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Russians denied access to US Polling Places

bsh1
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10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Please read the following:

"Oklahoma and at least two other states said Friday that they have denied efforts by Russian officials to be present at polling stations during the election, requests the U.S. State Department's spokesman dismissed as 'nothing more than a PR stunt.'" [https://www.yahoo.com...]

This is deeply disturbing. It is possible that Russia would seek to undermine US safety and power by creating election chaos, and that these activities are the beginnings of a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of our government. Cyberattacks and interference in our election process could call into question the validity of any election result--whether now or in the future--and thus undermine the mandate of whoever is declared the winner. It may not even be clear who won, forcing election re-runs or sparking violent protests. Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?
Live Long and Prosper

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Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/22/2016 1:00:20 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Please read the following:

"Oklahoma and at least two other states said Friday that they have denied efforts by Russian officials to be present at polling stations during the election, requests the U.S. State Department's spokesman dismissed as 'nothing more than a PR stunt.'" [https://www.yahoo.com...]

This is deeply disturbing. It is possible that Russia would seek to undermine US safety and power by creating election chaos, and that these activities are the beginnings of a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of our government. Cyberattacks and interference in our election process could call into question the validity of any election result--whether now or in the future--and thus undermine the mandate of whoever is declared the winner. It may not even be clear who won, forcing election re-runs or sparking violent protests. Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Yes you are over reacting.
Scruggs
Posts: 68
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10/22/2016 1:15:33 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Please read the following:

"Oklahoma and at least two other states said Friday that they have denied efforts by Russian officials to be present at polling stations during the election, requests the U.S. State Department's spokesman dismissed as 'nothing more than a PR stunt.'" [https://www.yahoo.com...]

This is deeply disturbing. It is possible that Russia would seek to undermine US safety and power by creating election chaos, and that these activities are the beginnings of a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of our government. Cyberattacks and interference in our election process could call into question the validity of any election result--whether now or in the future--and thus undermine the mandate of whoever is declared the winner. It may not even be clear who won, forcing election re-runs or sparking violent protests. Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?
I agree, we would not want the Russian help to "undermine the legitimacy of our government." Our government does that well enough on their own.
"If a man does not put himself in the attitude of a sinner, his prayer will not be heard before God." A brother asked him, "what is a sinful soul?" And St. Abba Moses replied, "Everyone who bears his own sins, and does not consider those of his companion."
bsh1
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10/22/2016 1:25:48 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:00:20 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
Yes you are over reacting.

What part of this is not plausible to you?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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PetersSmith
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10/22/2016 1:26:57 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Please read the following:

"Oklahoma and at least two other states said Friday that they have denied efforts by Russian officials to be present at polling stations during the election, requests the U.S. State Department's spokesman dismissed as 'nothing more than a PR stunt.'" [https://www.yahoo.com...]

This is deeply disturbing. It is possible that Russia would seek to undermine US safety and power by creating election chaos, and that these activities are the beginnings of a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of our government. Cyberattacks and interference in our election process could call into question the validity of any election result--whether now or in the future--and thus undermine the mandate of whoever is declared the winner. It may not even be clear who won, forcing election re-runs or sparking violent protests. Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Why would we EVER allow a foreign power to monitor our elections?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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bsh1
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10/22/2016 1:28:26 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Russia has hacked our elections databases in several states. Russia has hacked one of the major political parties in the US. Russia has repeatedly engaged in cyberwarfare against the US recently, and is escalating its pattern of aggressive behavior towards the US and its allies.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bsh1
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10/22/2016 1:30:38 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:26:57 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Why would we EVER allow a foreign power to monitor our elections?

Sometimes we do allow countries to monitor our elections so that their officials can learn how to administer elections properly (this is particularly true for new democracies). Sometimes we allow international observer missions because we want to observe other countries elections (particularly countries we want to help democratize) and it can be difficult to get them to accept our observers if we won't accept theirs.

But, keep in mind, these decisions are up to the states to make, and some states may not permit foreign observation.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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PetersSmith
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10/22/2016 1:31:45 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:30:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:26:57 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Why would we EVER allow a foreign power to monitor our elections?

Sometimes we do allow countries to monitor our elections so that their officials can learn how to administer elections properly (this is particularly true for new democracies). Sometimes we allow international observer missions because we want to observe other countries elections (particularly countries we want to help democratize) and it can be difficult to get them to accept our observers if we won't accept theirs.

But, keep in mind, these decisions are up to the states to make, and some states may not permit foreign observation.

