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Pence ate the bait

brontoraptor
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10/6/2016 4:02:47 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 3:31:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
Calculated

http://www.debate.org...

https://www.youtube.com...

It looks like Obama and Hillary are trying to eat their crooked arms deal with Libya. They are eggs right now. Scrambling.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skepsikyma
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10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 3:31:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
Calculated

http://www.debate.org...

https://www.youtube.com...

This is retarded. They said 'strong leader'. That's what Pence said in the debate. All of these cut-up compilations are little more than propaganda meant to appeal to those who are too lazy on a civic level to watch the debate.

'When Donald Trump and I observe that, as I've said in Syria, in Iran, in Ukraine, that the small and bullying leader of Russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that's stating painful facts. That's not an endorsement of Vladimir Putin. That's an indictment of the weak and feckless leadership...

QUIJANO: Senator Kaine?

PENCE: ... of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

KAINE: Well, this is one where we can just kind of go to the tape on it. But Governor Pence said, inarguably, Vladimir Putin is a better leader than President Obama.

PENCE: That is absolutely inaccurate.

KAINE: And -- and -- and I just think a guy who praises...

PENCE: He said he's stronger -- he's been stronger on the world stage.'
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

So the sophomoric slice-and-dice video actually proves Pence's point every time that they show them saying 'stronger', and the people who lap this propaganda up like mother's milk are too misinformed to even realize it!

On Ukraine, following that statement Trump immediately clarified that he was talking about an 'if I were president situation', not a just describing the current situation.

'OK -- well, he's there in a certain way. But I'm not there. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this. In the meantime, he's going away. He takes Crimea.'
http://www.cnn.com...

On the 'deportation force', it's just plainly obvious from the quote that they chose. Having a 'deportation force' does not mean that you're going to go around kicking down doors and shipping people out, as Kaine characterized it. Trump already went over his plan in his large speech, and it includes fail-safes to remove anyone who is pulled over by the police and e-verify. No Gestapo.

Clearly he understands the conflict, and was misunderstood (I'm being very charitable to a Clinton surrogate here) by Stephanopoulos.

The clip on abortion, as always, cuts out the context entirely. The entire segment was basically Trump showing that he hasn't thought very much about the issue, claiming that there has to be some sort of punishment for abortion if it's illegal (no sh!t, sherlock), but repeatedly saying over and over again that he doesn't have any idea what it is. One flustered sound bite has been take out of context for months now, even when a policy paper has been released outlining Trump's position. Frankly, I think that it's obviously a position he just doesn't care about when we have much bigger fish to fry.

'TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What?

TRUMP: I don't know. That I don't know. That I don't know.

MATTHEWS: Why not?

TRUMP: I don't know.

MATTHEWS: You take positions on everything else.

TRUMP: Because I don't want to -- I frankly, I do take positions on everything else. It's a very complicated position.'
http://www.politifact.com...

And the nuclear proliferation one is the worst. Literally RIGHT AFTER HE SAID THE THING ABOUT SAUDI ARABIA.

'COOPER: Saudi Arabia, nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: Saudi Arabia, absolutely.

COOPER: You would be fine with them having nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: No, not nuclear weapons, but they have to protect themselves or they have to pay us.'
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com...

And the issue about Japan and North Korea having nuclear weapons isn't out there or anything. Why does Pakistan have nuclear weapons? Because they are in conflict with India, and the Indian nuclear program drove the country to feverishly seek those weapons because a war between a nuclear armed country and a non-nuclear armed country is completely asymmetrical. If North Korea gains first strike capability, it is absolutely essential for likely targets to have the potential to reciprocate. If we are stepping in for Japan and saying that we will retaliate with our nukes if Japan or South Korea are struck, then that makes US bases in the region a potential first strike target and ties the second-largest nuclear arsenal into the world into the retaliatory second strike. It's better for everyone involved if we aren't involved in the situation, if all counterbalancing as far as MAD is concerned is handled locally, especially if a weapons-sharing system like that used by NATO is incorporated.

Overall, typical shallow propaganda spoon-fed to people who don't care enough about their civic duty to actually watch what the candidates are saying.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Mikal
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10/6/2016 4:51:49 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's exactly the point. If people took enough time to actually study policy and look at what the candidates are proposing Trump would not even be running at this stage. They used Kaine to bait responses from Pence and set up Trump and Himself for "contradicitions". They are playing Trumps game and pandering to the left

It will be effective because they are spoon feeding it to minorities and a populace that will never check either side for facts. Trump is the walking talking manifestation of resentment toward establishment politics. Any career politician in the GOP could have got elected if they opposed the system and challenged common political rhetoric like Trump did. Trump is just a catalyst for the public to show their hate for the current system.

