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The moment Trump won the debate

TeaPatriot
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10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...
Chairman of Economic Forum Recovery
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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10/10/2016 12:48:51 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

+1
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...
TeaPatriot
Posts: 203
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10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls
Chairman of Economic Forum Recovery
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/10/2016 12:56:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls

All looking at the debate will tell me is what I think about it. Those first two polls were about the debate. I'd also ask how relevant the debate is if you don't think it will translate into improved polling...?
TeaPatriot
Posts: 203
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10/10/2016 12:58:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:56:04 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls

All looking at the debate will tell me is what I think about it. Those first two polls were about the debate. I'd also ask how relevant the debate is if you don't think it will translate into improved polling...?

Again, the scandal would hurt his numbers no matter what
Chairman of Economic Forum Recovery
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/10/2016 12:59:28 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:58:43 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:56:04 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls

All looking at the debate will tell me is what I think about it. Those first two polls were about the debate. I'd also ask how relevant the debate is if you don't think it will translate into improved polling...?

Again, the scandal would hurt his numbers no matter what

So you think him winning or losing the debate is irrelevant to the outcome of the election?
TeaPatriot
Posts: 203
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10/10/2016 1:01:39 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:59:28 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:58:43 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:56:04 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls

All looking at the debate will tell me is what I think about it. Those first two polls were about the debate. I'd also ask how relevant the debate is if you don't think it will translate into improved polling...?

Again, the scandal would hurt his numbers no matter what

So you think him winning or losing the debate is irrelevant to the outcome of the election?

No the scandal will definitely hurt him in the general

But I'm objectively talking about who won the debate, it was Trump
Chairman of Economic Forum Recovery
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/10/2016 1:06:44 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 1:01:39 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:59:28 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:58:43 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:56:04 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls

All looking at the debate will tell me is what I think about it. Those first two polls were about the debate. I'd also ask how relevant the debate is if you don't think it will translate into improved polling...?

Again, the scandal would hurt his numbers no matter what

So you think him winning or losing the debate is irrelevant to the outcome of the election?

No the scandal will definitely hurt him in the general

But I'm objectively talking about who won the debate, it was Trump

I don't think you know what 'objectively' means. Or do you have some standard to which you can point? Because as far as I can tell, debates are designed to sway the subjective opinions of the viewers. This means the only meaningful metric by which we could claim an 'objective' winner is the one who polls best amongst viewers after the debate has taken place. In which case, Clinton 'objectively won'.

Or you mean who you subjectively feel won the debate, in which case you're merely sharing your opinion.
NHN
Posts: 624
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10/10/2016 1:13:42 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...
Trump "won" the debate? In what universe?

Feel free to point out a forecast where Trump is the likely winner, or where the result of this debate has been in Trump's favor. For instance, the Princeton Election Consortium now puts Hillary's win probability at 95% (http://election.princeton.edu...).
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/10/2016 1:25:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:54:21 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

I don't really see how she won at all, Trump's poll numbers would be low anyway no matter what because of his lewd comments scandal. No matter what

Id suggest you look at the debate instead of polls

J suggest you do the same.

You are pointing to a "snappy" line - one amed at his base. Clinton had kt all on him for answers while he floundered without making even one Clear point.

Trump does not have to win you, he needs undecideds, and that did nothing to accomplish the goal.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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10/10/2016 1:34:29 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

The Truth matters, and what you just said indicates that people like you don't fully seem to appreciate the reality in which you live.

For it to be a knock out punch, what he said can't just appeal to the people who already vehemently support him, no matter how petulent, undisciplined, disorganized, incoherent, and vacuous he comes across; but it must sway the people who don't already support him.

In this respect, a great number of people, including a great many republicans view Trump as an undisciplined petulent child; and who while they do not like Hilary they do not necessarily think she is the fountain of all evil. These, independents and women are the people trump needed to win over, for that, he needed to be coherent, measured and thoughtful. He really wasn't, and only serves to feed the same narrative that people against Trump already feel.