"Study the 'US experience in organization of voting process.'" Yeah, nothing suspicious about that.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
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10/22/2016 1:33:34 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
"Arizona, Illinois and both the Democratic and Republican parties, as well as the DNC, have been the victims of either attempted or successful cyberattacks that FBI agents with expertise in Russian government hacking are investigating."

[https://www.washingtonpost.com...]

"Since the rise of Putin in 1999"2000, Russia"s intervention in Ukrainian elections has grown, culminating in its blatant interference in the 2004 Ukrainian elections to support Yushchenko"s main opponent, Yanukovych."

[https://www2.gwu.edu...]
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/22/2016 1:33:52 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:31:45 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:30:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/22/2016 1:26:57 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Why would we EVER allow a foreign power to monitor our elections?

Sometimes we do allow countries to monitor our elections so that their officials can learn how to administer elections properly (this is particularly true for new democracies). Sometimes we allow international observer missions because we want to observe other countries elections (particularly countries we want to help democratize) and it can be difficult to get them to accept our observers if we won't accept theirs.

But, keep in mind, these decisions are up to the states to make, and some states may not permit foreign observation.

"Study the 'US experience in organization of voting process.'" Yeah, nothing suspicious about that.

Lol.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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10/22/2016 1:38:48 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
There was a DDOS attack on a major US internet infrastructure company today, which compromised the internet around the United States and around the world. Though it was primarily concentrated on the United States, the attack suggests the tremendous vulnerability of our electronic infrastructure.

Preliminary reports have provided wholly unsatisfying explanations for all the questions that matter. For example, we still do not know who performed the attack, what country the attack originated from, or why. However, my main question is whether the DDOS attack was on the company which hosts US elections. And, if so, whether the attack came from Central or Eastern Europe.

One thing to very much keep in mind is that while right now we do not have conclusive evidence of Russian involvement, that attack may have been a test run for a Russian government cyberattack, likely contemporaneous with the elections. So, this could just be the start. I'm not saying that it is, but I'm saying that those are questions that we need to find answers too.

I furthermore would add that there is substantial, mounting, and increasing evidence of Russian efforts to unduly influence the election in myriad ways. This is the first instance of such foreign interference with a domestic political process, but that interference is real and it must be addressed with all the force that the NSA and CIA have at their disposal. These are times when those apparatuses of American governmental power are most needed, to identify and neutralize the source as well as to inoculate that and all other companies from similar attacks in the future.

On a peripheral note, the Trump campaign's outright welcoming the Russian government to interfere with US elections, to hack his political opponents, and the like, represents a terribly dangerous precedent for the future of our Democracy. Most people lack the technical sophistication to appreciate the danger of what Trump was suggesting, the threat of Russian manipulation (especially of electronic vote counters) or tampering with physical things in the election's course. That fact suggests that most will similarly fail to appreciate the scope and extent of the risk presented by such Russian nefariousness.

All of these factors are matters of great concern, and forebode real trouble in November. I hope that we are able to prevent that from unfolding, though at this point it would be patently unreasonable to assume that the Russians have no intention to manipulate American elections.
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Greyparrot
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10/22/2016 1:46:05 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Please read the following:

"Oklahoma and at least two other states said Friday that they have denied efforts by Russian officials to be present at polling stations during the election, requests the U.S. State Department's spokesman dismissed as 'nothing more than a PR stunt.'" [https://www.yahoo.com...]

This is deeply disturbing. It is possible that Russia would seek to undermine US safety and power by creating election chaos, and that these activities are the beginnings of a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of our government. Cyberattacks and interference in our election process could call into question the validity of any election result--whether now or in the future--and thus undermine the mandate of whoever is declared the winner. It may not even be clear who won, forcing election re-runs or sparking violent protests. Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Payback Bisch!
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,641
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10/22/2016 1:46:54 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I think Putin is feeling some sort of nostalgia for the legacy that the Soviet Union left. Russia went from a great superpower to the laughing stock of the west. As a result, he's probably going to do these stupid things to extend Russia's power and influence.
Greyparrot
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10/22/2016 2:01:14 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:38:48 AM, YYW wrote:
There was a DDOS attack on a major US internet infrastructure company today, which compromised the internet around the United States and around the world. Though it was primarily concentrated on the United States, the attack suggests the tremendous vulnerability of our electronic infrastructure.

Preliminary reports have provided wholly unsatisfying explanations for all the questions that matter. For example, we still do not know who performed the attack, what country the attack originated from, or why. However, my main question is whether the DDOS attack was on the company which hosts US elections. And, if so, whether the attack came from Central or Eastern Europe.