I'm sure the Clinton camp knows this is and is using the opposite side of the spectrum to pander to votes. It's a great idea to siphon votes from millennials and independent voters.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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10/6/2016 5:05:41 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:51:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's exactly the point. If people took enough time to actually study policy and look at what the candidates are proposing Trump would not even be running at this stage. They used Kaine to bait responses from Pence and set up Trump and Himself for "contradicitions". They are playing Trumps game and pandering to the left

It will be effective because they are spoon feeding it to minorities and a populace that will never check either side for facts. Trump is the walking talking manifestation of resentment toward establishment politics. Any career politician in the GOP could have got elected if they opposed the system and challenged common political rhetoric like Trump did. Trump is just a catalyst for the public to show their hate for the current system.

I think that's absurd. People like Trump because of his policies. I mean, 'build the wall' was his mantra. That's policy. The Republicans wanted another round of Reagan-worship, tepid disagreement, and family comparing and Trump disrupted it all by forcing them to actually talk about policy. Despite him releasing ream after ream of policy proposal during the primary, the media continued to ply the same intellectually bereft 'trump is light on policy' line, and faux political commentators swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm sure the Clinton camp knows this is and is using the opposite side of the spectrum to pander to votes. It's a great idea to siphon votes from millennials and independent voters.

I think that they're severely overestimating how much young voters trust any media source.

http://www.gallup.com...

These sorts of videos are more tailored towards swaying older voters, in my mind. But even their trust is at historical lows.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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10/6/2016 5:13:56 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
I do agree that those supporting Trump are angry with the establishment and swallow hook line and sinker what ever Trump states as the cause for their woes. Demonizing a group of people or person as causal is an easy means of getting the intellectually lazy and knee jerk emotional on your side. Here we have a grown man with the speech patterns, vocabulary, and temperament of a spoiled brat 8th grader as a potential leader of the US.

Yes, the government has stopped working for its citizens for some time and Hillary represents more of the same, but Trump, his lies and ignorance will not bode well nor will he be effective if he reaches the White House. The house and the senate will only put up with his tomfoolery only if it can be molded to fit their aims, which will be more of the same, with pork and unrelated riders to bills written. Nothing new to see here folks other than a stream of circus events should he be elected.

http://thehill.com...

http://www.pbs.org...
Mikal
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10/6/2016 5:30:19 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:05:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:51:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's exactly the point. If people took enough time to actually study policy and look at what the candidates are proposing Trump would not even be running at this stage. They used Kaine to bait responses from Pence and set up Trump and Himself for "contradictions". They are playing Trumps game and pandering to the left

It will be effective because they are spoon feeding it to minorities and a populace that will never check either side for facts. Trump is the walking talking manifestation of resentment toward establishment politics. Any career politician in the GOP could have got elected if they opposed the system and challenged common political rhetoric like Trump did. Trump is just a catalyst for the public to show their hate for the current system.

I think that's absurd. People like Trump because of his policies. I mean, 'build the wall' was his mantra. That's policy. The Republicans wanted another round of Reagan-worship, tepid disagreement, and family comparing and Trump disrupted it all by forcing them to actually talk about policy. Despite him releasing ream after ream of policy proposal during the primary, the media continued to ply the same intellectually bereft 'trump is light on policy' line, and faux political commentators swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

I mean it depends on how you define policy. Just stating a random thing that can be attributed to policy is not necessarily understanding what policy is or how it works in practice. Trump is forcing them to talk about policy sure, but it's because he is spouting racist rhetoric that is engrained within the GOP. I'll concede he is forcing them to talk about it but he has no idea how he is going to implement it or make it work. Take a look at the wall example. He has cited around 10 different costs and each time it goes up exponentially. I mean the guy is running and he had no freaking idea what the nuclear triad was, and can't even pronounce or show where half the countries in the middle east are. He is a walking embodiment of hate. People are not voting for him because they like him, or because he is a good pick. They are voting for him because he tapped into vein of bias and racism that is right underneath the skin of the GOP


I'm sure the Clinton camp knows this is and is using the opposite side of the spectrum to pander to votes. It's a great idea to siphon votes from millennials and independent voters.