So no, while such a response makes you feel better, you need to appreciate and understand that there are a good majority of people who don't feel the same way; and in many cases quite the opposite.
slo1
Posts: 4,314
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10/10/2016 1:43:34 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

It is rather an interesting group dynamic phenomenon going on here. My theory is that the extreme hatred for Hillary binds the group. It also has the effect putting red lenses glasses on chickens. They can't see the blood on the other chickens and thus won't peck a fellow chicken to death. In this case it is somewhat the opposite.

This extreme hatred triggers attention to the blows against Hillary, but the rudeness and whininess be seen.

Some may try to justify the rudeness as anti PC or the whininess as legitimate complaints, however those who don't have the same level of hate for Hiklary see it for what it is for.

For that segment of people who either like or have a low level of animosity towards Hillary they see Trump's attacks as an attempt to hide his short comings.

That is why I believe that Hillary wins in national poll on debate performance. It should be mentioned more Democrats watch debates than Republicans.

I really don't think that the debate change minds other than those who have a lower level of disdain for Hillary moved towards her.

There are going to be many disappointed people come election day. The Hillary haters lose and the people like me didn't get one quality candidate to vote for.

I almost hope Trump wins so we can have fantastic arguments why the next recession and deficit spending is his fault.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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10/10/2016 1:47:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Clinton attacked Trump for not having the Temperament to be President and that is was good that he was not in charge of the law. Trump proved Clinton's point with the comment that he would lock her up. Trump supporters will think Trump won any exchange when he says "lock her up", but this email scandal has already been a part of the news for a while. Everyone knows about it. What voters are wondering whether Trump has the temperament to be President.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/10/2016 1:51:28 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 1:47:55 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Clinton attacked Trump for not having the Temperament to be President and that is was good that he was not in charge of the law. Trump proved Clinton's point with the comment that he would lock her up. Trump supporters will think Trump won any exchange when he says "lock her up", but this email scandal has already been a part of the news for a while. Everyone knows about it. What voters are wondering whether Trump has the temperament to be President.

That was, honestly, his worst moment. Yea, his base will eat it up, but that is not what he needs. He needed to move undecideds. You don't move them by threatening your opponent like a tin pot dictator. I mean, really, he was alive during Nixon. Did he not watch TV? Did he not remember Nixions move to investigate his "enemies"?
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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10/10/2016 1:59:09 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 1:51:28 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/10/2016 1:47:55 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Clinton attacked Trump for not having the Temperament to be President and that is was good that he was not in charge of the law. Trump proved Clinton's point with the comment that he would lock her up. Trump supporters will think Trump won any exchange when he says "lock her up", but this email scandal has already been a part of the news for a while. Everyone knows about it. What voters are wondering whether Trump has the temperament to be President.

That was, honestly, his worst moment. Yea, his base will eat it up, but that is not what he needs. He needed to move undecideds. You don't move them by threatening your opponent like a tin pot dictator. I mean, really, he was alive during Nixon. Did he not watch TV? Did he not remember Nixions move to investigate his "enemies"?

I know. Trump rallied his ever shrinking base while alienating undecided voters. The undecided voter wants assurance that Trump has the temperament to do the job. When Trump threatens to lock up Clinton, and calls her the Devil, no undecided voter is looking at this as a positive. In fact, it just makes the whole Republican party look bad.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,463
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10/10/2016 2:11:39 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 1:01:39 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
...

No the scandal will definitely hurt him in the general


Eh, I don't know. I think that ship sailed when America re-elected Bill Clinton. America doesn't care if you're a sex addict, as long as you're "working hard for the American people". The conventional wisdom was that republicans can't get away with being perverts, but Trump isn't really a republican. Everybody's known he is/was a womanizer, so it's probably already factored into the numbers.

But it cuts both ways - the sad truth is that nobody cares that Hillary is corrupt either.

So both of them probably missed the opportunity to answer this question from the voters: "What's in it for me?" You gotta tell people how their lives will be better if they vote for you. You have to be believable when you do so.