One thing to very much keep in mind is that while right now we do not have conclusive evidence of Russian involvement, that attack may have been a test run for a Russian government cyberattack, likely contemporaneous with the elections. So, this could just be the start. I'm not saying that it is, but I'm saying that those are questions that we need to find answers too.

I furthermore would add that there is substantial, mounting, and increasing evidence of Russian efforts to unduly influence the election in myriad ways. This is the first instance of such foreign interference with a domestic political process, but that interference is real and it must be addressed with all the force that the NSA and CIA have at their disposal. These are times when those apparatuses of American governmental power are most needed, to identify and neutralize the source as well as to inoculate that and all other companies from similar attacks in the future.

On a peripheral note, the Trump campaign's outright welcoming the Russian government to interfere with US elections, to hack his political opponents, and the like, represents a terribly dangerous precedent for the future of our Democracy. Most people lack the technical sophistication to appreciate the danger of what Trump was suggesting, the threat of Russian manipulation (especially of electronic vote counters) or tampering with physical things in the election's course. That fact suggests that most will similarly fail to appreciate the scope and extent of the risk presented by such Russian nefariousness.

All of these factors are matters of great concern, and forebode real trouble in November. I hope that we are able to prevent that from unfolding, though at this point it would be patently unreasonable to assume that the Russians have no intention to manipulate American elections.

Good, it's about time America pays the inevitable consequences for meddling in the world affairs as the self-appointed WORLD POLICE.
1harderthanyouthink
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10/22/2016 4:56:23 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 1:28:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Russia has hacked our elections databases in several states. Russia has hacked one of the major political parties in the US. Russia has repeatedly engaged in cyberwarfare against the US recently, and is escalating its pattern of aggressive behavior towards the US and its allies.

*They probably hacked the GOP too, but are saving that dirt.
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xus00HAY
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10/22/2016 1:45:59 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
We Americans often criticize other countries for being fake democracies where the president is a dictator who won a rigged election.
Our elections have become a subject of jokes in Russia, ever since W won the 2000 election even though he got fewer votes than the other guy, and Michael Moore's film was shown on TV. ( "c'mon would the majority really vote for that idiot "). So we are not going to help them with anectdotes they can tell at parties.
NHN
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10/22/2016 1:51:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.
Every other nation-state in this world, whether closely allied Israel or fiercely antagonistic Iran, holds objectives which are incompatible to our interests. Every foreign delegation entails a potential security breach, especially when representing a power as unreliable as Russia.

But I do think that the states in question are throwing a hissy fit here. And it isn't unprecedented for Oklahoma. In 1994, the State House of Representatives passed a resolution to cease engagement with the United Nations or any world body -- and they even used the embarrassing "new world order" (!) meme in their legislative language.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?
Russia is making use of one of its more annoying propaganda tools -- WikiLeaks. It was not that long ago that President Obama, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence made clear that this organization and its hackers are mere fronts for Russian intelligence. The group alias "Fancy Bear" or APT 28 is GRU (military intelligence), while "Cozy Bear" or APT 29 is FSB (foreign surveillance). These two groups are directly tied to the DNC hack, which constitutes a direct attack on our nation's political process. (WikiLeaks ran out of money in 2009, which means it has been puppeteered from Moscow ever since.)

But what are we to make of this? On the immediate level, the United States and Russia share significant national security objectives which override the implications of this particular security breach. And it would be foolish for us to take any step toward disengagement with Russia because of these shenanigans. However, we should beef up cybersecurity, significantly reduce our exchanges with the Russian diplomatic corps (it's all FSB and GRU) and, besides pressing for harsher sanctions, permanently push Russia out of the G7, G20, and WTO respectively.
illegalcombat
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10/22/2016 1:56:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/22/2016 12:43:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Please read the following:

"Oklahoma and at least two other states said Friday that they have denied efforts by Russian officials to be present at polling stations during the election, requests the U.S. State Department's spokesman dismissed as 'nothing more than a PR stunt.'" [https://www.yahoo.com...]

This is deeply disturbing. It is possible that Russia would seek to undermine US safety and power by creating election chaos, and that these activities are the beginnings of a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of our government. Cyberattacks and interference in our election process could call into question the validity of any election result--whether now or in the future--and thus undermine the mandate of whoever is declared the winner. It may not even be clear who won, forcing election re-runs or sparking violent protests. Whoever says Russia does not pose a significant threat to our national security is deluding themselves.

Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

We need Putin to help stop Hillary stealing the election.

Trump/Putin 2016 !!!
Mikal
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10/22/2016 3:22:57 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
We don't need Russia to undermine the legitimacy of our own government, we do a damn good job at that by ourselves. We should elect bench to abolish it