I think that they're severely overestimating how much young voters trust any media source.

http://www.gallup.com...

These sorts of videos are more tailored towards swaying older voters, in my mind. But even their trust is at historical lows.

Millennials naturally are going to lean left just because of the cultural shift toward the left over the past 10 to 20 years ( http://www.gallup.com... ). There is plenty of young voters who are on the fence because they hate Clinton. Being able to show that Trump is objectively a bigot and racist is enough to sway votes. That line of thought remains consistent for older voters as well, and as you said they pay way more attention to the media and news than younger voters. Even a majority of younger voters (especially in the bible belt) give two fuks about policy or actually diving deep enough into politics to understand the plans behind the rhetoric. The entire campaign for both sides is about defaming the other and the campaign that does the best job will come out ahead
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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10/6/2016 5:46:05 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:30:19 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 5:05:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:51:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's exactly the point. If people took enough time to actually study policy and look at what the candidates are proposing Trump would not even be running at this stage. They used Kaine to bait responses from Pence and set up Trump and Himself for "contradictions". They are playing Trumps game and pandering to the left

It will be effective because they are spoon feeding it to minorities and a populace that will never check either side for facts. Trump is the walking talking manifestation of resentment toward establishment politics. Any career politician in the GOP could have got elected if they opposed the system and challenged common political rhetoric like Trump did. Trump is just a catalyst for the public to show their hate for the current system.

I think that's absurd. People like Trump because of his policies. I mean, 'build the wall' was his mantra. That's policy. The Republicans wanted another round of Reagan-worship, tepid disagreement, and family comparing and Trump disrupted it all by forcing them to actually talk about policy. Despite him releasing ream after ream of policy proposal during the primary, the media continued to ply the same intellectually bereft 'trump is light on policy' line, and faux political commentators swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

I mean it depends on how you define policy. Just stating a random thing that can be attributed to policy is not necessarily understanding what policy is or how it works in practice. Trump is forcing them to talk about policy sure, but it's because he is spouting racist rhetoric that is engrained within the GOP. I'll concede he is forcing them to talk about it but he has no idea how he is going to implement it or make it work. Take a look at the wall example. He has cited around 10 different costs and each time it goes up exponentially. I mean the guy is running and he had no freaking idea what the nuclear triad was, and can't even pronounce or show where half the countries in the middle east are.

Have you read any of his policy papers?

He is a walking embodiment of hate. People are not voting for him because they like him, or because he is a good pick.

So are you saying that I'm a racist? Or that Thett is? Seventh and Bossy? Or is this a 'I can't be racist, I have a black friend' argument where you hold to an unflattering general rule about a group of people, then insist that those that you personally know are 'exceptions?'

They are voting for him because he tapped into vein of bias and racism that is right underneath the skin of the GOP

That vein of racism runs through America in general and both political parties, not just the Republican Party. That's why black people's problems are never actually addressed by the Democrats when they have the power to do so, why nobody seems to care about the welfare of Mexico when we talk about border security, and why everyone on the left is fine with Hillary using a bunch of brown people in the Middle East as pawns in a game of geopolitical chess at which she is phenomenally inept.

I'm sure the Clinton camp knows this is and is using the opposite side of the spectrum to pander to votes. It's a great idea to siphon votes from millennials and independent voters.

I think that they're severely overestimating how much young voters trust any media source.

http://www.gallup.com...

These sorts of videos are more tailored towards swaying older voters, in my mind. But even their trust is at historical lows.

Millennials naturally are going to lean left just because of the cultural shift toward the left over the past 10 to 20 years ( http://www.gallup.com... ). There is plenty of young voters who are on the fence because they hate Clinton. Being able to show that Trump is objectively a bigot and racist is enough to sway votes.

Wait, so you believe that this add was misrepresentative and manipulative, but that it also reveals the 'truth' at the same time?

That line of thought remains consistent for older voters as well, and as you said they pay way more attention to the media and news than younger voters. Even a majority of younger voters (especially in the bible belt) give two fuks about policy or actually diving deep enough into politics to understand the plans behind the rhetoric. The entire campaign for both sides is about defaming the other and the campaign that does the best job will come out ahead

We'll see.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
thett3
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10/6/2016 5:53:37 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:46:05 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That vein of racism runs through America in general and both political parties, not just the Republican Party. That's why black people's problems are never actually addressed by the Democrats when they have the power to do so, why nobody seems to care about the welfare of Mexico when we talk about border security, and why everyone on the left is fine with Hillary using a bunch of brown people in the Middle East as pawns in a game of geopolitical chess at which she is phenomenally inept.