As I see it, this is the Trump election. Nobody is voting for Hillary. There are those who think Trump is a savior and those who think he's a loose cannon. So some people are voting for Trump and some people are voting against him by going with the sameoldsameold option. Which means if he could figure out how to be more credible, he could still win this thing, and bigly. (But I don't think he will, btw)
This space for rent.
twocupcakes
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10/10/2016 2:14:15 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

Trump used the debate to rally his base. Trump die-hards think "lock her up" is the perfect argument in any situation. However, I cannot imagine undecideds look favorably upon Trump after that. The email scandal is not new and already has been around. What people wonder is if Trump has the temperament to be President. Trump did not help his case with the comment.
v3nesl
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10/10/2016 2:20:07 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 1:51:28 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/10/2016 1:47:55 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Clinton attacked Trump for not having the Temperament to be President and that is was good that he was not in charge of the law. Trump proved Clinton's point with the comment that he would lock her up. Trump supporters will think Trump won any exchange when he says "lock her up", but this email scandal has already been a part of the news for a while. Everyone knows about it. What voters are wondering whether Trump has the temperament to be President.

That was, honestly, his worst moment. Yea, his base will eat it up, but that is not what he needs. He needed to move undecideds. You don't move them by threatening your opponent like a tin pot dictator....

Well, you might be right, but on the other hand, everybody knows that if Hillary were any normal person working for CIA or NSA or TSA or ATF or whatever, she'd already be in jail or hiding out in Russia with Snowden. So nobody likes the fact that even the FBI now makes political calculations, that this administration has poisoned everything in Washington. That comment was probably a winner, if it stood alone, but in retrospect you see it in terms of his pledge to appoint a special prosecutor.
This space for rent.
v3nesl
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10/10/2016 2:26:05 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 2:14:15 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

... What people wonder is if Trump has the temperament to be President. Trump did not help his case with the comment.

Well, I hate to tell the liberally minded, but we still live in a dangerous and competitive world. There are a lot of people out there who would like to put the US out of business, as it were. So yes, Trump's temperament is exactly what we need, truth be told. We are at that point in US history where Daddy walking in and breaking up the party is in everybody's best interests. We bloody well better start dealing with reality, and the hour is getting late.

But will "undecideds" see this? I don't know. We have a pretty clueless electorate.
This space for rent.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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10/10/2016 2:38:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 2:26:05 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:14:15 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

... What people wonder is if Trump has the temperament to be President. Trump did not help his case with the comment.

Well, I hate to tell the liberally minded, but we still live in a dangerous and competitive world. There are a lot of people out there who would like to put the US out of business, as it were. So yes, Trump's temperament is exactly what we need, truth be told. We are at that point in US history where Daddy walking in and breaking up the party is in everybody's best interests. We bloody well better start dealing with reality, and the hour is getting late.

But will "undecideds" see this? I don't know. We have a pretty clueless electorate.

I agree that there are people out there who would like to put the USA out of business. Russia is trying to do just that. They are hoping that they can put the USA out of business by getting Trump elected. The ignorant buffoonish man baby narcissistic snake oil salesman is not the guy you put in charge if you are trying to fix things.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/10/2016 2:39:09 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 2:26:05 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:14:15 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

... What people wonder is if Trump has the temperament to be President. Trump did not help his case with the comment.

Well, I hate to tell the liberally minded, but we still live in a dangerous and competitive world. There are a lot of people out there who would like to put the US out of business, as it were. So yes, Trump's temperament is exactly what we need, truth be told. We are at that point in US history where Daddy walking in and breaking up the party is in everybody's best interests. We bloody well better start dealing with reality, and the hour is getting late.

But will "undecideds" see this? I don't know. We have a pretty clueless electorate.

A man so insecure that he reacts as Trump does is not the kind of temperament you need for that scenario. It would be much too easy to manipulate him. He's not strong and intimidating, he's weak and easily goaded.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,463
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10/10/2016 3:23:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 2:39:09 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:26:05 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:14:15 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

... What people wonder is if Trump has the temperament to be President. Trump did not help his case with the comment.

Well, I hate to tell the liberally minded, but we still live in a dangerous and competitive world. There are a lot of people out there who would like to put the US out of business, as it were. So yes, Trump's temperament is exactly what we need, truth be told. We are at that point in US history where Daddy walking in and breaking up the party is in everybody's best interests. We bloody well better start dealing with reality, and the hour is getting late.

But will "undecideds" see this? I don't know. We have a pretty clueless electorate.

A man so insecure that he reacts as Trump does is not the kind of temperament you need for that scenario. It would be much too easy to manipulate him. He's not strong and intimidating, he's weak and easily goaded.

