royal azz chewing, and no gym for 2 weeks.

The reason her punishment was more severe was because she made a political statement while in uniform. A yuge no-no

Yes, this i know. I was just walking to get dinner... oversight but no statement.

I was actually hoping some would defend her action based off the Constitution showing their ignorance.

Technically, unless there has been an update, she hasn't been disciplined yet. Its up to her Commander.


http://www.ucmj.us...

If the commander was smart he'd ensure her a quick exit from the military.

She probably joined for school money, got to school, got indoctrinated by academia that 'Merica is bad, mmkay'... saw Kap's protest and decided it was a good thing... not so much.

That leaves me conflicted: one part says keep her in just to rub it in since she's obviously developed a resentment. Part says separation to stop the benefits one gets from being part of the military (tuition assistance, GI Bill... oh, and for those that say the GI Bill is a return on investment from money taken: not when you are a guard member. You don't contribute. Active duty does, Guard and Reserve do not).