There is only one person who has truly mastered political chess: https://pbs.twimg.com...
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
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10/6/2016 6:00:34 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/6/2016 3:31:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
Calculated

http://www.debate.org...

https://www.youtube.com...

This is retarded. They said 'strong leader'. That's what Pence said in the debate. All of these cut-up compilations are little more than propaganda meant to appeal to those who are too lazy on a civic level to watch the debate.

'When Donald Trump and I observe that, as I've said in Syria, in Iran, in Ukraine, that the small and bullying leader of Russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that's stating painful facts. That's not an endorsement of Vladimir Putin. That's an indictment of the weak and feckless leadership...

QUIJANO: Senator Kaine?

PENCE: ... of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

KAINE: Well, this is one where we can just kind of go to the tape on it. But Governor Pence said, inarguably, Vladimir Putin is a better leader than President Obama.

PENCE: That is absolutely inaccurate.

KAINE: And -- and -- and I just think a guy who praises...

PENCE: He said he's stronger -- he's been stronger on the world stage.'
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

So the sophomoric slice-and-dice video actually proves Pence's point every time that they show them saying 'stronger', and the people who lap this propaganda up like mother's milk are too misinformed to even realize it!

On Ukraine, following that statement Trump immediately clarified that he was talking about an 'if I were president situation', not a just describing the current situation.

'OK -- well, he's there in a certain way. But I'm not there. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this. In the meantime, he's going away. He takes Crimea.'
http://www.cnn.com...

On the 'deportation force', it's just plainly obvious from the quote that they chose. Having a 'deportation force' does not mean that you're going to go around kicking down doors and shipping people out, as Kaine characterized it. Trump already went over his plan in his large speech, and it includes fail-safes to remove anyone who is pulled over by the police and e-verify. No Gestapo.

Clearly he understands the conflict, and was misunderstood (I'm being very charitable to a Clinton surrogate here) by Stephanopoulos.

The clip on abortion, as always, cuts out the context entirely. The entire segment was basically Trump showing that he hasn't thought very much about the issue, claiming that there has to be some sort of punishment for abortion if it's illegal (no sh!t, sherlock), but repeatedly saying over and over again that he doesn't have any idea what it is. One flustered sound bite has been take out of context for months now, even when a policy paper has been released outlining Trump's position. Frankly, I think that it's obviously a position he just doesn't care about when we have much bigger fish to fry.

'TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What?

TRUMP: I don't know. That I don't know. That I don't know.

MATTHEWS: Why not?

TRUMP: I don't know.

MATTHEWS: You take positions on everything else.

TRUMP: Because I don't want to -- I frankly, I do take positions on everything else. It's a very complicated position.'
http://www.politifact.com...

And the nuclear proliferation one is the worst. Literally RIGHT AFTER HE SAID THE THING ABOUT SAUDI ARABIA.

'COOPER: Saudi Arabia, nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: Saudi Arabia, absolutely.

COOPER: You would be fine with them having nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: No, not nuclear weapons, but they have to protect themselves or they have to pay us.'
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com...

And the issue about Japan and North Korea having nuclear weapons isn't out there or anything. Why does Pakistan have nuclear weapons? Because they are in conflict with India, and the Indian nuclear program drove the country to feverishly seek those weapons because a war between a nuclear armed country and a non-nuclear armed country is completely asymmetrical. If North Korea gains first strike capability, it is absolutely essential for likely targets to have the potential to reciprocate. If we are stepping in for Japan and saying that we will retaliate with our nukes if Japan or South Korea are struck, then that makes US bases in the region a potential first strike target and ties the second-largest nuclear arsenal into the world into the retaliatory second strike. It's better for everyone involved if we aren't involved in the situation, if all counterbalancing as far as MAD is concerned is handled locally, especially if a weapons-sharing system like that used by NATO is incorporated.

Overall, typical shallow propaganda spoon-fed to people who don't care enough about their civic duty to actually watch what the candidates are saying.