I'll take a long way 'round answering this: I was watching a pro soccer game the other day and a guy on my team was fouled, but the ref didn't call it. This guy turned round and immediately fouled the guy who had fouled him. The ref showed the yellow card for retaliation, as he should (two of those and you get ejected, in case you're not familiar with the game). So, is this player insecure? Does he have a temperament unsuited for soccer? Not at all. He just wants everybody to know that you can't foul him without some kind of payback. It gets in other players' heads, is the idea.

So, I assure you that Trump is not insecure. He's a big league player, and he's got his game face. So this is what I'm saying, analyzing people of his stature like it's junior high society, this is part of the problem we're facing in America today.
This space for rent.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 368
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10/10/2016 3:31:49 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 1:34:29 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

The Truth matters, and what you just said indicates that people like you don't fully seem to appreciate the reality in which you live.

For it to be a knock out punch, what he said can't just appeal to the people who already vehemently support him, no matter how petulent, undisciplined, disorganized, incoherent, and vacuous he comes across; but it must sway the people who don't already support him.

In this respect, a great number of people, including a great many republicans view Trump as an undisciplined petulent child; and who while they do not like Hilary they do not necessarily think she is the fountain of all evil. These, independents and women are the people trump needed to win over, for that, he needed to be coherent, measured and thoughtful. He really wasn't, and only serves to feed the same narrative that people against Trump already feel.

So no, while such a response makes you feel better, you need to appreciate and understand that there are a good majority of people who don't feel the same way; and in many cases quite the opposite.

Truth stopped mattering in this election a long time ago
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/10/2016 3:47:52 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 3:23:00 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:39:09 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:26:05 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/10/2016 2:14:15 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:43:24 PM, TeaPatriot wrote:
It was pretty ugly in the first part I do have to say, with the lewd comments scandal Trump is going through

But this was just a knock out punch

https://www.youtube.com...

Yet the most reliable polling data suggests people viewed Clinton as the winner. I'm a bit perplexed by Trump supporters' insistence that black is white. Although perhaps that is to be expected, when that's basically Trump's own approach to reality.

YouGov 47:42 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
https://today.yougov.com...

CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

But then, those same people are also the ones completely convinced that Trump will win on, as far as I can tell, no more solid a foundation than they really want him to. Despite all the evidence to the contrary:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...

... What people wonder is if Trump has the temperament to be President. Trump did not help his case with the comment.

Well, I hate to tell the liberally minded, but we still live in a dangerous and competitive world. There are a lot of people out there who would like to put the US out of business, as it were. So yes, Trump's temperament is exactly what we need, truth be told. We are at that point in US history where Daddy walking in and breaking up the party is in everybody's best interests. We bloody well better start dealing with reality, and the hour is getting late.

But will "undecideds" see this? I don't know. We have a pretty clueless electorate.

A man so insecure that he reacts as Trump does is not the kind of temperament you need for that scenario. It would be much too easy to manipulate him. He's not strong and intimidating, he's weak and easily goaded.

I'll take a long way 'round answering this: I was watching a pro soccer game the other day and a guy on my team was fouled, but the ref didn't call it. This guy turned round and immediately fouled the guy who had fouled him. The ref showed the yellow card for retaliation, as he should (two of those and you get ejected, in case you're not familiar with the game). So, is this player insecure? Does he have a temperament unsuited for soccer? Not at all. He just wants everybody to know that you can't foul him without some kind of payback. It gets in other players' heads, is the idea.

So, I assure you that Trump is not insecure. He's a big league player, and he's got his game face. So this is what I'm saying, analyzing people of his stature like it's junior high society, this is part of the problem we're facing in America today.

I'm British, so fairly familiar with it, yeah. The guy who got the card allowed himself to be goaded into acting. If he had acted such in a tournament, he could well have been facing a next-match ban for that card. A temperament like that is very easy to manipulate indeed; start the game with a 2nd-rate player you can afford to play without next game and send him in to try and get their feisty striker all angried-up to the point he gets himself carded.

I know that there's a section of American society that thinks the "don't tread on me", always-come-out-swinging approach works great. When you're dealing with international politics, it absolutely doesn't.