Plus a million, well said.
RookieApologist
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10/6/2016 6:03:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:30:19 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 5:05:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:51:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's exactly the point. If people took enough time to actually study policy and look at what the candidates are proposing Trump would not even be running at this stage. They used Kaine to bait responses from Pence and set up Trump and Himself for "contradictions". They are playing Trumps game and pandering to the left

It will be effective because they are spoon feeding it to minorities and a populace that will never check either side for facts. Trump is the walking talking manifestation of resentment toward establishment politics. Any career politician in the GOP could have got elected if they opposed the system and challenged common political rhetoric like Trump did. Trump is just a catalyst for the public to show their hate for the current system.

I think that's absurd. People like Trump because of his policies. I mean, 'build the wall' was his mantra. That's policy. The Republicans wanted another round of Reagan-worship, tepid disagreement, and family comparing and Trump disrupted it all by forcing them to actually talk about policy. Despite him releasing ream after ream of policy proposal during the primary, the media continued to ply the same intellectually bereft 'trump is light on policy' line, and faux political commentators swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

I mean it depends on how you define policy. Just stating a random thing that can be attributed to policy is not necessarily understanding what policy is or how it works in practice. Trump is forcing them to talk about policy sure, but it's because he is spouting racist rhetoric that is engrained within the GOP. I'll concede he is forcing them to talk about it but he has no idea how he is going to implement it or make it work. Take a look at the wall example. He has cited around 10 different costs and each time it goes up exponentially. I mean the guy is running and he had no freaking idea what the nuclear triad was, and can't even pronounce or show where half the countries in the middle east are. He is a walking embodiment of hate. People are not voting for him because they like him, or because he is a good pick. They are voting for him because he tapped into vein of bias and racism that is right underneath the skin of the GOP

Well, actually I'll be voting for him because Hillary Clinton is a horrible, dishonest, incompetent person and candidate.



I'm sure the Clinton camp knows this is and is using the opposite side of the spectrum to pander to votes. It's a great idea to siphon votes from millennials and independent voters.

I think that they're severely overestimating how much young voters trust any media source.

http://www.gallup.com...

These sorts of videos are more tailored towards swaying older voters, in my mind. But even their trust is at historical lows.

Millennials naturally are going to lean left just because of the cultural shift toward the left over the past 10 to 20 years ( http://www.gallup.com... ). There is plenty of young voters who are on the fence because they hate Clinton. Being able to show that Trump is objectively a bigot and racist is enough to sway votes. That line of thought remains consistent for older voters as well, and as you said they pay way more attention to the media and news than younger voters. Even a majority of younger voters (especially in the bible belt) give two fuks about policy or actually diving deep enough into politics to understand the plans behind the rhetoric. The entire campaign for both sides is about defaming the other and the campaign that does the best job will come out ahead
Mikal
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10/6/2016 6:22:41 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:46:05 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/6/2016 5:30:19 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 5:05:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:51:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 10/6/2016 4:35:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

That's exactly the point. If people took enough time to actually study policy and look at what the candidates are proposing Trump would not even be running at this stage. They used Kaine to bait responses from Pence and set up Trump and Himself for "contradictions". They are playing Trumps game and pandering to the left

It will be effective because they are spoon feeding it to minorities and a populace that will never check either side for facts. Trump is the walking talking manifestation of resentment toward establishment politics. Any career politician in the GOP could have got elected if they opposed the system and challenged common political rhetoric like Trump did. Trump is just a catalyst for the public to show their hate for the current system.

I think that's absurd. People like Trump because of his policies. I mean, 'build the wall' was his mantra. That's policy. The Republicans wanted another round of Reagan-worship, tepid disagreement, and family comparing and Trump disrupted it all by forcing them to actually talk about policy. Despite him releasing ream after ream of policy proposal during the primary, the media continued to ply the same intellectually bereft 'trump is light on policy' line, and faux political commentators swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

I mean it depends on how you define policy. Just stating a random thing that can be attributed to policy is not necessarily understanding what policy is or how it works in practice. Trump is forcing them to talk about policy sure, but it's because he is spouting racist rhetoric that is engrained within the GOP. I'll concede he is forcing them to talk about it but he has no idea how he is going to implement it or make it work. Take a look at the wall example. He has cited around 10 different costs and each time it goes up exponentially. I mean the guy is running and he had no freaking idea what the nuclear triad was, and can't even pronounce or show where half the countries in the middle east are.

Have you read any of his policy papers?

God no, not enough to cite off details or specifics. I'm sure not many others have either other than his staff or career politicians. He is just saying whatever pops into his mind and his campaign and staff are left trying to figure out a way to make it politically viable. That's not saying he does not have policies on paper or that is camapign has not doctored what he said.

His original stance was "We are going to build a wall"

Question - How are you going to pay for it

Answer - Mexico is going to pay for it

Mexicos response "https://www.youtube.com...; "https://www.youtube.com...;

They are not paying for that fuking wall. So he is left trying to defend a position while making and make it look politically viable as possible.

He has no idea what he plans to say at points. He starts by saying (a) and while trying to defend (a) he says (b) not even knowing he plans to say (b). Then he has to defend (b) to the grave. That is his type of rhetoric and policies. It's stuff he spouts off his head.

There are so many examples. The Muslim ban, The deportation force, The Wall, Nuclear Profiliation, etc.

I don't even care enough to dive into what the papers say, if he has no idea what he is saying himself.

He is a walking embodiment of hate. People are not voting for him because they like him, or because he is a good pick.

So are you saying that I'm a racist? Or that Thett is? Seventh and Bossy? Or is this a 'I can't be racist, I have a black friend' argument where you hold to an unflattering general rule about a group of people, then insist that those that you personally know are 'exceptions?'

Not at all I'm saying all of you more than likely hate Clinton, and that Trump is seen as the alternative because he is breaking the mold. There are types of people who vote for him, just as there are types of people who vote for Clinton. Most for trump either tend to be racist, or people that want to "shake it up". I'm sure you fall under the last.

They are voting for him because he tapped into vein of bias and racism that is right underneath the skin of the GOP

That vein of racism runs through America in general and both political parties, not just the Republican Party. That's why black people's problems are never actually addressed by the Democrats when they have the power to do so, why nobody seems to care about the welfare of Mexico when we talk about border security, and why everyone on the left is fine with Hillary using a bunch of brown people in the Middle East as pawns in a game of geopolitical chess at which she is phenomenally inept.

Everyone has inherent bias, but Trump is making it a political staple in his campaign.

I'm sure the Clinton camp knows this is and is using the opposite side of the spectrum to pander to votes. It's a great idea to siphon votes from millennials and independent voters.

I think that they're severely overestimating how much young voters trust any media source.

http://www.gallup.com...

These sorts of videos are more tailored towards swaying older voters, in my mind. But even their trust is at historical lows.

Millennials naturally are going to lean left just because of the cultural shift toward the left over the past 10 to 20 years ( http://www.gallup.com... ). There is plenty of young voters who are on the fence because they hate Clinton. Being able to show that Trump is objectively a bigot and racist is enough to sway votes.

Wait, so you believe that this add was misrepresentative and manipulative, but that it also reveals the 'truth' at the same time?

I never said it was truthful or if I did I'm not aware of it, I said the goal was to defame trump which is his goal with Clinton. It's not a race about policies or politics. It's a defamation race geared to who can smear the others image the worst.

That line of thought remains consistent for older voters as well, and as you said they pay way more attention to the media and news than younger voters. Even a majority of younger voters (especially in the bible belt) give two fuks about policy or actually diving deep enough into politics to understand the plans behind the rhetoric. The entire campaign for both sides is about defaming the other and the campaign that does the best job will come out ahead

We'll see.
Mikal
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10/6/2016 6:38:48 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:46:05 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Also just for clarification, I am not a Clinton fan either. I think it boils down to a lesser of two evils choice. I have read her plans and I hate them, just not more than I hate Trump in general.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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10/6/2016 8:25:30 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 3:31:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
Calculated

http://www.debate.org...

https://www.youtube.com...

Bill Clinton ate a lot of things. Giggle.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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10/6/2016 8:28:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/6/2016 5:13:56 PM, Peepette wrote:
I do agree that those supporting Trump are angry with the establishment and swallow hook line and sinker what ever Trump states as the cause for their woes. Demonizing a group of people or person as causal is an easy means of getting the intellectually lazy and knee jerk emotional on your side. Here we have a grown man with the speech patterns, vocabulary, and temperament of a spoiled brat 8th grader as a potential leader of the US.

Yes, the government has stopped working for its citizens for some time and Hillary represents more of the same, but Trump, his lies and ignorance will not bode well nor will he be effective if he reaches the White House. The house and the senate will only put up with his tomfoolery only if it can be molded to fit their aims, which will be more of the same, with pork and unrelated riders to bills written. Nothing new to see here folks other than a stream of circus events should he be elected.

http://thehill.com...

http://www.pbs.org...

Grown up speak:
"Iredeemable basket of deplorables"
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...