Trump cannot deal with criticism. At all. He gets angry, he gets personal and he gets out of control. He doesn't intimidate anyone. He doesn't broadcast "mess with me and you'll regret it". He broadcasts "wind me up and I'm putty in your hands". I love dealing with people like him because they do your work for you.

He has all the major markers for narcissistic personality disorder, which means he is literally pathologically incapable of dealing with criticism or dissent in a rational, constructive manner. Someone like Putin would run rings around him and you'll find yourselves living in the USSA. Which is exactly why the Russians are so keen to see him elected, of course.

It's depressing that there's anyone who can't see how obvious this all is.
v3nesl
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10/10/2016 5:27:13 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 3:47:52 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
...

I'm British, so fairly familiar with it, yeah. The guy who got the card allowed himself to be goaded into acting.

He wasn't goaded into action. You're missing the point: It was a deliberate act. You may disagree with the strategy, but it was clearly deliberate. Same with Trump.


I know that there's a section of American society that thinks the "don't tread on me", always-come-out-swinging approach works great. When you're dealing with international politics, it absolutely doesn't.


Really? You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the US, I don't think you're in a position to say how international security should be done. The pacifism of pre-war Europe was clearly a profound error. But again, that's really beside the point here: Trump is not being goaded into doing anything - it's deliberate. And you may well disagree with his strategy, but the point here is: Dismissing him because you think he can't control himself, that's badly mistaken. It's just silly, really. Juvenile.


He has all the major markers for narcissistic personality disorder, which means he is literally pathologically incapable of dealing with criticism or dissent in a rational, constructive manner.

Right, that's why he built a multi-billion dollar global business. lol. So ok, THIS is not going to be a rational exchange, I need to just let it go.
This space for rent.
Graincruncher
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10/10/2016 5:30:57 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 5:25:41 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Very nice. Yet Trumps polls continue to plummet across every credible pollster. What will you do on election day if, as seems incredibly likely, Trump loses by a large margin?
Graincruncher
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10/10/2016 5:41:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 5:27:13 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 10/10/2016 3:47:52 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
...

I'm British, so fairly familiar with it, yeah. The guy who got the card allowed himself to be goaded into acting.

He wasn't goaded into action. You're missing the point: It was a deliberate act. You may disagree with the strategy, but it was clearly deliberate. Same with Trump.


I know that there's a section of American society that thinks the "don't tread on me", always-come-out-swinging approach works great. When you're dealing with international politics, it absolutely doesn't.


Really? You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the US, I don't think you're in a position to say how international security should be done. The pacifism of pre-war Europe was clearly a profound error.

Spoken like the truly ignorant; the heavy, punitive reparations were the error. And if it weren't for the French, you'd still be British. People in glass houses...

But again, that's really beside the point here: Trump is not being goaded into doing anything - it's deliberate. And you may well disagree with his strategy, but the point here is: Dismissing him because you think he can't control himself, that's badly mistaken. It's just silly, really. Juvenile.

He deliberately has tantrums on Twitter that actively hurt his campaign? His intent is to look like a histrionic, rambling infant? Then I correct myself: he isn't insecure, he's really, really stupid.


He has all the major markers for narcissistic personality disorder, which means he is literally pathologically incapable of dealing with criticism or dissent in a rational, constructive manner.

Right, that's why he built a multi-billion dollar global business. lol. So ok, THIS is not going to be a rational exchange, I need to just let it go.

Narcissism has a proven positive correlation with upper levels of business activity. Particularly when combined with ASPD, which he also has many traits of. Plus, you know, he got a lot of help from daddy and lost A BILLION DOLLARS in one year. So let's not pretend he's Bill Gates, because he's quite clearly not.

Strange that you can't stay rational about him, though. Do you have a crush?
vortex86
Posts: 559
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10/10/2016 5:53:19 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/10/2016 5:30:57 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/10/2016 5:25:41 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 10/10/2016 12:52:17 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
CNN 57:34 Clinton victory after 2nd debate:
http://edition.cnn.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Very nice. Yet Trumps polls continue to plummet across every credible pollster. What will you do on election day if, as seems incredibly likely, Trump loses by a large margin?

I'm not concerned with election day. I'm concerned with the post debate polling and the source you chose as evidence to support your opinion. I think it's obvious that Trump won and I can say that as someone that said Clinton won the first debate handily.